Citizenship - Where is my passport?

ito · 06-01-2021 10:55am #1

Good morning and happy new year, lads!

Last December I applied to the Irish citizenship and I had to send my passport (with another 2 Kg. of papers) to the justice department.

Do you know how long it takes for them to send it back to me?

Thanks in advance,

Caranica · 06-01-2021 11:03am

ito wrote: »

Good morning and happy new year, lads!

Last December I applied to the Irish citizenship and I had to send my passport (with another 2 Kg. of papers) to the justice department.

Do you know how long it takes for them to send it back to me?

Thanks in advance,

There is no definitive answer, could be weeks, could be months. Do you need it back for a particular reason? If so and you don't get an answer from INIS, then contact your local TD, they have a direct contact in INIS.

ito · 06-01-2021 11:11am

Caranica wrote: »

There is no definitive answer, could be weeks, could be months. Do you need it back for a particular reason? If so and you don't get an answer from INIS, then contact your local TD, they have a direct contact in INIS.

Thanks for your answer, I appreciate it.

I don't actually need it (EU, I have my ID), but they don't say anything about delays sending it back to you... I was just wondering.

What is a TD?

Victor · 06-01-2021 11:46am

ito wrote: »

What is a TD?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Teachta_D%C3%A1la

A Teachta Dála (plural Teachtaí Dála), abbreviated as TD (plural TDanna in Irish or TDs in English), is a member of Dáil Éireann, the lower house of the Oireachtas (the Irish Parliament). It is the equivalent of terms such as Member of Parliament (MP) or Member of Congress used in other countries.

ito · 06-01-2021 11:48am

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=

Victor wrote: »

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Teachta_D%C3%A1la

Thanks! :pac:

GerardKeating · 06-01-2021 11:50am

ito wrote: »

Last December I applied to the Irish citizenship and I had to send my passport (with another 2 Kg. of papers) to the justice department.

Do you know how long it takes for them to send it back to me?

When in December did you send it in, it would normally take 2/3 working weeks, but with Christmas/New Year holidays and related postal delays, unles you sent in at the very very start of the month, i would be surpise if it was back by now.

ito · 06-01-2021 11:54am

GerardKeating wrote: »

When in December did you send it in, it would normally take 2/3 working weeks, but with Christmas/New Year holidays and related postal delays, unles you sent in at the very very start of the month, i would be surpise if it was back by now.

On the 4th. I will be patience and wait until Feb.; there might be a delay because of Christmas and also the Brexit, as the UK applications were increasing apparently.:eek:

Thanks!

06-01-2021 12:16pm

ito wrote: »

What is a TD?

Is there not a culture and knowledge test for citizenship in Ireland?

ito · 06-01-2021 1:28pm

Niner leprauchan wrote: »

Is there not a culture and knowledge test for citizenship in Ireland?

hahahaha! Good one

!

Not for European people. You just need to probe that you have been living/working 5 years in here and pay more than 1K in total. :pac:

victor8600 · 06-01-2021 1:43pm

Niner leprauchan wrote: »

Is there not a culture and knowledge test for citizenship in Ireland?

None whatsoever. As a naturalised Irish citizen, I would have preferred to have such a test. Maybe also An Ghaeilge test, just to make it more interesting.

But that would mean that someone in the government would have to make an effort and set the test up, and it's probably too much hassle for a little political gain.

victor8600 · 06-01-2021 1:45pm

ito wrote: »

Do you know how long it takes for them to send it back to me?

If you need your passport soon, you can call the Dept. and ask them to sent it back. They can check it and make a photocopy, I suppose.

ito · 06-01-2021 1:55pm

victor8600 wrote: »

If you need your passport soon, you can call the Dept. and ask them to sent it back. They can check it and make a photocopy, I suppose.

It is grand, I am not in a rush at all!

07-01-2021 12:17am

victor8600 wrote: »

None whatsoever. As a naturalised Irish citizen, I would have preferred to have such a test. Maybe also An Ghaeilge test, just to make it more interesting.

But that would mean that someone in the government would have to make an effort and set the test up, and it's probably too much hassle for a little political gain.

Really? I never looked into it before for Ireland. Seems odd that a country will have citizenship without a knowledge of the country and it's spoken language.

We are a bit too quick to be seen as welcoming sometimes I think

newuser99999 · 07-01-2021 12:19am

Niner leprauchan wrote: »

Really? I never looked into it before for Ireland. Seems odd that a country will have citizenship without a knowledge of the country and it's spoken language.

We are a bit too quick to be seen as welcoming sometimes I think

If most Irish people had to take a spoken language test in the morning they’d fail.

Get off your high horse.

ito · 07-01-2021 12:20am

Niner leprauchan wrote: »

Really? I never looked into it before for Ireland. Seems odd that a country will have citizenship without a knowledge of the country and it's spoken language.

We are a bit too quick to be seen as welcoming sometimes I think

Nothing at all. Just some (a lot) of paperwork and a payment of around a grand of everything is OK.

ohnonotgmail · 07-01-2021 1:56am

Niner leprauchan wrote: »

Really? I never looked into it before for Ireland. Seems odd that a country will have citizenship without a knowledge of the country and it's spoken language.

We are a bit too quick to be seen as welcoming sometimes I think

good job we have you to balance that out.

PommieBast · 07-01-2021 2:17am

Caranica wrote: »

There is no definitive answer, could be weeks, could be months. Do you need it back for a particular reason? If so and you don't get an answer from INIS, then contact your local TD, they have a direct contact in INIS.

When I applied the one bit of advice I was given was to deliberately omit a minor piece of documentation, as then you get the passport very quickly with a request for further information. Got mine back within a week.

Rachiee · 07-01-2021 2:30am

My partner applied last year, it was v. busy due to Brexit. It took her 16 weeks to get her passport back! I thought it was disgraceful as it would have caused serious difficulties if she had to travel for a family emergency

Caranica · 07-01-2021 2:48am

Rachiee wrote: »

My partner applied last year, it was v. busy due to Brexit. It took her 16 weeks to get her passport back! I thought it was disgraceful as it would have caused serious difficulties if she had to travel for a family emergency

Like I said, a TD could get it back very quickly if it was urgently needed. They don't hold the passports captive, they just deal with applications strictly in the order they are received.

Peregrinus · 07-01-2021 4:02am

Niner leprauchan wrote: »

Really? I never looked into it before for Ireland. Seems odd that a country will have citizenship without a knowledge of the country and it's spoken language.

We are a bit too quick to be seen as welcoming sometimes I think

Ireland is pretty mainstream here. About two-thirds of EU countries apply a language test for naturalisation, but fewer than half apply any kind of civics test. Both language and civics tests have grown in popularity in the last decade or so.

The impetus for the tests seems to be political; there has been little research into whether the language tests promote employment or social inclusion opportunities for migrants, or whether the civics tests promote identification with public values of the host society, and such research as has been conducted hasn't found any evidence that they do either of these things.

The only observed effect is that economically disadvantaged immigrants, who lack the resources to pay for language classes and the like, are less likely to apply for naturalistion, especially if the language test demands a high level of competence, so you risk ending up with an underclass of immigrants who are deterred from seeking naturalisation, which has the opposite effect from promoting integration.

PommieBast · 07-01-2021 11:28am

Caranica wrote: »

Like I said, a TD could get it back very quickly if it was urgently needed. They don't hold the passports captive, they just deal with applications strictly in the order they are received.

Might be true for the initial application checking, but it certainty is not for the process as a whole. I have known spouses who applied at the same time to have 6+ months differences in approval. :eek:

ito · 07-01-2021 11:35am

Peregrinus wrote: »

Ireland is pretty mainstream here. About two-thirds of EU countries apply a language test for naturalisation, but fewer than half apply any kind of civics test. Both language and civics tests have grown in popularity in the last decade or so.

The impetus for the tests seems to be political; there has been little research into whether the language tests promote employment or social inclusion opportunities for migrants, or whether the civics tests promote identification with public values of the host society, and such research as has been conducted hasn't found any evidence that they do either of these things.

The only observed effect is that economically disadvantaged immigrants, who lack the resources to pay for language classes and the like, are less likely to apply for naturalistion, especially if the language test demands a high level of competence, so you risk ending up with an underclass of immigrants who are deterred from seeking naturalisation, which has the opposite effect from promoting integration.

Spain has a language, history and a culture exam that I wouldn't pass myself because they ask you even about TV references that I don't follow.

Caranica · 07-01-2021 11:38am

PommieBast wrote: »

Might be true for the initial application checking, but it certainty is not for the process as a whole. I have known spouses who applied at the same time to have 6+ months differences in approval. :eek:

That doesn't mean they don't start processing them at the same time. Spouses won't have the exact same paperwork, employment history, police clearance etc. Some applications just take longer than others.

07-01-2021 11:41am

is the cost worth it?

Isn't it about 1200 euro to become an Irish Citizen? I can understand why someone from outside the EU would want citizenship but why an EU citizen? You have all the same rights and privileges apart from voting in referendums I believe?

Not attacking, just curious to understand the motivation, I can think of far better ways to spend 1200 euro!

PommieBast · 07-01-2021 11:52am

Deleted User wrote: »

is the cost worth it?

Isn't it about 1200 euro to become an Irish Citizen? I can understand why someone from outside the EU would want citizenship but why an EU citizen? You have all the same rights and privileges apart from voting in referendums I believe?

Not attacking, just curious to understand the motivation, I can think of far better ways to spend 1200 euro!

The all-in cost including sundries is about €1500. I consider it worth it to regain what I lost due to Brexit, because I know what it is like living with visas.

07-01-2021 1:17pm

Afaik, a lot of the current backlog is related to staff being redeployed due to Covid. If it's not urgent I'd just wait until it arrives, since there will be people who need their passports urgently. (at least that's the reason my Irish friend was given when applying for a passport for his kid born elsewhere in the EU).

ito · 07-01-2021 1:18pm

Deleted User wrote: »

is the cost worth it?

Isn't it about 1200 euro to become an Irish Citizen? I can understand why someone from outside the EU would want citizenship but why an EU citizen? You have all the same rights and privileges apart from voting in referendums I believe?

Not attacking, just curious to understand the motivation, I can think of far better ways to spend 1200 euro!

It depends; imagine that you are from East Europe; the Irish passport is more powerful than the Bulgarian one (more info).

I wouldn't apply for it if I was losing my Spanish passport, but with the UK outside the EU I think it is a good idea to have this one as well.

Also, I believe that if I wanted to study a Masters here, I wouldn't need to pass an English exam.

07-01-2021 4:01pm

newuser99999 wrote: »

If most Irish people had to take a spoken language test in the morning they’d fail.

Get off your high horse.

Really? You think the majority of the nation don't have a reasonable grasp of the English language?

Being able to perform your day to day tasks in the spoken language of the nation is not an unreasonable requirement.

07-01-2021 4:05pm

ito wrote: »

Spain has a language, history and a culture exam that I wouldn't pass myself because they ask you even about TV references that I don't follow.

Deoends on region but it really isn't that hard.
In them all. If you have lived there and integrated to some extent, you will pass. Or at least that's my view after sitting it. The language course was by far the harder part.

Peregrinus wrote: »

Ireland is pretty mainstream here. About two-thirds of EU countries apply a language test for naturalisation, but fewer than half apply any kind of civics test. Both language and civics tests have grown in popularity in the last decade or so.

The impetus for the tests seems to be political; there has been little research into whether the language tests promote employment or social inclusion opportunities for migrants, or whether the civics tests promote identification with public values of the host society, and such research as has been conducted hasn't found any evidence that they do either of these things.

The only observed effect is that economically disadvantaged immigrants, who lack the resources to pay for language classes and the like, are less likely to apply for naturalistion, especially if the language test demands a high level of competence, so you risk ending up with an underclass of immigrants who are deterred from seeking naturalisation, which has the opposite effect from promoting integration.

Indeed and I can only look at personal experience but there's plenty of free Spanish language classes run by the red cross in Spain. I never paid a penny.

The civic exam should exist, it need not be very difficult but basic stuff like knowing how to vote and the political system is important in a democracy. I passed the spanish version without any studying, it was all fairly generic common knowledge but the catalonian version is supposed to be hard.

Victor · 07-01-2021 4:56pm

Deleted User wrote: »

Isn't it about 1200 euro to become an Irish Citizen? I can understand why someone from outside the EU would want citizenship but why an EU citizen? You have all the same rights and privileges apart from voting in referendums I believe?

No. Non-Irish EU citizens can only vote in local elections (and European elections if they don't vote in their other country). British citizens can only vote in local and general elections (and possibly presidential)

ebayissues · 07-01-2021 5:00pm

Niner leprauchan wrote: »

Is there not a culture and knowledge test for citizenship in Ireland?

I'm astonished as well

ito · 07-01-2021 5:14pm

Niner leprauchan wrote: »

Deoends on region but it really isn't that hard.
In them all. If you have lived there and integrated to some extent, you will pass. Or at least that's my view after sitting it. The language course was by far the harder part.

Indeed and I can only look at personal experience but there's plenty of free Spanish language classes run by the red cross in Spain. I never paid a penny.

The civic exam should exist, it need not be very difficult but basic stuff like knowing how to vote and the political system is important in a democracy. I passed the spanish version without any studying, it was all fairly generic common knowledge but the catalonian version is supposed to be hard.

Well, it depends... Apparently they ask you questions about "famous people" whose lives I will never follow (it goes against my principles).

Is the exam different depending of where you do it? well, I guess it is like the driving exam... Some people go hundreds of km. away because it is easier!

PommieBast · 07-01-2021 5:45pm

Victor wrote: »

No. Non-Irish EU citizens can only vote in local elections. British citizens can only vote in local and general elections (and possibly presidential)

Non-Irish EU citizens can also vote in Euro-elections. Pre-Brexit UK citizens were allowed to vote in all elections except presidential and referenda.

runawaybishop · 07-01-2021 5:49pm

Niner leprauchan wrote: »

Is there not a culture and knowledge test for citizenship in Ireland?

ito wrote: »

lads!

ito wrote: »

It is grand

Immediate pass imo.

ito · 07-01-2021 5:55pm

runawaybishop wrote: »

Immediate pass imo.

:P You should hear my Irish with Spanish accent... :pac:

07-01-2021 9:36pm

ito wrote: »

Well, it depends... Apparently they ask you questions about "famous people" whose lives I will never follow (it goes against my principles).

Is the exam different depending of where you do it? well, I guess it is like the driving exam... Some people go hundreds of km. away because it is easier!

Maybe in certain regions. Like I said, mine was fairly easy but I took a catalonian example as well before the actual, even my wife was struggling.

ito · 07-01-2021 9:39pm

Niner leprauchan wrote: »

Maybe in certain regions. Like I said, mine was fairly easy but I took a catalonian example as well before the actual, even my wife was struggling.

Interesting... AFAIK all the questions are about the culture, laws, etc. in the whole country, rather than an specific area. Maybe, as I mentioned, is like the driving license!

Anyway, no exams here (for now).

Caranica · 07-01-2021 10:43pm

Some basics really would help though, like knowing what a TD is

ito · 07-01-2021 10:50pm

Caranica wrote: »

Some basics really would help though, like knowing what a TD is

Lesson Learned, hahaha!

Where would you set the boundaries? Language (English or Irish), history, politics...? I am extremely happy I don't need to decide over that

!

victor8600 · 08-01-2021 12:30am

Niner leprauchan wrote: »

We are a bit too quick to be seen as welcoming sometimes I think

I don't think so. I did a university degree in Cork which would have counted towards the citizenship applications but for the fact that the law was changed in 2003. When I have applied 6 years later all the while working and paying taxes, it only took a little bit over 2 years to process my application. Not that I mind the wsit much, but renewing visas and work permits was getting tiresome.

Jim2007 · 08-01-2021 12:51am

Niner leprauchan wrote: »

Really? I never looked into it before for Ireland. Seems odd that a country will have citizenship without a knowledge of the country and it's spoken language.

We are a bit too quick to be seen as welcoming sometimes I think

For an EU citizen it is not make any difference. Provided you meet the EU directive you are entitled to live anywhere in the EU and must be treated the same as every citizen.

And that includes diplomatic support abroad if you can't get support from an Irish embassy. Just pick anyone of the other 26 and they have to support you, exactly the same as one of their own citizens.

Caranica · 08-01-2021 2:35am

ito wrote: »

Lesson Learned, hahaha!

Where would you set the boundaries? Language (English or Irish), history, politics...? I am extremely happy I don't need to decide over that !

I think a basic civics course would be no harm. As an Irish citizen you would have the rights to vote in all levels of elections as well as referenda. How our political system works, how to vote etc would be very useful.

Jim2007 · 08-01-2021 7:34am

PommieBast wrote: »

Might be true for the initial application checking, but it certainty is not for the process as a whole. I have known spouses who applied at the same time to have 6+ months differences in approval. :eek:

One of the big issues for an EU citizen is confirming the residency requirements. Unlike other member states, so long as an EU citizen enters the country legally, it’s possible to to live a life where you don’t generate an official document trail to show residency.

Even income taxes don’t prove anything beyond the fact that you received income from an Irish employer.

Peregrinus · 08-01-2021 7:45am

Caranica wrote: »

I think a basic civics course would be no harm. As an Irish citizen you would have the rights to vote in all levels of elections as well as referenda. How our political system works, how to vote etc would be very useful.

Is there evidence of need for this? Do naturalised citizens vote at a lower rate than other citizens?

We have no requirement for people who are citizens by birth or inheritance to take such a course; I'd be slow to impose it on citizens by naturalisation without some actual evidence that it was needed. It's not as though voting is a uniquely Irish practice, or that we vote in some bizarre and unusual fashion that is hard to understand if you're not born to it.

It seems to me that this process should be evidence-led; we should be looking to the actual experiences of naturalised citizens to find out what needs, problems or issues they have as naturalised citizens, and then seeking to address those in the naturalisation process (if appropriate — there may be better ways to address them), rather than starting from a priori assumptions, which are probably going to address our own preconceptions and prejudices more than they address anyone's actual needs.

Bear in mind that to be naturalised in Ireland you need to have lived here for a fair spread of years, so candidates for naturalisation will have picked up a good deal of information already. Plus, the great majority of them are citizens of other functioning democracies. So an assumption that they can't get to grips with Irish ways of voting, or Irish ways generally, is not really justified.

Jim2007 · 08-01-2021 7:48am

Deleted User wrote: »

is the cost worth it?

Isn't it about 1200 euro to become an Irish Citizen? I can understand why someone from outside the EU would want citizenship but why an EU citizen? You have all the same rights and privileges apart from voting in referendums I believe?

Not attacking, just curious to understand the motivation, I can think of far better ways to spend 1200 euro!

For an EU/EEA/CH citizen it’s a personal decision, you do it because you want to participate more fully in daily life, you feel obligated to defend the country when you hear it being criticized or you feel a sense of belonging.

My wife took out Irish citizenship for that reason and I took out Swiss citizenship for the same reasons.

Jim2007 · 08-01-2021 8:01am

Caranica wrote: »

I think a basic civics course would be no harm. As an Irish citizen you would have the rights to vote in all levels of elections as well as referenda. How our political system works, how to vote etc would be very useful.

Probably be a good idea to apply that to everyone. Most people don’t understand that we have a sovereign people, where as the other EU states have sovereign parliaments nor what it means... The fact that Dublin and Cork have a Sheriff nor what their roles are etc...

Peregrinus · 08-01-2021 8:01am

Jim2007 wrote: »

For an EU/EEA/CH citizen it’s a personal decision . . .

It's a decision a lot of people make. The most recently published naturalisation figures that I have found date from 2018, and the top three nationalities for naturalisations were Poland, Romania and UK, in that order. (UK was an EU member state at the time, of course.) So EU/EEA citizens make up a large chunk of the people who choose to be naturalised in Ireland.

Jacovs · 08-01-2021 8:08am

@ OP

This is where they post announcements relating to citizenship.

https://www.irishimmigration.ie/citizenship/

I note just yesterday they repeated their announcement about returning passports. They advise not to send passports or applications as most of their staff are working remotely and cant verify the passports.
They will only return your passport if you need to travel for emergency reasons, like a medical reason, and for that you need to email them a copy of your consultant letter. Be aware they can take 4 weeks to reply to an email.

When I applied during normal times in August 2019 I got my passport back within less than a week. Was approved for citizenship after exactly 6 months. However still waiting on a ceremony or the statutory instrument/declaration they intend to use to clear the backlog.

Good luck.

Peregrinus · 08-01-2021 8:21am

Jim2007 wrote: »

Probably be a good idea to apply that to everyone. Most people don’t understand that we have a sovereign people, where as the other EU states have sovereign parliaments nor what it means... The fact that Dublin and Cork have a Sheriff nor what their roles are etc...

I think you can function perfectly well as a citizen without knowing what the role of a sheriff is, or while under the misconception that Ireland is unique in the EU in having a sovereign people while other member states have sovereign parliaments. (In Belgium, Spain and Portugal, for example, it is the people who are sovereign; in France the Republic is sovereign, but it derives its sovereignty from the people; in Italy sovereignty belongs to the people and is exercised by them; in Poland sovereignty is exercised by the nation; in the UK it is the Crown which is sovereign; in Demark sovereignty belongs to the nation but is vested in the Sovereign (D'uh!); in Finland both the Republic and the people are sovereign; in Luxembourg the nation is sovereign; in Croatia sovereignty is the right of the nation and is an attribute of the state; etc etc).

Alf Veedersane · 08-01-2021 8:34am

Caranica wrote: »

I think a basic civics course would be no harm. As an Irish citizen you would have the rights to vote in all levels of elections as well as referenda. How our political system works, how to vote etc would be very useful.

Having worked in a polling station at local and European elections, everyone should have that because there are plenty of people who had to have the whole thing explained to them when they turned up.

L1011 · 08-01-2021 9:10am

Caranica wrote: »

I think a basic civics course would be no harm. As an Irish citizen you would have the rights to vote in all levels of elections as well as referenda. How our political system works, how to vote etc would be very useful.

My Civics teacher back in the mists of time did not believe, at all, that European citizens could vote for MEP and all residents could vote for council, even when given a voter registration form; so be careful what you wish for.

She was a home ec teacher that had been bundled in to the role admittedly

Citizenship - Where is my passport?

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