Witnessing a car incident

odyssey06 · 21-05-2019 10:12pm

GSOC discipline Garda for neglect of duty for failing to followup on report of rape.

https://www.msn.com/en-ie/news/newsireland/garda-did-not-investigate-rape-complaint-despite-being-reminded-15-times/ar-AABoOIa

Doesnt say anything about discretionary powers.

evolving_doors · 21-05-2019 10:22pm

Oldest trick in the book.

Lad who hit the car abandons it and goes home and reports the car stolen.

and there the story ends.

funkey_monkey · 21-05-2019 10:46pm

Muahahaha wrote: »

So went back to Pearse St station a few days later had to spend a good while slowly reading out the statement to the Garda as he wrote it down on official Garda notepaper.

WTF? What century are those boyos operating in? Can they not type it up and sign it (or even better an e-signature)?

Muahahaha · 21-05-2019 11:46pm

funkey_monkey wrote: »

WTF? What century are those boyos operating in? Can they not type it up and sign it (or even better an e-signature)?

I thought the same myself. I had thought by typing up the statement and printing it out and signing it would speed up things for both the Garda and for me. But he explained that if it ended up in court and my statement as evidence was not on official Garda notepaper then it could result in the case getting struck out. I guess it was a matter of the Garda has to literally witness your statement word for word and they can't accept typed statements, or at least that was the impression I was given.

Reading the entire statement out to him slowly to write down was excruciating. The Garda himself was sound out and very helpful but he wouldn't have won any spelling competitions in school. At one stage while slowly reading it out he stopped me and asked me to spell out the word 'consequently', I had to hold the laughter in. Later on in the review I spotted a couple of they're/there/their errors but at that stage I was in the room for almost an hour so no bloody way was I going to raise them, I just wanted to get out of there.

As said in a previous post things are not easy when you are trying to do the right thing. Gladly my situation worked out and the Garda cautioned the taxi driver who knocked over the cyclist. It turned out that the taxi driver reported himself a few hours after I did so he knew he was in the wrong. At least he had his card marked even if it did cause me a fair bit of hassle and wasted time.

Credit Checker Moose · 21-05-2019 11:59pm

I am sure solicitors fire in prepared statements for their clients all the time. I doubt some on is transcribing them by hand for the client to sign.

Claw Hammer · 22-05-2019 1:54pm

Credit Checker Moose wrote: »

I am sure solicitors fire in prepared statements for their clients all the time. I doubt some on is transcribing them by hand for the client to sign.

Why would solicitors be firing in or otherwise be submitting prepared statements for their clients?

Credit Checker Moose · 22-05-2019 2:00pm

Maybe their clients don't want to speak to the Gardaí directly?

Claw Hammer · 22-05-2019 2:39pm

Credit Checker Moose wrote: »

Maybe their clients don't want to speak to the Gardaí directly?

They don't speak at all or they go to the guards and are interviewed under caution. Prepared statements are never given to the guards by solicitors. There is absolutely no benefit to their client in doing so.

m5ex9oqjawdg2i · 22-05-2019 3:10pm

I was down â‚¬900 because some degenerate scumbag drove their heap into my parked car in a supermarket in Blackrock. Garda had the audacity to say he checked the cctv footage and didn't see anything. I didnt give him a time, or specific location of the car. Absolute liar.

Another time I witnessed a hit and run. Took down the reg and reported it to the Gardai. "It's a civil matter and we cant get involved. Another useless lazy so and so.

Go directly to the scumbags insurance, see how that goes

RobbieMD · 22-05-2019 3:32pm

Claw Hammer wrote: »

They don't speak at all or they go to the guards and are interviewed under caution. Prepared statements are never given to the guards by solicitors. There is absolutely no benefit to their client in doing so.

Prepared statements are used. The Garda puts the caution at the top and some other bits. Reads it over to them and they sign it in the Garda’s presence. Happens sometimes but not a lot.

GM228 · 25-05-2019 8:09pm

odyssey06 wrote: »

GSOC discipline Garda for neglect of duty for failing to followup on report of rape.

https://www.msn.com/en-ie/news/newsireland/garda-did-not-investigate-rape-complaint-despite-being-reminded-15-times/ar-AABoOIa

Doesnt say anything about discretionary powers.

There have been a few cases where the Garda Commissioner (not GSOC, but sometimes on their recommendation) has disciplined members for neglect of duty for using discretion, that does not mean the decision is correct, and to note - the GSOC report only gives a case summary so there may be other facts at play which we are not privy to.

The fact is (and which is in accordance with the law) a member of Gardaí can't be disciplined for neglect of duty when there is "good and sufficient cause" for that neglect of duty.

Basically that means when there is a reason which is legally sufficient they can't be disciplined. It is well settled that discretion is a legal privilege and power provided for under common law and protected by statute, therefore there is no question as to weather or not discretion is legally sufficient.

The problems with such disciplinary actions is that any decision to an appeal board (note not a Court) is legally binding.

A guard can only challenge such final decisions by way of a Judicial Review, and bringing a JR is neither easy nor cheap, there are very few such cases taken, however when they are taken in many instances the Guard has won, the most recent cases I can think of being the Garda McEnery vs Commissioner of AGS [2016] IESC 66 case, the point being reinforced is that disciplinary procedures are often wrong in law.

Duties of the Gardaí provided for under the Garda Siochana Act 2005 can not affect any power, immunity, privilege or duties the Gardaí have under the common law, that is a fact, and one which is provided for by an Act of the Oireachtas, this means that any duty conferred on the Gardaí by the Act does not override any power under common law, therefore their power of discretion is supreme of their duty to perform any particular duty, this was all well highlighted and documented by the various investigating authorities during the FCPN scandal.

The ability to discipline is subject to there being no good and sufficient cause, again a fact as provided for by an Act of the Oireachtas.

If such a disciplinary case found itself subject to a JR there is no question as to who would win, no executive authority can subject the Gardaí to a direction.

GM228 · 25-05-2019 8:14pm

RobbieMD wrote: »

Prepared statements are used. The Garda puts the caution at the top and some other bits. Reads it over to them and they sign it in the Garda’s presence. Happens sometimes but not a lot.

Indeed it is not common, in fact I would go so far as to say it is in fact very rare, where it does happen it is usually to set out a defence or alternatively to make a limited admission or exculpatory account, in such cases the solicitor will advise their client to answer no comment to any subsequent questions to maintain the integrity of the statement. There is a real danger that the Gardaí can introduce something to contradict the prepared statement, hence the reason you rarely see them.

Witnessing a car incident

Comments