Deep Retrofit Pilot Programme

S'

Hi all,

Has anyone here applied for the Deep Retrofit Pilot Programme for 2018?

I am finding it very difficult to get on the scheme.
Many of the contractors are based in the midlands and east of the country.

I've contacted a number of companies from the SEAI website but they don't seem to do work in the West (based in Mayo).
https://www.seai.ie/grants/home-grants/deep-retrofit-programme/

louiseseai

Hi S,

Some of the homes across the applications in the least 12 months have included homes in Mayo and other areas in the North West so it is worth contacting them all.

The market is still building to respond to the demand from homeowners and we are seeing it build so hopefully there is a service provider on the list who will be able to help you.

S'

louiseseai wrote: »

Hi S,

Some of the homes across the applications in the least 12 months have included homes in Mayo and other areas in the North West so it is worth contacting them all.

The market is still building to respond to the demand from homeowners and we are seeing it build so hopefully there is a service provider on the list who will be able to help you.

Thanks for your reply Louise.

A number of contractors have come back to me. They are not taking on any new applications for 2018.
Do you know when applications for 2019 start?

DOCARCH

Mod Note: @louiseseai In the interests of full disclosure, can you confirm if you are a staff member of SEAI?

louiseseai

Hi All - yes I work for SEAI.

louiseseai

@S The deadline for applications for receipt of applications for 2018 is 27th of July. We do accept and approve applications all year round but 2019 project works can't commence until January 2019.

gooner99

louiseseai wrote: »

@S The deadline for applications for receipt of applications for 2018 is 27th of July. We do accept and approve applications all year round but 2019 project works can't commence until January 2019.

Hi. Is this scheme available from January in Donegal?

alejandro1977

does anyone know if Oil Boilers can be retained (or upgraded rather) if solar water and wood stoves are being added? What about mains gas?

BryanF

alejandro1977 wrote: »

does anyone know if Oil Boilers can be retained (or upgraded rather) if solar water and wood stoves are being added? What about mains gas?

No
Heat pumps are the policy preferred

alejandro1977

thanks - generally speaking, can external insulation + new doors/windows (properly fitted) satisfy the air change targets? I would expect to use a DCV system - presumably this is acceptable rather than MHRV- are these taped over for the test or how does it work?

[justify]·        [font=Calibri, sans-serif]Dwellings for which funding is provided must achieve an air permeability of 5m³/h/m²@50 pa or lower;[/font][/justify]
[justify]·     [font=Calibri, sans-serif]Energy monitoring post-works, i.e. metering. Provision of bills will not be sufficient. Metering of the electricity consumption of the house as a whole and metering of the heat pump consumption, where a heat pump has been installed;[/font][/justify]
·         [font=Calibri, sans-serif]SEAI also require that mechanical ventilation systems are used to provide adequate and controllable ventilation in order to ensure good indoor air quality.[/font]

Alf Veedersane

alejandro1977 wrote: »

thanks - generally speaking, can external insulation + new doors/windows (properly fitted) satisfy the air change targets? I would expect to use a DCV system - presumably this is acceptable rather than MHRV- are these taped over for the test or how does it work?

It depends on what the leaks are and where they are. It's very possible that proper taping of doors and windows would get you below 5 in conjunction with external wall insulation but it's not a given.

It would need to be lower than 3 at least to warrant MVHR.

As far as I know, ducting is covered during the airtightness test. They're looking for 'uncontrolled' air leakage.

Mistymeg

gooner99 wrote: »

Hi. Is this scheme available from January in Donegal?

I've also been looking into this and am based in donegal. Are there any contractors taking on Donegal applications?

RoadRunner2000

Hello S,

I am investigating this at the moment. I am also very interested in the grant and want to apply for 2019 funding. The application requires 5 houses in the area.

Also, I am having the same problem trying to find a contractor. Let me know if you get any information and I will do the same!

Thanks,

T

gooner99

Seems to be limited. I had no luck finding anything so far in Donegal. Be interested to hear what plans are for expanding it in 2019.

RoadRunner2000

Lousia,

Can you assist in locating contractors in Galway who are able to do Deep Retrofit?

Thank you,

T

Jaymacc

Also interested in air to water deep retrofit. Anyone in Galway gone ahead with this? Would be keen to hear how if went and what the heat / bills are like post works. For those looking at Deep Retrofit in Donegal etc, Kingspan are doing them nationally but will only use their own products.

Johnnyq79

Anybody know, if you were to be building an extension also, could you get this grant too?

gooner99

Johnnyq79 wrote: »

Anybody know, if you were to be building an extension also, could you get this grant too?

I could be wrong, but I think it only covers the existing dwelling. You probably have to cover the extension yourself. Others may clarify.

jay0109

Has anyone on here been through this scheme? It would be interesting to hear their experiences, costs and how much they got back, before and after, etc

booooonzo

Did you watch eco eye on RTE the other day?

had 2 couples going through the scheme on it. was interesting

40/50k seems to be a more realistic price for detached homes. So 80/100k total for the deep retro fit works.
you would then want other works done I would imagine if you have floors up etc.. so it's not the cheapest thing to go through.

I am waiting on a price for our own house this week but don't expect it to be cheap. i'll let you know

jay0109

Will take a look back at that rte player. Thanks

Mistymeg

jay0109 wrote: »

Will take a look back at that rte player. Thanks

I’m donegal based and eventually managed to get in touch with a contractor through Kingspan. He tells me it will be this time next year before he gets to my house due to the amount he has on his list and also the time it takes with administration. He advised it’s a slow process. Im going to be carrying out some small renovations and would think cost of new windows will be included to avail of the grant. For example changing standard kitchen windows to large 3.5m sliding. We will see.

The issue that concerns me slightly is that there is only one contractor in donegal doing this (that I know of) so will that mean less competitive costings?

I got my ber rating yesterday E2..E for Eskimo 🀣 I watched eco eye on player last night. It was good, gave good insight into the process so worth watching.

WhestCork2018

Does anyone know of a contractor based in Cork that is doing the Deep Retrofit scheme, We are doing a full renovation and this programme is really peaking our interest at the moment because we are doing everything, i.e external insulation, new roof, windows, heating system, plumbing, electricals, but we too are finding it very hard to find information on what contractors do it and I am not sure if the SEAI website is updated with current contractors.

Any help would be greatly appreciated?

If we are going spending that much money we figure we may aswell try it!

WhestCork2018

Has anyone had any luck with this? any of the contractors that I have contacted seem to be "Full to capacity" or not taking on any more projects at the moment?

Has anyone on here actually completed the scheme?

Thanks

Calibos

booooonzo wrote: »

Did you watch eco eye on RTE the other day?

had 2 couples going through the scheme on it. was interesting

40/50k seems to be a more realistic price for detached homes. So 80/100k total for the deep retro fit works.
you would then want other works done I would imagine if you have floors up etc.. so it's not the cheapest thing to go through.

I am waiting on a price for our own house this week but don't expect it to be cheap. i'll let you know

Jaysus.

Hope the next owners of these houses or the owners grandkids appreciate the spend that'll never pay back in the owners lifetime!

booooonzo

just got mine back 140k +

ridiculous.

that involves EWI/Tripple glazing/new doors. air 2 water pump/ UFH / solar

Evd-Burner

booooonzo wrote: »

just got mine back 140k +

ridiculous.

that involves EWI/Tripple glazing/new doors. air 2 water pump/ UFH / solar

How big is your house and where are you based in the country?

What is EWI?

s7ryf3925pivug

EWI is external wall insulation

booooonzo

Evd-Burner wrote: »

How big is your house and where are you based in the country?

What is EWI?

yip, external wall insulation
based in NorthWest
house is 220sqM 2 story detached.

not small but not massive either.
the more i think about it the crazier the quote seems. I would be better buy a ruin and start with that.

Buddy83

booooonzo wrote: »

yip, external wall insulation
based in NorthWest
house is 220sqM 2 story detached.

not small but not massive either.
the more i think about it the crazier the quote seems. I would be better buy a ruin and start with that.

Wowza, thats a crazy quote, is there any room for bringing the cost down, will they allow if applicable, pumping the walls instead of EWI or foregoing the UFH all together?

Lumen

Construction is expensive.

s7ryf3925pivug

booooonzo wrote: »

yip, external wall insulation
based in NorthWest
house is 220sqM 2 story detached.

not small but not massive either.
the more i think about it the crazier the quote seems. I would be better buy a ruin and start with that.

Yeah. Probably why it seems like 90% of planning applications we see in the countryside are to knock an old bungalow and build a big new house.

Evd-Burner

That price just seems excessive though!

I would have thought the below as a rough guide on a 4 bed.

18k EWI
16k solar and battery
15k heat pump
18k windows and doors
4k attic done properly
10k Underfloor heating

81k total?

What about MHRV and new electric wiring. Does it include any other work in the house?

booooonzo

sorry i forgot HRV

high level break down
ex vat prices

EWI - 43k
scaffolding 3k
windows 18k
A2W - underfloor and rads upstairs - 20k
ground floor insulation - 15k
3kva solar - 8k
attic insulation (cellous) 3k
HRV 7.5k
Sprayfoam lean too and main roof 4.7

some other small bits

Mistymeg

booooonzo wrote: »

yip, external wall insulation
based in NorthWest
house is 220sqM 2 story detached.

not small but not massive either.
the more i think about it the crazier the quote seems. I would be better buy a ruin and start with that.

Hi , are u in donegal? Just asking as I am also and understand there is only one contractor doing these projects up here. That concerned me from a competition element as regards to pricing.

I’m told he can’t get me on list until next year but If the price is anywhere near that I’ll need to reconsider this. I’ve just submitted my ber and he said he will give me an initial price but won’t be able to give confirmed price until he gets the details from seai next year. Thanks.

Buddy83

booooonzo wrote: »

sorry i forgot HRV

high level break down
ex vat prices

EWI - 43k
scaffolding 3k
windows 18k
A2W - underfloor and rads upstairs - 20k
ground floor insulation - 15k
3kva solar - 8k
attic insulation (cellous) 3k
HRV 7.5k
Sprayfoam lean too and main roof 4.7

some other small bits

43k for EWI? wowza, I was quoted (including scaffolding) a rough price of €100 per sq mt, with that dropping to €85 to €88 for a bungalow with no scaffolding needed. If you are insulating the external walls and the attic, would you get away with not insulating the floor, leaving out the underfloor heating and upgrading the rads to suit the A2W heatpump? with the solar and the A2W that should buy you enough credits to reach an A3 grant level?

Lumen

Buddy83 wrote: »

If you are insulating the external walls and the attic, would you get away with not insulating the floor, leaving out the underfloor heating and upgrading the rads to suit the A2W heatpump? with the solar and the A2W that should buy you enough credits to reach an A3 grant level?

Doubt it.

Check out this case study:

http://www.ecocel.ie/wp-content/uploads/2017/07/Ecocel-Passive-House-Plus-Issue-17.pdf

EWI, insulated floor, solar, still only hit the worse end of A3.

Buddy83

Lumen wrote: »

Doubt it.

Check out this case study:

http://www.ecocel.ie/wp-content/uploads/2017/07/Ecocel-Passive-House-Plus-Issue-17.pdf

EWI, insulated floor, solar, still only hit the worse end of A3.

very interesting read, thanks for sending it on..... they are still using fossil fuel (gas boiler) I wonder how much their BER would have improved if they had gone for the A2W heat pump.......

EdgeCase

I can't really see this working. At €80,000 per home to retrofit say 1 million homes would cost €80 billion. There's no way that could be funded.

s7ryf3925pivug

EdgeCase wrote: »

I can't really see this working. At €80,000 per home to retrofit say 1 million homes would cost €80 billion. There's no way that could be funded.

They say it's limited. They'll pull it before anywhere close to 1M grants are issued.

It's good that they're funding improving houses like this but it's bad in the sense that in practice they're giving money to people who already have a good bit of money to spare.

It's like the way you can avoid a lot of income tax if you can afford to lock a lot of your income into a pension. Socialism for the rich and the poor, at the expense of the people in the middle.

Sorry starting to derail the thread a bit...

booooonzo

Legend Muscular Numskull wrote: »

They say it's limited. They'll pull it before anywhere close to 1M grants are issued.

It's good that they're funding improving houses like this but it's bad in the sense that in practice they're giving money to people who already have a q good bit of money to spare.

It's like the way you can avoid a lot of income tax if you can afford to lock a lot of your income into a pension. Socialism for the rich and the poor, at the expense of the people in the middle.

Sorry starting to derail the thread a bit...

no you're right, each batch of 5 houses has to have one 90% funded fuel poverty house too afaik

WhestCork2018

So we received another reply from another company today that they are not taking applications, seems to be like a lotto to even get picked!

Muahahaha

Open to correction on this but I checked this out last October and got the impression from the company that they submit applicants to the SEAI towards years end for inclusion in the following years scheme. They had emailed me asking if I wanted to proceed and needed to know my answer by mid-November if I wanted to get on the 2019 scheme. So you might need to wait towards years end for 2020. Only way to find out for sure is to ring the SEAI, they are pretty helpful on the phone in my experience.

hesker

Lumen wrote: »

Doubt it.

Check out this case study:

http://www.ecocel.ie/wp-content/uploads/2017/07/Ecocel-Passive-House-Plus-Issue-17.pdf

EWI, insulated floor, solar, still only hit the worse end of A3.

We viewed that house when looking to purchase several years back prior to the retrofit. Nice job.

Buddy83

Muahahaha wrote: »

Open to correction on this but I checked this out last October and got the impression from the company that they submit applicants to the SEAI towards years end for inclusion in the following years scheme. They had emailed me asking if I wanted to proceed and needed to know my answer by mid-November if I wanted to get on the 2019 scheme. So you might need to wait towards years end for 2020. Only way to find out for sure is to ring the SEAI, they are pretty helpful on the phone in my experience.

We have a company coming out to do an on-site survey for us next week, with a view to submitting an application to SEAI for funding this year. Company said if our application is successful they can schedule the works to begin late Sept 2019 early Oct 2019. They will be submitting 7 applications at the one time.

VonLuck

I am a bit unclear as to what the requirements are for the deep retrofit grant. Does the building have to achieve a BER rating of A3 upon completion to qualify?

I am currently considering the purchase and refurbishment of a property, but the viability will depend on this grant. Is there any way of finding out if this is a runner or would I have to purchase the property, apply for a grant and then await the outcome?

Evd-Burner

VonLuck wrote: »

I am a bit unclear as to what the requirements are for the deep retrofit grant. Does the building have to achieve a BER rating of A3 upon completion to qualify?

I am currently considering the purchase and refurbishment of a property, but the viability will depend on this grant. Is there any way of finding out if this is a runner or would I have to purchase the property, apply for a grant hand then await the outcome?

From what I heard from others regarding his scheme I definitely wouldn't decide to buy a house depending on the scheme. I am in the process of hopefully buying a house towards the end of this year.

Buddy83

VonLuck wrote: »

I am a bit unclear as to what the requirements are for the deep retrofit grant. Does the building have to achieve a BER rating of A3 upon completion to qualify?

I am currently considering the purchase and refurbishment of a property, but the viability will depend on this grant. Is there any way of finding out if this is a runner or would I have to purchase the property, apply for a grant and then await the outcome?

will depend on this grant. Is there any way of finding out if this is a runner or would I have to purchase the property, apply for a grant and then await the outcome?[/QUOTE]

Per SEAI website house must have a current BER (in last 6 months) of C3 or worse, house must have been built prior to 2007. Once these 2 criteria are ticked, next step is finding a service provider that can take the job on (I have found this not to be the easiest of things to do) Once you find one, they will want a fresh BER and Air tightness survey completed, you organise and pay for it and send the service provider the reports. Once received (I think the main thing they need to see is that your house is C3 or worse and that you have Air change per hour of 5 or less for heat Pump to be viable) they will organise an onsite survey which takes about 2 hours. After that they will send you detailed costings for the project. Once you are both happy with the proposed works and costs, the service provider sends an application form on your behalf to the SEAI for funding. It can take the SEAI up to 8 weeks to repond, If an offer of funding is received from the SEAI only then does construction work start. I hope this helps, and best of luck!

VonLuck

Buddy83 wrote: »

will depend on this grant. Is there any way of finding out if this is a runner or would I have to purchase the property, apply for a grant and then await the outcome?

Per SEAI website house must have a current BER (in last 6 months) of C3 or worse, house must have been built prior to 2007. Once these 2 criteria are ticked, next step is finding a service provider that can take the job on (I have found this not to be the easiest of things to do) Once you find one, they will want a fresh BER and Air tightness survey completed, you organise and pay for it and send the service provider the reports. Once received (I think the main thing they need to see is that your house is C3 or worse and that you have Air change per hour of 5 or less for heat Pump to be viable) they will organise an onsite survey which takes about 2 hours. After that they will send you detailed costings for the project. Once you are both happy with the proposed works and costs, the service provider sends an application form on your behalf to the SEAI for funding. It can take the SEAI up to 8 weeks to repond, If an offer of funding is received from the SEAI only then does construction work start. I hope this helps, and best of luck!

Thanks for the detailed response. I assume this provider provides every item that is eligible for a grant e.g. heat pumps, external insulation, radiators etc.? Is there any grant for improving your windows and doors as well?

In the event I am not eligible for the deep retrofit grant, are the other single grants still available? I know there is a €3500 grant for a heat pump along - is that still the same process? Could an application be rejected for some reason?

Buddy83

VonLuck wrote: »

Thanks for the detailed response. I assume this provider provides every item that is eligible for a grant e.g. heat pumps, external insulation, radiators etc.? Is there any grant for improving your windows and doors as well?

In the event I am not eligible for the deep retrofit grant, are the other single grants still available? I know there is a €3500 grant for a heat pump along - is that still the same process? Could an application be rejected for some reason?

Yes the service provider will organise every item for the project, some of them are deep retrofit companies who have different staff with expertise in each area, and some are a project management service who will organise and contract out the work to other individual companies. Part of the Deep Retro fit Grant is the upgrading of your windows and doors if necessary (now you probably wont get 50% towards top of the range alu clad, more likely to be up to 50% for their treble glaze PVC counterparts, which would still go along way and you could supplement the budget to stretch to alu-clad etc if you so wished.

Yes there are quite a few single grants available, heat pump, solar panels, certain types of wall and attic insulation etc etc Id recommend having a good read on the SEAI website, they have lots of info on each of the separate grants available and the process required to avail of them.

In regards to an application being rejected, I'm assuming you mean the deep retrofit? I'm sure there are reasons for this to happen also you are not guaranteed to get the full 50% so you have to prove in advance that you have the funds to cover X amount of the project. With certain providers you have to pay 100% of the project yourself in stages as the project progresses and you get up to 50% back from the SEAI when works are completed. There are a couple of companies who will "front" this 50% themselves so you only need to prove that you have the balancing % not covered by the SEAI funding offer.

Might be worth contacting a service provider and having a chat? You'll get more information but obviously no guarentees.

Buddy83

So we finally got our detailed costings for our planned deep retrofit project due to commence Jan 2020. Well shocking isnt the word.... i actually still dont have any words..... Figures are .. well again i have no words:

EWI 228 mt sq €37,500
Windows and Doors PVC Triple glazed €31,000
Wood burning Stove €3,500
Solar PV 1.5 - 2.0 kw PV €5,650
DCV €5,550
Attic Insulation 200 mt sq €6,680
Plumbing and Heating €25,150
*12 KW samsun Air source heat pump & controls
*Joule 200/60L pre plumber cylinder
* Low temp aliminium rads and piping etc

There are alot of other extras that continue to bump up the price including an additional 5% to cover cost of skips, health and safety, tool hire etc and another couple of k to make good plastering where affected...... and then of course none of these figures include the 13.5% VAT

Has anyone on here gone through this process with a provider they would reccommend? (PM please)

Feeling Disillusioned