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Dublin Airport New Runway/Infrastructure.

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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 7,440 ✭✭✭The Rape of Lucretia


    Two questions for the well informed :

    1) Do all buses for the red carpark do the loop from T1 to T2 then carpark ? It exiting T1, and there isnt a bus right there or pulling up, are you better off walking over to T2 pickup, where you might save time, but you wont lose any ?

    2) The 'South Gates' prefab building from T2. How long will that be there, and where is the proper extension to T2 going ?


  • Registered Users Posts: 10,672 ✭✭✭✭Jamie2k9


    2) planning is for 5 years but will likely be a few extra and new gates will be in the Cargo area so close to current S Gates.


  • Registered Users Posts: 23,500 ✭✭✭✭Kermit.de.frog


    I see the updated plan for the metro being released tomorrow.

    I hope there will be some sort of indoor connection (underground passageways) or something linking both terminals to the station at the airport.

    Be a bit silly to have to walk outside across roads and parking/bus drop off facilities to reach the station.

    See here for location of station

    https://www.metrolink.ie/#/map


  • Registered Users Posts: 982 ✭✭✭Stephen Strange


    I see the updated plan for the metro being released tomorrow.

    I hope there will be some sort of indoor connection (underground passageways) or something linking both terminals to the station at the airport.

    Be a bit silly to have to walk outside across roads and parking/bus drop off facilities to reach the station.

    See here for location of station

    https://www.metrolink.ie/#/map

    If they do, it would be a good idea to do a link to the buses as well.


  • Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators Posts: 9,733 Mod ✭✭✭✭Tenger


    I see the updated plan for the metro being released tomorrow.

    I hope there will be some sort of indoor connection (underground passageways) or something linking both terminals to the station at the airport.

    Be a bit silly to have to walk outside across roads and parking/bus drop off facilities to reach the station.

    See here for location of station

    https://www.metrolink.ie/#/map
    Have you lived here long?
    I don’t hold out hope for an interior or even outside covered walkway.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 23,500 ✭✭✭✭Kermit.de.frog


    Aye,

    Well, I assume the vast majority of incoming visitors going to the city center would abandon the buses (maybe taxis too) in favor of an underground link.

    So we could end up with a farcical situation of passengers having to stream out in to the open from both terminals having to walk, across roads, outside to get to the station.

    Sigh.


    The station should be under one of the terminals with an underground passenger connection to the other.

    Once again we will be left with the most feckless option.


  • Registered Users Posts: 982 ✭✭✭Stephen Strange


    I don't mind it being away from the terminals if it's underground. Just look at Frankfurt, that works well (although on a huge scale)


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,086 ✭✭✭Nijmegen


    Well if it's replacing the T2 short term car park, that has a covered walkway into T2. It's a longer walk down to T1 but it's also covered isn't it?


  • Registered Users Posts: 10,522 ✭✭✭✭MJohnston


    I don't mind it being away from the terminals if it's underground. Just look at Frankfurt, that works well (although on a huge scale)

    Heathrow too, although that one is so long it's a pain.

    I think we'll get an overground walkway, but it will be covered, as it already is about 80% currently.


  • Registered Users Posts: 23,500 ✭✭✭✭Kermit.de.frog


    MJohnston wrote: »
    Heathrow too, although that one is so long it's a pain.

    I think we'll get an overground walkway, but it will be covered, as it already is about 80% currently.

    I guess that's acceptable...


    ...for a regional airport in the north east of England.


    For a major airport with notions of being a big hub? Probably not.

    The proper approach is to have the station under one of the terminals (connected to the other terminal via an underground passenger link), we won't get that because that's much too sensible. So we are on to the "it'll do approach" which is at the short term surface car park. Fine. Then at least put in proper underground links to both terminals...

    As stated, this is Ireland, and thus that won't happen either.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 10,522 ✭✭✭✭MJohnston


    It'll be 100m walk from the station to T2, and 135m to the doors of the T1 car park. I'm finding it extremely hard to get worked up about this being a problem to be honest.

    Station under the terminals? Pointlessly expensive, disruptive, and likely to put the entire project in jeopardy (for an airport link that isn't even close to being it's primary purpose)

    Underground walkway? Again, pointlessly expensive. None of the traveler accessible parts of the airport terminals are underground, so what's the point?

    A covered walkway at ground floor would do, throw in some travelators and heating if necessary. Sure, make it an elevated walkway even, why not, T2 arrivals are on the second floor after all. These options would still be significantly cheaper than anything needlessly stuck underground.

    In case you're going to whine about walking distances next:
    Paris CDG to RER station = 180m minimum
    LHR T2 to Underground = 250m
    Washington Dulles to (not yet built) Silver Line Metro station = 170m
    Berlin TXL = Oh wait they only have buses....

    But sure, only in Ireland :rolleyes:


  • Registered Users Posts: 168 ✭✭Kev11491


    I guess that's acceptable...


    ...for a regional airport in the north east of England.


    For a major airport with notions of being a big hub? Probably not.

    The proper approach is to have the station under one of the terminals (connected to the other terminal via an underground passenger link), we won't get that because that's much too sensible. So we are on to the "it'll do approach" which is at the short term surface car park. Fine. Then at least put in proper underground links to both terminals...

    As stated, this is Ireland, and thus that won't happen either.

    Its a short enough walk, I don't see what the fuss is! Have you ever used Barcelona airport? Covered walkway not exposed to the elements is perfectly acceptable.


  • Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators Posts: 9,733 Mod ✭✭✭✭Tenger


    Kev11491 wrote: »
    Its a short enough walk, I don't see what the fuss is! Have you ever used Barcelona airport? Covered walkway not exposed to the elements is perfectly acceptable.

    I would agree, as noted above a station under an existing terminal or an underground walkway would be needlessly expensive.
    “Not exposed to the elements” is the important point above a possible walkway connector.
    EG, the ground level outside T2 is completely exposed, the high roofs do feck all to protect people from wind and rain.


  • Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators Posts: 6,521 Mod ✭✭✭✭Irish Steve


    well, I won't hold my breath on any decent train infrastructure if the present Bus system is anything to go by, it's an unmitigated disaster, no waiting area that's suitable for bad weather, and no sensible indications of what buses are due at the stands. Hate the place, having used it on a number of occasions, and it's even worse if you're then stuck in a wet, windy and cold supposed shelter waiting for a bus that's up to 30 minutes late. Not a good way to impress visitors.

    Shore, if it was easy, everybody would be doin it.😁



  • Registered Users Posts: 168 ✭✭Kev11491


    well, I won't hold my breath on any decent train infrastructure if the present Bus system is anything to go by, it's an unmitigated disaster, no waiting area that's suitable for bad weather, and no sensible indications of what buses are due at the stands. Hate the place, having used it on a number of occasions, and it's even worse if you're then stuck in a wet, windy and cold supposed shelter waiting for a bus that's up to 30 minutes late. Not a good way to impress visitors.

    Well its possible that they will overhaul the entire place once a station has been put in, covered walkway that also connects to the bus stops.


  • Registered Users Posts: 23,500 ✭✭✭✭Kermit.de.frog


    I'm just a fan of doing things right, not half-right and corners cut.

    If we are going to spend €3bn on a metro from the airport we shouldn't penny pinch and make it as good an experience as possible for visitors to the country and those who use the airport.

    It's an opportunity for those visitors to have a great first impression of the country too.

    I hate the "it'll do" attitude.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,023 ✭✭✭Donegal Storm


    The circular building on this seems to be the metro station and looks to be connected by an airbridge to T2 (click for bigger version). Its from the old outdated masterplan but shows that they're at least considering it.

    For T1 an underground link would definitely make sense and if they're totally redoing the bus area it could be done fairly cheaply with cut & cover

    004148image.jpg


  • Registered Users Posts: 23,500 ✭✭✭✭Kermit.de.frog


    That doesn't solve T1 though unless everyone is shifted through T2 - passengers would still have to walk mostly outside presumably from T1.


  • Registered Users Posts: 10,522 ✭✭✭✭MJohnston


    That doesn't solve T1 though unless everyone is shifted through T2 - passengers would still have to walk mostly outside presumably from T1.

    You can walk between T1 and T2 both airside and landside without ever going outdoors.


  • Registered Users Posts: 23,500 ✭✭✭✭Kermit.de.frog


    MJohnston wrote: »
    You can walk between T1 and T2 both airside and landside without ever going outdoors.

    I don't think funneling everyone from T1 through the existing landside walkway between the terminals in a runner.

    Unless the link was widened and rebuilt with travelators.

    I can see how it could work as a main route to the metro with proper signage in T1.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 9,368 ✭✭✭Shedite27


    I'm just a fan of doing things right, not half-right and corners cut.

    If we are going to spend €3bn on a metro from the airport we shouldn't penny pinch and make it as good an experience as possible for visitors to the country and those who use the airport.

    It's an opportunity for those visitors to have a great first impression of the country too.

    I hate the "it'll do" attitude.
    You must be loaded. I do what I can afford to do


  • Registered Users Posts: 10,672 ✭✭✭✭Jamie2k9


    I don't think funneling everyone from T1 through the existing landside walkway between the terminals in a runner.

    Unless the link was widened and rebuilt with travelators.

    I can see how it could work as a main route to the metro with proper signage in T1.

    If you are prepared to walk off a Ryanair flight outside then I can’t see walking to the metro as a problem.

    Seriously I suspect nothing is decided yet. Its not a big deal if covered or not. Anyway Irish people love to whinge about the weather. daa shouldn't take that away :)


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,023 ✭✭✭Donegal Storm


    That doesn't solve T1 though unless everyone is shifted through T2 - passengers would still have to walk mostly outside presumably from T1.

    As I said if they're digging up the bus area anyway it'd presumably be relatively cheap to stick in a cut & cover tunnel. Looking at that image it'd be extremely messy having to cross all the bus areas

    The new masterplan mentions remodelling the T1 main entrance to segregate it from vehicle traffic so you'd hope they're thinking ahead.

    It's not a huge deal either way but as you say it'd be nice if they could do it right instead of the usual half arsed job


  • Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators Posts: 6,521 Mod ✭✭✭✭Irish Steve


    Jamie2k9 wrote: »
    If you are prepared to walk off a Ryanair flight outside then I can’t see walking to the metro as a problem.

    Seriously I suspect nothing is decided yet. Its not a big deal if covered or not. Anyway Irish people love to whinge about the weather. daa shouldn't take that away

    i don't have a choice about how I get on or off a Ryanair flight, fortunately, getting off is relatively easy, there's no queuing, boarding can be less than pleasant if there is a significant queue on the airstairs or at the back stairs.

    The problem with all of these possible options is that too many of the people making comments here are only looking at their own situation.

    It can be very different for a family with small children, or for an older passenger in a wheelchair, the present bus situation is completely non user friendly, and if the same mentality is being applied to the plan for the metro, it will be an unpleasant and possibly injurious experience.

    Not everyone can afford to use the alternatives, there are significant numbers using the bus and coach services that are in place now, and the direction of government policy is to encourage the use of public transport,, so as far as I am concerned, there needs to be a lot more attention paid to making sure that the services available are both acceptable and suitable for all ages and abilities.

    Anything less than that could well be a breach of a number of European regulations, but we won't go there yet, let's just see what the actual plan proposes.

    For me, having spent the last 30 years using Dublin Airport, I would have to say that I have been underwhelmed by the manner in which DAA and it's predecessor, Aer Rianta, have developed the facility. There have been too many issues where it would have been possible to do things in a better way, without significant cost issues, but those better ways have been ignored, and some of the decisions that have been made have left me wondering what the DAA are really trying to achieve.

    In that respect, I find it less than credible that there is massive money being put into building office accommodation at the centre of the airport, which can only serve to increase the pressures on an already overloaded road and parking system, at times when the pressures on the real purpose of the airport, facilitating travel, are already making it hard to access the place. Doing so before the metro is in place, and while the public transport systems are so primitive seems to me to be perpetuating the clear lack of focus of DAA, but then, for years, it was a standing joke that Aer Rianta were the best managers of Ireland's largest Pub, but little else.

    Shore, if it was easy, everybody would be doin it.😁



  • Registered Users Posts: 7,140 ✭✭✭plodder


    The circular building on this seems to be the metro station and looks to be connected by an airbridge to T2 (click for bigger version). Its from the old outdated masterplan but shows that they're at least considering it.
    That seems to be going through the hotel building that was planned and then scrapped.


  • Registered Users Posts: 23,500 ✭✭✭✭Kermit.de.frog


    Hotel is still planned and is out to tender.


  • Registered Users Posts: 10,672 ✭✭✭✭Jamie2k9


    Metro Airport Station:

    There will be two sections of tunnel and the first of these is a short one under Dublin Airport under the proposed ground transportation hub located at what is now the T2 surface car park. We’re developing the design of this station in consultation with the Dublin Airport Authority to minimise impact on the airport operation but maximise the benefits to passengers


  • Registered Users Posts: 9,254 ✭✭✭markpb


    Jamie2k9 wrote: »
    There will be two sections of tunnel and the first of these is a short one under Dublin Airport under the proposed ground transportation hub located at what is now the T2 surface car park. We’re developing the design of this station in consultation with the Dublin Airport Authority to minimise impact on the airport operation but maximise the benefits to passengers

    DAA vs TII/NTA - I can imagine who'll win that bun fight!


  • Registered Users Posts: 23,500 ✭✭✭✭Kermit.de.frog


    Apparently they are addressing the observation from interested parties that there should be underground passages to each terminal according to the docs.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 277 ✭✭J6P


    https://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/ireland/tds-vote-in-favour-of-noise-restrictions-at-dublin-airport-913538.html

    "The Government lost a Dáil vote on a Bill tonight which will now mean the permitted levels of noise from aircraft at the airport will be limited to stipulated levels.

    The amendment states that the competent authority shall direct the airport to ensure that average noise exposure is kept below 45 decibels.

    This will reduce to below 40 decibels at night."


    Given the fact that average noise levels around the airport are currently around 65dB, I think this is going to cause a huge headache for the Government and DAA once this bill eventually gets through the Dail.


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