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Utilities Contract Renewal

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  • 31-10-2018 3:02pm
    #1
    Stationmaster
    Registered Users Posts: 828 ✭✭✭


    Apologies if this is asked often but I couldn't find much information about it on the search function.

    This is my problem and there is a very good chance I am in the wrong and if I am then it's my own fault!

    I contacted one of my utility providers today so cancel my monthly payment to them and service. I was out of a two year contract last April and assumed I was no longer in contract and was just paying for the service month to month.

    I was informed that I was still in contract as they sent me an email last March (I have no reason to doubt them as I would sometimes not read every email that comes in) giving me 30 days to let them know I was not renewing my contract or else it would automatically renew for 12 months. Therefore, if I want to cancel the contract now I have to but it out until next April.

    My phone, esb and sky are all currently on a month by month basis and I assumed it would be the same here (I was in contracts initially but when the time period was up I didn't renew as we're moving house shortly). Are they correct in stating that by my non reply they could renew the contract? I thought I had to agree to the renewal but, like I said earlier, if I'm wrong then I'll just have to put it down to carelessness on my part and be more tuned in next year!

    Thanks for any advice out there.


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    #2
    TheDriver
    Registered Users Posts: 12,414 ✭✭✭✭TheDriver


    Now that's interesting, what type of utility? My understanding is that you remain on a rolling 30 day contract with most suppliers but T&C would be the real issue


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    #3
    Stationmaster
    Registered Users Posts: 828 ✭✭✭Stationmaster


    Phonewatch


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    #4
    Mountjoy Mugger
    Registered Users Posts: 4,487 ✭✭✭Mountjoy Mugger


    IANAL, however I think they're chancing their arm. Ask them where in the previous contract it states they may renew.


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    #5
    L1011
    Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 67,853 Mod ✭✭✭✭L1011


    Alarm monitoring is usually a 12 month contract but I'm fairly certain one email is not sufficient to roll over


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    #6
    dudara
    Registered Users Posts: 33,519 ✭✭✭✭dudara


    Ask them to furnish you with a copy of the email sent to you. Also, I wouldn’t really consider an email to be an official way to extend a contract. I would normally expect that kind of notification to be in hard copy writing.


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    #7
    Stationmaster
    Registered Users Posts: 828 ✭✭✭Stationmaster


    Will follow up tomorrow and see how I get on. Thanks.


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    #8
    Time
    Registered Users Posts: 993 ✭✭✭Time


    I’d be interested in reading the terms and conditions of the contract you initially signed but based on what you’ve said the contract based on the email is not valid. The law is clear that you cannot say that failure to reject an offer is equivalent to acceptance (see felthouse v bindley)

    Someone else has suggested that it’s maybe phone watch, if it is their t&cs say in section 3.3 that once the minimum term is up you just have to give 30 days notice


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    #9
    colm_mcm
    Registered Users Posts: 73,390 ✭✭✭✭colm_mcm


    Stationmaster wrote: »
    Apologies if this is asked often but I couldn't find much information about it on the search function.

    This is my problem and there is a very good chance I am in the wrong and if I am then it's my own fault!

    I contacted one of my utility providers today so cancel my monthly payment to them and service. I was out of a two year contract last April and assumed I was no longer in contract and was just paying for the service month to month.

    I was informed that I was still in contract as they sent me an email last March (I have no reason to doubt them as I would sometimes not read every email that comes in) giving me 30 days to let them know I was not renewing my contract or else it would automatically renew for 12 months. Therefore, if I want to cancel the contract now I have to but it out until next April.

    My phone, esb and sky are all currently on a month by month basis and I assumed it would be the same here (I was in contracts initially but when the time period was up I didn't renew as we're moving house shortly). Are they correct in stating that by my non reply they could renew the contract? I thought I had to agree to the renewal but, like I said earlier, if I'm wrong then I'll just have to put it down to carelessness on my part and be more tuned in next year!

    Thanks for any advice out there.

    They can’t legally do that AFAIK.


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    #10
    Stationmaster
    Registered Users Posts: 828 ✭✭✭Stationmaster


    Just an update.

    Rang them on Thursday and the story had changed. They were saying that it was a 36 month contract (which is incorrect as I remember distinctly at the time thinking that the 24 month contract I was entering was probably going to be a few months too long as we were just getting plans together for building a house). Anyway, it was left that they'd send me on a copy of the original contract - I was meant to get that Friday but didn't so I'll ring again tomorrow afternoon if I don't hear anything. I'll also ask them do they keep a record of the 'live chats' as that's where their original representative claimed that I was in a new contract as I hadn't responded to the email back in march.

    Thanks again for the advise to date.


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    #11
    Mountjoy Mugger
    Registered Users Posts: 4,487 ✭✭✭Mountjoy Mugger


    Stationmaster wrote: »
    Apologies if this is asked often but I couldn't find much information about it on the search function.

    digging a bit deeper shows a thread with an identical complaint going back to 2016 on another website.


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    #12
    Stationmaster
    Registered Users Posts: 828 ✭✭✭Stationmaster


    Update.

    Phonewatch just rang to say that I am in a 12 contract as I never contacted them back in March/April within 30 days to say I wasn't renewing. The agent sounded quiet confident that are entitled to do this. I have asked for copies of the contracts etc to see if I've any way out of it.


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    #13
    Under His Eye
    Closed Accounts Posts: 907 ✭✭✭Under His Eye


    Of course they will sound confident. They want you to go away.


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    #14
    SATNAV
    Registered Users Posts: 108 ✭✭SATNAV


    First of all distance selling or renewing of agreement requires a contact on both sides , If you signed up for a 24 month contract and after this period it should revert to a 30 day rolling contract.

    Request the following again:
    1.Copy of original contract and verification of your acceptance weather on chat or verbal.

    2.Copy of email sent to renew ( this would have a date and log file from their email server that you can request ).

    3. Under the data protection act you can request any information they have on you weather digital ,voice and writing .

    4. its my understanding they can not auto renew with out prior approval .
    Best of luck


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    #15
    Stationmaster
    Registered Users Posts: 828 ✭✭✭Stationmaster


    Just found a previous thread with a lot of detail on this matter here https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2057785085

    I've cancelled my direct debit so will wait to get their letter demanding payment of the #contract' in full.


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    #16
    fj4400
    Registered Users Posts: 20 ✭fj4400


    I think you've done the right thing... Don't believe you'll get a refund beyond the time you rang to cancel ... But defo sounds dodgy what they are saying ... I was with them years ago... 25 or 35 a month... Can't remember which... When I rang to leave after 4 / 5 years ... They offered me 15 a month to stay for 12 months ... In this case it would have to be a contract extension option from your 24 month contract where this extension clause was clearly discussed and referenced... If it's buried in the small print ... And was never referenced (their calls are recorded) I the take on call then you are right


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    #17
    Graniteville
    Closed Accounts Posts: 292 ✭✭Graniteville


    SATNAV wrote: »
    4. its my understanding they can not auto renew with out prior approval .
    Best of luck

    Now imagine if the house was broken into and there was no call to Gardai or whoever they call and their answer was "sorry, you did not confirm renewal, so we stopped service"

    Apply that to sky, Eircom, electricity suppliers, gas suppliers etc.

    See where I'm going?

    Phone watch use an annual recurring contract and it's very well detailed in their terms and conditions which I presume the op read before accepting them?

    It would be fairer if they operated a 30 or 90 day cancelation after initial contract, but it's there in black and white and not hidden.

    Always read terms and conditions.


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    #18
    duffman13
    Registered Users Posts: 8,946 ✭✭✭duffman13


    Graniteville wrote: »
    Now imagine if the house was broken into and there was no call to Gardai or whoever they call and their answer was "sorry, you did not confirm renewal, so we stopped service"

    Apply that to sky, Eircom, electricity suppliers, gas suppliers etc.

    See where I'm going?

    Phone watch use an annual recurring contract and it's very well detailed in their terms and conditions which I presume the op read before accepting them?

    It would be fairer if they operated a 30 or 90 day cancelation after initial contract, but it's there in black and white and not hidden.

    Always read terms and conditions.

    Pretty sure it's not legal, also every other utility provider you highlighted offers a 30 day cancellation at the end of contract. Gas and electricity providers you can switch with no notice.

    I'd be slow to recommend cancelling a DD as a way of sorting an issue but in this sense id think it's the OPs best recourse


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    #19
    Time
    Registered Users Posts: 993 ✭✭✭Time


    Graniteville wrote: »
    Now imagine if the house was broken into and there was no call to Gardai or whoever they call and their answer was "sorry, you did not confirm renewal, so we stopped service"

    Apply that to sky, Eircom, electricity suppliers, gas suppliers etc.

    See where I'm going?

    Phone watch use an annual recurring contract and it's very well detailed in their terms and conditions which I presume the op read before accepting them?

    It would be fairer if they operated a 30 or 90 day cancelation after initial contract, but it's there in black and white and not hidden.

    Always read terms and conditions.

    You can write whatever you want into terms and conditions it doesn't mean its legal. In this case it goes against statute and preceding case law.

    I don't understand you think the service would just randomly end though, once the minimum term period has passed the service continues on a rolling basis until the customer decides to cancel. Or if they stop paying Phone Watch can contact them. It's not in their interest to just cut a person off, and they'd be the only utility in Ireland to act in that manner if they did.


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    #20
    Stationmaster
    Registered Users Posts: 828 ✭✭✭Stationmaster


    Update. Phonewatch have sent my case to a debt collection agency who rang me yesterday. They asked was I in a position to pay the balance that Phonewatch claim is outstanding to which I replied that I didn't believe I owed anything so wouldn't be paying anything.

    I was asked for my reasons why, I explained I had already informed Phonewatch of why, several times, and that it should all be there on my file. I was then told they had no information on me only that I owed money and the amount. I told them go back to the Phoewatch as they're acting for them not me and I wouldn't be paying anything. We'll see how it works out....


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    #21
    Gwen Cooper
    Registered Users Posts: 719 ✭✭✭Gwen Cooper


    Usually the debt collection agency knows nothing about the case, they just know that they need to collect a sum of money from you. You should call Phonewatch and talk to them. I know you already have done that multiple times, but the debt agency won't go away until Phonewatch recall the debt.


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