Munster v Leinster Build Up Thread

costacorta · 24-01-2021 4:01pm

Dave_The_Sheep wrote: »

That is certainly a take.

I mean it's utterly incorrect, since Keenan has just kicked the ball and Daly has just elbowed him in the mouth, but it's a take all the same.

My point being you can always put up a picture that suits your point? I think referee and video ref had a look and saw nothing wrong !!!

So what are ye trying to say referee and video ref were wrong and the boards experts are correct as they have photo .

Dave_The_Sheep · 24-01-2021 4:04pm

Yes, I am saying the ref and video ref got this one wrong.

I'm not putting up a screenshot to prove my point, you have that backwards. I'm looking at the video of my copy of the game (and screenshot that I took from said video) and coming to the conclusion that Daly has jumped into and made contact with his elbow to Keenan's head.

I'd have uploaded a video clip, but I can't figure out an easy way to do it.

Buer · 24-01-2021 4:04pm

Clegg wrote: »

He was at the heart of everything Leinster did well last night. Stole two of Munster's lineouts, was inevitably the first or second man at the ruck and did the bulk of our tackling and heavy carrying. He was probably our best player against Ulster a few weeks ago and has kicked in even further. He had a relatively quiet 2020, but is starting to hit his 2018-2019 at just the right time.

I was wondering if I was watching a different game to some. He was barely mentioned by the commentary team.

He was doing as much work as two players on both sides of the ball and, unlike most games in recent times, he came up with some big moments that turned the momentum of the game. Some of his tackles were excellent too, driving guys back. That's the best performance I've seen from him in blue for a long time.

Burkie1203 · 24-01-2021 4:05pm

costacorta wrote: »

My point being you can always put up a picture that suits your point? I think referee and video ref had a look and saw nothing wrong !!!

So what are ye trying to say referee and video ref were wrong and the boards experts are correct as they have photo .

The ref and TMO got it wrong. Only a few months ago they got it wrong in Belfast (Treadwell). They do make mistakes.

The picture shows the point of contact and anyone who watched the game knows the context. Last night they very quickly brushed it off as reviewed. Brace should have been looking at that himself on video.

molloyjh · 24-01-2021 4:06pm

Another talking point is Larmours decision to kick here. Sure we got a 5m scrum out of it, but look at the numbers had he looked to give the pass...

costacorta · 24-01-2021 4:07pm

Dave_The_Sheep wrote: »

Yes, I am saying the ref and video ref got this one wrong.

I'm not putting up a screenshot to prove my point, you have that backwards. I'm looking at the video of my copy of the game (and screenshot that I took from said video) and coming to the conclusion that Daly has jumped into and made contact with his elbow to Keenan's head.

I'd have uploaded a video clip, but I can't figure out an easy way to do it.

Yes I know that but video was also seen by referee and it was deemed that nothing was illegal. Pictures can actually make it look worse than it was .

molloyjh · 24-01-2021 4:09pm

costacorta wrote: »

Yes I know that but video was also seen by referee and it was deemed that nothing was illegal. Pictures can actually make it look worse than it was .

Its a player jumping into another player and making contact with the head. Thats exactly what it is. And as such should have been penalised. A discussion over whether its a red or a yellow is fair enough. Arguing there's nothing wrong with it though is wholly at odds with the laws of the game as they stand.

Buer · 24-01-2021 4:09pm

molloyjh wrote: »

Another talking point is Larmours decision to kick here. Sure we got a 5m scrum out of it, but look at the numbers had he looked to give the pass...

Said it at the time here when he was being praised. It was a poor decision, real tunnel vision. Got a good result from the kick but there was a try on.

Sexton is in the back field. If he's outside Larmour it's either gonna be moved out or Larmour is gonna get a bollocking from his outhalf.

Burkie1203 · 24-01-2021 4:10pm

costacorta wrote: »

Yes I know that but video was also seen by referee and it was deemed that nothing was illegal. Pictures can actually make it look worse than it was .

The video wasn't reviewed by the ref. Just the TMO but very very quickly.

molloyjh · 24-01-2021 4:18pm

Buer wrote: »

Said it at the time here when he was being praised. It was a poor decision, real tunnel vision. Got a good result from the kick but there was a try on.

Sexton is in the back field. If he's outside Larmour it's either gonna be moved out or Larmour is gonna get a bollocking from his outhalf.

Yeah I mentioned it on WhatsApp at the time but only just got to see it back properly for the first time this afternoon. Its pretty shocking stuff from Larmour.

Buer · 24-01-2021 4:22pm

molloyjh wrote: »

Yeah I mentioned it on WhatsApp at the time but only just got to see it back properly for the first time this afternoon. Its pretty shocking stuff from Larmour.

Worse than I actually thought in real time. It's 7 on 3. I thought at the time maybe he was in traffic and didn't spot it but he has loads of space and time there to see what's outside him.

crisco10 · 24-01-2021 4:25pm

Buer wrote: »

Worse than I actually thought in real time. It's 7 on 3. I thought at the time maybe he was in traffic and didn't spot it but he has loads of space and time there to see what's outside him.

The only thing in his favour was that there wasn't that much space over there..Maybe 20 yards of space? And there were a few tight forwards in there and nobody had any depth.

Don't get me wrong, I was screaming at the tv at the time for him to pass. At least his kick was perfectly weighted.

Lost Ormond · 24-01-2021 4:27pm

crisco10 wrote: »

The only thing in his favour was that there wasn't that much space over there..Maybe 20 yards of space? And there were a few tight forwards in there.

Don't get me wrong, I was screaming at the tv at the time for him to pass. At least his kick was perfectly weighted.

Surely that would be even more reason to give it to the tight forwards. Allow them set up ruck and recycle back infield?

crisco10 · 24-01-2021 4:29pm

Festive Life wrote: »

Surely that would be even more reason to give it to the tight forwards. Allow them set up ruck and recycle back infield?

Back infield where the majority of the Munster players are??

It would be my take that in am overlap situation I want backs and more agile forwards that can use that space rather than setting up a ruck.

Buer · 24-01-2021 4:38pm

crisco10 wrote: »

The only thing in his favour was that there wasn't that much space over there..Maybe 20 yards of space? And there were a few tight forwards in there and nobody had any depth.

Don't get me wrong, I was screaming at the tv at the time for him to pass. At least his kick was perfectly weighted.

With an overlap that size, you just throw a long pass. Fardy is the forward out wide with JOB and Keenan. He's brilliant at those draw and pass situations.

A long pass would have taken out defenders and left a very basic attacking situation.

Yeah_Right · 24-01-2021 4:59pm

That game was a real old fashioned battle. Not easy on the eye but a good watch nonetheless. Best game I've seen Murray play in over 2 years but I would have liked to see Casey on earlier.

What is it about Munster props and stupid penalties? Every game it is guaranteed the that Cronin, Archer and Ryan will give away at least a couple of dumb penalties.

The Marshall slide was a fair call. On first viewing I thought he was trying to dive on the ball but Henshaw got there first. Having seen it again I think he actually tried to stop so he could make a tackle and just slipped over. Either way, it was a penalty. Nothing more.

When Daly collided with Keenan, my first thought was Stander v Lambie and I expected a card. I'm sure I heard the ref say it was checked and nothing in it. Bizarre.

24-01-2021 5:27pm

Yeah_Right wrote: »

That game was a real old fashioned battle. Not easy on the eye but a good watch nonetheless. Best game I've seen Murray play in over 2 years but I would have liked to see Casey on earlier.
.

Yeah it was good battle. Huge intensity which from a team Ireland perspective is ideal in the run into the six nations. Wales won't offer anything more than what the two teams went through last night so an ideal warm up.

I think Murray will be the starting 9 now for Ireland. His kicking was really impressive, accurate and consistently rewarded Munster with territory and possession. Munster's kicking generally was much better than Leinster's from 9 to 15. I absolutely loved his slap down on Ringrose and he was lively ball in hand. Really assuring to see him have such a good performance and bodes well for our chances in the six nations. Sexton went well too - very physical and distributed well. His cross field kick when we had advantage was a poor decision and a waste that I think cost us a try. We were all over Munster at the time and the forwards were making consistent gain line. The next visit we had to the Munster 5m line the forwards never allowed the ball to come back albeit we got turned over so ... yeah.

Ringrose and Larmour were rusty but showed some glimpses of what they can do. Larmour was dire under the high ball and Munster targeting him in such a fashion worries me a bit to be honest, the Munster lads will be plenty familiar with him so I suspect it's a well known weakness. On the other hand he was unreal going forward and made an absolute mockery of some of the Munster backs at times. Leinster back three even without Lowe had some nice moments, we're outkicked by their opponents but looked a lot more assured ball in hand.

Having watched the game back Ryan was out on his own as motm. Hugely vocal throughout, incredibly physical and cost the Munster pack plenty of gainline in contact and he kept trucking for 80+ minutes. Some of our key players are hitting form at just the right time and I'm a little excited for the six nations now to be honest.

I said it after the game and stand by it - Leinster left a bunch of scores out there and were more than 3 points better than Munster, but credit to an incredible defensive effort to keep the score as tight as it was. Munster are 1 fit Snyman away from turning this fixture around imo - albeit the front row is still an issue.

On a side note I'm delighted to see the levels of salt on the forum, the provinces properly mauling each other is a good sign for the national team.

Clegg · 24-01-2021 5:29pm

Loved the Leinster players reaction to Beirne knocking on near the end of the game. Huge roars and back slaps. Giving it right back to Beirne after his turnover from earlier. Really meant a lot to them to win last night.

molloyjh · 24-01-2021 5:37pm

Buer wrote: »

With an overlap that size, you just throw a long pass. Fardy is the forward out wide with JOB and Keenan. He's brilliant at those draw and pass situations.

A long pass would have taken out defenders and left a very basic attacking situation.

This. 2 Munster defenders were facing infield as well so I would absolutely back Leinster to score there if it went through the hands.

VANG1 · 24-01-2021 5:59pm

Ringrose and Larmour have hardly played after long abscence. They were rusty but will come on massively for the game. Can’t believe the personal attacks on here after the odd mistakes. All players make mistakes, give away penalties etc.. no one is perfect. The great players make the big plays after making a mistake. Class is very rare.

24-01-2021 5:59pm

Clegg wrote: »

Loved the Leinster players reaction to Beirne knocking on near the end of the game. Huge roars and back slaps. Giving it right back to Beirne after his turnover from earlier. Really meant a lot to them to win last night.

That was ridiculous from Beirne. You'd think he just won a RWC final

thomond2006 · 24-01-2021 6:01pm

Miller Dirty Selenium wrote: »

That was ridiculous from Beirne. You'd think he just won a RWC final

As opposed to James Lowe who celebrates despite not being involved.

Beirne's reaction was over the top but it's a fairly regular occurrence in rugby these days. It's something I wouldn't mind seeing clamped down by officials. Sarcastically patting someone on the head disappeared from the game once it became an obvious offence.

BoardsMember · 24-01-2021 6:11pm

thomond2006 wrote: »

As opposed to James Lowe who celebrates despite not being involved.
Beirne's reaction was over the top but it's a fairly regular occurrence in rugby these days. It's something I wouldn't mind seeing clamped down by officials. Sarcastically patting someone on the head disappeared from the game once it became an obvious offence.

I thought Beirne response was fairly genuine, I wouldn't have an issue with it. As with Lowe in similar circumstances, I think its just a passionate response for a passionate player at a key time.

arsebiscuits1 · 24-01-2021 7:38pm

Quick note having rewatched the game.

I thought Shane Daly was very impressive (other than the Keenan incident)

He barely put a foot wrong and really showed a strong all around skill set. Had some tidy offloads, decent fielding, good defence and absolute howitzers of kicks.

He can take a lot from last night I think.

The Inbetween is mine · 24-01-2021 7:57pm

arsebiscuits1 wrote: »

Quick note having rewatched the game.

I thought Shane Daly was very impressive (other than the Keenan incident)

He barely put a foot wrong and really showed a strong all around skill set. Had some tidy offloads, decent fielding, good defence and absolute howitzers of kicks.

He can take a lot from last night I think.

Including a sore elbow

ItsChecoTime · 24-01-2021 8:35pm

Burkie1203 wrote: »

Marshall was nowhere near sliding to gather the ball. Henshaw already has the ball in his arms at chest height before Marshall goes to ground. His immediate reaction is to hold his hands up. Brace was metres away. How he can claimed to have missed it is beyond me. Henshaw on another day leaves the field on a stretcher.

https://twitter.com/barryfromhome/status/1353288616081035265?s=19

Daly elbow connected with Keenans face. Thats a red card offence. There is no mitigation. Like Marshall he immediately holds his hands up knowing he has done wrong.

Brace had a go at Henshaw for screaming at him for missing this "tackle". I'm sorry but if you're missing a challenge that could have caused a serious injury he needs to be less precious.

He seems to have an attitude problem regularly coming back with snide comebacks to players. I don't mind a ref standing up for himself but think there's a difference here and judging by his recent performances I'm not surprised he's constantly being questioned

Burkie1203 · 24-01-2021 9:18pm

ItsChecoTime wrote: »

Brace had a go at Henshaw for screaming at him for missing this "tackle". I'm sorry but if you're missing a challenge that could have caused a serious injury he needs to be less precious.

He seems to have an attitude problem regularly coming back with snide comebacks to players. I don't mind a ref standing up for himself but think there's a difference here and judging by his recent performances I'm not surprised he's constantly being questioned

I've no problem with a ref laying down the law if its a player appealing for a breakdown penalty etc. But Henshaw just knew he was lucky to not be leaving on a stretcher.

Akrasia · 24-01-2021 9:26pm

lawred2 wrote: »

That's obviously a fair point. Maybe it's a perception thing.. but when it matters, I have little confidence in him going 100% off the tee in big games.

JJ missed 1 very difficult kick, and 1 sitter but he didn't lose the game on his own.

The Munster lineout was just awful. We lost 4 in a row at one stage, 2 crooked throws in one match. We really really need to sort this out.

It just sucked the momentum out of our attack

sydthebeat · 24-01-2021 9:34pm

Burkie1203 wrote: »

I've no problem with a ref laying down the law if its a player appealing for a breakdown penalty etc. But Henshaw just knew he was lucky to not be leaving on a stretcher.

it was a good job that henshaw actually had both feet off the ground because it he had have had a planted foot when marshall slid in on him like that it could have been very very ugly.

for all the time ive played, sliding in on a player was always a huge no no becuase of the possible injury dangers

Akrasia · 24-01-2021 9:46pm

thomond2006 wrote: »

As opposed to James Lowe who celebrates despite not being involved.
Beirne's reaction was over the top but it's a fairly regular occurrence in rugby these days. It's something I wouldn't mind seeing clamped down by officials. Sarcastically patting someone on the head disappeared from the game once it became an obvious offence.

You want to make pashun illegal?

phily2002 · 24-01-2021 10:13pm

yerrahbah wrote: »

Nice bit of analysis by Jackman,

We had Leinster in their 22, miss a tackle, give away a soft penalty and Leinster score the game winning try

https://twitter.com/bernardjackman/status/1353308378890706944

Think Luke McGrath was quality in this play. Murray kicks away the ball from a good attacking position. McGrath with a great break off the mall and the speed he gets up from the deck to keep up the quick play. Same for the try phase his delivery was really quick.
Murray was great with the boot yesterday but McGrath's speed of delivery was excellent and helped win Leinster the game.
I know Murray will start for Ireland but I'd love to see one of the others who's a running threat get a proper run. With Murray it's going to be slow and controlled while I think Ireland need quick ball to get our outsides backs more opportunities

ionadnapokot · 25-01-2021 10:48am

BoardsMember wrote: »

I thought Beirne response was fairly genuine, I wouldn't have an issue with it. As with Lowe in similar circumstances, I think its just a passionate response for a passionate player at a key time.

Lowe is a joke.

Defo do not have an issue with Beirne.
Anyone who has put their body on the line like that will understand Beirnes reaction.
It was a key turnover penalty that he won on his own and on his own line at a crucial point in the game.

The reaction to his knock-on is something i cant stand.
When the opposition makes a mistake just get on with it.

Beirne had a good game. I’ve seen him play better.
Probably the most consistent Irish forward across 2017-18, 2019 & this 2020-21 season.
He’s a constant turnover threat, has excellent lineout skills, mobility & all with a sheer hunger and bravery.

He’s a must start v Wales.

bayern · 25-01-2021 10:50am

ionadnapokot wrote: »

Lowe is a joke.

Defo do not have an issue with Beirne.
Anyone who has put their body on the line like that will understand Beirnes reaction.
It was a key turnover penalty that he won on his own and on his own line at a crucial point in the game.

The reaction to his knock-on is something i cant stand.
When the opposition makes a mistake just get on with it.

Beirne had a good game. I’ve seen him play better.
Probably the most consistent Irish forward across 2017-18, 2019 & this 2020-21 season.
He’s a constant turnover threat, has excellent lineout skills, mobility & all with a sheer hunger and bravery.

He’s a must start v Wales.

Richie_Rich89 · 25-01-2021 11:07am

ionadnapokot wrote: »

Lowe is a joke.

Defo do not have an issue with Beirne.
Anyone who has put their body on the line like that will understand Beirnes reaction.
It was a key turnover penalty that he won on his own and on his own line at a crucial point in the game.

The reaction to his knock-on is something i cant stand.
When the opposition makes a mistake just get on with it.

Beirne had a good game. I’ve seen him play better.
Probably the most consistent Irish forward across 2017-18, 2019 & this 2020-21 season.
He’s a constant turnover threat, has excellent lineout skills, mobility & all with a sheer hunger and bravery.

He’s a must start v Wales.

Not sure he's good enough in teh lineout. It went to pot against Leinster and in the Autumn against France. How does a second row who's the primary lineout jumper get rave reviews when the lineout malfunctions so badly?

I think I would start Thornbury alongside Ryan.

ionadnapokot · 25-01-2021 11:12am

Dont think Ryan had a particularly good 2019.
& slowly coming around again the last few months after his injury in 2020.

Best game ive seen for him in a good while

bayern · 25-01-2021 11:14am

ionadnapokot wrote: »

Dont think Ryan had a particularly good 2019.
& slowly coming around again the last few months after his injury in 2020.

Best game ive seen for him in a good while

James Ryan consensus irish player of the year in 2018-2019 season: https://www.rte.ie/sport/rugby/2019/0515/1049655-james-ryan-named-players-player-of-the-year/

His "bad performances" are a 7/10. Judged by different levels to everyone else at his position.

ionadnapokot · 25-01-2021 11:22am

Im saying his 2019 form including RWC.
I dont think he's been as consistent as Beirne over the periods I've stated.

arsebiscuits1 · 25-01-2021 1:51pm

ionadnapokot wrote: »

Im saying his 2019 form including RWC.
I dont think he's been as consistent as Beirne over the periods I've stated.

Eh??

What is your barometer for consistency here? Ryan has started every Ireland and Leinster game he has been available for.

Beirne rarely gets the nod to start for Ireland.

Not really sure how you could say he's more consistent in this case.

I don't think you can really compare the 2

Morathi · 25-01-2021 3:41pm

ionadnapokot wrote: »

Lowe is a joke.

Defo do not have an issue with Beirne.
Anyone who has put their body on the line like that will understand Beirnes reaction.

So, is there a metric for how much body is to be put on the line before you're allowed to react in a match?

Jesus I hope they're teaching this stuff in the academies. Lowe needs to up his Body to Line ratio if he's going to continue in his nefarious ways. Rookie numbers!

ionadnapokot · 25-01-2021 6:03pm

arsebiscuits1 wrote: »

Eh??

What is your barometer for consistency here? Ryan has started every Ireland and Leinster game he has been available for.

Beirne rarely gets the nod to start for Ireland.

Not really sure how you could say he's more consistent in this case.

I don't think you can really compare the 2

Im not really comparing the two...if you know what i mean?

Just taking account of Beirne's overall forward play as a whole and his consistency in delivering good to excellent performance for Scarlet's, Munster & Ireland.

Ryan is of course the other consistent mainstay but i feel he was just exhausted at H-T v Japan and hasn't recovered to his previous best. I thought the break would really help him and Furlong but that shoulder injury hasn't helped.

When i thin about it again CJ's has probably been the most consistent! His durability is almost unbelievable.

ionadnapokot · 25-01-2021 6:08pm

Morathi wrote: »

So, is there a metric for how much body is to be put on the line before you're allowed to react in a match?

Jesus I hope they're teaching this stuff in the academies. Lowe needs to up his Body to Line ratio if he's going to continue in his nefarious ways. Rookie numbers!

I wouldn't say a metric...just a bit of cop on!!

A winger running in whooping and hollering when he hasnt been involved in the play is completely different to a forward who is in the white heat of battle and winning his team a crucial penalty.

Scratchly · 25-01-2021 8:13pm

ionadnapokot wrote: »

I wouldn't say a metric...just a bit of cop on!!

A winger running in whooping and hollering when he hasnt been involved in the play is completely different to a forward who is in the white heat of battle and winning his team a crucial penalty.

Or you could say running in to congratulate teammates is a lot more understandable than roaring at the opposition like a fool.

All a matter of perspective.

molloyjh · 25-01-2021 8:17pm

Jaysus, some have little to be talking about if either Beirnes celebration of a big moment or Lowes celebrations of big moments from team mates is an issue. Both are completely understandable and I honestly can't see why anyone would have a problem with either.

aloooof · 25-01-2021 8:33pm

molloyjh wrote: »

Jaysus, some have little to be talking about if either Beirnes celebration of a big moment or Lowes celebrations of big moments from team mates is an issue. Both are completely understandable and I honestly can't see why anyone would have a problem with either.

I think the main reason is that this is the Munster v Leinster thread, where any semblance of objectivity tends to go out the window...

Munster v Leinster Build Up Thread

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