Energy infrastructure

L1011 wrote: »

The 530m is not the total cost covered, I believe it's well over a billion already

Yes, but that is quiet normal for power plants. This will have just sort of the same capacity as Moneypoint, by far our largest power plant.

To put this in context, Moneypoint was built in 1985 for a cost of €890m and was refurbished in 2008 for a cost of another €350m. The ESB had to write off the cost of the plant last year as it is now worthless! Due to being a coal plant and too polluting. They have gotten barely 20 years out of what should have been 50+ years. They had to take a €150m impairment on the investment last year. Now that is all a stupid waste.

By comparison this 500m of our money for clean energy and similar capacity is a super deal.

That is what makes this Shannon LNG project so weird, we already have plenty of gas importation infrastructure!!

We now have two gas interconnetors directly to Britain. The second was opened just last year at a cost of 100 million. We also have an interconnector with Northern Ireland, who then have their own third interconnector to Britain.

These interconnectors are capable of delivering all our current gas needs.

Note that in 2017 an issue at Corrib meant that it couldn't supply gas and in fact extra gas from the UK had to be pumped to Corrib to help resolve the problem. All our gas needs then was easily handled by the interconnectors and that was beforethe latest new third one came online!

And keep in mind, the usage of gas is expected to drop over the next 10 years, as we use less for electricity generation due to more wind use and from homes getting better insulation.

So why exactly do we need these LNG terminals at a cost of 500 million?

There isn't even a cost argument, building these terminals is expected to actually increase the cost of gas here!! The reason being, we have to pay for the interconnectors even if they aren't used. So if we build these LNG terminals, then you have to pay the 500 million for building them, then pay for the gas and still continue to pay for the interconnectors! Madness.

It really makes no sense to me at all. Gas will remain part of our energy mix, but we already have the infrastructure to import it, there is no threat of us running out of it.

Originally the reason they thought they would need Shannon LNG, because they thought there would be greatly increasing demand with Moneypoint switching off and that it would be converted to a natural gas plant. Of course that isn't happening now, wind power advanced much faster then expected and now we simply don't need Moneypoint and we are going quicker and quicker to wind. We will still need gas of course, but less and less and we already have plenty capacity with the interconnectors.

This really feels like it isn't needed at all and would end up another 500 million stranded asset like Moneypoint.

I'd rather see 500 million to be invested in even more wind farms and use the extra energy to generate biogas or Hydrogen to pump into the gas network. That would be more environmentally friendly.

This LNG project stinks of corporate profiteering bs. This stinks of gas companies scrambling to try and stay relevant in the face of greatly dropping demand. Look at the guy in the linked article. Chariman of the Port of Cork, but the former CEO of Bord Gais! Why should he care, well they have plans for a second LNG terminal in Cork and they are also desperately trying to come up with ways to reuse the facilities in Cork and the Kinsale gas fields, with talk of storing more gas there or switching to carbon capture and pumping carbon back into the Kinsale gas fields.

I really haven't heard a good logical reason why we need these LNG terminals, versus the existing interconnectors + biogas/hydrogen.

I just wanted to add, the Gas Networks Ireland seem to be completely uninterested and unimpressed by this Shannon LNG project.

Last year the CEO of GNI pointed out that they believe that there are another 12 to 15 years of gas left in Corrib and that even when it runs out, our two interconnectors are easily capable of delivering on all needs for gas.

GNI's vision for 2050 document that they published last year doesn't even mention the LNG projects. Instead their vision is to move to net zero carbon by 2050 via a combination of biogas generation + hydrogen generation + carbon capture storage tech.

Now I'm somewhat dubious about this GNI plan, but despite that, there really doesn't seem to be any need for these LNG terminals.

And of course this is all assuming that wind + storage tech doesn't progress faster then expected. I wouldn't bet against it, massive amounts of money world wide are being pumped into storage tech development projects and previous estimates on wind development have been completely blown away But even if storage tech doesn't pan out, it doesn't mean there is any fundamental threat to our gas supply.

The reason why the government so easily agreed to give up on it when going into coalition with the Greens, is because it was already such a dubious project with little real demand behind it. It was likely to never happen anyway, so easier to blame the greens/give them a win.

If we are wrong on this, we can always relatively easily revisit it. But it isn't like we are going to suddenly run out of electricity/gas because of a lack of it.

I do think if we were to build this, we would most likely end up with another Moneypoint.