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Amenity placed outside house by neighbours

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    #32
    Edgware
    Registered Users Posts: 5,875 ✭✭✭Edgware


    mickdw wrote: »
    Local elections coming up..... these kind of things can get done overnight.
    No they cannot. If Council put it up they take responsibility for maintenance, insurance etc.
    They wont put it up in an area where vehicles have access.


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    #33
    AulWan
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,653 ✭✭✭AulWan


    Playing football on the green is fine. That's what greens are for.

    Putting a basketball hoop outside someone's driveway, causing them to have a constant issue with safe access to their driveway and a signficant noise disturbance is not.

    Is it so hard to have a little consideration for your neighbours' peaceful enjoyment of their homes? Honest to God.


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    #34
    mrmanire
    Registered Users Posts: 155 ✭✭mrmanire


    I wasn't expecting so many replies this quickly being honest so I'm going to try and reply to a few. Just to clarify that we did engage with the family already and even though we didn't come to an agreement, we did finish the discussion amicably. Just shocked and disappointed that it's reappeared after they stated they'd have a chat before they considered taking it out again. I'd imagine they have a 'it's terrible the kids can't play today in the nice weather mindset'. I'm convinced they think we are cranky neighbours and they are helping the area. Good intentions to be fair.
    Caranica wrote: »
    If the council has taken the estate in charge then the road is public and they've placed an obstruction on it? Can't be legal

    That's a key point I want to find out about. If it is, it would give the option of going to the council and if they fob us off, a solicitor's letter could be sent asking them why they aren't enforcing health and safety etc. That's a solution I'd rather not take. There is no managment company now. Estate is taken in by the council. Resident's Association collects fees to get the greens mowed.
    Toots wrote: »
    Speaking of insurance claims, can the kids access your garden? If so, I'd look at putting a gate or something in to stop it. All you need is little Jimmy from down the road falling in your drive when he comes in to get the basket ball, and next thing you know the parents are putting in a claim against you.

    They can't access the back garden. Out front we have a drive that can hold two cars and a small bit of grass. I'm not too worried about that being honest even though I am worried about a basketball (they can be quite heavy) denting a car. Some close calls while I've been here but nothing impacted while I've been home.
    PhoenixParker wrote: »
    Might be worth a chat with a local councillor about getting a hoop and suitable surface installed on the green.

    I was considering that. I would mean putting a surface on the green, may be more expensive than you'd think and you just don't see the council providing it for other estates about here. Not sure if it's cost or insurance. I can't see a Councillor getting that done despite all the platitutes we'd get at the door.
    seamus wrote: »
    Reverse into your driveway. Problem solved in terms of danger when you're leaving the house. Pull down the blinds when you're watching TV.

    There's fvck all you can do here except get a reputation as the crotchety old killjoy. Even if the neighbour was to bring it in at night and out in the morning, they'll do that every day all summer.

    You could also move the hoop and park your car in the turning circle. Very passive aggressive though

    I fully understand that some neighbours think we are a killjoy if we give out but the alternative of having a public play area outside my house (and nobody elses) every day for the whole Summer is worse.I shouldn't have to close my blinds and blinds aren't going to stop the noise. Basketballs (plural and most evenings 3 plus) make a lot more noise than a football and are constantly bounced. Blinds or no blinds, you can't watch TV or use front of the house. I do fully understand your point of view and admit it may be the one taken by a lot of neighbours but it is one that's easier to take when it's not outside your house.
    AulWan wrote: »
    Yet their actions are inhibiting how the OP lives his/her life? The OP states they can't use their front room or watch TV during the day because of the noise. That's simply not on.

    The neighbours have absolutely no right to plonk a basketball hoop outside that causes constant disturbance to the OP. Where do people get off thinking they can do stuff like this.

    Suit them better to get of their lazy asses and take their kids off out to somewhere there is a basketball court, if they want to play basketball, instead of annoying and inconveniencing their neighbour.

    OP, I'd ask for a copy of their insurance policy for the hoop that covers your car against damage, as you say it keeps getting banged with basketballs. Basketballs are heavy and could cause quite a dent.

    I agree with the above. I do want to sort this with the least hassle possible and without falling out with neighbours plus getting a reputation as cranky arses from everyone else. I get the impression if I raise the insurance worries with the residents' association, this will get sorted as my neighbour wouldn't want to keep the pretence of not doing the right and safe thing then. That's an option down the road though. I just want to see what else I can do and if I have a leg to stand on.

    Being honest, my wife is very upset. We would consider moving if this was to happen long term. That may seem dramatic but it's really impacting on our quality of life in this house. I absolutely love this area aside from this issue.


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    #35
    listermint
    Registered Users Posts: 33,670 ✭✭✭✭listermint


    Do you have kids ? I do realise this is kinda personal question. However its appropriate. Because i would garner your view would / will be entirely different if your own kids were involved.

    And what i mean is youd appreciate knowing where they are and keeping an eye on them when they are having harmless fun.

    Moving out of an area for this is extreme. But also think of the wider long term implications should you have kids come into the picture.


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    #36
    Del2005
    Registered Users Posts: 18,889 ✭✭✭✭Del2005


    ted1 wrote: »
    The mgmt company does. The same way to cover insurance for other public areas.

    As Ireland moves towards families living in apartments the councils realised that they needed to ensure there was amenities for young residents to play

    https://www.housing.gov.ie/sites/default/files/publications/files/design_standards_for_new_apartments_-_guidelines_for_planning_authorities_2018.pdf

    The insurance for a play ground is massive compared to general public liability. The development next to me had a playground installed by contractors in the wrong development, its been sitting rusting away as the complex can't afford the insurance. So how will these complexes with mandatory play areas get cover? The councils are now forcing people to pay massive management fees to cover the fact that they aren't supplying public amenities.


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    #37
    Tell me how
    Registered Users Posts: 21,519 ✭✭✭✭Tell me how


    mrmanire wrote: »
    I agree with the above. I do want to sort this with the least hassle possible and without falling out with neighbours plus getting a reputation as cranky arses from everyone else. I get the impression if I raise the insurance worries with the residents' association, this will get sorted as my neighbour wouldn't want to keep the pretence of not doing the right and safe thing then. That's an option down the road though. I just want to see what else I can do and if I have a leg to stand on.

    Being honest, my wife is very upset. We would consider moving if this was to happen long term. That may seem dramatic but it's really impacting on our quality of life in this house. I absolutely love this area aside from this issue.

    I'm a member of the residents association in my estate and if you came to me with this I'd say it was not for the association to get involved. If you have an issue with your neighbour, you resolve it.

    Why would an association tick off the parents of x number of children because one parent is being excessively sensitive?


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    #38
    mrmanire
    Registered Users Posts: 155 ✭✭mrmanire


    listermint wrote: »
    Do you have kids ? I do realise this is kinda personal question. However its appropriate. Because i would garner your view would / will be entirely different if your own kids were involved.

    And what i mean is youd appreciate knowing where they are and keeping an eye on them when they are having harmless fun.

    Moving out of an area for this is extreme. But also think of the wider long term implications should you have kids come into the picture.

    No kids yet but hopefully in the future. I do appreciate this would have an impact in the future if we stayed here.

    I also appreciate how if there was a hoop down the other end of the estate, they'd still rather having the kids outside. I get that and I get that how they would like to see their kids outside their house.

    The conflict is that the fun isn't harmless and their is a lot more noise pollution than you'd expect. This isn't me being a curtain twitching kill joy. Genuinely, the rooms in the front of the house aren't useable with it there. I'm not exageratting.

    I do understand implications for relationships here and also for when we have our own kids but the alternative of just giving in and leaving it there isn't right either. Just trying to find a solution to remove it with as little drama as possible. We tried to discuss and come to a half way point but the neighbours have ignored that now.


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    #39
    AulWan
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,653 ✭✭✭AulWan


    listermint wrote: »
    Do you have kids ? I do realise this is kinda personal question. However its appropriate. Because i would garner your view would / will be entirely different if your own kids were involved.

    Why would you assume that? I have kids and I would not agree with the neighbours' actions at all. Plus its not harmless fun when it is causing someone else a constant disturbance.

    No wonder there are so many precious little Johnnys running around these days when they are obviously not learning to have consideration for other people in their own homes from their parents.


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    #40
    mrmanire
    Registered Users Posts: 155 ✭✭mrmanire


    Tell me how wrote: »
    I'm a member of the residents association in my estate and if you came to me with this I'd say it was not for the association to get involved. If you have an issue with your neighbour, you resolve it.

    Why would an association tick off the parents of x number of children because one parent is being excessively sensitive?

    I'd fully expect that response from the association. The other neighbour is involved in it. The kids play on the green possibly only a meter or two further away again and make lots of noise and this is no issue.

    If you couldn't hear your TV for eight hours every day for a whole Summer in your home; would you think having an issue with that is 'excessively sensitive'. I've no issue with kids playing and making noise. I love to see this but there is a distinction between usual kids' noise and essentially a basket ball hoop 5 meters from your front door. It's far louder than you'd imagine.

    I completely get your sentiment but you're not sitting listening to what essentially sounds like a drum kit eight hours a day. If there was an accomodation and it was an hour a day (they'd have to pull and out the hoop) or one the day a week. That's fine. Every day it's not pouring rain, not so much.


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    #41
    AulWan
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,653 ✭✭✭AulWan


    Tell me how wrote: »
    I'm a member of the residents association in my estate and if you came to me with this I'd say it was not for the association to get involved. If you have an issue with your neighbour, you resolve it.

    Why would an association tick off the parents of x number of children because one parent is being excessively sensitive?

    No obvious bias there.

    As far as I'm aware, Residents Associations are supposed to represent all their residents, not just those they agree with, and fob off the rest.

    Its easy to be blase and label the OP as being "excessively sensitive" when its not happening outside your door.


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    #42
    Busi_Girl08
    Registered Users Posts: 17,764 ✭✭✭✭Busi_Girl08


    Probably not going to make a massive different, but would you consider bringing over the neighbours in question to your house and have them in the sitting room during 'peak' noise time? They might not realise just how bad it is.


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    #43
    mrmanire
    Registered Users Posts: 155 ✭✭mrmanire


    I just attached a little map there. Can't believe I've done that! To the far left is a stream (fully barriered off) but it stops the use of the hoop at end of the cul-de-sac as the wall would be straight into the water which is fair enough.


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    #44
    mrmanire
    Registered Users Posts: 155 ✭✭mrmanire


    Busi_Girl08 wrote: »
    Probably not going to make a massive different, but would you consider bringing over the neighbours in question to your house and have them in the sitting room during 'peak' noise time? They might not realise just how bad it is.

    We already were in their house. They've not been over. They did agree that there is a lot of noise which was surprising. I didn't expect them to admit. However, their kids play basketball with a local club so they need it there to practice apparently. That and the benefit to the community and being able to see the kids there kind of supercedes the noise pollution in their view.


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    #45
    Tell me how
    Registered Users Posts: 21,519 ✭✭✭✭Tell me how


    AulWan wrote: »
    No obvious bias there.

    As far as I'm aware, Residents Associations are supposed to represent all their residents, not just those they agree with, and fob off the rest.

    Its easy to be blase and label the OP as being "excessively sensitive" when its not happening outside your door.

    Yes, and I would expect the majority of residents are happy to see the children of the estate being able to play outside.


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    #46
    mrmanire
    Registered Users Posts: 155 ✭✭mrmanire


    Tell me how wrote: »
    Yes, and I would expect the majority of residents are happy to see the children of the estate being able to play outside.

    Indeed they are but it's not infringing on the comfort in their homes. Grand when it's down outside someone else's house.


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    #47
    beauf
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,651 ✭✭✭✭beauf


    Tell me how wrote: »
    Yes, and I would expect the majority of residents are happy to see the children of the estate being able to play outside.

    Especially if it's outside someone else's house....


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    #48
    Censored11
    Closed Accounts Posts: 43 ✭Censored11


    I was going to say that interest in Basketball comes & goes, and this wont be long term.
    You've mentioned there though that their kids are in a Basketball club so I'm afraid you just got a bad hand with the people living beside you and your stuck with "bounce bounce bounce" banging through your head, especially coming in to the summer.
    Its like families that have kids that are into playing the drums and other annoying sh!t.
    Thats their thing.
    Neighbours are fooked!
    Suck it up and learn to accept this is how things are, or move or carry the hoop off in the dark of night.
    Sorry for your situation.


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    #49
    Toots
    Administrators, Business & Finance Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 16,905 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭Toots


    If their kids need it to practice, why can't they put it in their back garden? I certainly wouldn't expect my kids to be able to use the public road as a basketball court, and just plonk a hoop out there. Especially if a neighbour had knocked in to say it was causing a disturbance.

    Unpleasant as it may be, I think you need to either call in again or else write to them and see can ye come to some solution.

    Citizens Info had this leaflet, which may be useful, but probably won't do much to improve neighbourly relations http://www.flac.ie/download/pdf/neighbour_disputes.pdf


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    #50
    Tell me how
    Registered Users Posts: 21,519 ✭✭✭✭Tell me how


    mrmanire wrote: »
    Indeed they are but it's not infringing on the comfort in their homes. Grand when it's down outside someone else's house.

    But something else may have been infringing on some of them last week or will be next week. Things change, something else will take the childrens attention, they'll move on to something else most likely.

    There's an old lady who lives on her own in our estate, she always helps with clean up and says it's nice to have the place looking well and to be safe for children to play there. She says she loves the sound of children playing, it makes her feel good.

    Yes, you feel it is an inconvenience, but it is likely the majority in the estate like the idea of a community such as that.


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    #51
    mrmanire
    Registered Users Posts: 155 ✭✭mrmanire


    Toots wrote: »
    If their kids need it to practice, why can't they put it in their back garden? I certainly wouldn't expect my kids to be able to use the public road as a basketball court, and just plonk a hoop out there. Especially if a neighbour had knocked in to say it was causing a disturbance.

    Unpleasant as it may be, I think you need to either call in again or else write to them and see can ye come to some solution.

    Citizens Info had this leaflet, which may be useful, but probably won't do much to improve neighbourly relations http://www.flac.ie/download/pdf/neighbour_disputes.pdf

    The basketball hoop has been in their garden for the last two months (it went into a shed during the storms in the winter). You can still hear the basketball but the noise isn't so bad as the dividing wall and proximity to their house soaks up most of the noise. Less kids also. Our main living areas are to the front so don't really mind the limited noise. If they were playing it in their back garden and I was out reading a book in mine; I'd suck it up. They are well entitled to use their garden as they wish.

    Their back garden doesn't have enough space to play a game though. It's only good for practicing shots. You can have a full 4 on 4 game out the front now. We have mentioned we have zero issue with noise in back garden. Doesn't impact as much and it's their property.

    I think this may require talking to them again but I worry about the next steps where they stone wall us. Any half way point between would mean the hoop being taken in and out regularly and they won't be bothered doing this due to the size. Once it's in a public area, everyone can use it so they can't restrict it's usage when it's in the bay. This leaves an unforunate position where it's either remove it full stop or leave it full terms as they won't compromise on time restricting it.


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    #52
    listermint
    Registered Users Posts: 33,670 ✭✭✭✭listermint


    AulWan wrote: »
    Why would you assume that? I have kids and I would not agree with the neighbours' actions at all. Plus its not harmless fun when it is causing someone else a constant disturbance.

    No wonder there are so many precious little Johnnys running around these days when they are obviously not learning to have consideration for other people in their own homes from their parents.

    Why would i assume it, because its natural assumption. If their kids were out there playing the same game with the other kids. This thread wouldnt exist.

    And enough guff about precious little johnnys and whatever your having yourself.

    I was making a fair point to the poster that, he loves the area. and moving out for something like this seems a tad extreme. And that his thought process would most likely be different if their was kids of his own mixed in here.


    Id also question his window supplier. Because this level of noise coming through would indicate that id be putting window renovations on the agenda. I got new ones last year myself and the house is near silent.


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    #53
    strandroad
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,676 ✭✭✭strandroad


    Tell me how wrote: »
    There's an old lady who lives on her own in our estate, she always helps with clean up and says it's nice to have the place looking well and to be safe for children to play there. She says she loves the sound of children playing, it makes her feel good.

    Yes, you feel it is an inconvenience, but it is likely the majority in the estate like the idea of a community such as that.

    I'm fronting onto the estate green and I don't mind the children playing there at all, it is indeed a nice sight and they choose different activities on different days, and play all over the green. But to have a basket court there every day is a whole new ball game (sorry!). It must be very noisy indeed, I think the OP is a saint if they are still so polite about it.


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    #54
    Bazzy
    Registered Users Posts: 1,484 ✭✭✭Bazzy


    If it was me i'd move the hoop.

    Buy a very cheap car and park it where the hoop was.


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    #55
    matrim
    Registered Users Posts: 7,517 ✭✭✭matrim


    Could you start parking your car in the turnabout area on the days you want some peace and quiet?


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    #56
    iamwhoiam
    Registered Users Posts: 16,074 ✭✭✭✭iamwhoiam


    listermint wrote: »
    Why would i assume it, because its natural assumption. If their kids were out there playing the same game with the other kids. This thread wouldnt exist.

    And enough guff about precious little johnnys and whatever your having yourself.

    I was making a fair point to the poster that, he loves the area. and moving out for something like this seems a tad extreme. And that his thought process would most likely be different if their was kids of his own mixed in here.


    Id also question his window supplier. Because this level of noise coming through would indicate that id be putting window renovations on the agenda. I got new ones last year myself and the house is near silent.

    I have new high quality double glazed windows and I most certainly can hear the thump thump thump of a basketball outside . Our new neighbour put one up in their front garden and it attracts the kids and yes it is very annoying .
    My own kids played outside many moons ago and so I tolerate it . It still annoys though .


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    #57
    ted1
    Registered Users Posts: 23,291 ✭✭✭✭ted1


    mrmanire wrote: »
    I just attached a little map there. Can't believe I've done that! To the far left is a stream (fully barriered off) but it stops the use of the hoop at end of the cul-de-sac as the wall would be straight into the water which is fair enough.

    Seems like a good location for it


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    #58
    Larbre34
    Registered Users Posts: 23,827 ✭✭✭✭Larbre34


    This exact thing happened on our street. It didnt obstruct our cars but the basketball pounding away for 10 hours a day in the summer (especially until 11pm when younglings were trying to sleep) finally finished me. I didnt know from where it came, so on my way out to the gym one sunny morning at about 5.30am i dismantled the hoop and stand, put them in the car and binned them at the recycling centre on my way home from work.


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    #59
    strandroad
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,676 ✭✭✭strandroad


    mrmanire wrote: »
    I just attached a little map there. Can't believe I've done that! To the far left is a stream (fully barriered off) but it stops the use of the hoop at end of the cul-de-sac as the wall would be straight into the water which is fair enough.

    They can put a ball stop netting in place, raised between two poles, to prevent that. It's not even expensive.

    Edited to add, seriously OP I would do just that in your situation now I've seen the map. Go tell them politely as it seems to be your style that you have not agreed to have the hoop out again and that they have a week to take it to their cul the sac with the netting or they'll start finding it in their driveway every time they try again. They should be delighted to be able to keep an eye on the kids so closely.


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    #60
    AulWan
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,653 ✭✭✭AulWan


    listermint wrote: »
    Why would i assume it, because its natural assumption.


    Its a natural assumption to presume that your kids disturbing your neighbours all day every day is okay, because they are kids?

    Alrighty then.

    Sorry, OP but from experience, this is the kind of attitude you're facing. Its seems nowadays your neighbours kids have more rights then you do, and other parents expect you to just put up with their kids.

    Its clear the majority of the posters have never actually had to live with a situation like this, I have and eventually it was a factor in my moving.

    If it were me, I'd go out and remove the hoop into the neighbours driveway the minute he puts it out. Stop being nice about it.


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    #61
    listermint
    Registered Users Posts: 33,670 ✭✭✭✭listermint


    AulWan wrote: »
    Its a natural assumption to presume that your kids disturbing your neighbours all day every day is okay, because they are kids?

    Alrighty then.

    Sorry, OP but from experience, this is the kind of attitude you're facing. Its seems nowadays your neighbours kids have more rights then you do, and other parents expect you to just put up with their kids.

    Its clear the majority of the posters have never actually had to live with a situation like this, I have and eventually it was a factor in my moving.

    If it were me, I'd go out and remove the hoop into the neighbours driveway the minute he puts it out. Stop being nice about it.

    No i didn't say that . I said it's natural assumption that he would think differently. Don't put words in my mouth good lad.


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