Random Running Questions

menoscemo · 23-06-2014 11:18am

rob w wrote: »

OK Thanks. Was thinking about buying a new brand though. I've never used the same make & model twice in a row, so I've always had a bit of a 'breaking in' period with new pairs!:o

If buying a new brand that's a different story. You'll want to try them out a few times to make sure that:
a) you like them.
b) they fit well and don't cause any chafing or injuries.
But that's totally different to 'breaking them in'.

menoscemo · 23-06-2014 11:20am

RayCun wrote: »

my usual easy run shoes (Brooks adrenaline) usually take a few wears to get comfy in so I wouldn't do a long run in them straight away

That's because you're used to running in shoes that have their heels bashed in. It takes you a few runs to bash the heels in on the new ones

RayCun · 23-06-2014 11:23am

menoscemo wrote: »

That's because you're used to running in shoes that have their heels bashed in. It takes you a few runs to bash the heels in on the new ones

that was back when I was a road jogger. I'm a gazelle-like track athlete now. :cool: Next time you see me at a parkrun I'll be wearing sprinter shorts and shades, and complaining that other people are standing in my lane

Krusty_Clown · 23-06-2014 12:00pm

davedanon wrote: »

I'd agree with Meno in general. Running shoes can invariably be worn straight out of the box without any problems, but there's always the slight chance that a new pair of shoes will chafe somewhere and cause a blister. I'd run in them at least once just to check that there are no such issues.

+1. Why risk a marathon you've trained for 18 weeks for, by throwing on a brand new pair of shoes the day of the race? Would you try a new gel on the day? Eat something completely different for breakfast (like kippers)? Change your stride pattern?

You don't need to run 100 miles in them, but if you have them already, then why wouldn't you run 100 miles in them before the marathon? I did buy a pair of shoes for NYC marathon the day before the race, and wore them for the run, but that was a tourist marathon (as I'd hit my target a few weeks earlier). Still got blisters to beat the band. So you don't need to break them in, but surely only a foolish person wouldn't run a few miles in them beforehand?

davedanon · 23-06-2014 12:17pm

Krusty_Clown wrote: »

+1. Why risk a marathon you've trained for 18 weeks for, by throwing on a brand new pair of shoes the day of the race? Would you try a new gel on the day? Eat something completely different for breakfast (like kippers)? Change your stride pattern?

You don't need to run 100 miles in them, but if you have them already, then why wouldn't you run 100 miles in them before the marathon? I did buy a pair of shoes for NYC marathon the day before the race, and wore them for the run, but that was a tourist marathon (as I'd hit my target a few weeks earlier). Still got blisters to beat the band. So you don't need to break them in, but surely only a foolish person wouldn't run a few miles in them beforehand?

mmm......kippers. True. It's not a good idea to change anything in the run up to a marathon. Even a new pair of shorts can cause an unexpected chafing problem. I had a situation just before Derry, when a trusty old pair of
ASICS gel volts, which I had decided to wear for Derry itself, suddenly gave me a heel blister on a long run, which lead me eventually to running in fairly new Sauconys. I had run in them a few times though, so I was fairly confident I wouldn't have any problems.

rob w · 23-06-2014 1:41pm

Krusty_Clown wrote: »

+1. Why risk a marathon you've trained for 18 weeks for, by throwing on a brand new pair of shoes the day of the race? Would you try a new gel on the day? Eat something completely different for breakfast (like kippers)? Change your stride pattern?

You don't need to run 100 miles in them, but if you have them already, then why wouldn't you run 100 miles in them before the marathon? I did buy a pair of shoes for NYC marathon the day before the race, and wore them for the run, but that was a tourist marathon (as I'd hit my target a few weeks earlier). Still got blisters to beat the band. So you don't need to break them in, but surely only a foolish person wouldn't run a few miles in them beforehand?

I wouldn't dream of buying a new pair the day before the race. I only asked the question of how many miles would be good to do before wearing them in a Marathon as I am starting my training block now, and probably wont be picking up a new pair of runners for around 6 weeks time!!

Loire · 23-06-2014 3:15pm

Hi all,

Firstly apologies for the rather simple, obvious question a non-runner like me would like to ask:

Why do you like running?

The reason I ask the question is that I play golf and apart from the odd bad shot, 90% of the time I'm out there enjoying myself as are the people I'm playing with. However, most runners I see seem to be perpetually in a state of pain! I can imagine the buzz you feel afterwards, such as when setting a new personal best, and obviously when you meet up with other runners etc, but during the run itself, do most of you actually like it?? My own father has run 8 marathons, the fastest being just under 3 hours and also broken the hour for 10 miles. He's 65 now and still runs 2 - 3 times a week. I've asked him and he's never actually referred to the run itself rather the "running". Mrs Loire has run 2 marathons but for her it's just her "head space" time and it helps to keep shape.

Just curious,

Loire.

TFBubendorfer · 23-06-2014 3:45pm

"If you have to ask you will never understand"

Tigerandahalf · 23-06-2014 3:58pm

For myself I have always loved exercise, training and sports and so running was easy to fall into I guess. It is really easy to get started. A decent pair of runners is all you need. I run on my own and Im happy doing it that way so far. I enjoy doing races now and I think it is a great hobby to pick up for life. We are blessed in this country at the moment with the choice of races and parkruns taking off.
I also notice how toned my body has become over the last year. I never thought I was overweight but you need to put on a tight top and shorts to put it to the test. Getting out for a run is great to destress and clear or sweat the bad stuff out of the body.
No harm in trying it anyway.

walshb · 23-06-2014 3:59pm

TFBubendorfer wrote: »

"If you have to ask you will never understand"

That's why he is asking. He is trying to understand.

RayCun · 23-06-2014 4:06pm

If you only run now and again, you'll think of running as hard exercise because when you run, you'll find it hard. When you've been running a while, you'll be able to do most of your running at a pace that feels quite easy. You're relaxed, not in pain, and you can enjoy being outside, moving, in your own time.
Then you do a hard session or a race and the pain returns...

Loire · 23-06-2014 5:28pm

Thanks for the replies. I'm about to start running myself. As mentioned it's in the family so to speak and rather than just sit there when my father and wife are talking about running with my thumb in my mouth I've decided to give it a go! I ran a bit when I was much younger and actually ran a mile in 6.30 which was decent as I was only 10 at the time. My first goal will be to match this.

Dr Google also threw up this interesting article http://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2014/jun/12/why-i-love-running and another one
http://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/the-running-blog/2013/feb/05/why-we-love-to-run

Finally, here's a pretty cool clip of running that I also like....about 1min in...
http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=V-i4rSl8lS4

Thanks,

Loire

Krusty_Clown · 23-06-2014 6:00pm

Loire wrote: »

However, most runners I see seem to be perpetually in a state of pain!

Looks can be quite deceptive. Today I went for a lunch-time run from work, and took some mountain bike trails up towards Three Rock. I'd imagine if you'd seen me on the climb, I would have had a pained expression on my face, as the effort in the heat up that climb was tough. But running those trails on a sunny day with the fantastic views overlooking all of Dublin was pure unadulterated joy. If I didn't enjoy it, I just wouldn't do it. Not all runs are like that though. Just as in golf, there have to be bad days, where things just don't work out. Those days you just work through it, in the knowledge that even the sh1tty days are making a better, stronger runner.

davedanon · 23-06-2014 8:56pm

Loire wrote: »

Hi all,

Firstly apologies for the rather simple, obvious question a non-runner like me would like to ask:

Why do you like running?

The reason I ask the question is that I play golf and apart from the odd bad shot, 90% of the time I'm out there enjoying myself as are the people I'm playing with. However, most runners I see seem to be perpetually in a state of pain! I can imagine the buzz you feel afterwards, such as when setting a new personal best, and obviously when you meet up with other runners etc, but during the run itself, do most of you actually like it?? My own father has run 8 marathons, the fastest being just under 3 hours and also broken the hour for 10 miles. He's 65 now and still runs 2 - 3 times a week. I've asked him and he's never actually referred to the run itself rather the "running". Mrs Loire has run 2 marathons but for her it's just her "head space" time and it helps to keep shape.

Just curious,

Loire.

Asking if running is enjoyable, in the same sense that eating an ice-cream or playing X-Box is enjoyable, is like asking if breathing is enjoyable. The concept is too limited to encompass the satisfaction running brings. When you find yourself looking forward to the prospect of running a speed session, despite the fact that it's 20+ degrees (or 2 degrees and freezing) and you're going to be running 12x400m with a breather of approx. 35 secs in between, the whole thing sandwiched by warm up/cool downs lasting 4-5 miles in total, then you know that 'enjoyment' is not really the mot juste. Running has become a necessary, elemental part of my being. I need it the way trees need photosynthesis. Asking me if I enjoy it is asking the wrong question. I require it at extremely regular intervals, or I will be miserable. sorry for waxing poetic. It's the romantic in me.

Ososlo · 23-06-2014 9:01pm

davedanon wrote: »

Asking if running is enjoyable, in the same sense that eating an ice-cream or playing X-Box is enjoyable, is like asking if breathing is enjoyable. The concept is too limited to encompass the satisfaction running brings. When you find yourself looking forward to the prospect of running a speed session, despite the fact that it's 20+ degrees (or 2 degrees and freezing) and you're going to be running 12x400m with a breather of approx. 35 secs in between, the whole thing sandwiched by warm up/cool downs lasting 4-5 miles in total, then you know that 'enjoyment' is not really the mot juste. Running has become a necessary, elemental part of my being. I need it the way trees need photosynthesis. Asking me if I enjoy it is asking the wrong question. I require it at extremely regular intervals, or I will be miserable. sorry for waxing poetic. It's the romantic in me.

Love it. An inherent need that has to be satisfied.
Sums it up perfectly for me too!

menoscemo · 23-06-2014 10:01pm

davedanon wrote: »

Asking if running is enjoyable, in the same sense that eating an ice-cream or playing X-Box is enjoyable, is like asking if breathing is enjoyable. The concept is too limited to encompass the satisfaction running brings. When you find yourself looking forward to the prospect of running a speed session, despite the fact that it's 20+ degrees (or 2 degrees and freezing) and you're going to be running 12x400m with a breather of approx. 35 secs in between, the whole thing sandwiched by warm up/cool downs lasting 4-5 miles in total, then you know that 'enjoyment' is not really the mot juste. Running has become a necessary, elemental part of my being. I need it the way trees need photosynthesis. Asking me if I enjoy it is asking the wrong question. I require it at extremely regular intervals, or I will be miserable. sorry for waxing poetic. It's the romantic in me.

And yet the sisters mock that we are an uneducated motley crew

RayCun · 23-06-2014 10:06pm

menoscemo wrote: »

And yet the sisters mock that we are an uneducated motley crew

dave's training on our track has improved him

davedanon · 23-06-2014 10:15pm

RayCun wrote: »

dave's training on our track has improved him

No, it's because I'm from Raheny.

krafty · 24-06-2014 12:29am

What does WSAF stand for, as in Rathfarnham?

Loire · 24-06-2014 8:51am

davedanon wrote: »

Asking if running is enjoyable, in the same sense that eating an ice-cream or playing X-Box is enjoyable, is like asking if breathing is enjoyable. The concept is too limited to encompass the satisfaction running brings. When you find yourself looking forward to the prospect of running a speed session, despite the fact that it's 20+ degrees (or 2 degrees and freezing) and you're going to be running 12x400m with a breather of approx. 35 secs in between, the whole thing sandwiched by warm up/cool downs lasting 4-5 miles in total, then you know that 'enjoyment' is not really the mot juste. Running has become a necessary, elemental part of my being. I need it the way trees need photosynthesis. Asking me if I enjoy it is asking the wrong question. I require it at extremely regular intervals, or I will be miserable. sorry for waxing poetic. It's the romantic in me.

Hi Dave,

Fantastic post and thanks for that. Throws a lot of light on my question and I think you are right - most runners need running rather than "enjoy" it (which is a bit superflous I suppose).

I actually went for my 2nd run last night in some pitches near my house. I did 2 x 6 minute jogs - and they were jogs as opposed to "runs"

and to finish I did 2 sprints of the field. I was really looking forward to it and felt great afterwards, but during the run itself it was OK...can't say it was very "enjoyable" :pac: but I guess that's the point...It shouldn't be enjoyable, it should be a workout so to speak.

I suppose for now I just need to focus on getting to a stage where I can run 20 minutes comfortably and then concentrate on a plan to break 6:30 for the mile.

By the way, "12x400m with a breather of approx. 35 secs in between" is pretty impressive stuff :cool: My father used to run 800m and 1500m competitively 15 years ago and I remember him being out the in track running those sort of sessions.

Anyway, thanks again for all the replies!

Loire.

Krusty_Clown · 24-06-2014 9:58am

krafty wrote: »

What does WSAF stand for, as in Rathfarnham?

...would suit active fun-runners.

I jest, I jest....:)

davedanon · 24-06-2014 11:29am

Well, having said all that guff yesterday....of course I enjoy it. I love it. Just in a different sort of way.

Inventive User Name · 26-06-2014 12:55pm

For anyone who's run 16:xx 5km, what weight were you at the time? I'm trying to get back under 17:00 but I think I might be a little bit 'heavy' @ 64kg (5ft 10). Thanks!

walshb · 26-06-2014 12:57pm

Inventive User Name wrote: »

For anyone who's run 16:xx 5km, what weight were you at the time? I'm trying to get back under 17:00 but I think I might be a little bit 'heavy' @ 64kg (5ft 10). Thanks!

That seems like an ideal weight.

Krusty_Clown · 26-06-2014 12:57pm

Inventive User Name wrote: »

For anyone who's run 16:xx 5km, what weight were you at the time? I'm trying to get back under 17:00 but I think I might be a little bit 'heavy' @ 64kg (5ft 10). Thanks!

I've run 15:52 - 16:30 probably around 10 times. My weight would vary between 70kg and 73kg (6 ft). I don't reckon that weight is as important over 5k as it is for longer distances (but excess weight certainly won't help). I'd agree. Doesn't seem like excessive weight for your height.

jebuz · 26-06-2014 1:00pm

Sounds pretty good for your height, I ducked under 17 a couple of weeks ago @ 62kg, 5ft 7

The lighter you are the better of course for a 5k but I think it's a bigger factor over the longer distances. (edit: KC got there before me :pac:)

Gringo78 · 26-06-2014 1:30pm

Inventive User Name wrote: »

For anyone who's run 16:xx 5km, what weight were you at the time? I'm trying to get back under 17:00 but I think I might be a little bit 'heavy' @ 64kg (5ft 10). Thanks!

I'm same height 5ft 10 and ran 16:59 weighing 76kg. I'd consider 64kg very light but depends on if you've been lighter before. I run with a 3kg backpack most days and I notice the difference when running without it!

davedanon · 26-06-2014 1:35pm

64kg is just over 10st. I'm also 5'10", on the lean side, and I'm never lighter than 11st4lb. 10st is ideal, I wouldn't think going any lighter is advisable.

ultrapercy · 26-06-2014 1:52pm

Inventive User Name wrote: »

For anyone who's run 16:xx 5km, what weight were you at the time? I'm trying to get back under 17:00 but I think I might be a little bit 'heavy' @ 64kg (5ft 10). Thanks!

Im 70kg and just under 5 11 and close to 16 min now. I ran 15:09 off 72kg or over. I did a test in December and was told that anything over a 2 to 3 kg weight loss would effect my running negatively. My body fat is low at 7.8% so like everything everyone is different.

Inventive User Name · 26-06-2014 2:02pm

Thanks for the replies. I ran 16:57 last March. Never really paid much attention to my weight then, but I think I was about 60 - 61kg. I usually have trouble keeping weight on, on relatively low mileage currently so I'll probably lose a couple of kilos naturally when I start to bump it up over the next few months.

dublin runner · 26-06-2014 4:19pm

I feel like a fat b$stard now after reading all that!

Ososlo · 26-06-2014 4:24pm

dublin runner wrote: »

I feel like a fat b$stard now after reading all that!

www.eatingdisordershelpguide.com/manorexia.html

dublin runner · 26-06-2014 4:31pm

Ososlo wrote: »

www.eatingdisordershelpguide.com/manorexia.html

Haha! Luckily, I am not the sensitive type

''I saw xxx running there earlier, he looks just awful. He's gaunt, pale and looks like he could do with a good feed.''

Response:

''Yeah, he's in some shape alright.''

drquirky · 26-06-2014 4:38pm

I'm with you DR all these 5'10 lads at 64 kg make me feel really overweight at 63/64 kg and 5'5. Guarantee my pythons are bigger though

I agree w/ KC as well though- I can get away with a sub 17 5k carrying a little extra weight- as distances go up though I find going in at a light racing weight crucial

Ososlo · 26-06-2014 4:38pm

I'm 8 stone 9 pounds. If I lost 10 pounds to a stone would it help my 5k time? All the elite runners both male and female are skin and bone. Does it only make a significant difference if you're at the top the field and chasing seconds off your time as opposed to minutes? 5 foot 6. I do eat a fair bit but it's 80% healthy but I guess I could cut out a handful of seeds here and there

ecoli · 26-06-2014 4:47pm

Ososlo wrote: »

I'm 8 stone 9 pounds. If I lost 10 pounds to a stone would it help my 5k time? All the elite runners both male and female are skin and bone. Does it only make a significant difference if you're at the top the field and chasing seconds off your time as opposed to minutes? 5 foot 6. I do eat a fair bit but it's 80% healthy but I guess I could cut out a handful of seeds here and there

Funny enough though you will probably find they weigh more.

People obsess about weight with no context. Lean muscle weighs more than fat, a fact which should not be forgotten

This year I am probably about 1/4 stone heavier yet I look a hell of alot leaner due to nutrition and strength work (but mostly nutrition)

nolinejudge · 26-06-2014 4:51pm

ecoli wrote: »

Funny enough though you will probably find they weigh more.

People obsess about weight with no context. Lean muscle weighs more than fat, a fact which should not be forgotten

This year I am probably about 1/4 stone heavier yet I look a hell of alot leaner due to nutrition and strength work (but mostly nutrition)

I like beer to much for weight to be my first challenge. Only once I reach peak physical fitness will I focus on weight loss:)

dublin runner · 26-06-2014 5:01pm

Ososlo wrote: »

I'm 8 stone 9 pounds. If I lost 10 pounds to a stone would it help my 5k time? All the elite runners both male and female are skin and bone. Does it only make a significant difference if you're at the top the field and chasing seconds off your time as opposed to minutes? 5 foot 6. I do eat a fair bit but it's 80% healthy but I guess I could cut out a handful of seeds here and there

Depends. I don't worry too much about my weight rather by body fat percentage.

Itziger · 26-06-2014 5:05pm

Ososlo wrote: »

I'm 8 stone 9 pounds. If I lost 10 pounds to a stone would it help my 5k time? All the elite runners both male and female are skin and bone. Does it only make a significant difference if you're at the top the field and chasing seconds off your time as opposed to minutes? 5 foot 6. I do eat a fair bit but it's 80% healthy but I guess I could cut out a handful of seeds here and there

I've forgotten what the equivalent stone weight is at this stage; haven't counted in stones for the last 20 years but even without converting I believe 8 stone 9 is light, depending a little on height of course, and a littler on gender.

Are you joking about losing a stone??

Do I need to reset my sarcasm monitor?

(Just spotted the 5ft 6 there)

Finnt · 26-06-2014 7:15pm

dublin runner wrote: »

Depends. I don't worry too much about my weight rather by body fat percentage.

How do you get body fat measured?

Itziger · 26-06-2014 7:42pm

Folks, a question re tune-up session before race. I have a Half Marathon on Sunday and I would normally do the last little speedy effort 4 or 5 days out as you see in most plans. You know the type, warm up + 3x1k or 1mile at 10k pace and cool down. This time round however I had an 'intestinal issue' on Tuesday and Wednesday. I'm absolutely fine again, so the question (eventually) is the following: Is Thursday too late to do the tune-up session?

Ososlo · 26-06-2014 7:43pm

Itziger wrote: »

I've forgotten what the equivalent stone weight is at this stage; haven't counted in stones for the last 20 years but even without converting I believe 8 stone 9 is light, depending a little on height of course, and a littler on gender.

Are you joking about losing a stone??

Do I need to reset my sarcasm monitor?

(Just spotted the 5ft 6 there)

121 lbs - 54.9kg. Female.
Tongue half in cheek but I do wonder all the same... I see 2 female elite runners now and again running in my area and I feel like a heifer compared to them. Their bodies are like my 10 year old niece's. They would be at least a stone lighter than me but probably lighter. Very muscly arms though but slight at the same time. It's skin, bone and muscle. A different species!

ecoli · 26-06-2014 7:51pm

Finnt wrote: »

How do you get body fat measured?

Skin fold calipers, bod pod's or if you have a couple of hundred euro laying around a Dexa scan is the most accurate

Cabaal · 26-06-2014 8:21pm

Ah feck, feel awful heavy now 190lbs / 6 foot,
I've toned and built muscle alot more this year but the damn scales doesn't move more the 2-3lbs either way.

Itziger · 26-06-2014 8:25pm

Ososlo wrote: »

121 lbs - 54.9kg. Female.
Tongue half in cheek but I do wonder all the same... I see 2 female elite runners now and again running in my area and I feel like a heifer compared to them. Their bodies are like my 10 year old niece's. They would be at least a stone lighter than me but probably lighter. Very muscly arms though but slight at the same time. It's skin, bone and muscle. A different species!

Ah, female, ok. And those elites, sure anyone would look 'fat' next to them. I'll always remember the closest I got to a world level elite athlete was in New York about 8 years ago. 'Twas the day before the marathon and one lad was evidently doing his 30 minute loosener routine. Heading into Central Park right by the finish of the race. Don't know who he was I must admit, but I was amazed at his legs especially. Looked like my arms, I'm not kidding.

That was before I got back into running so my arms were a bit heavier than now;)

Ososlo · 26-06-2014 8:48pm

Itziger wrote: »

Ah, female, ok.

oh so you're sayin' I'm fat:mad:

Itziger · 26-06-2014 8:58pm

Ososlo wrote: »

oh so you're sayin' I'm fat:mad:

No, but I was worried you might be a guy!

TFBubendorfer · 26-06-2014 9:09pm

ecoli wrote: »

Funny enough though you will probably find they weigh more.

People obsess about weight with no context. Lean muscle weighs more than fat, a fact which should not be forgotten

This year I am probably about 1/4 stone heavier yet I look a hell of alot leaner due to nutrition and strength work (but mostly nutrition)

Same here. I weigh 3-4 pounds more than a couple of years ago but my waist is slimmer (and my old trousers are falling down if I don't wear a belt). Weight is what a lot of people obsess about but they are missing the bigger picture.

I'm 178cm/5ft10 and 66kg/10st6. Despite what I said in the previous paragraph I still wonder if I would run faster if I were a couple of pounds lighter, though. :rolleyes:

Clearlier · 27-06-2014 3:50pm

Itziger wrote: »

Folks, a question re tune-up session before race. I have a Half Marathon on Sunday and I would normally do the last little speedy effort 4 or 5 days out as you see in most plans. You know the type, warm up + 3x1k or 1mile at 10k pace and cool down. This time round however I had an 'intestinal issue' on Tuesday and Wednesday. I'm absolutely fine again, so the question (eventually) is the following: Is Thursday too late to do the tune-up session?

It's Friday now so a little late for you but in case anyone else is reading it wouldn't have been a good idea to do the session on Thursday. You won't get any physiological benefits and you may still be tired from it come Sunday. If you were concerned about leg speed some strides would have been the best option. I'd be looking to leave about 5 days between last session and a race.

davedanon · 27-06-2014 7:10pm

Who knew the jokes were for real all this time????

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