Why is safe electric necesssary ?

aido79 wrote: »

[...]
I have no idea about the plumber installing wiring for a heating system but maybe someone else can provide information on whether or not they have to supply a certificate for the work they do.

The straight answer is no.

We are only allowed to go back as far as the fused spur. If there is no spur or it needs moving then legally we are not allowed to do that work.
My understanding is that we are expected to be able to competently understand and carry out heating control system wiring if we work on heating systems. I remember having to demonstrate that on some exam years ago, but I don't remember it coming up in my last 5 year review.
I know a lot of plumbers are not comfortable with wiring and won't touch it and leave it to electricians, but conversely I knew a few electricians who did not fully understand gas boiler heating controls either and phoned me for advice.
So, yes RGIs are allowed do it, but some do and some don't, but we don't certify it, why I don't know, but it is covered under our insurance.

maxamillius wrote: »

Two years (year 3 and 4) wiring motor control panels in FAS is too much in my opinion. Why focus on it when the electrical industry is so diverse? Yes domestic is only a small part, but testing and verification spans the entire industry so why put so much effort into motor control, which to be fair is only another small part.

ESB linesmen are a completely different kettle of fish and again would have no particular use for motor control.

Anyway my point is there should be more of a focus on testing and verification, there may be now but there wasn’t when I served my time.

When I was serving my time (nor now for that matter) I couldn't care less about domestic installations. The testing of same is completely irrelevant to anything I did during my apprenticeship or since. 95% of what I touch is less that 24v most of that less that 12v.

My apprenticeship is devalued enough without dumbing it down more and narrowing down to domestic installation and testing.

Back in the day I got into trouble with unions for suggesting a core training with specialist modules.

If you wanted to train and work purely on domestic installation then fine. You do the core modules, and then the necessary modules focused on that. Wouldn't take 4 years and you get excellent sparks at wiring houses.

Want to do something different then pick different modules and if later in your career you wanted you could do additional modules, 3 phase, voltage correction, DC Systems, Battery and off grid systems, motor control, PLC and Scada systems, Panel building, linesmen, high voltage, Intruder Alarm, structured cabling, Fire alarms, Atex, etc etc etc.

Currently we all do the same apprenticeship, get the same qualification and yet have very different jobs and careers.

The new apprenticeship was initially aimed to give a much broader training, at the time the FAS instructors unions refused to do the phase 2 theory so outside lecturers were brought in to do it. I know that of the first cohort of electrical apprentices to go through the new apprenticeship in Limerick over 90% failed phase 2 and had to repeat one or multiple modules. Largely, but not soley because of how apprentices were chosen. It was the first time apprentices were not chosen by FAS and hadn't gone through a central application process with aptitude testing and multiple round interviews.

Very quickly the unions, and industry pressure due to the building boom gutted what had the making of a truly world class training program.

Don't get me wrong, I have no issue with anyone who wants to wire houses, its a skilled role, pays well but its only one branch of the trade.

Many employers in my industry used to hire apprentices and put them through FAS but they stopped as the training now has little relevance. Now they hire graduates and people like me spend a few years bringing them up to speed. The IT's (or RTC's back in the day) used to be great for filling roles like these, good mix of practical and theory that but now they all want to be universities It kills me to see the career path turned into another "degree required" role that drives kids into the University treadmill..

knipex wrote: »

When I was serving my time (nor now for that matter) I couldn't care less about domestic installations. The testing of same is completely irrelevant to anything I did during my apprenticeship or since. 95% of what I touch is less that 24v most of that less that 12v.

My apprenticeship is devalued enough without dumbing it down more and narrowing down to domestic installation and testing.

Back in the day I got into trouble with unions for suggesting a core training with specialist modules.

If you wanted to train and work purely on domestic installation then fine. You do the core modules, and then the necessary modules focused on that. Wouldn't take 4 years and you get excellent sparks at wiring houses.

Want to do something different then pick different modules and if later in your career you wanted you could do additional modules, 3 phase, voltage correction, DC Systems, Battery and off grid systems, motor control, PLC and Scada systems, Panel building, linesmen, high voltage, Intruder Alarm, structured cabling, Fire alarms, Atex, etc etc etc.

Currently we all do the same apprenticeship, get the same qualification and yet have very different jobs and careers.

The new apprenticeship was initially aimed to give a much broader training, at the time the FAS instructors unions refused to do the phase 2 theory so outside lecturers were brought in to do it. I know that of the first cohort of electrical apprentices to go through the new apprenticeship in Limerick over 90% failed phase 2 and had to repeat one or multiple modules. Largely, but not soley because of how apprentices were chosen. It was the first time apprentices were not chosen by FAS and hadn't gone through a central application process with aptitude testing and multiple round interviews.

Very quickly the unions, and industry pressure due to the building boom gutted what had the making of a truly world class training program.

Don't get me wrong, I have no issue with anyone who wants to wire houses, its a skilled role, pays well but its only one branch of the trade.

Many employers in my industry used to hire apprentices and put them through FAS but they stopped as the training now has little relevance. Now they hire graduates and people like me spend a few years bringing them up to speed. The IT's (or RTC's back in the day) used to be great for filling roles like these, good mix of practical and theory that but now they all want to be universities It kills me to see the career path turned into another "degree required" role that drives kids into the University treadmill..

That’s a fair point, a module based apprenticeship where you get to choose your speciality might be the way forward.

Chavez. wrote:

The standards of apprentice and training was never great imo

That was more to do with the empowers and how they trained / utilised apprentices. Many spent 4 years bending conduit or first fixing semi-d's. I remember interviewing one newly qualified guy around 2006 / 2007 who had never in his entire apprenticeship outside of his block releases terminated a cable. I don't mean a SWA or pyro, I'm talking copper cable..

He spent his entire 4 years chasing walls, running cables or on tray, trunking and conduit..

Yet the employer signed off each and every one of this on the job training skills.