False rape accusation...who would you believe?

py2006 · 28-07-2019 2:34pm

British woman who accused 12 Israeli teens of gang-raping her in Cyprus is ARRESTED for 'making false allegations' and ALL the men who were arrested over the 'attack' are released

Reviews and Books Galore · 28-07-2019 5:10pm

py2006 wrote: »

British woman who accused 12 Israeli teens of gang-raping her in Cyprus is ARRESTED for 'making false allegations' and ALL the men who were arrested over the 'attack' are released

I'm genuinely curious what accusations were made as it seems to be proven to be blatantly false.

I wonder is it that whole drinking equals rape thing?

iptba · 24-08-2019 3:48pm

Tamil Nadu: Wife faces jail for false Pocso case on husband
https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/city/chennai/wife-faces-jail-for-false-pocso-case-on-hubby/articleshow/70761907.cms

CHENNAI: A woman who had lodged a false complaint that her estranged husband was sexually assaulting their 11-year-old daughter now faces imprisonment and/or fine under the Protection of Children from Sexual Offences (Pocso) Act.
“This case should be a lesson for all those who attempt to misuse the provisions of the Pocso Act, just to satisfy their own selfish ends,” Justice N Anand Venkatesh of the Madras high court said on Tuesday, while quashing the criminal case against the husband, and recommending initiation of criminal proceedings against the wife under Section 22 of the Pocso Act. If convicted she could be jailed for up to six months and also made to pay a fine.

Noting that it is unfortunate that the woman had gone to the extent of casting aspersions against the man as if he had an ‘illicit relationship’ with his own daughter, the judge said: “This case has shocked the conscience of this court and it is unbelievable that the mother, just for the sake of taking custody of her child, can go to the extent of making such serious allegations against her husband.”
The judge then observed that there were instances when the attention of this court was drawn to similar such incidents, where false complaint were given as if the husband has committed an offence under Pocso Act against the daughter and it was informed to this court that such cheap tactics are adopted in family court cases, just to arm-twist the husband and make him fall in line.
“This court was not willing to believe that such instances can happen, but this case is an eye-opener for the court. This court was made aware the extent to which Pocso Act can be misused,” the judge said.

iptba · 24-08-2019 5:24pm

Oberlin College's 100% sexual assault conviction rate prompts lawsuit, due process concerns
https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2018/jan/4/oberlin-college-sex-assault-conviction-rate-100

Gael23 · 24-08-2019 10:03pm

Could the falsely accused man not press defamation/slander charges on the accuser?

iptba · 28-09-2019 6:19pm

(8 minutes)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QpgtwqzGVNc

Statistics quoted are from the US

LCTD · 01-10-2019 9:47am

One case which went to court and possibly shouldn't have was the Paddy Jackson & Stuart Olding one, I mean a woman who walked into the room during the act didn't think there was any danger yet it went to court with a media circus surrounding it. Sure I think they were stupid for what they did but did they deserve that... every woman I spoke to about the case was convinced they were guilty. V difficult for the lads to deal with the aftermath even if they were cleared and Diagio have just pulled out of sponsorship for Paddy's new team in England.

Padraig Mor · 01-10-2019 10:44am

LCTD wrote: »

One case which went to court and possibly shouldn't have was the Paddy Jackson & Stuart Olding one, I mean a woman who walked into the room during the act didn't think there was any danger yet it went to court with a media circus surrounding it. Sure I think they were stupid for what they did but did they deserve that... every woman I spoke to about the case was convinced they were guilty. V difficult for the lads to deal with the aftermath even if they were cleared and Diagio have just pulled out of sponsorship for Paddy's new team in England.

One thing that seems to have been forgotten about in the context of this case is the newspaper reports that claimed the prosecutor's office decided there was no grounds to bring a case - but did so anyway solely because the accused were well known rugby players and to avoid any accusations of sweeping it under the carpet.

Reviews and Books Galore · 01-10-2019 2:57pm

Padraig Mor wrote: »

One thing that seems to have been forgotten about in the context of this case is the newspaper reports that claimed the prosecutor's office decided there was no grounds to bring a case - but did so anyway solely because the accused were well known rugby players and to avoid any accusations of sweeping it under the carpet.

Yeah, there was a newspaper article that was saying 200 protestors protested something or other to do with them in September 5th.

I would personally go on the attack at this stage, but they may be worried about some whackos falsely accusing them to make a point. (It seems to have happened with the Brett Kauvanagh thing tbh. The lawyer even mentioned that they accused him so that he would not be able to target abortion if he became elected as senator. )

KrustyUCC · 01-10-2019 5:03pm

That was organised by Linda Hayden who is running for the Social Democrats next election
Ms Hayden wanted Paddy Whiskey to end their sponsorship of London Irish as well

According to Ms Hayden Ireland still has a rape culture
https://www.irishtimes.com/news/crim...tion-1.4033034

Supposedly she was drugged and raped almost 20 years ago even though she never reported it to gardaí then, or since, saying she refused to give her attackers “power over me”.
Supposedly men will get the benefit of the doubt, if they “come from good stock”.

LCTD · 01-10-2019 9:16pm

"One thing that seems to have been forgotten about in the context of this case is the newspaper reports that claimed the prosecutor's office decided there was no grounds to bring a case - but did so anyway solely because the accused were well known rugby players and to avoid any accusations of sweeping it under the carpet".

Didn't know that, what a waste of time & money no to mention putting the 2 lads through the mincer. These types of accusations happen to footballers all the time in England and are thrown out...

Padraig Mor · 01-10-2019 9:53pm

KrustyUCC wrote: »

That was organised by Linda Hayden who is running for the Social Democrats next election
Ms Hayden wanted Paddy Whiskey to end their sponsorship of London Irish as well

According to Ms Hayden Ireland still has a rape culture
https://www.irishtimes.com/news/crim...tion-1.4033034

Supposedly she was drugged and raped almost 20 years ago even though she never reported it to gardaí then, or since, saying she refused to give her attackers “power over me”.
Supposedly men will get the benefit of the doubt, if they “come from good stock”.

Must say your use of the word 'supposedly' is interesting. First thing I thought when I saw this lady's story is that, to my knowledge, there has never been a medically confirmed case of drug spiking in this country yet this aspect of her account has been accepted unquestioningly. Second was a continuation really - we have a completely unverifiable account of a serious assault that happened without witnesses 20 years ago yet it is been published throughout the land as hard fact. Now, I'm not saying Ms Hayden is lying or trying to boost her profile in advance of any election - I know nothing about her other than what I've heard in recent days - but to publish her account as gospel without even an 'allegedly' disclaimer is poor journalism as far as I'm concerned and I do wonder whether a candidate from the wrong side of the PC debate would be extended such leniency.

LCTD wrote: »

Didn't know that, what a waste of time & money no to mention putting the 2 lads through the mincer. These types of accusations happen to footballers all the time in England and are thrown out...

Which of course gives the lie to.......

men will get the benefit of the doubt, if they “come from good stock”.

Jackson and Olding were (and continue to be) put through the wringer seemingly precisely because they came from good stock.

Reviews and Books Galore · 02-10-2019 12:05pm

KrustyUCC wrote: »

That was organised by Linda Hayden who is running for the Social Democrats next election
Ms Hayden wanted Paddy Whiskey to end their sponsorship of London Irish as well

According to Ms Hayden Ireland still has a rape culture
https://www.irishtimes.com/news/crim...tion-1.4033034

Supposedly she was drugged and raped almost 20 years ago even though she never reported it to gardaí then, or since, saying she refused to give her attackers “power over me”.
Supposedly men will get the benefit of the doubt, if they “come from good stock”.

All of this is very convenient timing.

KrustyUCC · 02-10-2019 7:27pm

Padraig Mor wrote: »

Must say your use of the word 'supposedly' is interesting. First thing I thought when I saw this lady's story is that, to my knowledge, there has never been a medically confirmed case of drug spiking in this country yet this aspect of her account has been accepted unquestioningly. Second was a continuation really - we have a completely unverifiable account of a serious assault that happened without witnesses 20 years ago yet it is been published throughout the land as hard fact. Now, I'm not saying Ms Hayden is lying or trying to boost her profile in advance of any election - I know nothing about her other than what I've heard in recent days - but to publish her account as gospel without even an 'allegedly' disclaimer is poor journalism as far as I'm concerned and I do wonder whether a candidate from the wrong side of the PC debate would be extended such leniency.

Which of course gives the lie to.......

Jackson and Olding were (and continue to be) put through the wringer seemingly precisely because they came from good stock.

The supposedly came from me

Her account is being taken as fact and she's using it to gain a platform

She was on 96fm a few times before the Jackson protest down in Musgrave Park and she continued a protest even when Jackson wasn't playing in the game

LCTD · 02-10-2019 8:11pm

All this can't be good for young men's mental health... already they are being hit with an constant barrage of 'consent' in the media while having to put up with women wearing next to nothing in public... in Arab countries women are forced to cover themselves up and quite frankly I can see why given what's happening here. Women can't claim it's comfortable to wear such skimpy/tight clothes so why are they sexualising themselves, surely some of the responsibility lies with them... if you're looking for attention that much, prepare for some of it to be bad.

02-10-2019 8:15pm

LCTD wrote: »

All this can't be good for young men's mental health... already they are being hit with an constant barrage of 'consent' in the media while having to put up with women wearing next to nothing in public... in Arab countries women are forced to cover themselves up and quite frankly I can see why given what's happening here. Women can't claim it's comfortable to wear such skimpy/tight clothes so why are they sexualising themselves, surely some of the responsibility lies with them... if you're looking for attention that much, prepare for some of it to be bad.

Ahh the old victim blaming comes out........

One eyed Jack · 02-10-2019 8:34pm

LCTD wrote: »

All this can't be good for young men's mental health... already they are being hit with an constant barrage of 'consent' in the media while having to put up with women wearing next to nothing in public... in Arab countries women are forced to cover themselves up and quite frankly I can see why given what's happening here. Women can't claim it's comfortable to wear such skimpy/tight clothes so why are they sexualising themselves, surely some of the responsibility lies with them... if you're looking for attention that much, prepare for some of it to be bad.

Here’s a novel idea - how about the men you speak of taking responsibility for their own mental health instead of making excuses as though anyone else is responsible for their shìtty attitude towards other people.

If you’re truly concerned about young men’s mental health, you aren’t doing them any favours by making excuses and holding anyone else responsible for their shìtty attitudes and behaviour towards others. Nobody should have to be “prepared” to put up with that shìte.

Reviews and Books Galore · 02-10-2019 9:38pm

bubblypop wrote: »

Ahh the old victim blaming comes out........

Let's ignore the arab part of the comment :P

He never mentioned rape, and you can hardly call a man looking at a woman victimising? How do you think a group of girls would act if a man was wearing a shirt that showed of his abs, pecs and biceps, and pants that showed off his genitalia and buttocks? Perhaps with 'implants' or boxers that pushed everything up.

Now imagine a good looking Spanish man that's well muscled, and well hung, scowling, looking disgusted, or staring down any woman that glances at him. It truly gets absurd :P

Reviews and Books Galore · 02-10-2019 9:40pm

KrustyUCC wrote: »

The supposedly came from me

Her account is being taken as fact and she's using it to gain a platform

She was on 96fm a few times before the Jackson protest down in Musgrave Park and she continued a protest even when Jackson wasn't playing in the game

Imo, it's absurd that we are just treating it as fact especially as she is using it as a platform to change the education system and say that men should be thought about consent. .

KrustyUCC · 02-10-2019 9:58pm

I'm not saying that she is lying

However I agree with

Padraig Mor wrote: »

First thing I thought when I saw this lady's story is that, to my knowledge, there has never been a medically confirmed case of drug spiking in this country yet this aspect of her account has been accepted unquestioningly. Second was a continuation really - we have a completely unverifiable account of a serious assault that happened without witnesses 20 years ago yet it is been published throughout the land as hard fact. Now, I'm not saying Ms Hayden is lying or trying to boost her profile in advance of any election - I know nothing about her other than what I've heard in recent days - but to publish her account as gospel without even an 'allegedly' disclaimer is poor journalism as far as I'm concerned and I do wonder whether a candidate from the wrong side of the PC debate would be extended such leniency.

Her account is taken as being accurate and she is saying that she is a victim despite not telling the guards at any stage

She is being 100% believed by the media without question

Reviews and Books Galore · 02-10-2019 10:06pm

I guess there's no real proof one way or another, but I do have my own personal opinion based on a few of her word choices.

But, that doesn't really matter as it should be treated just like any kind of story online, and not another stick to beat our boys with.

iptba · 26-10-2019 9:38pm

Not a clear-cut case. Also, no individual was explicitly named. But I thought some might find it of interest.

Maine student wins court battle over 'rapist in school' note
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-50171701

She and two other girls were suspended for three days on 4 October after officials determined the behaviour constituted bullying.

The district's investigation revealed that one male student felt targeted by the notes and was ostracised by his peers, forcing him to miss classes.

In an interview with CBS, Aela said her note was never intended to single out anyone as a rapist, but was rather highlighting the issue of sexual assault.

I'm not sure how credible this is given the note said: "There's a rapist in the school and you know who it is."
---
If she believes a particular person is a rapist, she should report it to the police.

iptba · 08-11-2019 9:17pm

Law body seeks reform over consent claim in rape trials
Men should not be allowed defence they ‘honestly believed’ woman consented to sex

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/crime-and-law/law-body-seeks-reform-over-consent-claim-in-rape-trials-1.4076135

It also recommends restricting the range of circumstances a jury can consider when the defence of reasonable belief has been raised.

The only issues that should be considered are whether the man had a physical, mental or intellectual disability, or mental illness, which meant he lacked the capacity to understand whether the woman was consenting.

The commission recommended that the law should not be changed in regard to self-induced intoxication. An accused cannot claim they lacked the capacity to understand if the alleged victim was consenting because of self-induced intoxication.

Reviews and Books Galore · 09-11-2019 12:23am

iptba wrote: »

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/crime-and-law/law-body-seeks-reform-over-consent-claim-in-rape-trials-1.4076135

That's a worrying reform. What other defense is there but if the man thinks the woman consent?

99nsr125 · 09-11-2019 12:39am

LCTD wrote: »

All this can't be good for young men's mental health... already they are being hit with an constant barrage of 'consent' in the media while having to put up with women wearing next to nothing in public... in Arab countries women are forced to cover themselves up and quite frankly I can see why given what's happening here. Women can't claim it's comfortable to wear such skimpy/tight clothes so why are they sexualising themselves, surely some of the responsibility lies with them... if you're looking for attention that much, prepare for some of it to be bad.

Extend that to being naked then and reverse the roles

and if I've got a cops uniform on people won't react differently huh ?

joeguevara · 09-11-2019 3:12pm

Reviews and Books Galore wrote: »

That's a worrying reform. What other defense is there but if the man thinks the woman consent?

It's a very tricky one. But the objective test is more just. If the accused honestly believed that consent was present but a reasonable person wouldn't then that should be the test.

But in most cases it probably be shown that consent was present. It's only in cases where the belief was tainted that it will come in to play.

10-11-2019 7:29am

joeguevara wrote: »

It's a very tricky one. But the objective test is more just. If the accused honestly believed that consent was present but a reasonable person wouldn't then that should be the test.

But in most cases it probably be shown that consent was present. It's only in cases where the belief was tainted that it will come in to play.

I doubt that very much. Every change comes in as being reasonable and only to be used in certain situations... over time though, that restriction is expanded. It's a slippery slope and TBH it isn't needed. It's removing power from the courts to decide by implementing more rules. Wait for the next rule, and the next. Nope. I don't like it in the slightest.

Reviews and Books Galore · 10-11-2019 3:03pm

99nsr125 wrote: »

Extend that to being naked then and reverse the roles

and if I've got a cops uniform on people won't react differently huh ?

I'm kind of wondering what you mean and I'm kind of wondering about what the poster means? :P

On an unrelated note, a naked women is nice/sexual/so on so forth, but a clothed women is a bigger deal. You can go to a nude beach and see how it stops being a big deal.

But, when high heels put the feet into orgasim position and the butt at a heigtened elevation, a v neck creates a rolled back shoulder raised chest which has sexual conontations, and eye make up can have interesting effects on various levels, then you can hardly complain about men 'objectifying' when most outfits are in fact advertising sexual stimuli.

It's the same if a guy had a good bulge, tight shirt, showing a little bit of chest hair, or mascara to narrow the eyes to bedroom eyes.

Reviews and Books Galore · 10-11-2019 3:05pm

Deleted User wrote: »

I doubt that very much. Every change comes in as being reasonable and only to be used in certain situations... over time though, that restriction is expanded. It's a slippery slope and TBH it isn't needed. It's removing power from the courts to decide by implementing more rules. Wait for the next rule, and the next. Nope. I don't like it in the slightest.

Times are changing. This generation is raised on this thought and there will be a backlash like all other generations.

As a sidenote, I am curious why you are so into it? I don't think China has this weird men as dogs philophy?

10-11-2019 3:35pm

Reviews and Books Galore wrote: »

Times are changing. This generation is raised on this thought and there will be a backlash like all other generations.

As a sidenote, I am curious why you are so into it? I don't think China has this weird men as dogs philophy?

Why? Because I'm Irish, and I won't live in China much longer. I've been in Aisa almost 12 years now, and I'm fast reaching the end of my enjoyment for China. Amazingly interesting country but I'd rather not be here when the nationalism goes into full swing. I would like to live in Europe again, but the changes in law make it rather unappealing. I'm a white male, single and in my 40's. While I have no serious interest in marriage, I am active in dating.

The way Western society and the law is going, being a single male with an active healthy interest in women is becoming risky. While I've never had any problems with the women I've dated, there's no guarantee that will stay the same, considering the way things are going. The Metoo movement has a lot to answer for.

Reviews and Books Galore · 10-11-2019 4:17pm

Deleted User wrote: »

Why? Because I'm Irish, and I won't live in China much longer. I've been in Aisa almost 12 years now, and I'm fast reaching the end of my enjoyment for China. Amazingly interesting country but I'd rather not be here when the nationalism goes into full swing. I would like to live in Europe again, but the changes in law make it rather unappealing. I'm a white male, single and in my 40's. While I have no serious interest in marriage, I am active in dating.

The way Western society and the law is going, being a single male with an active healthy interest in women is becoming risky. While I've never had any problems with the women I've dated, there's no guarantee that will stay the same, considering the way things are going. The Metoo movement has a lot to answer for.

Eh, you'll be grand. Socially male sexuality is looked down on and that is annoying, but it really doesn't effect the older gentlemen that much. Once your over the age of thirty I don't think you'll be not quite as much regulated, and you will just have to watch your ps and qs at work and not use it as dating. Just keep your head down and don't get dragged into other people's issues.

On another note, in China you are the 'whore/foreign man', but at home you are the 'madonna/local man'. So, there will be more regulation at home vs abroad and I imagine the chinese men are also regulated in the same way the chinese women are regulated by the men. It's just the way humans are that they want a 'whore' and a 'madonna'.

There's also plenty of countries in Europe which find me too ridiculous. France, Italy, all of Central Europe outside of Germany, and other countries. Tbh, I don't really let this bull**** effect me outside of venting online. Just move on, realise everybody has their own issues and just live your life.

silverharp · 10-11-2019 6:13pm

i doubt you would need to write off a whole continent but if you are a guy on the up , not dating where you work might need to be one of your rules. in the US it seems like dating in college can be problematic unless you are careful.

i treat it like a joke at work, if certain lighthearted situations happen and one of the women at work try to get me to chip in, i just say "in the age of metoo I couldnt possibly comment", i normally get the "ah no we're cool! yada yada. i have never done closed door meetings with a female colleague though and i wouldnt travel with a female colleague now which i have done in the past , now its "Mike Pence" rule all the way

11-11-2019 12:42am

Reviews and Books Galore wrote: »

Eh, you'll be grand. Socially male sexuality is looked down on and that is annoying, but it really doesn't effect the older gentlemen that much. Once your over the age of thirty I don't think you'll be not quite as much regulated, and you will just have to watch your ps and qs at work and not use it as dating. Just keep your head down and don't get dragged into other people's issues.

I don't agree. I know two European males who were in their 30's falsely accused of raping women they went on dates with. They managed to be cleared of the charges but their lives were essentially ruined in the areas they lived in, and needed to move.

Things are changing far too much, for anyone to be comfortable.

On another note, in China you are the 'whore/foreign man', but at home you are the 'madonna/local man'. So, there will be more regulation at home vs abroad and I imagine the chinese men are also regulated in the same way the chinese women are regulated by the men. It's just the way humans are that they want a 'whore' and a 'madonna'.

huh? Chinese culture doesn't work that way for Chinese people nor is it applied equally to foreigners.

There's also plenty of countries in Europe which find me too ridiculous. France, Italy, all of Central Europe outside of Germany, and other countries. Tbh, I don't really let this bull**** effect me outside of venting online. Just move on, realise everybody has their own issues and just live your life.

Again, this craziness has moved beyond the internet and nutjobs. It's made it into the governments and legal circles. Pretending that it hasn't isn't going to improve anything. That's already been tried. That's how we've managed to get the current situation... repeating the belief that common sense will prevail. It hasn't

11-11-2019 12:44am

silverharp wrote: »

i doubt you would need to write off a whole continent but if you are a guy on the up , not dating where you work might need to be one of your rules. in the US it seems like dating in college can be problematic unless you are careful.

i treat it like a joke at work, if certain lighthearted situations happen and one of the women at work try to get me to chip in, i just say "in the age of metoo I couldnt possibly comment", i normally get the "ah no we're cool! yada yada. i have never done closed door meetings with a female colleague though and i wouldnt travel with a female colleague now which i have done in the past , now its "Mike Pence" rule all the way

Oh, I'm very careful about work... it's too easy to be hooked into something dodgy at third level. Nah. I'm more concerned about the dating circles than anything that might happen at work.

Reviews and Books Galore · 11-11-2019 1:08am

Deleted User wrote: »

Again, this craziness has moved beyond the internet and nutjobs. It's made it into the governments and legal circles. Pretending that it hasn't isn't going to improve anything. That's already been tried. That's how we've managed to get the current situation... repeating the belief that common sense will prevail. It hasn't

Wow, I'm a little bit shocked at the European dudes tbh. Any kind of article with the details?

11-11-2019 5:14am

Reviews and Books Galore wrote: »

Wow, I'm a little bit shocked at the European dudes tbh. Any kind of article with the details?

Article? Nope. These are two guys I know. But perhaps look at the Men's Rights thread or even scroll back on this thread. More than 'Plenty' of examples to choose from.

Reviews and Books Galore · 11-11-2019 12:19pm

silverharp wrote: »

i doubt you would need to write off a whole continent but if you are a guy on the up , not dating where you work might need to be one of your rules. in the US it seems like dating in college can be problematic unless you are careful.

i treat it like a joke at work, if certain lighthearted situations happen and one of the women at work try to get me to chip in, i just say "in the age of metoo I couldnt possibly comment", i normally get the "ah no we're cool! yada yada. i have never done closed door meetings with a female colleague though and i wouldnt travel with a female colleague now which i have done in the past , now its "Mike Pence" rule all the way

What a nice life we're giving young men. Having to behave like stoic husbands at the age of 18, while women can be wild and individualistic.

iptba · 23-11-2019 3:01am

(Australia)

We have had a huge victory. The Queensland Supreme Court has just determined that universities have no jurisdiction to adjudicate sexual assault.

Justice Ann Lyons ruled yesterday in a pivotal case involving a University of Queensland medical student who was accused of sexual assault by another student. Wendy Mulcahy, the lawyer for the accused student, took the matter to the Supreme Court arguing that UQ did not have the jurisdiction to adjudicate such matters.

In her landmark judgment, Justice Lyons concluded universities are only entitled to make decisions in sexual assault cases which have been proved in criminal court. The university’s role is then to decide on any further penalty could be imposed on someone found criminally guilty of such a crime – such as expelling him or her from the university.

Continues at:
https://www.spectator.com.au/2019/11/queensland-judge-cans-campus-sex-claims-kangaroo-courts/

Reviews and Books Galore · 23-11-2019 1:11pm

Yeah, the cyprus rape case is quite unnerving. Now there is literally an emmy award winning movie maker spinning the story.

https://cyprus-mail.com/2019/11/15/dissection-of-british-womans-retraction-at-core-of-napa-rape-case-hearing-on-friday/

Again, there is literally an online video showing the woman consenting to sex and even leaving. A lot of the people she accused were not even there or were with their girlfriends. IF such an open and shut case is getting so much spin and attention, how would a more difficult case fare?

I wonder is it the whole drunk cannot consent malarkey?

Edit:

From another article

The woman's family have set up a GoFundMe site to help pay the costs.

They yesterday revealed estimated costs for travel and legal help had jumped to £60,000, and have raised £42,000 already.

iptba · 14-12-2019 3:46pm

Michael Clifford: Diarmuid Higgins - Living under the shadow of allegation for 22 years

https://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/views/michael-clifford-diarmuid-higgins-living-under-the-shadow-of-allegation-for-22-years-970348.html

Reviews and Books Galore · 14-12-2019 7:26pm

Here's an article about the Cyprus rape case:

https://cyprus-mail.com/2019/12/12/conflicting-versions-in-closing-arguments-of-ayia-napa-rape-claim-case/

One important peice of information is that the accuser said the rape occured at 12:30 am, yet, the consensual sex video was filmed at 2:30 am(I guess by data or phone info?). Yes, it is possible that she was raped by people who were not there, and then had consensual sex with some of the people who she had accused...

Again, 50,000 euro in a gofundme, a huge amount of media support, for a case that will be a 1000 pound fine. Tbh, it's shocking how she has completly doubled down here.

iptba · 28-12-2019 9:58pm

TDs and Senators to be offered workshops on consent
Senator Lynn Ruane organising workshops to build understanding of ‘boundary-setting’
about 19 hours ago

TDs and Senators will be asked to attend workshops on consent and personal boundaries, which will include exercises on how to communicate with others about consent.

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/tds-and-senators-to-be-offered-workshops-on-consent-1.4125555

I recall people raising concerns about such workshops in the past. Once politicians get them lots of other people/groups may end up getting them also.

Reviews and Books Galore · 29-12-2019 2:35pm

iptba wrote: »

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/tds-and-senators-to-be-offered-workshops-on-consent-1.4125555

I recall people raising concerns about such workshops in the past. Once politicians get them lots of other people/groups may end up getting them also.

It's just legitimising false myths about rape such as drunk is rape or a lack of an explicit verbal yes to every act is rape, or other absurdities.

Yeah, the Brian Banks case is pretty rough to read imo. You can see that he could have been a great man imo.

johnnyskeleton · 29-12-2019 2:53pm

Reviews and Books Galore wrote: »

It's just legitimising false myths about rape such as drunk is rape or a lack of an explicit verbal yes to every act is rape, or other absurdities.

Im not sure those are myths. If someone is intoxicated to the extent that they cant consent then a sexual act performed on them is rape. That doesnt mean that anyone who has consumed any amount of alcool cant consent. It may be that sometimes these two very different things get conflated, but then its a question of the quality of the speakers giving the consent classes rather than the classes themselves.

Likewise there doesnt have to be verbal consent to every single thing, but I dont think thats the issue. The law is that someone who says "I assumed she was consenting" or "It seemed like she was" but wasnt entirely sure could have the necessary mental element of rape. So the teaching that a verbal consent is the ideal is a good bit of advice. Now, it can be taken to extremes - no one is saying a married couple need to say "darling, do you consent to a kiss and a cuddle" every night before they go to bed, but that is a scenario where its very obvious.

Ultimately, my concern is that voluntary consent classes are reaching the wrong people, mandatory consent classes make people resent them and become defiant to the teachings and that there is a perception of bias on the part of the instructor if it comes from e.g. someone from an NGO. But I dont think that they will always contain absurd inaccuracies, as you contend

Reviews and Books Galore · 29-12-2019 3:22pm

johnnyskeleton wrote: »

Im not sure those are myths. If someone is intoxicated to the extent that they cant consent then a sexual act performed on them is rape. That doesnt mean that anyone who has consumed any amount of alcool cant consent. It may be that sometimes these two very different things get conflated, but then its a question of the quality of the speakers giving the consent classes rather than the classes themselves.

Likewise there doesnt have to be verbal consent to every single thing, but I dont think thats the issue. The law is that someone who says "I assumed she was consenting" or "It seemed like she was" but wasnt entirely sure could have the necessary mental element of rape. So the teaching that a verbal consent is the ideal is a good bit of advice. Now, it can be taken to extremes - no one is saying a married couple need to say "darling, do you consent to a kiss and a cuddle" every night before they go to bed, but that is a scenario where its very obvious.

Ultimately, my concern is that voluntary consent classes are reaching the wrong people, mandatory consent classes make people resent them and become defiant to the teachings and that there is a perception of bias on the part of the instructor if it comes from e.g. someone from an NGO. But I dont think that they will always contain absurd inaccuracies, as you contend

True, if someone is unconcious than they cannot consent, but their is a big difference between being unconcious and drink making you consent to sex when you wouldn't have before. I am talking from the experience of a guy who had blackout drunk sex with women who were more sober than I was, and I never doubted that I consented.

I'm not going to talk about the mental element of rape as it seems a bit down a rabbit hole, but if it's seen as rape if there is no verbal consent, than pretty much any man can be falsely accused of rape. You know, I had verbal consent for kissing her neck, touching her hair, but I grabbed her hips wihtout consent and that means it is sexual assault/rape.

It sounds absurd to think of, but a lot of the metoo trials in America were actually based around these bizarre situations that I highlighted above, and I think you are giving too much credit to the people running this course.

And, as you can tell, I have had way too much coffee today :P

30-12-2019 12:40am

I think these consent classes and the ideas behind them ignore the human condition. That quite often people do things for illogical reasons. I know women who get drunk precisely because it gives them the chance not to consent... that way they can have a fling, or cheat on their boyfriend, but remain crystal clean within their own conscience.

I don't like the idea of consent classes because it gives credence to the idea that women don't need to be responsible for themselves. All the focus is on the male. We are all adults and responsible for our own safety. That means not getting drunk and placing ourselves in dubious situations. There needs to be more focus on responsible behavior and less of passing the buck.

iptba · 30-12-2019 4:24pm

Reviews and Books Galore wrote: »

Yeah, the cyprus rape case is quite unnerving. Now there is literally an emmy award winning movie maker spinning the story.

https://cyprus-mail.com/2019/11/15/dissection-of-british-womans-retraction-at-core-of-napa-rape-case-hearing-on-friday/

Again, there is literally an online video showing the woman consenting to sex and even leaving. A lot of the people she accused were not even there or were with their girlfriends. IF such an open and shut case is getting so much spin and attention, how would a more difficult case fare?

I wonder is it the whole drunk cannot consent malarkey?

Edit:

From another article

The woman's family have set up a GoFundMe site to help pay the costs.

They yesterday revealed estimated costs for travel and legal help had jumped to £60,000, and have raised £42,000 already.

Article on this in today's Irish Examiner:

The woman spent more than a month in prison before she was granted bail at the end of August and has not been allowed to leave the island.
She is still on bail and could face up to a year in jail and a 1,700 euro (£1,500) fine when she is sentenced.

British teenager guilty of lying over Cyprus gang-rape claim

https://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/world/british-teenager-guilty-of-lying-over-cyprus-gang-rape-claim-972782.html

Reviews and Books Galore · 30-12-2019 4:50pm

The articles I read are quite shocking tbh. I mean, there is evidence that it was a lie online and people are still saying that she was raped?

Pretty shocking stuff tbh to have all this malarkey for an obvious lie.

silverharp · 30-12-2019 6:08pm

why does she have anonymity?

Eric Cartman · 30-12-2019 6:58pm

Reviews and Books Galore wrote: »

The articles I read are quite shocking tbh. I mean, there is evidence that it was a lie online and people are still saying that she was raped?

Pretty shocking stuff tbh to have all this malarkey for an obvious lie.

the court of twitter opinion is crazy, have seen this on facebook a few times today and every woman throwing the kitchen sink at anyone not buying the "she was raped and it was all the entire justice systems fault that shes made out to be a liar" line.

False rape accusation...who would you believe?

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