Ulster Team Talk Thread IV... Go On My Henderson...

awec · 31-10-2019 10:44pm

Paul Smeenus wrote: »

I hope we're not underestimating Zebre. No Burns if Johnston gets in trouble, and Curtis has played mostly at centre for us rather than ten. Like to see McBurney and Curtis step up a bit.

Hopefully McBurney has a big breakthrough season. Really like the cut of his jib. Just needs to cut down on the penalties.

Gave Johnny Sexton a bit of a seeing to in an Ireland camp so he's obviously the right sort.

bilston · 01-11-2019 12:12am

I'm looking forward to seeing Bill Johnston starting at 10. I'm surprised Burns isn't on the bench though as protection.

Clegg · 01-11-2019 9:04pm

Did Addison go off with his arm in a sling?

jacothelad · 01-11-2019 9:23pm

Clegg wrote: »

Did Addison go off with his arm in a sling?

Yes. He slipped in the dung Ulster are spewing all over the pitch.

Hands Like Flippers · 01-11-2019 10:08pm

9 and 10 v poor.

bilston · 01-11-2019 11:47pm

Another scruffy performance tonight.

However Luke Marshall was head and shoulders above anyone else on the pitch. Rob Lyttle was impressive as well. We also saw how good Billy Burns is for Ulster tonight because of his absence. Johnston didn't do anything wrong, but Ulster's attacking shape was sharp enough tonight and I think some of that was down to the out half. I still think Johnston can be a big player us moving forward and again he wasn't poor tonight, he was as just ok.

I want to see more from Faddes...yes we see the odd really impressive highlight, but there is some bad stuff as well, we need more consistency.

Ultimately Ulster are winning the games they should win, but the big test will be the next three weeks...

Munster (a)
Bath (a)
Clermont (h)

A huge three weeks ahead.

Oh, and our receipt of restarts are shambolic!

Locke_Lamora · 02-11-2019 12:05am

We do a lot wrong and we're very limited in certain areas, but the team still manages to do enough to make me want to watch again next weekend.

I was fine with how Johnston played, he was making the right passes and moving it wide at the right times which is good enough at this stage. Coetzee phenomenal as usual. Lyttle is a baller, and perhaps an underrated skill of his is how his kicks through always have good depth and straddle the touchline. He doesn't have the top end speed to consistently win the ball back, but it puts the defence under a lot of pressure. Thought Rea really stepped up tonight and put himself about well enough. Scrum went surprisingly well - O'Toole certainly fairing better than last year, possibly because he looks to have gained a bit of weight.

bilston · 02-11-2019 12:16am

Locke_Lamora wrote: »

We do a lot wrong and we're very limited in certain areas, but the team still manages to do enough to make me want to watch again next weekend.

I was fine with how Johnston played, he was making the right passes and moving it wide at the right times which is good enough at this stage. Coetzee phenomenal as usual. Lyttle is a baller, and perhaps an underrated skill of his is how his kicks through always have good depth and straddle the touchline. He doesn't have the top end speed to consistently win the ball back, but it puts the defence under a lot of pressure. Thought Rea really stepped up tonight and put himself about well enough. Scrum went surprisingly well - O'Toole certainly fairing better than last year, possibly because he looks to have gained a bit of weight.

Agree Coetzee was good.

I'm not sure Shanahan had a great game, it is difficult to tell from my seat why Ulster are struggling to generate quick ball, but there were definitely missed opportunities out there tonight due to the wrong option being taken or the ball being too slow.

Mention for Angus Curtis when he came on, he gave us a bit more bite in midfield, but tonight was probably the sort of night where ideally you'd have McCloskey smashing it up the middle. Hopefully he will be ready for Bath and Clermont.

Squidgy Black · 02-11-2019 12:30am

Johnston was always going to be under a bit more pressure with Dave inside of him considering it was his first start, ideally you'd like to have your best 9 inside a young outhalf for support but I'm glad to hear it wasn't a bad performance. I reckon with time he could be a decent option if Burns doesn't turn out to be the real deal.

It'll be interesting to see if he gets more chances throughout the season, seemed like there was a real reluctance to give McPhillips game time other than when necessary last year but that may have been down to other factors.

Hands Like Flippers · 02-11-2019 1:17am

Ulster played the territory game poorly for the most part. DS offers no control from 9 and gave no quick ruck ball all evening (other reasons also but he is far too ponderous) and only kicked slow box kicks. There were quite a few deep kicks on but he didn't even look.

BJ didn't win territory either. The best kicks for territory were from LM, CG and RL. The Zebre 10 was much better at it. DS definitely hurt his performance.

Of course it is great to play a lovely running game with ball in hand but it was more of a night for controlling the game which is why Zebre were better for a lot of it.

Marshall could have finished both those try opportunities.

MF makes a lot of errors. Has good moments but makes a lot of errors for an overseas signing IMHO. I've seen this in all 3 games I've gone to this year. I hope we aren't banking on him as a starter for the big games. Misses a lot of tavkles as well. Was great under the high ball on a v wet night though.

Hands Like Flippers · 02-11-2019 1:20am

Squidgy Black wrote: »

Johnston was always going to be under a bit more pressure with Dave inside of him considering it was his first start, ideally you'd like to have your best 9 inside a young outhalf for support but I'm glad to hear it wasn't a bad performance. I reckon with time he could be a decent option if Burns doesn't turn out to be the real deal.

It'll be interesting to see if he gets more chances throughout the season, seemed like there was a real reluctance to give McPhillips game time other than when necessary last year but that may have been down to other factors.

Agreed.

Interesting though when JC came on for the last 10 mins BJ was screaming at him to go wide in our half and JC took a look and kicked deep instead. He will have learnt a lot.

V disappointed we didn't get bonus try especially when their 7 was in the bin for the last 10. We just weren't good enough.

Digifriendly · 03-11-2019 10:41pm

Hands Like Flippers wrote: »

Agreed.

Interesting though when JC came on for the last 10 mins BJ was screaming at him to go wide in our half and JC took a look and kicked deep instead. He will have learnt a lot.

V disappointed we didn't get bonus try especially when their 7 was in the bin for the last 10. We just weren't good enough.

Think I'm right in saying that Zebre had 3 yellow cards in the second half. If that is correct they played with 14 men for 30 out of 40 minutes so we really should have secured the BP. Dreadful night for watching and I was glad I had my waterproofs on. Tough next few weeks ahead so we have to step up a gear or two especially for Europe.

Paul Smeenus · 05-11-2019 3:50pm

Hume out for four months, hamstring. Addison not as badly hurt as feared, outside chance he might make it for Saturday. Ludik following return-to-play protocols.

No idea how the backline runs out against Munster, then. Cooney - Burns - Stockdale - Curtis - Marshall - Gilroy - Faddes?

Utah_Saint · 05-11-2019 4:11pm

Paul Smeenus wrote: »

Hume out for four months, hamstring. Addison not as badly hurt as feared, outside chance he might make it for Saturday. Ludik following return-to-play protocols.

No idea how the backline runs out against Munster, then. Cooney - Burns - Stockdale - Curtis - Marshall - Gilroy - Faddes?

That would be my pick also. Although they might keep the Internationals out of action until Europe.

bilston · 05-11-2019 6:09pm

Paul Smeenus wrote: »

Hume out for four months, hamstring. Addison not as badly hurt as feared, outside chance he might make it for Saturday. Ludik following return-to-play protocols.

No idea how the backline runs out against Munster, then. Cooney - Burns - Stockdale - Curtis - Marshall - Gilroy - Faddes?

Disappointing news about Hume.

Any news on Balacoune or Lowry?

You could stick Gilroy at 15 with Faddes and Marshall in the centre and Lyttle and Stockdale on the wing.

Hands Like Flippers · 05-11-2019 6:36pm

bilston wrote: »

Disappointing news about Hume.

Any news on Balacoune or Lowry?

You could stick Gilroy at 15 with Faddes and Marshall in the centre and Lyttle and Stockdale on the wing.

Faddes better at 15. Too many errors at 13.

Clegg · 08-11-2019 1:42pm

Ulster team named. Not a single home grown player in the pack. We know Ulster have a problem up front. But seeing the line up hammers it home. Doing much better with the backs though.

15. Matt Faddes
14. Rob Lyttle
13. Luke Marshall
12. Stuart McCloskey
11. Jacob Stockdale
10. Angus Curtis
9. John Cooney

1. Jack McGrath
2. Rob Herring (captain)
3. Marty Moore
4. Alan O’Connor
5. Sam Carter
6. Sean Reidy
7. Jordi Murphy
8. Nick Timoney.

molloyjh · 08-11-2019 1:59pm

Clegg wrote: »

Ulster team named. Not a single home grown player in the pack. We know Ulster have a problem up front. But seeing the line up hammers it home. Doing much better with the backs though.

15. Matt Faddes
14. Rob Lyttle
13. Luke Marshall
12. Stuart McCloskey
11. Jacob Stockdale
10. Angus Curtis
9. John Cooney

1. Jack McGrath
2. Rob Herring (captain)
3. Marty Moore
4. Alan O’Connor
5. Sam Carter
6. Sean Reidy
7. Jordi Murphy
8. Nick Timoney.

Only 4 in the XV overall if I'm not mistaken. Stockdale, McCloskey, Marshall and Lyttle? That's not a good look.

Still that's a decent pack and the outside backs are good too. Should hopefully mean a good game.

Paul Smeenus · 08-11-2019 2:26pm

Replacements: Adam McBurney, Eric O’Sullivan, Tom O’Toole, Kieran Treadwell, Matthew Rea, David Shanahan, Bill Johnston, Robert Baloucoune.

8 native Ulstermen overall, 13 Academy products.

Wonder are McBurney and O'Toole passing their older, less talented peers? Delighted to see Rob B back.

bilston · 08-11-2019 2:46pm

The biggest talking point is Angus Curtis at 10. He has looked impressive off the bench at 12. Will be interesting.

However is Burns injured?

launish116 · 08-11-2019 3:20pm

Clegg wrote: »

Ulster team named. Not a single home grown player in the pack. We know Ulster have a problem up front. But seeing the line up hammers it home. Doing much better with the backs though.

Guessing Rea is rotation, he's played every game so far? Henderson given an extra weeks rest

It is plain to see and has been for seasons, but I do think the academy is slowly starting to churn out some prospects in the forwards. Just give them another season or two.

That aside that's still a lot stronger team than I envisaged.

bilston · 08-11-2019 3:26pm

launish116 wrote: »

Guessing Rea is rotation, he's played every game so far? Henderson given an extra weeks rest

It is plain to see and has been for seasons, but I do think the academy is slowly starting to churn out some prospects in the forwards. Just give them another season or two.

That aside that's still a lot stronger team than I envisaged.

Still missing at least four starters in Henderson, Coetzee, Burns and Gilroy... arguably Ludik as well and for me anyway Treadwell would start against Bath next week.

Paul Smeenus · 08-11-2019 7:36pm

bilston wrote: »

Still missing at least four starters in Henderson, Coetzee, Burns and Gilroy... arguably Ludik as well and for me anyway Treadwell would start against Bath next week.

Addison and Lowry probably preferred to Ludik.

bilston · 08-11-2019 8:29pm

Paul Smeenus wrote: »

Addison and Lowry probably preferred to Ludik.

To be honest I forgot about Addison!

mogwai81 · 09-11-2019 10:23pm

How did Jack McGrath play? If he can rediscover something close to his pre lions form and Eric O’Sullivan can continue his form from last season, Ulster will have serious depth among the props.

bilston · 10-11-2019 1:20am

mogwai81 wrote: »

How did Jack McGrath play? If he can rediscover something close to his pre lions form and Eric O’Sullivan can continue his form from last season, Ulster will have serious depth among the props.

McGrath seems to have given the scrum a boost, but O'Sullivan is more impressive around the park.

mogwai81 · 10-11-2019 1:27am

bilston wrote: »

McGrath seems to have given the scrum a boost, but O'Sullivan is more impressive around the park.

Hopefully O‘Sullivan will improve his scrummaging working with McGrath ( not that it’s poor, judging on last year). Like you said, he already offers more around the park.

Buer · 10-11-2019 1:51am

McGrath was never a tyro with ball in hand. At his best, he had an incredible work rate in defence and at clearing out. He's going to be an excellent signing but he's not going to burst through defenders in the loose ever.

He's precisely what Munster need though if guys like Coetzee and Henderson are fit and firing.

I reckon Ulster are still going to be far too reliant on a select group for carrying the ball though. I don't think there will be more than half the pack capable of bursting though a tackle.

bilston · 10-11-2019 9:43am

So preferred team for next week.

1 McGrath
2 Herring
3 Moore
4 Henderson
5 Carter
6 Rea
7 Murphy
8 Coetzee
9 Cooney
10 Burns
11 Stockdale (lucky boy)
12 McCloskey
13 Marshall
14 Gilroy
15 Ludik

Rob Lyttle would be the unluckiest man in Ulster, but I don't see Stockdale being dropped. But he needs to sort himself out. I wouldn't be against starting McBurney at hooker either, but doubt that would happen.

jacothelad · 10-11-2019 10:56am

Buer wrote: »

McGrath was never a tyro with ball in hand. At his best, he had an incredible work rate in defence and at clearing out. He's going to be an excellent signing but he's not going to burst through defenders in the loose ever.

He's precisely what Munster need though if guys like Coetzee and Henderson are fit and firing.

I reckon Ulster are still going to be far too reliant on a select group for carrying the ball though. I don't think there will be more than half the pack capable of bursting though a tackle.

EOS, Tom O'Toole, Henderson, Carter, Coetzee, Treadwell, Murphy(?) and Reidy are all guys who can carry with different degrees of success. Not sure about any of the young guys coming through. Treadwell is a very interesting player. He's huge and fast and can pass properly, win l/o ball and he tackles like a train. For a second row he is still young too and seems on an upward trajectory. I hope he continues to improve.

mogwai81 · 10-11-2019 12:28pm

bilston wrote: »

So preferred team for next week.

1 McGrath
2 Herring
3 Moore
4 Henderson
5 Carter
6 Rea
7 Murphy
8 Coetzee
9 Cooney
10 Burns
11 Stockdale (lucky boy)
12 McCloskey
13 Marshall
14 Gilroy
15 Ludik

Rob Lyttle would be the unluckiest man in Ulster, but I don't see Stockdale being dropped. But he needs to sort himself out. I wouldn't be against starting McBurney at hooker either, but doubt that would happen.

I was surprised towards the end of last season to see Stockdale at 15 and Ludik at 11. I wonder is there a chance we could see Stockdale at 15 and Lyttle at 11. Maybe the first round of Europe is deemed too important to try it.

Paul Smeenus · 10-11-2019 12:50pm

jacothelad wrote: »

EOS, Tom O'Toole, Henderson, Carter, Coetzee, Treadwell, Murphy(?) and Reidy are all guys who can carry with different degrees of success. Not sure about any of the young guys coming through. Treadwell is a very interesting player. He's huge and fast and can pass properly, win l/o ball and he tackles like a train. For a second row he is still young too and seems on an upward trajectory. I hope he continues to improve.

Treaders completely stalled under Gibbes, and looks much closer to fulfilling his potential under McFarland. Hopefully his trajectory continues - he night feature for Ireland again.

Need to rewatch the game, but not too disconsolate, given the players we held back and rotated out. Our fourth choice OH had his first start at ten, having seemingly previously been moved to centre. No idea who our equivalent would even have been last season... Nelson?

Hopefully Burns' return will help steady Stockdale. A couple of dinks over for Jacob to regather, or those crossfire kicks Burns ha started to nail. Should be good for Jacob's confidence. Speaking of whom, I also think that Burns has started to become pretty important to us - he's unshowy but good. For all that many fans tend to think of him as a stopgap, he was pulling the strings during our European run last season. He was there when we went toe to toe with Leinster, when we turned it around away to Leicester, when we got those good wins at home. He's not a world beater, but he is under-rated.

I also see that BBC NI are now going to produce a highlights package. Would be surprised if the rights don't end up with them again - they're too important to the organisation. The reason they didn't get them last time was because BBC Scotland didn't contribute much to the bid, leaving NI and BBC Wales hanging.

It hasn't been a straightforward kick on at the start of this season, but I suspect there's quite a bit of evolution happening behind the scenes. Just need to step up for Bath now. Can't afford to come away with no points.

Squidgy Black · 10-11-2019 1:11pm

mogwai81 wrote: »

I was surprised towards the end of last season to see Stockdale at 15 and Ludik at 11. I wonder is there a chance we could see Stockdale at 15 and Lyttle at 11. Maybe the first round of Europe is deemed too important to try it.

With the form Stockdale's in at the moment it'd be mental to stick him at 15 for Europe, some of his defensive reads have been awful.

Sinbad_NI · 10-11-2019 2:23pm

I'd have Little in the team over Stockdale at the minute.

He's been fantastic every time he been on the pitch this year. Stockdale is in shocking form.

bilston · 10-11-2019 2:56pm

Paul Smeenus wrote: »

Treaders completely stalled under Gibbes, and looks much closer to fulfilling his potential under McFarland. Hopefully his trajectory continues - he night feature for Ireland again.

Need to rewatch the game, but not too disconsolate, given the players we held back and rotated out. Our fourth choice OH had his first start at ten, having seemingly previously been moved to centre. No idea who our equivalent would even have been last season... Nelson?

Hopefully Burns' return will help steady Stockdale. A couple of dinks over for Jacob to regather, or those crossfire kicks Burns ha started to nail. Should be good for Jacob's confidence. Speaking of whom, I also think that Burns has started to become pretty important to us - he's unshowy but good. For all that many fans tend to think of him as a stopgap, he was pulling the strings during our European run last season. He was there when we went toe to toe with Leinster, when we turned it around away to Leicester, when we got those good wins at home. He's not a world beater, but he is under-rated.

I also see that BBC NI are now going to produce a highlights package. Would be surprised if the rights don't end up with them again - they're too important to the organisation. The reason they didn't get them last time was because BBC Scotland didn't contribute much to the bid, leaving NI and BBC Wales hanging.

It hasn't been a straightforward kick on at the start of this season, but I suspect there's quite a bit of evolution happening behind the scenes. Just need to step up for Bath now. Can't afford to come away with no points.

I think there have been some steps forward. Carter is proving quietly impressive, getting Moore back makes a big difference (although TOT has done well and is developing all the time). Add Henderson and Coetzee are we should kick on even more next week.

I agree with everything you say about Burns. He was never as bad as some made out last season anyway. He improved as the season went on, and this year he has kicked on quite a bit.

Oh and having Luke back in midfield is really important.

I think we've improved a bit from last season, but the extent of that improvement will only be known after we've played a few big European games.

We are definitely better off now than we were this time last season. But last year the real improvements weren't seen until after Christmas.

mogwai81 · 10-11-2019 4:47pm

Squidgy Black wrote: »

With the form Stockdale's in at the moment it'd be mental to stick him at 15 for Europe, some of his defensive reads have been awful.

Fair point, but maybe it’s better to move position now, instead of moving a form player out of position. I just feel fullback could eventually be Stockdale‘s best position. Barring injury, I would love to see...

15. Stockdale
14. Baloucoune
13. Addison
12. McCloskey
11. Lyttle
10. Burns
9. Cooney
8. Coetzee
7. Murphy
6. Rea
5. Carter
4. Henderson
3. Moore
2. Herring
1. McGrath

Sinbad_NI · 10-11-2019 8:15pm

Burns was really good in the big games last year.

It was in some of the "easier" league games he seemed to go missing a bit.

Henry Ford III · 11-11-2019 11:43am

Moore's conditioning is suspect. He looks a few stone overweight.

Utah_Saint · 11-11-2019 12:21pm

Henry Ford III wrote: »

Moore's conditioning is suspect. He looks a few stone overweight.

I thought that was his default setting...

Digifriendly · 11-11-2019 5:23pm

Bath completely out-muscled Northampton at the weekend so Ulster need to step up a gear.

launish116 · 11-11-2019 6:51pm

Henry Ford III wrote: »

Moore's conditioning is suspect. He looks a few stone overweight.

He’s only back from injury, never was gonna have the match fitness.

Dubinusa · 11-11-2019 7:16pm

Moore was great last season. I think if he performs like last season, he'll be capped internationally again.
Bath are a big strong side. Ulster will be in a war! Fades should not be in the 23, based on his current form.
It appears Rea is the primary 6. He's a great prospect and I really hate him. Along with Nordi and Coetzee, that's a good looking back row. Timoney and Jones are very good replacements also.
Ulster could be a tough side to face for anyone this year.

mogwai81 · 11-11-2019 7:34pm

Has Matty Rea really improved this year, or had he always the attributes required and was just held back by injuries?

launish116 · 11-11-2019 8:18pm

mogwai81 wrote: »

Has Matty Rea really improved this year, or had he always the attributes required and was just held back by injuries?

I really rate Rea Snr and want him to push on, the blindside is his to lock down! He has the attributes and the current injury free run is really highlighting it. Would like to see him a little more offensive though, but it is developing.

Guessing based on rotation we’re looking at a Rea, Murphy, Coetzee backrow for Bath.

bilston · 11-11-2019 9:09pm

mogwai81 wrote: »

Has Matty Rea really improved this year, or had he always the attributes required and was just held back by injuries?

He is becoming a more effective carrier and his lineout work is impressive. It's a tight call between himself and Reidy.

For me Rea starts, but it could go either way.

Locke_Lamora · 12-11-2019 4:51pm

3 year extension for Lyttle. Awesome player.

Dubinusa · 12-11-2019 6:49pm

What about Dalton? Has he improved? Should he get a senior contract? I suppose Regan would be in the same boat, but I think he may have lost a season to injury?
Angus Kernohan is not getting into the squad, he is only 20 and I think he will be a star in the future. He might be a candidate to loan out?

Paul Smeenus · 12-11-2019 7:35pm

Dubinusa wrote: »

What about Dalton? Has he improved? Should he get a senior contract? I suppose Regan would be in the same boat, but I think he may have lost a season to injury?
Angus Kernohan is not getting into the squad, he is only 20 and I think he will be a star in the future. He might be a candidate to loan out?

I think Kernohan is solid for a young wing, and he's game. But for me, he'd be behind Stockdale, Gilroy, Baloucoune, Lyttle and possibly Faddes, if he gets back the form he had in the SH. I certainly don't think he'll be a star in the future.

Locke_Lamora · 12-11-2019 8:29pm

Dubinusa wrote: »

What about Dalton? Has he improved? Should he get a senior contract? I suppose Regan would be in the same boat, but I think he may have lost a season to injury?
Angus Kernohan is not getting into the squad, he is only 20 and I think he will be a star in the future. He might be a candidate to loan out?

I wouldn’t say Kernohan has shown anything to suggest he might be a star. A lot can change obviously and development is difficult to predict, but I would be surprised if he turned out better than any of Stockdale, Lyttle, Baloucoune, Gilroy, Faddes or Addison. I’d wager McIlroy from the academy will overtake him long term as well.

Locke_Lamora · 12-11-2019 8:34pm

Any there’s no real harm in him not being in the squad right now. He got playing time last year due to retirements and an injury crisis, but I don’t really think he’s quite at the right standard yet. If you look at Leinster the have a couple young backs coming through now who played in the u20’s with Stockdale.

Ulster Team Talk Thread IV... Go On My Henderson...

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