Incident at P&E Boarding Kennels

LorelaiG · 26-04-2019 10:21am

Paityn Fluffy Plankton wrote: »

How do you propose they do that?

The dog is dead .

The post mortem was inconclusive yet he is being tarnished as the big bag man.

This dog that everyone is saying was cremated. We're is the evidence? Where is the link?

This thread and the unfounded accusations is a disgrace.

All we are short of is a lynch mob arriving at the kennels with flaming torches and a rope.

How do you ignore other cases of neglect being brought up by other people about this same kennel. This dog was in the kennels at the same time as Nova.

https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=2480487421971149&id=100000297475003

anewme · 26-04-2019 11:14am

LorelaiG wrote: »

How do you ignore other cases of neglect being brought up by other people about this same kennel. This dog was in the kennels at the same time as Nova.

https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=2480487421971149&id=100000297475003

He said there was only one other dog in at the same time as Nova.

But Nova's owner had 2 dogs in. Now this dog is three.

That looks like puncture bite marks on the dog in that link which I had commented on previously.

Again, no engagement with the owener.

If you look at Videos of P&E, there are large, sometimes aggressive breeds just running around willy nilly. Some wearing prong collars (which are not recommended due to their cruelty). It looks like a free for all.

Another discussion I have read relates to the sources of the rescue dogs and the lack of home checks, vacinations.

Animal brokering is an issue in this country.

There are a number of serious questions need to be asked of this facility and its ethos and standards.

There is absolutely no defence to the way Nova was presented to her owner and the lack of communication following the event. The photo was just horrible and would go straight to the heart of any dog owner.

....... · 26-04-2019 11:22am

anewme wrote: »

The photo was just horrible and would go straight to the heart of any dog owner decent person.

^^

anewme · 26-04-2019 11:27am

....... wrote: »

^^

I think thats the reason why the petition has gone viral -Ive seen articles in Newspapers in Mexico and the petition is heading towards 75,000 signatures.

Sheepdish1 · 26-04-2019 12:40pm

anewme wrote: »

He said there was only one other dog in at the same time as Nova.

But Nova's owner had 2 dogs in. Now this dog is three.

That looks like puncture bite marks on the dog in that link which I had commented on previously.

Again, no engagement with the owener.

If you look at Videos of P&E, there are large, sometimes aggressive breeds just running around willy nilly. Some wearing prong collars (which are not recommended due to their cruelty). It looks like a free for all.

Another discussion I have read relates to the sources of the rescue dogs and the lack of home checks, vacinations.

Animal brokering is an issue in this country.

There are a number of serious questions need to be asked of this facility and its ethos and standards.

There is absolutely no defence to the way Nova was presented to her owner and the lack of communication following the event. The photo was just horrible and would go straight to the heart of any dog owner.

Where can someobe view the videos you are describing with prong collars ?

Abba987 · 26-04-2019 12:45pm

Sheepdish1 wrote: »

Where can someobe view the videos you are describing with prong collars ?

They were on the p&e Facebook page but he has taken it down. Thousands of comments on each post.

D3V!L · 26-04-2019 1:14pm

This is not a "Facebook witch-hunt" , these are valid problems with this particular kennels.

On top of issue when my pup was there. When i went to collect him a young girl answered the door to the house and asked us which dog was ours. Didn't ask our names, his name etc. We could have picked a random breed and collected someone elses dog.

Sheepdish1 · 26-04-2019 2:06pm

D3V!L wrote: »

This is not a "Facebook witch-hunt" , these are valid problems with this particular kennels.

On top of issue when my pup was there. When i went to collect him a young girl answered the door to the house and asked us which dog was ours. Didn't ask our names, his name etc. We could have picked a random breed and collected someone elses dog.

I wonder was an inexperienced person that was left to speak with Nova's owner and look after Nova after he passed away? It sounds loose from what you have described above.

Animals do become ill and pass away and its very unfortunate when it happens under someone else's care but it seems like there was no protocol in place. One would think the first thing an owner would do would be to contact the owner or vet if a animal in their care passed away. Even leave a message to contact urgently so they are informed and prepared

If there was a log of times food/medication/ walks given to owner at least she could have taken comfort that he was given meds as required. I understand an animal needing to be sealed in plastic but it could have been done with some sensitivity and dignity for the animal and his owner. If the owner was informed correctly, and if Nova had been placed in a sealed bag with a little blanket over him it would have been more dignified. The poor owner, it is very traumatic when a pet passes away but the way this was dealt with was awful

sillysmiles · 26-04-2019 2:15pm

Above and beyond anything else, if your dog becomes unwell or gets injured in kennels - the onus is on the kennel staff to ring the owner and tell them.
If emergency care is required they deal with the emergency and then contact the owners.

Under no circumstances should any owner be coming back to collect a pet from kennels with no idea that anything has gone wrong.

....... · 26-04-2019 2:20pm

sillysmiles wrote: »

Above and beyond anything else, if your dog becomes unwell or gets injured in kennels - the onus is on the kennel staff to ring the owner and tell them.
If emergency care is required they deal with the emergency and then contact the owners.

Under no circumstances should any owner be coming back to collect a pet from kennels with no idea that anything has gone wrong.

Theres a nasty google review of this kennel from two months ago saying that a persons cat sitter quit mid job and the cat was placed there as nowhere else would take it at short notice. 5 days later they collected their cat, sick, no use of his back legs, covered in urine and the cat died after being brought to UCD with the Cullens claiming to know nothing about any issues.

So I believe there have been issues prior to this news story about the husky.

anewme · 26-04-2019 2:29pm

Nova was also brought to UCD so thats 2 cases they have had on this kennels since Christmas.

Bannasidhe · 26-04-2019 2:35pm

anewme wrote: »

The Revenue have also every right to analyse the books of P&E and the "rescue".

As of yesterday the "rescue" was appealing for donations on their FB page and no sign of a CHY (charity) number - that is a matter for the Charity Commissioners.
If they do have a CHY number they are obliged to display it - if they are not registered they shouldn't be asking for donations.

anewme · 26-04-2019 3:54pm

Bannasidhe wrote: »

As of yesterday the "rescue" was appealing for donations on their FB page and no sign of a CHY (charity) number - that is a matter for the Charity Commissioners.
If they do have a CHY number they are obliged to display it - if they are not registered they shouldn't be asking for donations.

I also noticed the donations were going straight into a named individuals account.

John Hutton · 26-04-2019 3:55pm

anewme wrote: »

I also noticed the donations were going straight into a named individuals account.

People should report him to revenue. It's easy to do.

D3V!L · 26-04-2019 4:01pm

Looks like their Facebook page is gone and the reviews on google are disturbing

Peterak · 26-04-2019 4:13pm

P&E put up a statement apologising obviously written by a solicitor not by Mr Cullen or member of their professional family
Wouldn't answer questions on live line even though he promised he would but knew he'd be questioned but their total lack of compassion to people is deplorable 55000 have made it clear of the pure disregard for all

Abba987 · 26-04-2019 4:21pm

Peterak wrote: »

P&E put up a statement apologising obviously written by a solicitor not by Mr Cullen or member of their professional family
Wouldn't answer questions on live line even though he promised he would but knew he'd be questioned but their total lack of compassion to people is deplorable 55000 have made it clear of the pure disregard for all

Wonder how long he'll leave it there.

John Hutton · 26-04-2019 4:23pm

On behalf of P&E Boarding Kennels, I wish to offer a sincere personal apology to Kirsten Kinch, the owner of Nova, for the grief she has experienced as a result of Nova's passing in our care. I also wish to apologise for the upset felt in the wider community.

We are a family who love animals and our aim is to take the greatest care of the pets entrusted to us by their owners, which we have being doing for the past 33 years.

In the unfortunate circumstances of Nova's passing, I sincerely believe we took every precaution that we felt necessary to protect all the pets in our care at the time, but now realise in doing so, we neglected to be sensitive and caring to Nova's owner, Kirsten. We are truly sorry for that and apologise for the grief we caused.

We are now doing everything in our power to make sure that this never happens again.

Sincerely
Paddy Cullen

The statement. What bull****.

D3V!L · 26-04-2019 4:26pm

John Hutton wrote: »

On behalf of P&E Boarding Kennels, I wish to offer a sincere personal apology to Kirsten Kinch, the owner of Nova, for the grief she has experienced as a result of Nova's passing in our care. I also wish to apologise for the upset felt in the wider community.

We are a family who love animals and our aim is to take the greatest care of the pets entrusted to us by their owners, which we have being doing for the past 33 years.

In the unfortunate circumstances of Nova's passing, I sincerely believe we took every precaution that we felt necessary to protect all the pets in our care at the time, but now realise in doing so, we neglected to be sensitive and caring to Nova's owner, Kirsten. We are truly sorry for that and apologise for the grief we caused.

We are now doing everything in our power to make sure that this never happens again.

Sincerely
Paddy Cullen

The statement. What bull****.

We'll do our best to never be caught again.

anewme · 26-04-2019 4:33pm

D3V!L wrote: »

We'll do our best to never be caught again.

With a bit of luck, they wont get the opportunity.

All rescue dogs to be removed as well.

Sheepdish1 · 26-04-2019 5:26pm

....... wrote: »

Theres a nasty google review of this kennel from two months ago saying that a persons cat sitter quit mid job and the cat was placed there as nowhere else would take it at short notice. 5 days later they collected their cat, sick, no use of his back legs, covered in urine and the cat died after being brought to UCD with the Cullens claiming to know nothing about any issues.

So I believe there have been issues prior to this news story about the husky.

I saw some of the google views, some reviews are good and some are very bad. Very conflicting aren't they?

Looking at the online gallery the cat kennels appear to be clear glass looking onto a what I am assuming is a very busy courtyard that is used for dogs from kennels, walking dogs, cars, vans etc. My cat is skittish and would be very stressed in that sort of set up but I would imagine a lot of cats would find it stressful. but I could be wrong. If they were overlooking a patch of grass, field, or carpark with a bit of distance that would be ok as cats like to be nosey but also feel safe at the same time. Mine sits on the window ledge most of the day but if a dog came too close she gets scared for example

There is only a couple of photos of the cattery but the cat's bed is on the floor, the carrier box and food bowels. I would think they would feel quite vulnerable with no access to ledges that are ''higher'' if there were dogs in the courtyard for example. Mine would be terrified I would think. I can't see where the litter tray is placed either. Cats become quite stressed if they don't have somewhere clean to use the toilet. I am not suggesting any of the above is done intentionally, they are just my observations from the photos I have seen on website

Abba987 · 26-04-2019 7:24pm

The stories just keep on coming. Jesus the poor animals. 2 people at least have previously reported this Scumbag to the guards.

His number is finally up. I hope he's left penniless

BBFAN · 26-04-2019 7:37pm

What I can't get over is the fact that the owner was given no prior warning.

At least if you knew the dog had passed away it wouldn't be so much of a shock, even though you would still feel horrified to find him rolled up in a ball.

Also, the fact that he has refused to engage with them since then has really dug his own grave. He obviously buried his head hoping they would go away. There would be no media storm if he had simply engaged with them before now.

John Hutton · 26-04-2019 8:08pm

BBFAN wrote: »

What I can't get over is the fact that the owner was given no prior warning.

At least if you knew the dog had passed away it wouldn't be so much of a shock, even though you would still feel horrified to find him rolled up in a ball.

Also, the fact that he has refused to engage with them since then has really dug his own grave. He obviously buried his head hoping they would go away. There would be no media storm if he had simply engaged with them before now.

In fairness to the lady concerned, she has been impeccable. She did not run to the media or make a big scene immediately. She waited four months, got an autopsy done, got all the facts and gave the kennels owner every chance. She has been far more dignified and restrained than I think I could have been.

holliehobbie · 29-04-2019 1:16am

<snip>

Mod note Please don't post stuff about this establishment or its owners unless it's in the public realm and readily available.

TheChizler · 29-04-2019 1:34am

holliehobbie wrote: »

...

Any link to that?

holliehobbie · 29-04-2019 1:39am

No and I wouldn't put it up if I did as I am hoping there will be a proper investigation into all this family's business dealings and the running of their businesses. But if you do a bit of searching you should be able to find it yourself.

DBB · 29-04-2019 6:58am

holliehobbie wrote: »

No and I wouldn't put it up if I did as I am hoping there will be a proper investigation into all this family's business dealings and the running of their businesses. But if you do a bit of searching you should be able to find it yourself.

With all due respect, by not posting any links, your post has had to be removed because it's moving into the realms of heresay, and as such is just the sort of thing that helps get cases thrown out in court.
I did a bit of searching and didn't find the info you posted about. If you pm the links to me or one of the other mods, we'll consider reinstating your post.
Thanks.
DBB

....... · 29-04-2019 9:20am

Sheepdish1 wrote: »

I saw some of the google views, some reviews are good and some are very bad. Very conflicting aren't they?

They are, and just to play devils advocate, you really dont know who is leaving either the good or the bad reviews. There could be paid reviews or family members leaving them or people out to get revenge etc...

However, its definitely a smoking gun when there are bad reviews and you can follow the name of the person through to a normal FB account that actually has old pics of their pet on FB.

raindog.promo · 19-05-2019 5:54pm

Daily Mail reports further on the situation:

https://evoke.ie/2019/05/18/news/irish-news/dog-owners-claims-dublin-kennel

anewme · 31-07-2019 11:36pm

Anyone who would leave their animal there needs their head examined.

ILoveYourVibes · 01-08-2019 11:17pm

anewme wrote: »

There are too many unregulated kennels and rescues in this Country. I was pleased to see another one called into question and disbanded recently over claims of inadequate governance and funds.

In my opinion they are all unregulated and any regulation is poor.

Regulations should come from somewhere like UCD veterinary hospital or something. And it should be species specific.

You should need several qualifications and experience or at least people on your staff with them etc. One permanent veterinary nurse someone with financial experience etc and perhaps a trainer with experience to head it up.

ILoveYourVibes · 01-08-2019 11:20pm

I am really sorry about your dog op. I don't know what to say.

ILoveYourVibes · 01-08-2019 11:30pm

....... wrote: »

They are, and just to play devils advocate, you really dont know who is leaving either the good or the bad reviews. There could be paid reviews or family members leaving them or people out to get revenge etc...

However, its definitely a smoking gun when there are bad reviews and you can follow the name of the person through to a normal FB account that actually has old pics of their pet on FB.

Exactly.

Cherry Blossom · 02-08-2019 6:16am

Guys, please stop with the speculation. Alie, unless you can prove your claims and accusations regarding planning permission, rescue practices etc. then your comments are defamatory and will need to be deleted shortly. Also as per the forum charter discussion of rescue practices is not permitted here.

Millem · 02-08-2019 7:30am

Investigations by the Planning Enforcement Section have revealed that the kennels have been operating at this location well in excess of seven years and would be statute barred from planning enforcement action,’ the council said.

I am on my phone so can’t post links but if you google “p and e improvement”. On May 1st he had an unannounced inspection and was issued with an improvement notice. No planning in place but there so long so nothing can be done.

ganmo · 02-08-2019 9:32am

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

In my opinion they are all unregulated and any regulation is poor.

Regulations should come from somewhere like UCD veterinary hospital or something. And it should be species specific.

You should need several qualifications and experience or at least people on your staff with them etc. One permanent veterinary nurse someone with financial experience etc and perhaps a trainer with experience to head it up.

the ucd vet hospital is just that, while input of animal welfare experts should be sought when writing regulations they should not be the ppl doing so. It would only lead to unworkable or conflicting with other regulations.

employing people with "several qualifications" to work in a kennel would push up the cost of kenneling further and possibly shut down several rescues.

ganmo · 02-08-2019 9:41am

Millem wrote: »

Investigations by the Planning Enforcement Section have revealed that the kennels have been operating at this location well in excess of seven years and would be statute barred from planning enforcement action,’ the council said.

I am on my phone so can’t post links but if you google “p and e improvement”. On May 1st he had an unannounced inspection and was issued with an improvement notice. No planning in place but there so long so nothing can be done.

https://www.teagasc.ie/media/website/rural-economy/farm-management/PlanningRequirementsforFarmBuildingDevelopment.pdf
the table at the bottom of that document outlines what you're allowed build without permission from an agri side.

it also includes this

Distance from any house (other than own), school, church, hospital or public building must be at least 100 metres unless consent is obtained in writing from the owner or occupier or person in charge.

ILoveYourVibes · 02-08-2019 9:45am

ganmo wrote: »

the ucd vet hospital is just that, while input of animal welfare experts should be sought when writing regulations they should not be the ppl doing so. It would only lead to unworkable or conflicting with other regulations.

The UCD vet hospital is not the driving force of Animal rights legislation in Ireland.

Nor do rescues answer to them. Imo it would be a good idea.

Smaller rescues are often sub par on an unacceptable level and totally unaware of it. Badly so.

ganmo · 02-08-2019 10:04am

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

The UCD vet hospital is not the driving force of Animal rights legislation in Ireland.

Nor do rescues answer to them. Imo it would be a good idea.

Smaller rescues are often sub par on an unacceptable level and totally unaware of it. Badly so.

animal rights demands often run opposite to good animal welfare

borderlinemeath · 02-08-2019 10:50am

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

The UCD vet hospital is not the driving force of Animal rights legislation in Ireland.

Nor do rescues answer to them. Imo it would be a good idea.

Smaller rescues are often sub par on an unacceptable level and totally unaware of it. Badly so.

Why would guidelines come from a teaching university veterinary department that deal with referral veterinary cases and emergency surgeries? It is absolutely not in their frame of expertise to advise on any kind of guideline for kennelling or rescues. Diagnoses of a particular disease or complex surgery does not equate to knowledge of rescue needs, or kennelling practices for the average healthy pet. Once a dog isn't sick the UCD veterinary dept is surplus to requirements.

The only body that advises on kennelling is the IBKCA, a self regulatory association. Rescues don't have any such protection but have you any proof that smaller rescues are "often sub par on an unacceptable level"?
In my anecdotal experience it's when rescues get bigger and more well known that things go downhill. Take that train wreck of a "rescue" in Kerry as an example. Buying thousands of followers on social media, fundraising off the scale with no accounting for where the money is being spent, and an "army" of bullies on social media that shut down any form of questioning of their dubious practices. Rescues go to hell, particularly when the person/persons running them either develop an inflated sense of ego or importance, or like in the case of P&E where it was seen as a source of income. I think what you might be trying to allude to is perhaps a person that rescues a few pets and then ends up in a "hoarding" situation where they don't know how detrimental their situation is. They aren't and never were rescues.

As Ganmo says, to employ a raft of qualified experts for every kennelling facility would ensure the cost would become exorbitant. Or you would have a small amount of facilities that cater for very large numbers so they could afford the qualified, well paid staff. That it turn makes it into a situation where each dog would get scant interaction with humans and be penned into their sanitised, solitary pens probably 24/7. Not the best environment for companion animals that need affection and interaction on a daily basis.

ILoveYourVibes · 02-08-2019 10:53am

ganmo wrote: »

animal rights demands often run opposite to good animal welfare

I don't think its intentional. The demand etc comes from the media and who has the biggest media platform isn't always the experts.

Its celebs in particular who are to blame for this.

They sucked in by certain animal rights groups.

Millem · 02-08-2019 11:15am

ganmo wrote: »

https://www.teagasc.ie/media/website/rural-economy/farm-management/PlanningRequirementsforFarmBuildingDevelopment.pdf
the table at the bottom of that document outlines what you're allowed build without permission from an agri side.

it also includes this

Do you not need permission to run a business?

ganmo · 02-08-2019 11:24am

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

I don't think its intentional. The demand etc comes from the media and who has the biggest media platform isn't always the experts.

Its celebs in particular who are to blame for this.

They sucked in by certain animal rights groups.

the confusion is intentional, created by animal rights organizations.
I have pulled up many journalists when they publish articles calling organisations like <snip> animal welfare groups.
anyway we're getting off topic

ganmo · 02-08-2019 11:28am

Millem wrote: »

Do you not need permission to run a business?

no you need permission to change the use of a building
lots of small businesses don't bother applying due to rates etc.

alie · 02-08-2019 3:20pm

Cherry Blossom wrote: »

Guys, please stop with the speculation. Alie, unless you can prove your claims and accusations regarding planning permission, rescue practices etc. then your comments are defamatory and will need to be deleted shortly. Also as per the forum charter discussion of rescue practices is not permitted here.

Maybe if more people spoke out , and kept it in the news , theses sort of businesses would not go un noticed as this one did. My comments are true . He has made my friends life a misery.

ILoveYourVibes · 02-08-2019 4:37pm

ganmo wrote: »

no you need permission to change the use of a building
lots of small businesses don't bother applying due to rates etc.

What types of permission do you need? Are they publicly listed as normal?

Sorry for your friend allie

ganmo · 02-08-2019 9:21pm

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

What types of permission do you need? Are they publicly listed as normal?

Sorry for your friend allie

Better to ask in the planning and construction forum

DBB · 03-08-2019 1:13am

alie wrote: »

Maybe if more people spoke out , and kept it in the news , theses sort of businesses would not go un noticed as this one did. My comments are true . He has made my friends life a misery.

Alie, if you're going to discuss such topics, you're going to need to provide bona fide links to published and verifiable media links... Whilst the sentiment of speaking out against injustice is laudable, I'm afraid you can't use boards.ie as your sounding board unless you can provide good links
Please bear in mind that you can't link to rescue pages.

ILoveYourVibes · 03-08-2019 3:08am

I think we might understand more if the mods simply said 'Look lads we don't want to get sued its on us if that happens'.

We get it. Don't worry we get it.

We don't want boards to get sued either. We understand we want to be helpful

We can stop talking about it on boards its on other pages now etc.

Its not boards taking sides its simply a fact the site could can be sued.

Incident at P&E Boarding Kennels

Comments