Energy infrastructure

Sam Russell · 20-10-2019 7:45pm

loyatemu wrote: »

TBH, I don't care either way. The ones on the Arklow bank are certainly visible from the beach at Brittas Bay, I'm not sure how far out they are but I assume these new ones will be a) taller and b) more numerous.

The last time turbines were proposed for off Dalkey there was all sorts of nonsense about "spoiling the view" so I expect the same this time.

I'm sure the Eiffel Tower spoilt the view in Paris - so much so they wanted it torn down not long after it was built. Now they spend a fortune looking after it.

The windmills will become an attraction in time. [Windmills sounds better than wind turbines.]

Last Stop · 20-10-2019 9:24pm

Sam Russell wrote: »

I'm sure the Eiffel Tower spoilt the view in Paris - so much so they wanted it torn down not long after it was built. Now they spend a fortune looking after it.

The windmills will become an attraction in time. [Windmills sounds better than wind turbines.]

When the Eiffel Tower first open, there was protest held underneath it because the protesters argued it was the only place in Paris where you couldn’t see it

Can’t see the same argument being made here

loyatemu · 20-10-2019 10:04pm

Sam Russell wrote: »

I'm sure the Eiffel Tower spoilt the view in Paris - so much so they wanted it torn down not long after it was built. Now they spend a fortune looking after it.

The windmills will become an attraction in time. [Windmills sounds better than wind turbines.]

I'm not sure they'll become an attraction but I'm sure people will get used to them - look at the Poolbeg chimneys.

(famously Guy de Maupassant used to eat at the Eiffel Tower restaurant because it was the only place in Paris you couldn't see the Eiffel Tower from...)

dubhthach · 21-10-2019 10:05am

spacetweek wrote: »

10 km off the coast means you won't be able to see the turbines from the shore. Unless you're up on a hill.

I can clearly see the Kish Lighthouse from my desk and that's nearly 14km's away.

Personally as someone who lives in Dun Laoghaire I actually welcome this proposal to build offshore wind farms. No doubt though our TD's will run a typical NIMBY campaign against it.

Apogee · 03-11-2019 12:07pm

Indepedent wrote:

Irish renewable energy company DP Energy has started the process of developing its first offshore wind farm off the coast of Cork, which could involve an investment worth an estimated €1.76bn. The company has sought an investigative foreshore licence from the Department of Housing, Planning and Local Government to conduct a feasibility study of the Inis Ealga Marine Energy Park, which is to be located at least 10km from the shore of Co Cork. DP Energy estimates the project could generate around 720 megawatts (MW) of wind energy a year, enough to supply the annual electricity needs of more than 700,000 homes. Based on figures from the UK, it could create up to 650 construction and maintenance jobs.

https://www.independent.ie/business/jobs/irish-energy-group-in-1-8bn-offshore-cork-wind-farm-plan-38655027.html

Eirgrid have meanwhile outlined a 20 year road plan.

Irish Times wrote:

Ireland’s transmission system operator EirGrid has released its latest analysis of how Ireland’s electricity sector might evolve over the next 20 years. Two scenarios meet the challenge of ensuring 70 per cent of power on the grid comes from renewables by 2030; the third is likely to mean Ireland fails to meet climate and energy objectives, as it assumes a slow pace among consumers in embracing decarbonisation options.

https://www.irishtimes.com/business/energy-and-resources/national-grid-operator-outlines-20-year-vision-for-electricity-1.4066284

Markcheese · 04-11-2019 3:12am

I'd missed the Cork offshore windfarm, and didn't realise they could do floating wind turbines, most of the structures will probably be too far out to see, but some of them would be visable from power head and probably inch beach, (no problem there for me),
Where I could foresea an issue would be for fishing trawlers, its a huge area, and with under sea cables it'd be off limits to trawlers,
The upside is it would end up as a marine reserve...

NIMAN · 04-11-2019 3:18am

If people have this obsession with "spoiling the view" or "not in my area", then trying to improve energy infrastructure is doomed.

The right to object will have to be taken off us if we have this attitude.

Needs must.

hans aus dtschl · 04-11-2019 10:46am

Apogee wrote: »

Eirgrid have meanwhile outlined a 20 year road plan.

https://www.irishtimes.com/business/energy-and-resources/national-grid-operator-outlines-20-year-vision-for-electricity-1.4066284

I noted this bit:

Community action: Sustainability and “economic circularity” are core to future decisions, so consumers recognise climate change is a risk and take appropriate action, though there is still high demand for power. Transformation of the energy sector is most evident on the demand side, notably in the adoption of smart technology and microgeneration, where small generators are feeding into the grid, while battery storage options are realised.

Eirgrid still don't actually allow domestic users to get paid to feed the grid though, do they?
In that case, calling the above "community action" while simultaneously prohibiting it would seem a little bit unfair. It'd need to be an "Eirgrid Action" before it could be a "Community Action".

Sam Russell · 04-11-2019 11:25am

hans aus dtschl wrote: »

I noted this bit:

Eirgrid still don't actually allow domestic users to get paid to feed the grid though, do they?
In that case, calling the above "community action" while simultaneously prohibiting it would seem a little bit unfair. It'd need to be an "Eirgrid Action" before it could be a "Community Action".

I thought it was ESB Networks who would pay the feed-in tariff not Eirgrid.

hans aus dtschl · 04-11-2019 11:59am

Sam Russell wrote: »

I thought it was ESB Networks who would pay the feed-in tariff not Eirgrid.

You could well be right.
I don't know a lot other than some people have complained to me that they get nothing back for feeding the grid. It seems like an oversight, notwithstanding the associated issues like California is facing with the "duck curve".

Apogee · 09-11-2019 3:44pm

Irish Times wrote:

The ESB has announced the closure of two peat-powered generating plants after failing to secure permission to switch them to biomass power stations. The plants – at Shannonbridge in Offaly and Lanesboro, Co Longford – will stop generating electricity from December 2020. In a statement, ESB noted that the current planning permissions for the plants expire at the end of next year and said their closure marks the end of power generation solely from burning peat in the State. Lanesboro produced 135 megawatts of power and Lough Ree Power produced 100 megawatts; together, they could power about 245,000 homes.

https://www.irishtimes.com/business/energy-and-resources/esb-to-close-two-peat-powere

Do other stations still in use partially burn peat for energy generation?

hmmm · 09-11-2019 4:59pm

I'm surprised more is not made of renewables avoiding us having to send billions to Middle East & Russian despots. Whatever about the environmental benefits, we should be trying to develop as much of the infrastructure to build and operate these systems in Ireland, as it is money which is recycled back into our economy and the economy of Europe. The only figures I have to hand are from 2014, where we had energy imports of €5.7bn (€4.4 billion oil related). That's a lot leaving the country.

loyatemu · 09-11-2019 5:02pm

Apogee wrote: »

https://www.irishtimes.com/business/energy-and-resources/esb-to-close-two-peat-powere

Do other stations still in use partially burn peat for energy generation?

Edenderry burns a mix of peat and biomass.

Markcheese · 09-11-2019 5:38pm

hmmm wrote: »

I'm surprised more is not made of renewables avoiding us having to send billions to Middle East & Russian despots. Whatever about the environmental benefits, we should be trying to develop as much of the infrastructure to build and operate these systems in Ireland, as it is money which is recycled back into our economy and the economy of Europe. The only figures I have to hand are from 2014, where we had energy imports of €5.7bn (€4.4 billion oil related). That's a lot leaving the country.

Does it make much difference Wether you pay one multinational firm for gas and oil or another multinational investment fund for wind electricity.??.
The turbines and towers are gonna be made in Spain, Germany or Denmark anywhere but here, yes there is the business of installing them and the licence fee to the land owner, but it's the international finance who are taking the risk.. And the reward..

hmmm · 09-11-2019 8:14pm

Markcheese wrote: »

Does it make much difference Wether you pay one multinational firm for gas and oil or another multinational investment fund for wind electricity.??.

Yes - because one is likely to be manufacturing turbines in Europe, and employing Irish people to maintain those turbines.

The other is likely to be doing deals with less than savoury characters in countries most Irish people would likely not want to do business with if we could avoid.

There's also the huge advantages that OPEC can't turn off the turbines if it suited them to drive up the price of energy, and we have far less geopolitical risk that a war will break out somewhere which is likely to impact again on the price of energy.

Apogee · 07-02-2020 9:06pm

Missed this back in November about a new 500MW interconnector going for planning.

Irish Times wrote:

Preparations for a new electricity interconnector linking Ireland and Wales have begun, with the first planning applications submitted. The Greenlink interconnector will come ashore under Baginbun beach in Co Wexford and Freshwater West in Pembrokeshire. The project is expected to take three years to build with commissioning in 2023.

https://www.irishtimes.com/business/energy-and-resources/project-to-connect-electricity-grids-in-ireland-and-wales-submits-plans-1.4079609
https://www.greenlink.ie/

Markcheese · 10-02-2020 2:14am

Apogee wrote: »

Missed this back in November about a new 500MW interconnector going for planning.

https://www.irishtimes.com/business/energy-and-resources/project-to-connect-electricity-grids-in-ireland-and-wales-submits-plans-1.4079609
https://www.greenlink.ie/

There's lots of stuff on their website about being co-founded by the EU , but I've no idea is / was that just the studies and surveys ,or the construction too
,I assume the EU wouldnt be funding an Ireland uk connection now ,

dubhthach · 11-02-2020 4:48pm

Markcheese wrote: »

There's lots of stuff on their website about being co-founded by the EU , but I've no idea is / was that just the studies and surveys ,or the construction too
,I assume the EU wouldnt be funding an Ireland uk connection now ,

Well given interconnection of UK grid to continent (with several cables under construction at moment), improving Ireland/UK interconnection actually will help tie Ireland further into wider EU grid. Obviously direct connection to France helps bypass UK but still good to have extra redudancy in Irish sea links.

Extra interconnection if anything makes large-scale offshore Wind more viable as producer can always sell the produced electricity over interconnectors (which are bi-directional)

Apogee · 12-02-2020 8:24pm

Markcheese wrote: »

There's lots of stuff on their website about being co-founded by the EU , but I've no idea is / was that just the studies and surveys ,or the construction too
,I assume the EU wouldnt be funding an Ireland uk connection now ,

The project is currently listed in the EU's 'Projects of Common Interest'.

https://ec.europa.eu/energy/sites/ener/files/c_2019_7772_1_annex.pdf

loyatemu · 13-02-2020 12:26pm

EDF have bought a stake in the proposed Codling Bank wind farm:
https://www.irishtimes.com/business/retail-and-services/edf-picks-up-stake-in-wicklow-wind-farm-for-estimated-100m-1.4170593

Markcheese · 13-02-2020 1:07pm

loyatemu wrote: »

EDF have bought a stake in the proposed Codling Bank wind farm:
https://www.irishtimes.com/business/retail-and-services/edf-picks-up-stake-in-wicklow-wind-farm-for-estimated-100m-1.4170593

Heard that yesterday ..
It seems like off shore wind is heading to being the next big thing ....( I assume with a name like codling bank ,this is a "shallow water" scheme. .. )
The deep water / tethered schemes are really interesting ,and open up huge areas for wind ,

Markcheese · 13-02-2020 1:23pm

Jaysus , I just read the Irish times article , 220 turbines in the first tranche ,and potential for another 200....
The construction probably won't be worth a whole pile to the Irish economy ,( the turbines and masts will come from Europe ,probably delivered directly to the sand bank ,the construction /crane barges and ships similarly won't be Irish , but if they're working off the Irish coast for years there's at least scope for them to be working out of Irish ports ..
Is arklow banks expansion still on the cards ?

dubhthach · 14-02-2020 11:40am

http://codlingwindpark.ie/wp-content/uploads/2013/01/Codling-Non-Technical-Summary1.pdf

I'd imagine if anything this makes Arklow Bank project more viable in long run as it shows that a large scale farm can be delievered in same region.

Apogee · 02-04-2020 2:06pm

Irish Examiner wrote:

The backers of one of Ireland’s largest planned offshore windfarms off the coast of Cork and Waterford are targeting a 2026 start.Public consultation opened recently on the foreshore application for the Inis Ealga windfarm.The proposed site is approximately 54 km in width stretching from Dungarvan to Cork Harbour and occupies an area of 925 km2. The backers of the 700MW project, DP Energy Ireland (DPEI) are headquartered in Cork.

https://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/business/2026-start-date-for-offshore-windfarm-990845.html

Carawaystick · 03-04-2020 10:32pm

dubhthach wrote: »

Well given interconnection of UK grid to continent (with several cables under construction at moment), improving Ireland/UK interconnection actually will help tie Ireland further into wider EU grid. Obviously direct connection to France helps bypass UK but still good to have extra redudancy in Irish sea links.

We should use terminology carefully, there are 2 uk grids, ours, and the one in Britain,
the pics misuse the terminology also.

We should also boost the grid connectivity on this island

Apogee · 08-07-2020 5:32pm

Irish Examiner wrote:

Work has begun planning an offshore wind project near the Kinsale Gas Fields that could produce up to 1GW of energy through 67 floating wind turbines. Simply Blue Energy (Kinsale) has lodged a foreshore licence application to carry out survey works off the Cork coast as part of its Emerald Project which it says has the potential to replace 16.5% of current fossil fuel-derived electricity in Ireland. The investigative foreshore licence application lodged with the Department of Housing, Planning and Local Government seeks consent to conduct surveys to investigate options for bringing cables ashore, for a wind farm that would be located between 35km to 60km from the Cork coast in depths of water of around 85 to 90m.

https://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/business/plans-for-1gw-floating-offshore-wind-project-south-of-kinsale-1009723.html

Apogee · 09-07-2020 1:25pm

Some symmetry to yesterday's announcement:

Echo wrote:

The final cubic feet of gas has now flowed through the Inch terminal as PSE Kinsale Energy Limited (KEL) ceased production after producing almost two trillion cubic feet of natural gas – double the original reserve estimate. KEL has been producing natural gas from its facilities off the Old Head of Kinsale since 1978, with Ballycotton (1991), Southwest Kinsale (1999) and Seven Heads (2003) coming into production later.

https://www.echolive.ie/corknews/Kinsale-operation-shuts-down-after-producing-two-trillion-cubic-metres-of-gas-2109d3ad-ebcb-4543-b989-821259d7b082-ds

Markcheese · 10-07-2020 8:11am

Also from the echo https://www.echolive.ie/corknews/Ireland-needs-LNG-says-Port-of-Cork-chairman-7296fda0-3ef7-42d5-94c6-1470cc61dffd-ds

marno21 · 12-07-2020 11:43am

The whole LNG bashing from the Green Party is the usual ideologically driven poorly thought out stuff we've come to expect from them at times. Their policies on this issue pay no heed to either energy security, or the need to have a dispatchable alternative to the dirtier fossil fuels we are aiming to phase out over the next few years. If gas is going to be central to our electricity generation portfolio along with renewables then there needs to be a strategic, coherent policy position on gas. Their policies are neither of those.

There are some people in the Green Party who are of the belief that it's a feasible idea to run the entire country on wind energy 24/7/365. Again, no attention paid to the practical constraints of such an idea.

Sam Russell · 12-07-2020 12:22pm

Their opposition to LNG is really an opposition to fracking.

With electricity, once it is generated, it is the same whatever its origins - wind, wave, solar, gas, coal, or nuclear.

Surely, LNG is gas, wherever it came from. Fracking is bad for the world, but a nuclear accident is more so. It is possible to ban fracked gas without banning LNG.

Energy infrastructure

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