Gave my manager 2 sick certs and she says there can't be days in between?

breadbin wrote: »

I hurt my foot on tuesday 4th and went to GP the next day. He gave me a sick cert until Friday 7th and told me to get an x-ray. Got an x-ray and bloods done that day too and the doctor in A&E asked me to come back today Monday 10th and she gave me a sick cert until thursday this week.



So I have 2 certs 5th to 7th inclusive and 10th to 13th inclusive. I dropped them into work today and manager says I need a cert for 8th and 9th also even though I wasn't down to work them days. Is that right? I have a cert to cover all the shifts I was supposed to be doing.


What should I have done in this instance then and what should I do now? I work in the HSE.

hi, unless you resumed for work on the 8th, you'll need the sick certs to cover the whole period. Pop into your gp, shouldn't be a problem.

Your manager's a moron. I cannot stand people like her.

You provided sick certs for the days you were off. This should be the end of it as you've proven you really were sick.

Do you have a company policy handbook or something like that you can refer to?

tinner777 wrote: »

Jesus lads, it is hse policy, the manager is only doing their job.

Even if it's policy, I disagree.

I'm a manager and I'm aware stuff like this demotivates staff, so I would force HR to accept it.

I always put staff happiness/motivation above whatever bull**** rules HR want to implement.

HR always hate me for this but my teams are always good performers, so I don't care.

There's no big deal here...

You go out sick, get better, then resume for work.
You don't go out sick, get better at the weekend and then go sick again???

The only way the two certs would be acceptable is if the op resumed form sick leave on the Friday and then went back out sick on the Monday.

It is hse policy.

I am also a manager, a manager who knows his staff are aware of the policies surrounding their employment

RobbieTheRobber wrote: »

So just to be clear you want an employee of the state to ignore official policy and can see no reason why this might be an issue?

I never said it's not an issue (in fact I think I made it clear it causes me issues) but I believe it's my job as a manager to protect my team from stupid HR policies which make no sense.

I have always done this and will continue to do this. It has always worked for me.

OSI wrote: »

You'd be screwing them over for illness benefit as well so. Very edgy.

I should clarify I've never worked for a company who require employees to claim illness benefit if they're off for a few days. For example, at one company I was out for a month due to surgery and I was paid as normal.

So my position is based on the assumption the employer is paying salaries as usual, even if you're off sick (like the OP) for a week.

Therefore if a HR person is being difficult, it would be because of some internal policy which is a tick the box affair.

Breadbin, it is hse policy. The same policy covers the many thousands of people working in the hse. Your manager is not being difficult despite what has been said above. Fix your sick notes and move on.
Hope your foot is better.

DearieMe wrote: »

It's not even a HR issue, it's a policy accross all the Public and Civil Service bodies in the country, but you want to blame someone in HR and the manager for doing their due diligence to follow procedures that have a legit reason for being there? It's their job to do this and just because you don't understand or know the reason for it doesn't make it wrong.

You misunderstood what I said. I was saying the opposite to what you think I said.

I'll clarify:

If a company pays wages as normal when someone is out sick, a sick cert is a tick the box affair. So if you have two sick certs covering every day you were off sick, the HR person is being difficult and frankly dim if she refuses to accept the certs.

tinner777 wrote: »

The hse does not pay illness benefit so sick certs are important. You have to claim it yourself. The op did not resume for work as he was sick, so his sickness began on the 4th and will finish on the 13th (if his foot is better) once he resumes.

The vast majority of new hse contracts will state that you are contracted over seven days even if your initial assignment is Monday to Friday.

Yes I can understand in the OPs situation he probably has no choice but to get his doctor to change the cert to cover the weekend.

I've had to go back to the doctor before and get a new cert to cover weekend days, I'm also in the PS. It's just the way they do things.

Dav010 wrote: »

Even though you may work Monday to Friday, you are employed for seven days a week, Saturday and Sunday are unpaid rest periods given by most employers (some employees may be off during the week) under the Organisation of working time Act. So, if you are absent from work from a Wednesday of one week to the Friday of the following week, this also includes the rest periods ie Saturday and Sunday so they must also be certified.

Employers are not required to pay you while you are on sick leave, many cannot afford to do a high percentage don’t. Your reaction seems a bit over the top for a policy which tends to be the norm here.

I don't want to go around in circles on this, so this will be the last time I repeat what I've previously said.

Example:

* You work Monday to Friday
* The company pays you when you're off sick (so no social welfare or illness benefit malarky to complicate things)
* You have sick certs for every day (Monday to Friday) you were not in the office
* HR refuse to accept these sick certs as proof you were ill

If this happened to someone on my team, I would not accept HRs request for sick certs for the Saturday and Sunday. Why? A) It's not necessary, just tick the box saying you got their sick certs and This sort of thing makes people dislike their job.

So when my team member is confused about HRs reaction, I would tell them to leave it with me. And I would sort it out.

Now, other people in this thread have since explained to me that the HSE contract stipulates how the sick stuff works (as you say yourself, you're technically employed on the Saturday and Sunday) and it seems there's no way around it, especially as it appears they don't really pay sick days, so there is social welfare or illness benefit messiness.

I don't know what else to say...

I'm a manager in the hse, and guess what, if I'm sick I have to do the same thing. If you're in any doubt google hse sick policy.

It really isn't a big deal.

They pay out for sick leave minus illness benefit that you have to claim yourself. But, that only kicks in after six days, so in essence the policy is doing the op a favour.

OMM 0000 wrote: »

No, I'm putting myself up against HR.

The employee has fulfilled their duty (provided sick notes for the days they missed). If HR cannot grasp this, HR is the problem, so I'm not going to let their stupidity stress out my team. So I deal with it.

My job as manager is to get the most out of my teams. I have no problem with company policies which make sense (e.g. get sick notes if you're off for a while) but I'm not going to let nonsense impact my teams.

What you may not understand/appreciate is my style works, is always supported by the decision makers (HR don't make the company money; my teams do), and HR have no real power, so I don't care what they think about me.

If you want to remain in middle management, be a tick the box manager. If you want to become a senior manager, you need to be aggressive and understand what your value is - earning the company money.

Again - I'm not talking about the HSE.

in the hse, wages and salaries dept hold the power, you don't supply the correct paperwork, they will not pay you.

tinner777 wrote: »

in the hse, wages and salaries dept hold the power, you don't supply the correct paperwork, they will not pay you.

Sure, I'm not talking about the HSE.

Do the HSE even care if their teams make money? I have no idea how it works.

The public sector isn't for me.

Op.
This is what you do.
Tell your manager you were medically fit for work for the weekend days and do not need a medical certificate to cover Saturday and Sunday.
You just so happened to not be rostered on Saturday and Sunday.
Unfortunately on the Monday you became unwell again, so your second cert covers the new illness period
Not unusual for this to happen with an ankle injury.
Think of a footballer who returns to the pitch on Saturday but then his ankle flares up again early Monday morning.

Hse are a joke BTW. Some basement dweller just causing hassle for you to tick a box on their audit.

STB. wrote: »

I think you may wish to read the legislation governing Sick Leave and Pay. Its driven by legislation and in the case of private companies, their own sick leave schemes. You should read your own schemes guideline and rules.

It is clear to me that you don't understand the concept of continuous sick leave.

Having been sick on a Friday, you do not suddenly become suitable for work to return when the "business" is closed on Saturday and then unsuitable for return to work on the day it reopens. No GP would certify anyone in such a way.

https://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/employment/employment_rights_and_conditions/leave_and_holidays/sick_leave.html

I think you quoted me by mistake. Did you mean to quote the post above you?

OMM 0000 wrote: »

I think you quoted me by mistake. Did you mean to quote the post above you?

No I was quoting you for a reason. Specifically. "but I believe it's my job as a manager to protect my team from stupid HR policies which make no sense"

You believe your job as a manager trumps the sick leave policies of your company ?

Do you understand the concept of continuous sick leave ? Can you think of one illness whereby a GP will certify you as being suitable to return to work on the day the business closes, and then change his mind and issue a second certificate to say you were unsuitable to return when the business reopens ? Which medical certificate was right ?