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Guinness Pro14 Season 2018-2019

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  • Options
    #1622
    MaybeMaybe
    Registered Users Posts: 1,294 ✭✭✭MaybeMaybe


    You'd have to have a rule that requires a minimum number of appearances in regular season to allow you play in the finals series. Or something to that effect. Never going to happen though


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    #1623
    awec
    Administrators Posts: 53,365 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭awec


    errlloyd wrote: »
    I know. I said in the sentence after the one you highlighted that it was a reflection of reality.

    Ha, so you did. :o


  • Options
    #1624
    Burkie1203
    Registered Users Posts: 11,129 ✭✭✭✭Burkie1203


    MaybeMaybe wrote: »
    You'd have to have a rule that requires a minimum number of appearances in regular season to allow you play in the finals series. Or something to that effect. Never going to happen though

    Injuries and 5 fixtures in International windows means that's not viable


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    #1625
    Former Former
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,728 ✭✭✭Former Former


    I don't think anyone really cares tbh. If it's a nice way for some of the players in the weaker teams to get some recognition, then why not?


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    #1626
    troyzer
    Registered Users Posts: 6,199 ✭✭✭troyzer


    Former Former wrote: »
    I don't think anyone really cares tbh. If it's a nice way for some of the players in the weaker teams to get some recognition, then why not?

    Because Munster fans use it as a reason to ignore criticism of POM.

    That reason and that alone.


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    #1627
    Eod100
    Registered Users Posts: 11,638 ✭✭✭✭Eod100


    troyzer wrote: »
    Because Munster fans use it as a reason to ignore criticism of POM.

    That reason and that alone.

    No player is immune to criticism. Just comes down to whether it's deserved or proportional I guess


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    #1628
    troyzer
    Registered Users Posts: 6,199 ✭✭✭troyzer


    Eod100 wrote: »
    troyzer wrote: »
    Because Munster fans use it as a reason to ignore criticism of POM.

    That reason and that alone.

    No player is immune to criticism. Just comes down to whether it's deserved or proportional I guess

    Well some people are claiming he shouldn't be on the plane. That's clearly undeserved.

    At the same time, he's done approximately the square root of **** all since the All Blacks.

    He's not the only one but he's got no work rate to keep him in the team when his big moments stop happening.


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    #1629
    sydthebeat
    Subscribers Posts: 40,994 ✭✭✭✭sydthebeat


    troyzer wrote: »
    He's not the only one but he's got no work rate to keep him in the team when his big moments stop happening.

    I can be critical as the next guy re POM, but I think the issue here isnt his work rate... But more the lack of variation in the with he does.

    He will hit rucks and present quick ball all day long, and he's particularly excellent at that. However at times when the munster front line defense is under the kosh (see saracens) he tends to stand off too much for my liking, looking to make the big play. For a 6 he's a big powerful guy, yet his carrying stats are notoriously poor.... Especially considering that the munster tight five aren't overly blessed with heavy carriers.... So much lands on stander and killers shoulders.

    So I wouldn't be questioning his work rate... As his ruck stats are always top class... I just think he needs to develop his all round game better, which he absolutely can.


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    #1630
    troyzer
    Registered Users Posts: 6,199 ✭✭✭troyzer


    sydthebeat wrote: »
    troyzer wrote: »
    He's not the only one but he's got no work rate to keep him in the team when his big moments stop happening.

    I can be critical as the next guy re POM, but I think the issue here isnt his work rate... But more the lack of variation in the with he does.

    He will hit rucks and present quick ball all day long, and he's particularly excellent at that. However at times when the munster front line defense is under the kosh (see saracens) he tends to stand off too much for my liking, looking to make the big play. For a 6 he's a big powerful guy, yet his carrying stats are notoriously poor.... Especially considering that the munster tight five aren't overly blessed with heavy carriers.... So much lands on stander and killers shoulders.

    So I wouldn't be questioning his work rate... As his ruck stats are always top class... I just think he needs to develop his all round game better, which he absolutely can.

    Present quick ball? He never has more than a handful of carries a game, most of them negative. He can hit rucks, sure. But you need more from your forwards.

    Prowling around looking for the jackal is precisely why he doesn't have huge tackle stats. That is a low work rate when it's not paying off with turnovers.


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    #1631
    Bazzo
    Registered Users Posts: 7,047 ✭✭✭Bazzo


    errlloyd wrote: »
    I'm sort of stuck on this one. On the one hand I think this team does reward players who deserve it. On the other hand, I don't think it sells the league very well when casual rugby fans read it and know basically no one, or fans of other leagues read it etc. I know it's a reflection of reality, but the league should just put its 15 best players down or nothing

    How do you decide the "best" players?

    There's absolutely nothing wrong with the dream team as is. It's a nice overview of players who've done well in the league over the season. It doesn't have to be some sort of billboard to advertise the league, why would it?


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    #1632
    degsie
    Registered Users Posts: 8,729 ✭✭✭degsie


    Leinster :)


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    #1633
    AbusesToilets
    Registered Users Posts: 9,957 ✭✭✭AbusesToilets


    troyzer wrote: »
    Present quick ball? He never has more than a handful of carries a game, most of them negative. He can hit rucks, sure. But you need more from your forwards.

    Prowling around looking for the jackal is precisely why he doesn't have huge tackle stats. That is a low work rate when it's not paying off with turnovers.

    Compare him to Pooper. They play a similar role, being arch jacklers, but also manage to have an impact in all other areas of the game.


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    #1634
    troyzer
    Registered Users Posts: 6,199 ✭✭✭troyzer


    AbusesToilets wrote: »
    troyzer wrote: »
    Present quick ball? He never has more than a handful of carries a game, most of them negative. He can hit rucks, sure. But you need more from your forwards.

    Prowling around looking for the jackal is precisely why he doesn't have huge tackle stats. That is a low work rate when it's not paying off with turnovers.

    Compare him to Pooper. They play a similar role, being arch jacklers, but also manage to have an impact in all other areas of the game.

    Ah come on now. You can't compare him to Pooper. Pocock is probably the best forward in world rugby when he's healthy, he's unplayable. Hooper is nothing like POM, he's a proper threat with the ball. He had 9 carries for 38 metres against the Jaguares yesterday.

    In 2018 he had around 200 carries for 700 metres. POM had 170 for 180 metres.

    It's a borderline insult to compare them on graft.


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    #1635
    AbusesToilets
    Registered Users Posts: 9,957 ✭✭✭AbusesToilets


    troyzer wrote: »
    Ah come on now. You can't compare him to Pooper. Pocock is probably the best forward in world rugby when he's healthy, he's unplayable. Hooper is nothing like POM, he's a proper threat with the ball. He had 9 carries for 38 metres against the Jaguares yesterday.

    In 2018 he had around 200 carries for 700 metres. POM had 170 for 180 metres.

    It's a borderline insult to compare them on graft.

    Well, that's kind of my point. He is lauded for his breakdown work, but even that I would say isn't all it's cracked up to be. Pooper, Warburton, even SOB back in the day, were complete players.


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    #1636
    troyzer
    Registered Users Posts: 6,199 ✭✭✭troyzer


    AbusesToilets wrote: »
    troyzer wrote: »
    Ah come on now. You can't compare him to Pooper. Pocock is probably the best forward in world rugby when he's healthy, he's unplayable. Hooper is nothing like POM, he's a proper threat with the ball. He had 9 carries for 38 metres against the Jaguares yesterday.

    In 2018 he had around 200 carries for 700 metres. POM had 170 for 180 metres.

    It's a borderline insult to compare them on graft.

    Well, that's kind of my point. He is lauded for his breakdown work, but even that I would say isn't all it's cracked up to be. Pooper, Warburton, even SOB back in the day, were complete players.

    Oh sorry, I thought you were trying to make a favourable comparison.

    POM is genuinely capable of epic performances, nobody disputes that. But a Stander, VdF and Conan backrow just clearly sounds like the best one. Conan has improved massively, it would be so unfair to leave him out of the team.


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    #1637
    Burkie1203
    Registered Users Posts: 11,129 ✭✭✭✭Burkie1203


    troyzer wrote: »
    Oh sorry, I thought you were trying to make a favourable comparison.

    POM is genuinely capable of epic performances, nobody disputes that. But a Stander, VdF and Conan backrow just clearly sounds like the best one. Conan has improved massively, it would be so unfair to leave him out of the team.


    At the moment, on form, the Leinster backrow yesterday is the form backrow


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    #1638
    Burkie1203
    Registered Users Posts: 11,129 ✭✭✭✭Burkie1203


    I think this is next season's conferences

    A
    Munster
    Connacht
    Cardiff Blues
    Scarlets
    Glasgow
    Zebre
    CHEETAHS

    B
    Leinster
    Ulster
    Ospreys
    Dragons
    Edinburgh
    Benetton
    Kings


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    #1639
    Cookiemunster
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 11,806 Mod ✭✭✭✭Cookiemunster


    Burkie1203 wrote: »
    I think this is next season's conferences

    A
    Munster
    Connacht
    Cardiff Blues
    Scarlets
    Glasgow
    Zebre
    CHEETAHS

    B
    Leinster
    Ulster
    Ospreys
    Dragons
    Edinburgh
    Benetton
    Kings


    I'm pretty sure it's done on league points, not play off results, so as Munster finished with 1 point more than Leinster they are Ireland 1 and swop conferences with Leinster.


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    #1640
    troyzer
    Registered Users Posts: 6,199 ✭✭✭troyzer


    Burkie1203 wrote: »
    I think this is next season's conferences

    A
    Munster
    Connacht
    Cardiff Blues
    Scarlets
    Glasgow
    Zebre
    CHEETAHS

    B
    Leinster
    Ulster
    Ospreys
    Dragons
    Edinburgh
    Benetton
    Kings

    No you don't. You pinched that from DJ Rossouw, including his capitalised Cheetahs (because he's a Cheetahs fan).

    He himself took it from Wales online but he at least references them.


  • Options
    #1641
    Burkie1203
    Registered Users Posts: 11,129 ✭✭✭✭Burkie1203


    troyzer wrote: »
    No you don't. You pinched that from DJ Rossouw, including his capitalised Cheetahs (because he's a Cheetahs fan).

    He himself took it from Wales online but he at least references them.

    The list he had that i copied was wrong. He has since changed it

    My understanding is Ospreys and Scarlets swap and that's it.


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    #1642
    Jump_In_Jack
    Registered Users Posts: 3,609 ✭✭✭Jump_In_Jack


    I would think it has to be done including playoffs also, not just league finishing places.
    i.e. 1=Leinster (Ire1), 2=Glasgow(Sco1), 3=Munster(Ire2), 4=Ulster(Ire3), 5=Connacht(Ire4), 6=Benetton(Ita1), 7=Ospreys(Wal1), 8=Cardiff(Wal2), 9=Scarlets(Wal3), 10=Edinburgh(Sco2), 11=Cheetahs(SA1), 12=Dragons(Wal4), 13=Kings(SA2), 14=Zebre(Ita2).

    Conference A:
    Ire 1 + 4 = Leinster + Connacht
    Wal 2 + 3 = Cardiff + Scarlets
    Sco 1 = Glasgow
    Ita 2 = Zebre
    SA 2 = Kings

    Conference B:
    Ire 2 + 3 = Munster + Ulster
    Wal 1 + 4 = Ospreys + Dragons
    Sco 2 = Edinburgh
    Ita 1 = Benetton
    SA 1 = Cheetahs

    The swaps would be Munster and Leinster, Ospreys and Scarlets, and Cheetahs and Kings.


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    #1643
    b.gud
    Registered Users Posts: 4,788 ✭✭✭b.gud


    Jump_In_Jack wrote: »
    I would think it has to be done including playoffs also, not just league finishing places.
    i.e. 1=Leinster (Ire1), 2=Glasgow(Sco1), 3=Munster(Ire2), 4=Ulster(Ire3), 5=Connacht(Ire4), 6=Benetton(Ita1), 7=Ospreys(Wal1), 8=Cardiff(Wal2), 9=Scarlets(Wal3), 10=Edinburgh(Sco2), 11=Cheetahs(SA1), 12=Dragons(Wal4), 13=Kings(SA2), 14=Zebre(Ita2).

    Conference A:
    Ire 1 + 4 = Leinster + Connacht
    Wal 2 + 3 = Cardiff + Scarlets
    Sco 1 = Glasgow
    Ita 2 = Zebre
    SA 2 = Kings

    Conference B:
    Ire 2 + 3 = Munster + Ulster
    Wal 1 + 4 = Ospreys + Dragons
    Sco 2 = Edinburgh
    Ita 1 = Benetton
    SA 1 = Cheetahs

    The swaps would be Munster and Leinster, Ospreys and Scarlets, and Cheetahs and Kings.

    Like you I would have assume that it would be done on final positions rather than league standing but on the Under sticks podcast, the official Pro14 podcast, the media guy for the Pro14 talked about it. He said that they merged the conferences into one table and used that for the seedings. He didn't specifically state that it was based on end of regular season standings but that was the way it sounded.


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    #1644
    errlloyd
    Registered Users Posts: 12,600 ✭✭✭✭errlloyd


    https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.walesonline.co.uk/sport/rugby/rugby-news/wales-stage-pro14-final-first-16342055.amp

    Pro14 final in Cardiff next year. The stadium is 10k smaller than the average attendance from the last two years. But I guess they're assuming both sets of fans will be travelling!


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    #1645
    aloooof
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 10,221 Mod ✭✭✭✭aloooof


    errlloyd wrote: »
    https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.walesonline.co.uk/sport/rugby/rugby-news/wales-stage-pro14-final-first-16342055.amp

    Pro14 final in Cardiff next year. The stadium is 10k smaller than the average attendance from the last two years. But I guess they're assuming both sets of fans will be travelling!

    It'll never happen (for quite awhile at least) but I'd love to see it being hosted in Italy at some stage.


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    #1646
    Eod100
    Registered Users Posts: 11,638 ✭✭✭✭Eod100


    Simon Thomas seemed to be hinting at that for a while so must have the inside scoop. Capacity only 33k


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    #1647
    Podge_irl
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 25,291 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    Eod100 wrote: »
    Simon Thomas seemed to be hinting at that for a while so must have the inside scoop. Capacity only 33k

    I have vague recollections of him defending it as being big enough despite it being under the attendance for the last 2 years. It’s in a crap part of Cardiff too though at least with the limited capacity the chronic shortage of beds in Cardiff won’t be such an issue.


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    #1648
    Burkie1203
    Registered Users Posts: 11,129 ✭✭✭✭Burkie1203


    b.gud wrote: »
    Like you I would have assume that it would be done on final positions rather than league standing but on the Under sticks podcast, the official Pro14 podcast, the media guy for the Pro14 talked about it. He said that they merged the conferences into one table and used that for the seedings. He didn't specifically state that it was based on end of regular season standings but that was the way it sounded.

    Simon Thomas had an article about 6 weeks ago and at the time Leinster would have been in A but the last few weeks results changed everything. He says it's all based on the regular season fixtures and at the time there would have been 3 sides from each Conference swapping

    Conference A:
    Ire 1 + 4 = Munster + Connacht
    Wal 2 + 3 = Blues + Scarlets
    Sco 1 = Glasgow
    Ita 2 = Zebre
    SA 1 = Cheetahs

    Conference B:
    Ire 2 + 3 = Leinster + Ulster
    Wal 1 + 4 = Ospreys + Dragons
    Sco 2 = Edinburgh
    Ita 1 = Benetton
    SA 2 = Kings


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    #1649
    bennyl10
    Registered Users Posts: 5,509 ✭✭✭bennyl10


    Burkie1203 wrote: »
    Simon Thomas had an article about 6 weeks ago and at the time Leinster would have been in A but the last few weeks results changed everything. He says it's all based on the regular season fixtures and at the time there would have been 3 sides from each Conference swapping

    Conference A:
    Ire 1 + 4 = Munster + Connacht
    Wal 2 + 3 = Blues + Scarlets
    Sco 1 = Glasgow
    Ita 2 = Zebre
    SA 1 = Cheetahs

    Conference B:
    Ire 2 + 3 = Leinster + Ulster
    Wal 1 + 4 = Ospreys + Dragons
    Sco 2 = Edinburgh
    Ita 1 = Benetton
    SA 2 = Kings


    Yes it’s seemingly based on regular season, so Munster would be irish one

    No real change..


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    #1650
    Eod100
    Registered Users Posts: 11,638 ✭✭✭✭Eod100


    Speaking of.. https://twitter.com/simonrug/status/1133696188954423296?s=19


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    #1651
    Riskymove
    Registered Users Posts: 10,885 ✭✭✭✭Riskymove


    we shouldn't forget that they chose not to change conferences this season in order to "develop intra conference rivalries" or something

    Munster should have swapped conferences if I recall


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