Deep Retrofit Pilot Programme

Evd-Burner · 15-05-2019 4:05pm

Buddy83 wrote: »

So we finally got our detailed costings for our planned deep retrofit project due to commence Jan 2020. Well shocking isnt the word.... i actually still dont have any words..... Figures are .. well again i have no words:

EWI 228 mt sq €37,500
Windows and Doors PVC Triple glazed €31,000
Wood burning Stove €3,500
Solar PV 1.5 - 2.0 kw PV €5,650
DCV €5,550
Attic Insulation 200 mt sq €6,680
Plumbing and Heating €25,150
*12 KW samsun Air source heat pump & controls
*Joule 200/60L pre plumber cylinder
* Low temp aliminium rads and piping etc

There are alot of other extras that continue to bump up the price including an additional 5% to cover cost of skips, health and safety, tool hire etc and another couple of k to make good plastering where affected...... and then of course none of these figures include the 13.5% VAT

Has anyone on here gone through this process with a provider they would reccommend? (PM please)

Feeling Disillusioned

That is absolutely disgusting! 37.5k for EWI?! It would probably be cheaper for you to have the work done by yourself without any grants!

Muahahaha · 15-05-2019 4:54pm

Evd-Burner wrote: »

That is absolutely disgusting! 37.5k for EWI?! It would probably be cheaper for you to have the work done by yourself without any grants!

Thats what stood out for me too. The EWI quote works out at €165 psqm and that is after a grant of €6000 so the full price is €43,000, i.e. they are charging a total of €188psqm. I got some quotes for EWI before and none of them were anywhere near €188psqm :eek:

31k for windows seems high too but how many sqm of windows and how many doors?

Anyway the quote above and some quotes Ive had before make me think some of these deep retrofit companies are swallowing up the grant and then making a pretty penny on top. I'd a quote before for €80,000 of works and when I asked what would be the payback period on energy savings they looked at me like I had two heads.

Buddy83 · 16-05-2019 2:50pm

Muahahaha wrote: »

Evd-Burner wrote: »

That is absolutely disgusting! 37.5k for EWI?! It would probably be cheaper for you to have the work done by yourself without any grants!

Thats what stood out for me too. The EWI quote works out at €165 psqm and that is after a grant of €6000 so the full price is €43,000, i.e. they are charging a total of €188psqm. I got some quotes for EWI before and none of them were anywhere near €188psqm :eek:

31k for windows seems high too but how many sqm of windows and how many doors?

Anyway the quote above and some quotes Ive had before make me think some of these deep retrofit companies are swallowing up the grant and then making a pretty penny on top. I'd a quote before for €80,000 of works and when I asked what would be the payback period on energy savings they looked at me like I had two heads.

In regards to the windows as a bit of a comparative i got an independent quote off a well known and reputable company for triple glazing aluclad and it came in at €32,000 so I have no clue where they are getting €31,000 for PVC from? And I agree the EWI quote is madness, you are right about some companies swallowing up the benefit of the grant.

Muahahaha · 16-05-2019 6:48pm

Buddy83 wrote: »

In regards to the windows as a bit of a comparative i got an independent quote off a well known and reputable company for triple glazing aluclad and it came in at €32,000 so I have no clue where they are getting €31,000 for PVC from? And I agree the EWI quote is madness, you are right about some companies swallowing up the benefit of the grant.

Definitely get a few more quotes for windows. Recently I've gotten quotes for new windows that had a 30% price differential. Upon research into the finer detail I realised both companies were using the exact same glazing product from a large supplier in the UK. The price differential just didnt add up for me, it would make you wary of getting ripped off on any big spend on a house tbh.

I know someone recently who spent €36k on windows and they didn't even ask for a discount. Couldn't believe they just stumped up that kind of money without even getting something off the figure, the salesman must of enjoyed a healthy commission on that one.

I wonder with the deep retrofit program do you have to buy all the bit and pieces from the company employed to do the works. It seems to me you could probably make decent savings by asking them for a list of products needed and then go source them yourself rather than them just paying suppliers whatever they ask and then putting a secret profit on top of it for themselves.

Muahahaha · 22-05-2019 1:33pm

Looks like there is a possibility that there might be changes coming in the administration of the deep retrofits, the Govt is considering adopting the Dutch model whereby you get the retrofit works done and pay the amount of via a low cost loan which is added to your electricity bills over 10-20 years.

HOMEOWNERS COULD END up paying for the retrofitting of their houses with a 10- or 20-year loan split across their energy bills. A proposed new government plan under consideration includes a pay-back system for the retrofitting of homes, modelled on a similar scheme in the Netherlands. The initiative is contained in Minister Richard Bruton’s Climate Action Plan, which is expected to be put before government in the next few weeks.

Also the article says

Average costs of a deep retrofit of a house prior to grant funding range from €20,000 and €40,000 if funded through the Sustainable Energy Authority of Ireland (SEAI).

https://www.thejournal.ie/energy-bills-climate-action-plan-4643312-May2019/

Anyone considering a retrofit should probably hold off for a bit to see if this new model comes into existence and if the T&Cs suit them.

steamboat · 28-05-2019 5:08pm

I'm 6 months pursuing the deep retrofit scheme for our 175m2 semi-d and finally got a quote from one provider. It isn't comprehensive as it has omitted floor insulation and pumping the cavity, but in any case it is still coming in higher than expected which has me questioning the value of the scheme in terms of the financial benefit given the delay/heartache in navigating through the process. Prices inclusive of fitting and VAT and all eligible for ~50% grant.

Roof Insulation (100m2 300mm Earthwool, Insulated Walkboard, Low Level-Slate Vents) €2,703.59
External Wall Insulation 184m2 €25,879.98
Windows and Doors (2 doors, 30m2 windows, PVC U-value < 1.2W/m2 K ) €19,574.21
Airtightness Upgrades (Sealants and tapes to floors/walls/ceilings) €5,236.04
DC Ventilation €4,687.83
Air source Heat Pump (11.2Kw), pipes, cylinder, controls €12,423.57
Radiators (incl. pipework) €10,665.69
Solar-PV €5,650.94
Scaffolding €2,860.20
Waste Disposal €995.96
Works Total (including VAT of €10,785.49) €90,678.01

Is this anywhere near reasonable? At least the EWI, Windows/Doors and Radiators figure seems high to me but I've nothing to compare against for the other measures.

tommyh1979 · 28-05-2019 6:17pm

They seem very high....did they guarantee they'd get your house to the A rating standard required so you'd actually get the grant....there is a chance they're taking into account people are getting these grants so that naturally leads to a price increase

Muahahaha · 28-05-2019 6:57pm

steamboat wrote: »

External Wall Insulation 184m2 €25,879.98

Is this price excluding the €6k grant for EWI? If so then it works out at €140 per sqm. Its not the lowest Ive seen but not the highest either. Once the grant has been deducted you're getting it for €108 per sqm which if done right I would have said is a good price.

I get what you're saying about the whole scheme though. The spirit of it is good but the operation of it seems to work out very very expensive. I wonder myself about this holy grail of chasing an A rated house and if it is worth it overall.

I suppose it is a matter of calculating your projected energy bills over the next 20-30 years and calculating the savings on them by getting it up to an A rating standard. It may not even be economical and maybe you would be better off
doing just some of the measures independently of a deep retrofit company to attain a B rating. You'll still save on energy, maybe not as much but it could be the cheaper way to go overall.

Another consideration is the lifecycle of all the new equipment. Heat pumps wont last forever, likewise with EWI. Its all very well a salesman saying that you will save X amount by installing a heat pump but you've got to factor in how many years the thing will last as well, could you get hit for another €10k bill 15 years down the line? Suddenly all those energy savings you made get quickly swallowed up with a hefty expense for a new heat pump

steamboat · 28-05-2019 9:19pm

tommyh1979 wrote: »

They seem very high....did they guarantee they'd get your house to the A rating standard required so you'd actually get the grant....there is a chance they're taking into account people are getting these grants so that naturally leads to a price increase

Yeah, I feel it is inflated as they know the grant will increase demand and they can get away with it. But apparently they don't take on jobs which wouldn't be reasonably feasible to achieve an A rating - all applications they have done to date (since last year) have been grant approved so it would be unlikely that the grant won't be offered if they take the work on.

Muahahaha wrote: »

Is this price excluding the €6k grant for EWI? If so then it works out at €140 per sqm. Its not the lowest Ive seen but not the highest either. Once the grant has been deducted you're getting it for €108 per sqm which if done right I would have said is a good price.

The cost after grant is good for sure - for EWI (and all other measures) it is a 50% grant, so the €25K comes down to €12.5K (€70 per sqm).

Muahahaha wrote: »

I get what you're saying about the whole scheme though. The spirit of it is good but the operation of it seems to work out very very expensive. I wonder myself about this holy grail of chasing an A rated house and if it is worth it overall.

I suppose it is a matter of calculating your projected energy bills over the next 20-30 years and calculating the savings on them by getting it up to an A rating standard. It may not even be economical and maybe you would be better off
doing just some of the measures independently of a deep retrofit company to attain a B rating. You'll still save on energy, maybe not as much but it could be the cheaper way to go overall.

Another consideration is the lifecycle of all the new equipment. Heat pumps wont last forever, likewise with EWI. Its all very well a salesman saying that you will save X amount by installing a heat pump but you've got to factor in how many years the thing will last as well, could you get hit for another €10k bill 15 years down the line? Suddenly all those energy savings you made get quickly swallowed up with a hefty expense for a new heat pump

Yes, very valid point. It's a massive upfront investment and the long term benefits and longevity are somewhat unproven. Still, if the operational side of the deep retrofit scheme was more efficient and the quotes were accurate to me it would be pretty much a no brainer.

Wartburg · 29-05-2019 1:06am

steamboat wrote: »

The cost after grant is good for sure - for EWI (and all other measures) it is a 50% grant, so the €25K comes down to €12.5K (€70 per sqm).

This deep retrofit scheme is driving me mad.
First of all there is a cap for every house regarding the grant. Have a look to the formal description, which says "up to 50%". The average grant per house is something in between 30k and 35k, which is still an awful amount of ad-hoc government funding. Please do not expect that they will pay you 45k, based on your quotation.
What I hate in general is the fact, that this scheme is forcing the inflation in the construction business. You should try to get another quote without mentioning that you´re aiming for the scheme. The lead time to go through the scheme and the amount of paperwork is massive, futhermore all these semi-state companies which guiding you through the scheme do not operate on the principle of mercy.
When I see your quoted price for air tightness and DCV, I could cry for the case thatt you´ll probably end in the average performance result (around 3 ACH @50Pa).
External wall insulation for around €140 per m² and extra scaffolding cost is thought-provoking for me too, especially by knowing the standard finishing quality for external wall insulation systems here in Ireland and that it goes to a semi D.
The most frustrating aspect is the missing monitoring of workmanship and installation details during the retrofit. Your performance values have been calculated on the drawing board, based on theoretical values, and I have serious doubts that they match the reality, once your project is finished.
And keep in mind that the scheme ends on the 31st of October annually. Only five months left for the complete process and approx. 6-8 weeks initial time for administration if you haven´t started the application process already.

UpTipp123 · 02-07-2019 11:52am

anyone heard anything from there proposal, send in the paperwork to my provider in April an still haven't heard back . Apparently SEAI have a backlog of proposals an dont have the resources to get thru them all, the October 31st date will now be pushed out.

Still unsure whether to go with this. approx 50k for insulation / new PVC windows/ A2W heat pump, underfloor heating. Just seems like i could get alot more done for 50k. Alot builders i speak to say its a money racket and the prices are jacked up as government funding it.

feedback welcome.

Buddy83 · 02-07-2019 1:43pm

UpTipp123 wrote: »

anyone heard anything from there proposal, send in the paperwork to my provider in April an still haven't heard back . Apparently SEAI have a backlog of proposals an dont have the resources to get thru them all, the October 31st date will now be pushed out.

Still unsure whether to go with this. approx 50k for insulation / new PVC windows/ A2W heat pump, underfloor heating. Just seems like i could get alot more done for 50k. Alot builders i speak to say its a money racket and the prices are jacked up as government funding it.

feedback welcome.

Hi, we finally found a provider with very decent costings. They submitted our application to the SEAI at the beginning of June, they contacted the SEAI for an update on the application and a rough timeline of when we could expect a decision 2 wks ago
. As you already mentioned they said they are inundated with applications are are just trying to get through them all. My service provider is ringing back for a further update this Friday, if we hear anything ill let you know. Do you know what date your provider actually sent in ur application? I mean you may have sent them your paperwork in April, but the provider would have been submitting a batch of houses together in 1 application it may have been a couple of weeks after that that they actually sent everything to the SEAI? Also my provider told us that if a proposed project is under €90,000 (exclusive of grant) those projects should hear back from SEAI in 1 month but if it's over 90k it takes the full 2 months.

In regards to actually going for the scheme it is a tough one. So much effort and time goes into just getting a provider and then actually getting on the scheme, it has made the process very disheartening. I was ready to give up to be honest but went one more time, found our current provider, got their costings back and then set about checking out the amounts, got independent quotes for some of the big ticket items like windows and EWI and as a result am very happy with the proposed project costs, when you take "up to" 50% off that it became a no brainer for us but it has been a long and exasperating process just to get to this point.

UpTipp123 · 02-07-2019 2:32pm

Buddy83 wrote: »

Hi, we finally found a provider with very decent costings. They submitted our application to the SEAI at the beginning of June, they contacted the SEAI for an update on the application and a rough timeline of when we could expect a decision 2 wks ago
. As you already mentioned they said they are inundated with applications are are just trying to get through them all. My service provider is ringing back for a further update this Friday, if we hear anything ill let you know. Do you know what date your provider actually sent in ur application? I mean you may have sent them your paperwork in April, but the provider would have been submitting a batch of houses together in 1 application it may have been a couple of weeks after that that they actually sent everything to the SEAI? Also my provider told us that if a proposed project is under €90,000 (exclusive of grant) those projects should hear back from SEAI in 1 month but if it's over 90k it takes the full 2 months.

In regards to actually going for the scheme it is a tough one. So much effort and time goes into just getting a provider and then actually getting on the scheme, it has made the process very disheartening. I was ready to give up to be honest but went one more time, found our current provider, got their costings back and then set about checking out the amounts, got independent quotes for some of the big ticket items like windows and EWI and as a result am very happy with the proposed project costs, when you take "up to" 50% off that it became a no brainer for us but it has been a long and exasperating process just to get to this point.

we submitted back to our provider on 5th April as we were the 5th house on that batch so it moved pretty quick but now and there still awaiting the SEAI to update them. i just wanna know if im guaranteed to get it so i will hold off on other builders willing to start. my works came in at 46k for me, which is 92k with 50% - IF - i get 50% grant. heading into its 4th month now.

Im hoping im close to a decision, but i then need to sit down with the builder an his QS to review final costings, but his orignaly costs said 46k is what i pay but when i added up all costs of each major works - it didnt add up, maybe a typo.

so once u get confirmation u will begin straight away? can builder start once u hear? are u doign any other work on site - extension etc?

Buddy83 · 02-07-2019 3:39pm

I think when works actually start completely depends on your provider/builder. In our case works should hopefully start 3-4 weeks after SEAI send letter of offer to us. And per the regs of the grant scheme all works for deep retro fit must be completed in 3 months (altho i gather contracters can apply for an extension in certain circumstances) We are getting a few walls knocked internally, a few new floors and a few walls replastered all at a 100% cost to us.

UpTipp123 · 02-07-2019 4:44pm

Buddy83 wrote: »

I think when works actually start completely depends on your provider/builder. In our case works should hopefully start 3-4 weeks after SEAI send letter of offer to us. And per the regs of the grant scheme all works for deep retro fit must be completed in 3 months (altho i gather contracters can apply for an extension in certain circumstances) We are getting a few walls knocked internally, a few new floors and a few walls replastered all at a 100% cost to us.

I am also hoping to knock a few walls etc as the extension thats there isnt great an needs to be redone. which is a cost on us. so im not sure if i will run with the retrofit due to the extension needing to be rebuilt which is a hefty cost in itself. i need to find out if the costs to renovate existing an the extension will be significant to just doing the retrofit. The waiting around is tough with no guarantee to get the grant.

Buddy83 · 04-07-2019 2:17pm

UpTipp123 wrote: »

I am also hoping to knock a few walls etc as the extension thats there isnt great an needs to be redone. which is a cost on us. so im not sure if i will run with the retrofit due to the extension needing to be rebuilt which is a hefty cost in itself. i need to find out if the costs to renovate existing an the extension will be significant to just doing the retrofit. The waiting around is tough with no guarantee to get the grant.

I may be reading your messages wrong but, do u not already know the cost for the total project? I mean you know the cost for the deep retro fit aspect as your application is gone in, I'm assuming same contractor is going to complete your extra works ( redoing extension) so have they not given you a price for that aspect? So you'd know prior to applying for the grant if you can afford the whole thing? If you haven't gotten a price off them I dont see any reason for you to have to wait til after the grant . U could ask them to come out and quote u for the extra work now?

Buddy83 · 17-07-2019 1:49pm

Things aren't looking certain for the scheme after 2019, I'm thinking potentially my application mite just miss out on this year's funding.

I have heard that SEAI have stated that it is a pilot scheme and will cease in 2019, with no indication what will be available in terms of funding for 2020.

No indication either on if or when SEAI will announce what form the grant will take next year.

In the recent climate action plan publication it only makes reference to increase BER to B2 and finance for retrofit. It outlines for proposal in Q3 of 2020 for a plan to be published, which i guess would suggest that there may not be an alternative scheme put in place until late 2020 or early 2021?

I'm off to look at the Better Energy Home Grant.

Muahahaha · 17-07-2019 4:56pm

Hard to know when an alternative will come along but the Govt was making noises a few weeks back about a total revamp along the lines of allowing householders cheap loans that would be spread across their energy bills over 10 or 15 years. Would likely take at least a year for them to set it up.

UpTipp123 · 01-08-2019 10:36am

Just had an update from my provider, still awaiting news from SEAI and if the government can fund it if it goes into 2020. another 2 weeks apparently. 6 months now im awaiting.

if i dont run with the grant, the other 4 houses will also lose out. which is crazy since im waiting around since march

im now in the process of getting full costs for extension an retrofit versus actually extension and renovation without the grant.

anyone else heard anything?

shadysheeps · 03-08-2019 6:34pm

Buddy83 wrote: »

Things aren't looking certain for the scheme after 2019, I'm thinking potentially my application mite just miss out on this year's funding.

I have heard that SEAI have stated that it is a pilot scheme and will cease in 2019, with no indication what will be available in terms of funding for 2020.

No indication either on if or when SEAI will announce what form the grant will take next year.

There's never been any mention of a 2020 programme so I reckon this year will be the last as they've likely got the info they wanted. It'd be too expensive for them to continue to fund.

UpTipp123 wrote: »

im now in the process of getting full costs for extension an retrofit versus actually extension and renovation without the grant.

anyone else heard anything?

We're doing a bigger renovation also. I'm expecting it to be a bit messy having both the service provider and builder trying to work together, biggest downfall IMO. Our cost is coming in over 60k which we consider good - especially when you consider windows are roughly 20k, EWI roughly 20k, heating roughly 15k (incl new cylinder, etc). For us we're also thinking long-term if we were ever to sell the house it would be a great selling point to have an A rated house. The builder that's doing our non-energy work reckons we're getting great value for the work being done - and he's a mate who does all the regular grants so I trust his judgement.

Buddy83 · 12-08-2019 2:24pm

UpTipp123 wrote: »

Just had an update from my provider, still awaiting news from SEAI and if the government can fund it if it goes into 2020. another 2 weeks apparently. 6 months now im awaiting.

if i dont run with the grant, the other 4 houses will also lose out. which is crazy since im waiting around since march

im now in the process of getting full costs for extension an retrofit versus actually extension and renovation without the grant.

anyone else heard anything?

Heard anything back from SEAI? We got a letter in the post from our provider which also had the most recent update email they had from SEAI, basically there may or may not be additional funding for 2019, tell all applicants to hand tight and adopt a wait and see approach.....

Buddy83 · 12-08-2019 2:24pm

UpTipp123 wrote: »

Just had an update from my provider, still awaiting news from SEAI and if the government can fund it if it goes into 2020. another 2 weeks apparently. 6 months now im awaiting.

if i dont run with the grant, the other 4 houses will also lose out. which is crazy since im waiting around since march

im now in the process of getting full costs for extension an retrofit versus actually extension and renovation without the grant.

anyone else heard anything?

Heard anything back from SEAI? We got a letter in the post from our provider which also had the most recent update email they had from SEAI, basically there may or may not be additional funding for 2019, tell all applicants to hand tight and adopt a wait and see approach.....

UpTipp123 · 13-08-2019 4:40pm

just got word there that they are not funding any more 2019 grants. what a waste of time. 6 months waiting an money invested for engineer an another for air test.

anyone know if we get this money back?

Buddy83 · 13-08-2019 5:14pm

UpTipp123 wrote: »

just got word there that they are not funding any more 2019 grants. what a waste of time. 6 months waiting an money invested for engineer an another for air test.

anyone know if we get this money back?

So frustrating, all this time trying to get on the scheme and getting an application in by deadline date only to be told no more funding. I'd guess they would be no hope at all of getting any cash back for BER or Air tightness tests done. So disappointing. Thanks for the update.

shadysheeps · 13-08-2019 8:31pm

This is ridiculous. We cannot and should not let this happen.

There's an article in the journal

taytobreath · 14-08-2019 10:53am

Seems to be a right fcuk up, the CEO of seai has resigned too. How could they not know that funds were running out well in advance of this last minute notice.

Muahahaha · 14-08-2019 1:36pm

Bit of a mess, those invested in the process have been let down.

Only silver lining is that there will be a new scheme on the way to replace it. Will probably take at least a year to implement though.

Muahahaha · 14-08-2019 5:37pm

The topic was discussed just there on Drive Time. They said the 2017 and 2018 schemes retrofitted 120 houses but this year they had over 300 applications and not enough funding for them all.

It seems that some people applied in Feb/March and were given assurances by their service provider that their house was suitable and that they qualified. SEAI made encouraging noises too but the rule is you are not permitted to start the work until you have an offical grant letter in hand. Problem with that was the T&Cs also said the works and a new BER must be complete by October 15th, if it wasnt then the grant wouldnt be paid. So some people went ahead beginning the work so they would have enough time to meet the deadline. But they didnt have grant approval in hand and one person on the radio has spent €40k to date and now the plug has been pulled. Another man spent 4 weeks stripping our his house back to a shell and now he has no grant and the house is inhabitable.

Aside from the above Alan Kelly TD was saying the department would have known they didnt have the funding for 300+ houses back in March but that they were still encouraging applications as late as July 10th where the CEO of SEAI told an Oireactas committee that the scheme was still open and funded. Kelly accused the SEAI hiding the truth for several months to get past the local elections.

Although this was just a pilot program it has turned into a bit of a mess with the T&Cs coercing people to start the work while the SEAI were dragging their feet on making a decision. Decisions were supposed to be 4-6 weeks but some were waiting 3-4 months for approval.

The scheme was only for a few hundred houses in total and its ended like this. It doesnt bode well for the governments stated plans to retrofit 500,000 houses by 2030, that sounds like pie in the sky stuff given whats just happened.

Wartburg · 14-08-2019 11:25pm

Muahahaha wrote: »

The topic was discussed just there on Drive Time. They said the 2017 and 2018 schemes retrofitted 120 houses but this year they had over 300 applications and not enough funding for them all.

This scheme was the biggest nonsense from the beginning. How can you offer up to 50% grant in a serious way??? The government had secured €5,000,000 for this year to run the scheme. If they had over 300 applications for the scheme this year, it means every house could have got a grant of around €15,000 in theory. That´s still a ridiculous amount of tax payers money for every single retrofit project, especially if you look at the results.
Would love to see a research in 5 years time about the performance of the participating buildings on that scheme, or might in 10 years time when all the external units of the A2W are wrecked.

UpTipp123 · 15-08-2019 11:54am

either way theirs alot of us out of pocket when we were told hang in there that the money is there etc. such spoof from service providers and SEAI.

never once were we told theirs a risk here - that the money is there its just a case of allocating to each project.

Biggest scam ive seen - be it from SEAI or government - there all accountable.

Buddy83 · 19-08-2019 2:03pm

UpTipp123 wrote: »

either way theirs alot of us out of pocket when we were told hang in there that the money is there etc. such spoof from service providers and SEAI.

never once were we told theirs a risk here - that the money is there its just a case of allocating to each project.

Biggest scam ive seen - be it from SEAI or government - there all accountable.

https://www.rte.ie/news/2019/0819/1069653-seai-grant/

For any of the 302 applications submitted prior to the July deadline, there appears to be some hope today!

Muahahaha · 20-08-2019 12:34pm

Yeah that is good news for those who applied but hadnt yet received the grant offer. Looks like the govt. were just trying to see what they could get away with and after the backlash decided to pony up. Bit of an own goal by Richard Bruton, all of this could have been avoided to begin with.

Interested Bystander · 21-08-2019 8:34am

Completely agree with you Muahahaha, I wouldn't be surprised either if the rate of application rejection takes a sharp rise

Interested Bystander · 21-08-2019 8:36am

Next question is will they carry over al the approved applications to 2020 or will they try to encourage the projects to be finished by end of 2019. As one of the applicants, i'm not sure which I would prefer...

Buddy83 · 26-08-2019 3:51pm

Interested Bystander wrote: »

Completely agree with you Muahahaha, I wouldn't be surprised either if the rate of application rejection takes a sharp rise

I'm hoping against what you mention in terms of application rejection Interested Bystander. Would I be right in saying that the basic criteria is a BER of C3 or worse, built prior to 2006 and 5 air changes per hour or less for the air heat pump to be viable? My service provider said we ticked all the boxes so theoretically just waiting to get the letter from SEAI. What I am worried about though is that the level of funding offered will take a nose dive. Again our service provider said since the launch of the scheme they have never seen an application get less that 40% with a large majority getting over 45%. Who knows what way they will fund the outstanding 302 applicants.

Interested Bystander · 27-08-2019 1:12pm

Buddy83 wrote: »

I'm hoping against what you mention in terms of application rejection Interested Bystander. Would I be right in saying that the basic criteria is a BER of C3 or worse, built prior to 2006 and 5 air changes per hour or less for the air heat pump to be viable? My service provider said we ticked all the boxes so theoretically just waiting to get the letter from SEAI. What I am worried about though is that the level of funding offered will take a nose dive. Again our service provider said since the launch of the scheme they have never seen an application get less that 40% with a large majority getting over 45%. Who knows what way they will fund the outstanding 302 applicants.

The levels of funding are uniform from the SEAI. According to a few of the contractors with access to the scheme that I've spoken to, if you have an application approved they usually fund up to 50% of the invoiced cost submitted including VAT if they had approved the full budget outlined by your contractor in your application. The final amount funded may come in closer to 45% overall but that variable is down to how much you are charged by your BER assessor and by your contractor for testing, compiling and submitting reports and the application etc. In other words their admin fees.
You should check as to what is covered as an eligible cost using the link below.

Re eligibility, all that detail is on the SEAI website here

But houses are only eligible for the scheme if the uplift in energy efficiency is >150kWh/m²/yr so any applicants with a BER of C3 would have to attain a new BER of A2 to be funded, (all other applicants need to attain a BER of A3)
And my understanding of the installation of air to water heat pumps is that you need a number of factors for it to work.
Air permeability in the gaff must be 5m³/h/m² @50 pa or lower with a heat loss factor of <2.0 W/m²K in the BER.
And your BER assessor won't entertain any installation job without the use of low temp rads running at a flow temp of anything higher than 45°C unless you are adding something else like PV panels to offset the higher use of energy.

Muahahaha · 27-08-2019 3:05pm

Interested Bystander wrote: »

Next question is will they carry over al the approved applications to 2020 or will they try to encourage the projects to be finished by end of 2019. As one of the applicants, i'm not sure which I would prefer...

From what Richard Bruton said it seems there are allowing applicants to push out their finish date beyond October 2019 and into 2020. The deadline itself seemed to be part of the problem as applicants were then placed in a rush to finish all works by October and have a BER Cert in hand to finally get the grant. Thus some started work before grant approval came through because if they didnt they wouldnt be able to make the October deadline and then the grant wouldnt be paid anyway.

Its probably going to be late 2020 at the earliest before there is a new scheme in place. They'll definitely need that time to fine tune it and iron out the problems seen above.

UpTipp123 · 03-09-2019 12:18pm

Just got and email there saying itll be end of October/start November before the letters are issued - this is some piss take.

Glad i have moved on without this ****e process. what a waste of waiting around for 6 months

CarPark2 · 08-10-2019 10:11pm

I don’t see anything about this in budget coverage today.
All I can find online is a pilot scheme focused on the midlands for 2020.
So is it a case that the only funding support for deep retrofit in 2020 will be for people in the midlands?

Muahahaha · 09-10-2019 2:22pm

The scheme was a pilot program for just a few hundred participants and is now closed. The Dept of the Environment are working on a new scheme for a larger audience but it will likely be the end of 2020 before we hear any details. I thought I heard something about Paschal o'Donohue allocating €300m towards it yesterday.

Aside from the deep retrofit scheme the normal grants for insulation, heat pumps, etc are still available.

Interested Bystander · 29-10-2020 12:52pm

As a participant in the scheme, i'd be interested to hear if anyone else still has any outstanding grant monies owed. We do.

Deep Retrofit Pilot Programme

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