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chance of a lifetime "King's Ametyst"

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  • Registered Users Posts: 680 ✭✭✭copper12


    Evening all
    I have been working away on the bow section; and replacing the joist’ some’ were in very good nick, so reused them; others’ I had to replace' there are a lot of intricate cuts; and since I have no idea ;what I am doing:D, it takes a while. test fit. take another bit of. fit again’ you know yourself; then the last cut you bevel it the wrong way; and you have to start again:mad:. just as well the tablets are working :eek:
    The pictures tell the storey


  • Registered Users Posts: 680 ✭✭✭copper12


    :D


  • Registered Users Posts: 680 ✭✭✭copper12


    Evening all
    Took the cover off for the first time since I got her
    Almost ready to start the decking
    I am hoping that I wont have to strip the rear cabin; hopefully I can do what repairs that are needed’ without having to take it apart; time will tell


  • Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 6,320 Mod ✭✭✭✭fergal.b


    She is looking great and you can really get to see the scale of what you have taken on and just about concord, I admire you for sticking at it where many would given up and appreciate you posting your updates. Keep her lit :)


    309777.jpg


  • Registered Users Posts: 218 ✭✭kfod


    you are really getting stuck into her and getting through the work, it's great to see and when you have her finished and have the wind pulling in her sails it will be the best feeling ever.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 680 ✭✭✭copper12


    Kfod thanks looking forward to it
    I was looking a t Teal she’s looking well
    I enjoyed the video’ you would not think the sea’ could look so calm’ around our coast
    If you or Fergal’ have anything left over from your rebuild’ and you think it n may be of some use to me; I would take off your hands for a price
    ;)


  • Registered Users Posts: 680 ✭✭✭copper12


    ment to say adrian


  • Registered Users Posts: 218 ✭✭kfod


    Cheers Copper12, it was amazingly calm that day and we were still moving along at 3 knots all sail set :)

    There isn't much of anything left over after the build really, if anything we are a slightly short of bits to finish the interior!


  • Registered Users Posts: 680 ✭✭✭copper12


    Evening all
    I have been working on a bulkhead; below where the mast will be stepped
    The old one was made up of several bits and pieces; most likely because of some repairs done over the years i have made up the cross members in oak;
    There still a bit of tidying up to do


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,957 ✭✭✭miss no stars


    fergal.b wrote: »
    She is looking great and you can really get to see the scale of what you have taken on and just about concord, I admire you for sticking at it where many would given up and appreciate you posting your updates. Keep her lit :)


    Incredible to compare that with this:

    275959.JPG

    Out of interest, where did you get her and where was she sailed?


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  • Registered Users Posts: 680 ✭✭✭copper12


    The information I have so far; is that she was built in Poland 1966.
    Spent time in England until mid seventies.
    Then Dublin Howth yacht club used for class 111 raising
    Then on to Galway for the last fifteen years
    She was held together by thirty layers of paint.:rolleyes:
    As can be seen from previous post. she must have broke her moorings; and ran aground, jugging by the damaged that I have repaired
    But sure it’s like getting new leather soles; on old shoes, as good as new, but much more comfortable :p
    Now it resides in my backyard; most likely for another year
    Then who knows :D
    I have removed all the decking
    I was hoping to getaway with the rear hatch
    How ever; there’s a lot of rot there’ at least on the starboard side’ I might be able to slip in a panel there
    Having worked on removing the decking’ it seems ’ I may be able to remove the cabin’ in one piece’ depending on how the rudder components come apart and if I will have enough play; as I will be replacing the 5mm ply with 9mm


  • Registered Users Posts: 680 ✭✭✭copper12


    Evening all
    Making use of the long days; getting a bit done, removed the transom, there was a lot of rot there,
    No real problems removing bit
    Instead of trying to screw out the screws; I cut between the plank and the rib; then poped out the head of the screw
    I don’t think I will be able to remove the rear cabin; because of the rudder
    The area around the cabin is fairly good; and I would probable do more damage than good trying to force it
    So I will work around it’ clean up’ recaulkd’ and after a dozen coats of varnish’ it should be good
    The roof of the cabin is mahogany strips’ so I will be ably to do any repairs’ with what I have left over from the planking’ only two boards are in need of repair’ so scarfed in one, I will do the other once this one sets
    Here’s a few photos


  • Registered Users Posts: 680 ✭✭✭copper12


    a few more


  • Registered Users Posts: 680 ✭✭✭copper12


    Evening all
    What with the great weather I have been getting a bit done
    I also have a fine farmers’ tan:D
    Removed the transom’ and have laminated a few pieces’ from some left over teak
    I am trying to make use of every scrap of wood
    So over the next few days, I hope to finish at least the transom’ and then on to the decking
    So after a hard day nothing better than a Heineken and the first aid kit how bad:cool:


  • Registered Users Posts: 680 ✭✭✭copper12


    Fergal remember that link you gave me back in December ;)
    Well I have made use of it’ for the transom
    Anyone else have anymore tips’ or links’ I would be grateful
    I will need all the attachments for a wooden mast; I am not even sure what I am looking for’ :confused:so if you have any experience with wooden mast’ then pleas let me know


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,292 ✭✭✭BrensBenz


    copper12 wrote: »
    I will need all the attachments for a wooden mast; I am not even sure what I am looking for’ :confused:so if you have any experience with wooden mast’ then pleas let me know

    I've made a few wooden masts in my day, mostly for racing dinghies, some legal, others (ahem) not quite legal. I've also renovated a Folkboat mast. Are you repairing, renovating or replacing your mast?

    If you're only replacing hardware, you should try to gather as much information, dimensions and locations of the original fittings as you can. My maths isn't up to calculating the stresses experienced by a mast so, when I was given a stripped mast to fix up, I had to photograph and take measurements from the mast in a similar boat and copy it. Not very scientific but it's still standing!


  • Registered Users Posts: 680 ✭✭✭copper12


    Brensbenz thanks’ for getting back so quick
    I will be starting from scratch
    I have a few photos of the original mast; taken from a distance’ and what I have gathered from the net’
    I have the rolling boom’ and the mast step’ that all
    From what I know so far’ it will measure 39ft and 5”at the base
    I am hoping to rig it so that I can sail it’ single handed from the cockpit’
    So no winches on the mast; well that the plan


  • Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 6,320 Mod ✭✭✭✭fergal.b


    Very nice.

    311826.jpg


  • Registered Users Posts: 26 tinski07


    I've only made solid mast and they were both for gaff rigs so If your making a hollow one you'll find what you need online, I glued mine with Prefere 40/50 glue, The replacement for Aerodux.
    Swindon aircraft company in the UK are happy to ship it here.
    I assume she is bermudian anyway so you'll need a sail track, gooseneck fittings, Some little brackets for the spreaders, the piece on the top that the shrouds to attach to and probably a sheeve in the masthead for you main halyard and block for your topping lift.
    You'll probably need some attachment near the base of the mast for the kicking strap.
    All you'll need to control it from the cockpit are some deck mounted blocks to run the lines aft to your winches, perhaps some fair leads with built in cam cleats to make life easier.
    Not sure if thats of any help to ya.


  • Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 6,320 Mod ✭✭✭✭fergal.b


    I know a few of the guys on Glen-l make masts with a bird mouth edge on one side of the plank, here is a video of the kind I mean https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rcYhO8jKxvI It would be easy to set up a router or saw to cut them out.

    index.php?PHPSESSID=64bb40e673784d9ee37fd07db8f9e92e&action=dlattach;topic=2972.0;attach=1622;image
    Some good info on it here. http://www.duckworksmagazine.com/04/s/articles/birdsmouth/index.cfm and on a Bi- Conical http://api.ning.com/files/uNv-XzwOEjf8i6SpVYKq91W-mUvmSlUkx0sGL0irZ6bKZEqDcfkdm4gSuppYtLg6R6W7r9yQ-gIpyhaMkEcGG0*3uf5*7JaQ/Buildingoftwo10mwoodfreemastsmadewith12stringersV01.pdf







    .


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  • Registered Users Posts: 680 ✭✭✭copper12


    Thanks lads I really appreciate the advice
    Tinski your advise is exactly what I need if you could dray it out it would be great
    I will try and post a photo that t was taken many years ago tinski you might be able to tell me what I need in order to build it
    Fergal I have made a trial piece of birds mouth I will more than likely go that way 8 sided
    Myself and lidli or aldi :rolleyes: I get mixed up witch is witch ‘were able to lift the rear hatch so I can run the ply under there was enough play in the rudder to get it to lift a half inch or so:)


  • Registered Users Posts: 680 ✭✭✭copper12


    Here’s a few pictures of here’s in her prime
    Also the trial birds mouth


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 5,108 ✭✭✭pedroeibar1


    To add to what Tinski has posted –
    She is cutter-rigged with an inner and an outer forestay. In those cases the inner often is demountable at deck level so that it can be brought back to the mast to be kept out of the way. Also looks as if she had twin backstays, possibly low down but then joining further up to form a single backstay (good because it spreads the load on the transom.)

    Mainsail track - usually an alloy of bronze on older boats, essentially a flat length of metal with lips forming a groove into which the sliders on the luff and foot of the main fit to allow it to be raised /lowered. Screwed at about 6 inch centres. For halyards I'd use wire spliced to rope, that way there is more room inside the mast. Don't forget space for electrics (e.g. steaming light.)

    Boom gooseneck fitting – I’d go for a basic fitting and would not bother with roller reefing; slab reefing is more effective because it gives a better shape to the sail and does not cause kicking-strap problems.

    Brackets for spreaders - not really load-bearing, they mainly just keep the spreaders in place.

    She has at least inner and outer shrouds, the inners probably meeting the mast just below the crosstrees. Possibly two outers?

    I would be inclined to have a couple of sheaves, one for main halyard, one for jib. The block for the topping lift need not be too strong as it carries only the weight of the boom. Consider if you will fly a spinnaker, you will need a block for that also. And one for the jib. Are you going to consider a furling jib?

    One good winch centrally mounted ahead of the cockpit on the cabintop with a row of jam-cleats in front of it and all halyards leading though it should work. Be very careful in getting the angles correct where the halyards come out of the mast.

    I know the ‘birds mouth’ is just a model but I’d source the closest-grained timber I could find for the mast.

    Is there any way you could get to a yacht club/marina to have a really good look at some older boats to see this stuff in real life? Most masts are ‘up’ at this stage, but come September many will be on the flat and readily inspectable.

    Below is a modern masthead on a small sloop, showing (typically) a bar through the top to carry pins and sheaves for forestay, backstay, halyards, etc. Not exactly what you are looking for but it should give you an idea...
    Great to see the progress you are making, keep up the good work.:)


  • Registered Users Posts: 680 ✭✭✭copper12


    Thanks lads it will take a while for this information to sink in
    Here’s a few details of the king ametyst some off witch I can grasp the rest is lost in translation:confused:


  • Registered Users Posts: 680 ✭✭✭copper12


    Evening all
    I put a bit of ply on the e rear decking area’ what with the weather about to change
    I would have to take my tools of the boat at least this way I can leave them there
    I will have to remove the ply later’ as it’s not sitting right
    I also started fitting a piece of 2x1 oak; the front cabin starts from this up; not easy trying to bend oak
    It will take a few days to fit’ I have to scarf in a couple of joints as well’ but I’m waiting on some resorcinol glue
    I know this is a big ask; if someone with experience of building mast’ or even a knowledge’ of the fittings required’ if they could let me know what I need ‘I can research and figure out the rest
    Attached is the photo of the fitting that attaches to the gooseneck is there anyone familiar with this type of fitting
    I hope to rig her the way she; was two rolling furlows and main mast
    Any little bit of information would be appreciated


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,292 ✭✭✭BrensBenz


    copper12 wrote: »
    Attached is the photo of the fitting that attaches to the gooseneck is there anyone familiar with this type of fitting
    I hope to rig her the way she; was two rolling furlows and main mast
    Any little bit of information would be appreciated

    Fair dues, lads - I haven't read them all but there's great information in earlier posts. As I'm in the presence of geniuses, feel free to ignore any or all of the following but remember, if you ask ten people how to make a mast, you'll get ten different answers......and they will all be right:

    The gooseneck fitting is large but not an uncommon arrangement. But the photos of the gooseneck fitting are slightly confusing! I'm guessing that the "tongue" (the long piece that fits into a track on the mast) is rotated 90degress in the first shot? The tongue should be vertical, slide up and down a track on the mast and have a locking mechanism. Mine locks with a simple bolt - I managed to "acquire" and attach a bakelite knob to the bolthead to make it more user friendly but your sail area is much larger than mine so probably better to look at a downhaul.
    • As far as material to make a mast, my all-time preference is silver spruce - light, strong, easy to work and ages beautifully - but it's difficult to get, particularly in the lengths you would need. Good alternatives are douglas fir, sitka spruce, etc.
    • I also prefer simple construction - the Folkboat mast I worked on was both a complex work of art (when new) and a complex pain in the ass (when used!)
    • I usually laminate "full size", that is, if max diameter, including luff track, is 4", I laminate pieces to form a 4" square "plank", find its natural bend and then decide "which way is up" and the taper depending on the location of that natural bend.
    • I also prefer to laminate fore to aft more than side to side. This allows forward to aft bending (and sail shaping) while reducing side to side bending and the work required by shrouds / stays and spreaders.
    • And I know this is odd but I prefer the sweat from pushing traditional tools along a mast rather than simply guiding power tools!

    There are lots of decisions you need to make first, e.g.:
    • Is the mast to be hollow, with halyards, wiring, etc, inside?
    • Is the luff track to be screwed on or worked into the mast, similar to the foot track shown in the photo of the boom? My racing head says "built-in". An external track is leaky but it shows you where the problem is and eliminates the fun and games when timber swells!
    • Do you like scarfing? How many scarfs could you tolerate?
    • You say 5" diameter at the butt. What diameter and section at the head?
    • Will your mast have a taper and, if yes, starting from where? Gooseneck? Spreaders?


  • Registered Users Posts: 680 ✭✭✭copper12


    Evening all
    Finished fitting the cabin side carlings; to the port side’ see I new id’e pick it up as I went along:)
    Up to now I have gotten away without a steam box; so I came up with a idea; :eek:to get the bend in 1” oak
    The pictures tell the story; wet rag’ tinfoil’ and a heat gun. :cool:


  • Registered Users Posts: 680 ✭✭✭copper12


    Brenzbenz thanks for the information
    Here’s a few more photo’s of the boom fittings
    I will most likely rebuild the boom and try and use the original fittings
    I will most likely go with pedroeibar1 advise and keep it simple for the main sail

    There are lots of decisions you need to make first, e.g.:
    Is the mast to be hollow, with halyards, wiring, etc, inside?
    Outside halyard inside wiring

    Is the luff track to be screwed on or worked into the mast, similar to the foot track shown in the photo of the boom?
    Most likely outside track
    Do you like scarfing? How many scarfs could you tolerate?
    I’m getting the hang of it now

    You say 5" diameter at the butt. What diameter and section at the head?
    ? I need to find out about that

    Will your mast have a taper and, if yes, starting from where?
    Just after the gooseneck there’s not much of a taper


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 5,108 ✭✭✭pedroeibar1


    First of all I’ve never built a mast, just looked at lots of them on various boats down the years, so I’m no construction expert.

    Groove in boom/mast. – there are two types, one which allows the boltrope on the sail to be fed through it, the other takes ‘slug sliders’ that fit into the groove and are attached to the luff or foot. The former IMO is OK for the foot, but if you are going to recess the luff I would use slugs. When the sail is fed into the groove it inevitably is on racing yachts as it give a marginally better airflow over the leading edge of the sail.

    Track - screwed on externally, but the back of the mast could be routed to recess it. Important to have as few joints as possible to prevent sliders from catching. Obviously screwed as short centres and countersunk. Make sure that the screws and the track are the same metal (avoid electrolysis.)

    Inside/outside halyards – on an old boat I sailed on as a kid had a hollow mast and the halyards went up inside it. They were SS wire spliced to rope – the wire gave strength and did not take up much room inside the mast. If you are going to spend time sleeping aboard having the halyards inside is much quieter, otherwise you will have to tie them out.

    Scarfing – instinct tells me that you should avoid it, as I feel it would be a weak point. I’d use different lengths of timber to minimise weak-point joints.

    Are you near any of the bigger yacht clubs where a boatman could give you a look at a few examples?


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  • Registered Users Posts: 680 ✭✭✭copper12


    Pedroeibar1 thanks for the reply
    What you say about having the halyard in side the mast’ makes sense. epically as I intend to sleep onboard a lot
    Modern ropes; are a lot thinner than in the past’ so it should be to difficult the achieve
    Although her sails were lost’ when than mast went overboard; I did get some of her old sails’ I will have to dig them out and take some photos’ maybe you can tell from them; how she was setup
    I will look into putting a grove in the mast
    Thanks again for the advice’ they are copied and studied with great care’ already, I am getting a better understanding of what I want to achieve


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