Formula 1 2019 - Round 4 - Baku

Thrashssacre · 28-04-2019 2:20pm

Wouldn’t a race without awful Ferrari strategy

Thrashssacre · 28-04-2019 2:23pm

Leclerc going backwards on softs gap to verstappen is increasing.

kopite386 · 28-04-2019 2:30pm

Gasly really hampered LeClerc's race. Jeez between fighting each other after LeClerc's pit stop and now the VSC

ayux4rj6zql2ph · 28-04-2019 2:38pm

4 Mercedes 1-2 finishes from the beginning of the season, I don’t think Ferrari even managed that.

skipper_G · 28-04-2019 2:41pm

Please God, do this season a major solid and let the 2 Mercs crash into each other

Edit: not going to happen, Toto finger on the button giving them the order to hold station no doubt

Itssoeasy · 28-04-2019 2:44pm

It's the hope of something changing that gets you as an F1 fan when it's become boring.

ayux4rj6zql2ph · 28-04-2019 2:46pm

Another dull race at the end

Widdensushi · 28-04-2019 2:46pm

till next season, good luck

antodeco · 28-04-2019 2:47pm

Toto looked really angry there when Bottas finished first, until he realised the camera was on him!

namloc1980 · 28-04-2019 2:48pm

Ugh, another Merc procession at the front and crap Ferrari strategy. Rinse and repeat each race weekend.

Needles73 · 28-04-2019 2:48pm

antodeco wrote: »

Toto looked really angry there when Bottas finished first, until he realised the camera was on him!

Yep, he let the guard down

Burkie1203 · 28-04-2019 2:48pm

This is crap. Motor racing minus the racing

28-04-2019 2:50pm

So the top places were as per the grid positions which delivers the obligatory Mercedes one, two. What an unremarkable, predictable and boring race.

skipper_G · 28-04-2019 2:52pm

Amazing achievement for the ultimate underdogs Mercedes. How on earth did they manage to overcome the odds and beat the mighty Ferrari pace they've been talking about since the first pre season test.

It's not like they've won 75% of F1 races since the start of 2014, 5 x World Drivers & 5 x World Constructors Championships and had 4 x 1-2 finishes in a row or anything

cherryghost · 28-04-2019 2:53pm

My head was melting, half the race just talking about tyres. Sad state of affairs (as it has been for years) that we need to bet on a safety car for a better race

Inviere · 28-04-2019 3:05pm

Awful stuff, promised a lot, delivered nothing.

ayux4rj6zql2ph · 28-04-2019 3:07pm

Anyone here purchase a Sky F1 subscription for this year that didn't in previous years? cancelled mine last year, no regrets based on the first 4 races of 2019.

Acosta · 28-04-2019 3:27pm

Crofty is wrecking my head. Miss the Eir coverage

Cool_CM · 28-04-2019 4:03pm

Recorded and watched back, Ferrari really are their own worst enemy.

Inviere · 28-04-2019 4:10pm

Cool_CM wrote: »

Recorded and watched back, Ferrari really are their own worst enemy.

They really are. Most everyone online is groaning at Mercedes claiming to be the underdog, then wiping everyone out race after race. I still say though that Ferrari are handing positions to Merc through errors, bad strategies, and bad race management, and that the gap between the cars is still ever so slightly in Ferrari’s favour.

ayux4rj6zql2ph · 28-04-2019 4:19pm

I honestly don’t see Vettel winning title number 5, he’s the new Alonso, it’ll elude him for the rest of him career.

Jordan 199 · 28-04-2019 4:46pm

Great double points finishes for Racing Point and McLaren today. Kimi getting a point in the Alfa too.

quokula · 28-04-2019 4:53pm

I'm not sure Ferrari did much wrong - Mercedes were just dominant as usual.

The commentary team were talking nonsense about Leclerc for most of the race, he was on the superior compound for the first stint so obviously he got into a good position, but in reality he was lapping no faster than Gasly who also started on those tyres, and there was no possible strategy that would ever have magically made him competitive once he did pit for softs, unless he got lucky with a safety car for his stop, which was a good reason to keep him out as long as they could. The reality is that he finished the race over a minute behind (would still have been over half a minute behind without the superfluous pitstop for fastest lap) and was about as close to Perez as he was to the top 3.

Mercedes were just not beatable today, Vettel and Verstappen did a decent job of hanging on to their coattails but the result was never in doubt (apart from which Merc would win, the repeated radio calls to Bottas telling him not to bother going fast followed by Hamilton getting into DRS range made me expect a position swap, surprised it didn't happen)

Inviere · 28-04-2019 5:45pm

quokula wrote: »

I'm not sure Ferrari did much wrong - Mercedes were just dominant as usual.

The commentary team were talking nonsense about Leclerc for most of the race, he was on the superior compound for the first stint so obviously he got into a good position, but in reality he was lapping no faster than Gasly who also started on those tyres, and there was no possible strategy that would ever have magically made him competitive once he did pit for softs, unless he got lucky with a safety car for his stop, which was a good reason to keep him out as long as they could. The reality is that he finished the race over a minute behind (would still have been over half a minute behind without the superfluous pitstop for fastest lap) and was about as close to Perez as he was to the top 3.

Mercedes were just not beatable today, Vettel and Verstappen did a decent job of hanging on to their coattails but the result was never in doubt (apart from which Merc would win, the repeated radio calls to Bottas telling him not to bother going fast followed by Hamilton getting into DRS range made me expect a position swap, surprised it didn't happen)

Charles had an extra set of brand new sorts because he didn’t take part in Q3. Could they have two stopped him, once his meejums got him to the front and they went off the boil, then stopped him again later on? Seems better than what they did, just left him out there on worn out tires lap after lap losing time to everyone

Gwynplaine · 28-04-2019 6:09pm

Poor Bottas, Toto will put the hammer down later in the season and let Lewis win championship. This championship will be over by August.
Snore.

Ghost Train · 28-04-2019 7:53pm

Given the nature of the track, Ferrari were probably hanging on with Leclerc waiting for a safety car, two stop might have been better strategy but I think he still would have struggled to be more than one place higher

Harika · 28-04-2019 7:56pm

Everyone was holding out for the safety car called Godot.

recyclebin · 28-04-2019 9:15pm

Pretty embarrassed for Ricciardo. Taking out himself and another driver in reverse. Otherwise a pretty boring race.

mickdw · 28-04-2019 9:50pm

Brundle must be telling the truth all these years that you can see zero in the mirrors of f1 cars.

AMKC · 28-04-2019 9:54pm

Well that was a boring race. Delighted for Bottas getting the win do after what happened to him here last year just a pity the race was so boring.

pyramuid man · 28-04-2019 11:31pm

Watched the highlights. All a bit meh if you ask me. Watching c4 with Gunther Steiner was a bit of entertainment though. He is a great character.

steinbock123 · 28-04-2019 11:39pm

To be fair to Bottas he drove a good race under a fair bit of pressure. Hamilton tried his best to out-do him at the first few corners but failed. You can be sure that if the world championship was at stake and Hamilton was defending a small points lead, that his driving would not have been quite so gentlemanly.
What will Hamilton come up with next - he has a skull cap or something similar on under his Mercedes hat on the podium, according to EJ he got a new tattoo yesterday (he’ll have one on his face next!) and he came out to the podium with a pus on him, the usual carry on when he’s beaten. If you were to believe a later interview, Bottas didn’t win because he drove so well, it was because Hamilton had a below par day.
Yes , you’re right, I don’t like the hamster.

pjohnson · 29-04-2019 9:53am

Would it be Rueda coming up with these strategies for Ferrari? I thought he'd have been gone when Binotto took over. He should be.

LollipopJimmy · 29-04-2019 10:23am

I really don't see what Ferrari could have done differently with strategy, 2 stopping was never going to work and the softs only had 18/20 laps in them.

bottar1 · 29-04-2019 12:48pm

LollipopJimmy wrote: »

I really don't see what Ferrari could have done differently with strategy, 2 stopping was never going to work and the softs only had 18/20 laps in them.

The whole tyre thing sucks, most tracks have only 1 tyre compound that actually works.

Everyone was having trouble with any compound other than Medium, some more than others.

There isn't really much of a choice in tyres at many of the circuits. And the fact you have to use at-least two different compounds doesn't help when 1 is just so bad it makes the driving harder.

If teams could have gone Medium - > Medium we might have saw some better racing. There is no way the Medium should be faster than the Soft in any circumstance. But it was in almost all circumstances.

corminators · 29-04-2019 1:22pm

Aurelia Kind Bankroll wrote: »

Anyone here purchase a Sky F1 subscription for this year that didn't in previous years? cancelled mine last year, no regrets based on the first 4 races of 2019.

Trying not to give them any money.

I think they like to screw people. They could put F1 on their first SS mobile tier, but don't. They could sell F1 weekend pass on now tv, but won't.
Plus we pay more than UK etc.

Joeface · 29-04-2019 1:48pm

bottar1 wrote:

If teams could have gone Medium - > Medium we might have saw some better racing. There is no way the Medium should be faster than the Soft in any circumstance. But it was in almost all circumstances.

The soft tires have been a joke ,grand for qual one lap . at this stage they should just use the soft for qual , and all should just all be on the mediums for the race .

The race would have also been more entertaining if the midfield hand been shown more. Most of the over taking that was shown was short replays , but the graphic on the side was showing much more over taking.

H3llR4iser · 30-04-2019 12:50pm

Inviere wrote: »

They really are. Most everyone online is groaning at Mercedes claiming to be the underdog, then wiping everyone out race after race. I still say though that Ferrari are handing positions to Merc through errors, bad strategies, and bad race management, and that the gap between the cars is still ever so slightly in Ferrari’s favour.

Yes - that's what most people seem to be missing. When Mercedes say they're on the "backfoot", they actually mean it - what would be the point of "sandbagging" anyway? It's not like Red Bull or Ferrari would be "right, we're gonna walk this lads!".

I've said this before, but all the signs are there pointing to Ferrari having, in fact, the faster car - but they are struggling to understand it and set it up properly. Three times out of four so far, they've arrived at a track and led the early practice, often by a big margin, only to be "swallowed up" by Mercedes and even Red Bull as the week end progresses. This pattern can't just be explained with "engine modes", unless the prancing horse really has a bunch of idiots on the pit wall who push the engine to the max on Fridays.

Barcelona will be interesting indeed - all teams arrive there with plenty of data from the winter tests, and THEORETICALLY setups should be a done thing...

antodeco wrote: »

Toto looked really angry there when Bottas finished first, until he realised the camera was on him!

Nothing new - few remember it, but he celebrated unashamedly when Hamilton overtook Rosberg at the US GP in 2015...some will say because he was "delighted the intra-team battle would be over". Yeah right.

Ghost Train wrote: »

Given the nature of the track, Ferrari were probably hanging on with Leclerc waiting for a safety car, two stop might have been better strategy but I think he still would have struggled to be more than one place higher

Ferrari have been stupidly risk-averse with Leclerc in Baku; One would imagine having a young and fast charger in the car would lend itself to devise more "out there" strategies, but they're just not doing it.

Pitting Charles for softs as soon as he gained the lead - when he had nearly 15s over Bottas - would have put him what, a few seconds behind Hamilton? Then let him belt it out and chew through the new set of tires in 10-15 laps;

This could have gone three ways: best case scenario, the Mercedes would up the pace and shred their own tires, becoming vulnerable and potentially having to pit again before the end; Worst case, Hamilton and Bottas would have let Leclerc go knowing he had to pit again; Then see where he got after the second stop and take it from there - probably 3rd or 4th behind Vettel, but a lot closer to the leaders and with a chance to strike on fresher tires.

Yep, could have ended in the wall too - but that's one of the calculated risks. How many races did Ross Brawn turn around, back then, by just coming up with completely "do or die" strategies for either Schumacher or Barrichello?

d8491prj5boyvg · 30-04-2019 1:21pm

This is terrible. The Sky footage is like propoganda, bigging up the spectacle when there is nothing there to talk about. When the highlight is someone trying to get out of the escape area by putting the car into reverse, there is definitely a problem.

The tyres are rubbish, that needs to change. At least in 2000-2004 there was out and out racing throughout if required.

There's also no midfield battles worth noting. They are all B teams making up the numbers. The odd Toro Rosso or Alfa Romeo win/podium is not exciting as an independent getting a good result.

AMKC · 30-04-2019 9:32pm

Marjorie Microscopic Peppercorn wrote: »

This is terrible. The Sky footage is like propoganda, bigging up the spectacle when there is nothing there to talk about. When the highlight is someone trying to get out of the escape area by putting the car into reverse, there is definitely a problem.

The tyres are rubbish, that needs to change. At least in 2000-2004 there was out and out racing throughout if required.

There's also no midfield battles worth noting. They are all B teams making up the numbers. The odd Toro Rosso or Alfa Romeo win/podium is not exciting as an independent getting a good result.

I agree Sky F1 is crap and that early 00's racing was much better.

Racing Point the now previously Force India team are the only ones really the only independent team and maybe Haas worth watching of the small midfield teams.

pburns · 30-04-2019 9:47pm

corminators wrote: »

Trying not to give them any money.

I think they like to screw people. They could put F1 on their first SS mobile tier, but don't. They could sell F1 weekend pass on now tv, but won't.
Plus we pay more than UK etc.

Exactly why I cancelled. They didn't make it easy either & charged me another month for '30 day notification fee'. Only cemented my determination not to re-subsribe...

Plus I resent paying for an army of presenters (esp Johnny f*****g Herbert). C4 much better - even like Steve Jones.

d8491prj5boyvg · 01-05-2019 10:42am

The statisticians are more important than the engineers nowadays, they can pick out the optimal strategy and they are usually right. All the tweaks are designed to make the job harder for the engineers - they need to make the job harder for the statisticians too. At the moment they can probably predict the best strategy with a very high degree of confidence, maybe 70-80%, it might not be a winning strategy but its the best for their circumstances. We want to introduce more randomness, more permutations on how a race may be won, to make this harder and bring it back to the 90s/00s when it was a pen and paper job.

LollipopJimmy · 01-05-2019 11:09am

I was thinking (yes it did hurt) and it would make things a bit more interesting if the tyres were unmarked and other teams didn't know what the other was running.

Also, starting on the tyres from Q2 severely limits the strategy and limiting variables is what causes the dullness imo

bottar1 · 01-05-2019 12:25pm

LollipopJimmy wrote: »

I was thinking (yes it did hurt) and it would make things a bit more interesting if the tyres were unmarked and other teams didn't know what the other was running.

Also, starting on the tyres from Q2 severely limits the strategy and limiting variables is what causes the dullness imo

Yeah, I really don't understand this rule? It doesn't really add any value to the sport.

Joeface · 01-05-2019 1:12pm

I think that rule was to give advantage to back markers , they get a tire choice an could run longer and hopefully get track position out of it.

At this stage , I think if you get lapped your out would be worth a go . And the different engine modes are a bit annoying . either you can run at that mode all the time or your not allowed have it .

d8491prj5boyvg · 01-05-2019 1:19pm

Joeface wrote: »

I think that rule was to give advantage to back markers , they get a tire choice an could run longer and hopefully get track position out of it.

At this stage , I think if you get lapped your out would be worth a go . And the different engine modes are a bit annoying . either you can run at that mode all the time or your not allowed have it .

That makes sense but I wonder is it undermined by the obligatory change in tyre compounds.

01-05-2019 1:39pm

The tyres are now too predictable while still being too fragile. There are rarely any alternative strategies worth even giving a go. Despite DRS it's still rarely worth pitting again. It used to be a 3-stop was fastest on paper but traffic meant a 2-stop was the more usual successful and safe strategy. Now traffic isn't as much of an issue, pit stops are much shorter but it still isn't worth it.

antodeco · 01-05-2019 1:55pm

They need to introduce a joker lap/activation zone ( Formula E) > Something that will just change things up.

the_pen_turner · 01-05-2019 2:11pm

The problem is that everything is too predictable be tyre life, aero design and function, fuel usage, etc.
Every car is based on the same design ideas. It's only budget that dinw tunes the parts to get a great car. There is no room to come to with a new concept or hair brained idea like yester year

Give the rules an overhaul and let anything be used once it fits a few basic regulations and sizes. Then creativity will be important again not statatisions and computer models

pjohnson · 01-05-2019 4:39pm

I'm suprised no number crunching led to anyone trying to use the hard tyres.

Granted they ARE slower but given how about 12 - 15 Laps on the mediums were basically focused on saving them would it have been possible to push the hards during that period while everyone was busy conserving the mediums.

Formula 1 2019 - Round 4 - Baku

Comments