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Relationship Issues over aging and babies

  • 27-04-2021 10:45pm
    #1
    LegacyUser
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 166,026 ✭✭✭✭


    Hi All,
    Looking for some advice. My partner and I are living together and renting we are both 35 been together 6 years. I want children and he says he does too, however he refuses to start trying until we own our own home. Considering the current housing situation this isn't going to happen for at least another two years.
    We have talked about this and he is obviously aware that my fertility is now rapidly declining, but he won't budge.
    I suspect he is just avoiding having children, the other night when we were talking he said "why don't you freeze your eggs" this threw me... he said "that way you have a fall back plan when we try to have them when you are older"

    I'm now seriously considering this, he denies not wanting children..but this suggestion from him seems like covering his bases ..keeping me sweet so we can stop talking about this. ..and making him feel less guilty when he possibly turns around in two years and says "nah let's have dog first" or some nonsense.

    I don't know what to do. I'm so frustrated by this, but in a way I'm thinking ..ya know what freeze my eggs and if he decides to flake at least I have completely ruined my chances of having children in the future (I know it's not fool proof)

    I realise this is not a good basis for going forward in our relationship..I'm lost I don't know what to think.

    Any words of wisdom very much appreciated
    Thanks all


«1

Comments

  • #2
    Rubberchikken
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,083 ✭✭✭Rubberchikken


    He needs to act like an adult and have an honest conversation with you not the glib throwaway remarks he's making.

    I can understand his talk about owning a house first but if that's just stalling a proper conversation then he's not being fair.


  • #3
    Idle Passerby
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,122 ✭✭✭Idle Passerby


    Freezing your eggs isn't just a case of pop a few in a box and stick them in the fridge! You'd have to get hormone therapy to stimulate your ovaries to overproduce. Removing them from your body and freezeing them immediately reduces their health and your own fertility. Those are all reasonable risks when there's already problems conceiving but as a time buying measure for an indecisive man? He'd put you through all that because of an arbitrary timeline? Id be questioning whether he's certain he wants kids at all.


  • #4
    Windmill100000
    Registered Users Posts: 585 ✭✭✭Windmill100000


    The wanting to own your own place first is fair enough. I imagine a lot of people feel the same.
    What are you both doing about that? Are you both saving? Have you researched what you will need to do re savings to make that happen and when that may likely occur?

    Telling you to freeze your eggs sounds a bit extreme if this house is actually on the horizon.


  • #5
    Cash_Q
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,920 ✭✭✭Cash_Q


    We were together for 16 years before we had our first baby and this is because we waited until we had bought our own house first. We had lived in 6 different homes together by then and didn't want to be constantly moving with kids in tow. We also feared our mortgage approval amount would be reduced for having children.

    I got pregnant with our second baby and we decided to move, as we had the neighbours from hell x3. We completed our sale 2weeks after the baby was born by C section and we were between houses for a further 2.5 months so stayed with my parents in that time. Essentially we moved house twice with a newborn and a toddler in a short space of time. Our mortgage approval amount wasn't affected at all.

    The point I'm trying to make is that you may have the best laid plans in mind and then life changes and you have to do things differently than you planned.

    if you started trying to conceive tomorrow, it could take several months or years which I'm sure you're highly aware of. If you want to have several children you may want to try to space them out, will you have the time to do that as you get further into your 30s/enter your 40s? Also worth considering the link between increased chances of disabilities and parental age.

    I once heard the phrase "you won't regret having them but you might regret not having them" and I think it's really true for anyone who really wants a child but is always waiting for the right time. What if the time is never right and you end up without children, how will you feel in 10/20 years if that longing is unanswered?

    If I were you I would write a list of all the reasons that you feel strongly about starting a family sooner than later. Try to have an answer ready for anything that you feel he may challenge you on. Not to manipulate him but to try to keep yourself calm and focused if emotions become heightened. I would agree a time with him in advance to sit and have a proper conversation about it, so that its not just dismissed with passing comments as you go about your busy lives. It needs to be discussed fairly and if he is in fact not interested in having children then you need to either make peace with that or move on.

    I love my husband and we are very lucky to have had such a long relationship before having children, but this would have been a dealbreaker for me and I would have definitely walked away if he didn't want children.

    Best of luck I hope you figure it out.


  • #6
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    You are 10 to 15 years past peak fertlity. In your 20s you were 25% likely to get pregnant during every menstrual cycle. By 40, you are 5% likely per cycle. Plus chances of miscarriage increase from 15% to 40% in the same time frame.
    Lots of women get pregnant after 35. I know many. I also know not a few who were strung out by partners in their mid to late 30s, waiting. And who did not have the babies they wanted.
    Friends of mine and myself - now in our early 50s - talk to our sons about this situation for their partners. It is a big decision for everyone to have children, but men unilaterally postponing the decision for various reasons is unethical treatment of their committed women partners once the woman's fertility is in decline.


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  • #7
    fits
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,649 ✭✭✭✭fits


    Make an appt for an egg freezing consultation and make sure he goes with you. The consultant will be straight up about your situation and there’s a very good chance it will set him straight.


  • #8
    3DataModem
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,028 ✭✭✭3DataModem


    Don't wait.

    At 35 your fertility is in decline and that decline accelerates as you approach 40. Egg freezing is not a miracle solution. There's a massive difference between age 35 and 38.

    There'll always be a reason to delay everything, but only ONE thing in life cannot be delayed indefinitely.

    https://www.britishfertilitysociety.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2018/02/Graphic-3.png


  • #9
    shesty
    Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 6,914 Mod ✭✭✭✭shesty


    Setting aside fertility, I am 39 with 3 kids and I am TIRED.Can't tell you how many men I know who had kids in their very late 30s and early 40s and who realised how exhausting it is, and will often say they wish they had them earlier. There are many good reasons we are at our most fertile in our early 20s, and that's one of them.


  • #10
    3DataModem
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,028 ✭✭✭3DataModem


    shesty wrote: »
    Setting aside fertility, I am 39 with 3 kids and I am TIRED.Can't tell you how many men I know who had kids in their very late 30s and early 40s and who realised how exhausting it is, and will often say they wish they had them earlier. There are many good reasons we are at our most fertile in our early 20s, and that's one of them.

    +1 to this. We had twins in late 30s.


  • #11
    JustAThought
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,324 ✭✭✭JustAThought


    Aside from all of the very good points made above, have you both considered how many thousands his half baked suggestion will cost both in terms of upfront costs and then IVF when you finally decide to unfreeze and fertalise them. Fake foolish unthinking non economy.

    Not to mention the absolute life chaos & emotional turmoil it will cause you and your relationship.

    Late male fertility is being show as a possible cause of autism - he is not exempt from this. If you have to lie to mortgage brokers about not wanting to have kids to be eligable for higher mortgage them do that instead - or simply deny you have any. But don’t keep putting it off. You have already left it very late - don’t push your luck. Sure its a big lifestyle change for him and you both but if you are both aligned on having a family together and staying together then you need to act. Fertility and pregnancy risks are not something you can kick down the line and hope it will be ok - and messing with your fertility and chosing to go down the risky and expensive and emotionally fraught road of IVF when it is not needed is just imbicillic and childish thinking.


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  • #12
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Plus the whole having everything set up before having babies idea is not necessary. I know mine is an unusual example but my first was born in a caravan on a commune and them and the rest born later were raised for the first 10 years on the clippings of tin in a remote place with no electricity or indoor plumbing. They remember it fondly now as idyllic! Go figure :)
    Honestly, time passes swiftly. Carpe diem.


  • #13
    YellowLead
    Registered Users Posts: 7,943 ✭✭✭YellowLead


    You need to establish if he is putting off kids because he’d doesn’t really want them, or if it is really because of the house. If it’s the house have you explained to him the risks involved in waiting and what is actually involved with egg freezing so he has the full facts and is aware of all the risk???

    Does he get excited talking about having kids? If it’s something he is going along with beciase you want them and he would be grand without them then have a good long think.
    In my experience there is a huge difference between having a partner as invested as you and not when it comes to child rearing. Will he do his share of the work - early mornings/nappies? If there are problems (a child with extra needs for example) will you deal with them together?

    It’s important it’s what you both want, if it is then the timing can surely be worked out with him once he is properly aware of the risks of waiting.


  • #14
    Magicmatilda
    Registered Users Posts: 601 ✭✭✭Magicmatilda


    Freezing your eggs costs 3000 and its another 350 every year to store them. Will he be paying?

    At 35 and together 6 years together he knows if he wants kids or not (like actually wants them, wants to be a father) It really is time he p***ed or got off the pot.

    Have you a deposit saved? Have you both agreed where you want to buy? Are you looking for a house? If not then I think you need to have a really serious chat with him and a serious think about what you want, maybe discuss it with a counsellor.

    If you can afford it, freeze the eggs anyway.


  • #15
    YellowLead
    Registered Users Posts: 7,943 ✭✭✭YellowLead


    It’s also worth considering that that stats from successful pregnancies from egg freezing run at around 18 per cent. If you freeze them in our twenties it’s higher of course but waiting until mid 30s to freeze reduces the chances. So it’s not like it’s a magic fix. It’s something to mitigate chances of not having a kid, rather than an active solution.

    As others have said too if you start trying now it could take a year or so to conceive - if he is serious about this how can he not go ahead? Make sure he understands all the facts, if he does understand them and still thinks it’s a good idea then it kind of sounds like he’s not that bothered about kids, and do you want to co parent with somebody who is half arsed?


  • #16
    Big Bag of Chips
    Administrators Posts: 14,393 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭Big Bag of Chips


    Waiting until everything is in place to have children is a sure fire way to never having children. Or having children a lot older than you ideally would like.

    What if when you buy a house there's money that needs to be put into it? Or a mortgage that frightens him and makes him nervous of affording children. How many children, ideally would you/he like?

    Having a child is a huge commitment. Absolutely huge. And it needs thought, and discussion. But you need to ask him, and really thrash it out with him, does he ACTUALLY want children. Honestly. And if so, when? He can't say 'once we have a house' because then the house might never materialise.

    He needs to give you an age. Fertility is an issue. The older you get, the bigger the issue. So, if he says he wants a baby when you are 37, then you start trying when you turn 36.

    I think he is afraid of the thoughts of a baby. That's reasonable. It is the biggest decision you are ever likely to make in your life. But I don't think he's being fully honest with you. What if it turns out he doesn't want children? Would you stay in the relationship? Or is your desire for children strong enough for you to walk away and take your chances elsewhere?


  • #17
    LegacyUser
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 166,026 ✭✭✭✭LegacyUser


    Freezing eggs will guarantee you nothing, and could end up costing you a lot of money in the long run with no end result.

    Some have said it's better to do it in your 20's, it's very tiring in your 30's; I'm 37 this year, my wife has just turned 35, we have been together 15 years. We had our first child a year ago. I absolutely agree that it is hard work, very tiring, and that we would have had so much more energy in our 20's. But our son is the greatest thing that has ever happened us, so we are happy to accept the relative exhaustion, it's worth it. At any age a baby will take a lot from your life but you stand to gain so much more overall.

    We are lucky that we managed to do a lot of things in our 20's and early 30's that we otherwise wouldn't have been able to do had we had children at the time.

    Your situation is very tricky; I would ask would you consider ending the relationship over this but even if you were and you did then you're a 35 year old who is now under pressure to find a new partner and be with them long enough for you to know that the relationship has a long term future and that you and he are compatible in terms of having a baby together; and that might take a few years.

    Your best option seems to be getting your current partner to pull the finger out and commit to having children now.

    Would you pursue the sperm donor route and go it alone?

    It's not the type of thing I'd want to have regrets on later in life. It's better to regret trying and failing than it is to regret not trying at all.


  • #18
    Neyite
    Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 25,947 Mod ✭✭✭✭Neyite


    Freezing eggs is a last resort - and an expensive, pretty gruelling one.
    Many eggs fail when defrosted which is why they recommend you freeze embryos. And for that you need ICSI where a single sperm is injected into the egg, then frozen for use at a later date. You need to pay an annual amount to keep them.

    First you go on medicines or injections to take control of your menstrual cycle. These effectively cause a temporary menopause. So expect things like mood swings, hormone issues, hot flushes, reactions to meds and so on. Next, take medications or injections to stimulate your ovaries into producing several eggs, Again, because you are producing more than you normally would, expect some side effects - Next you go into the clinic where they do a transvaginal ultrasound - nicknamed dildo cam. It's basically a thick wand with a camera at the end that's inserted into your vagina. Depending on how your follicles are maturing, you may need a repeat appointment. Then it's time for egg retrieval. Which is a needle going into your abdomen. Sore but necessary. Then the eggs are fertilised and they see how many were retrieved, and how many survived to day 5.

    When you do want to get pregnant, you basically repeat the process except for egg retrieval and you go on different drugs after implantation (also an injection) to support the first few weeks - and again, financial costs are involved and it's not a guaranteed baby at the end of it.

    Men usually get the better end of the deal - they get handed an adult magazine and a cup and go into a private room. For men with fertility issues they may need a needle through the testes to retrieve singular sperm - it would be interesting to see if he'd be willing to go through that alone -it would be very illuminating.

    You could go through all this and in 5 years time he could simply withdraw his consent for you to use the embryos containing his genetic material. A famous case is Sofia Vergara who's ex wants to use embryos they froze while together, and she successfully blocked him in several court cases.

    This stuff isn't the doddle he thinks it is. There's a lot involved and it puts our bodies through hell and back - but most of us do it because usual family planning didn't work for us and we have no option but to endure it in order to have a family.

    I think you and he need to look in depth into this - both of you to realise what's involved and see that it's not just a nice neat solution. Houses can be bought at any time, babies have a timeframe.


  • #19
    Magicmatilda
    Registered Users Posts: 601 ✭✭✭Magicmatilda


    Neyite wrote: »

    First you go on medicines or injections to take control of your menstrual cycle. These effectively cause a temporary menopause. So expect things like mood swings, hormone issues, hot flushes, reactions to meds and so on. Next, take medications or injections to stimulate your ovaries into producing several eggs, Again, because you are producing more than you normally would, expect some side effects - Next you go into the clinic where they do a transvaginal ultrasound - nicknamed dildo cam. It's basically a thick wand with a camera at the end that's inserted into your vagina. Depending on how your follicles are maturing, you may need a repeat appointment. Then it's time for egg retrieval. Which is a needle going into your abdomen. Sore but necessary. Then the eggs are fertilised and they see how many were retrieved, and how many survived to day 5.

    Just to say this was not my experience of having my eggs frozen. I did a short protocol which means there is no downregging and therefore no enforced menopause. There was about 10 days on injections and 3 transvaginal scans (which in my experience was fine). The egg retrieval is done through a needle in the vaginal wall not the abdoman, I was sedated and experienced no pain after. Then any eggs retrieved are frozen. There is no need for fertilisation or waiting until day 5, that would be for embryos.

    I just wanted to clarify that as its important for anyone reading that while not cheap and not ideal, it does not have to be a harrowing or painful process either.

    As Neyite said though its is not guaranteed. Expect to lose 50% at thawing and another 30% at fertilisation and another 30% at growing to blastocyst. I got 11 eggs, I will be lucky to get an embryo from that.


  • #20
    seenitall
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,723 ✭✭✭seenitall


    Magicmatilda wrote: »
    Just to say this was not my experience of having my eggs frozen. I did a short protocol which means there is no downregging and therefore no enforced menopause. There was about 10 days on injections and 3 transvaginal scans (which in my experience was fine). The egg retrieval is done through a needle in the vaginal wall not the abdoman, I was sedated and experienced no pain after. Then any eggs retrieved are frozen. There is no need for fertilisation or waiting until day 5, that would be for embryos.

    I just wanted to clarify that as its important for anyone reading that while not cheap and not ideal, it does not have to be a harrowing or painful process either.

    Yup, seconded.

    The cost can be the most “painful” thing about it, depending on one’s financial circumstances.

    Your partner sounds to me like he really doesn’t want kids, OP. The reason I think that is that over all the years I’ve been reading these threads in PI/RI we have had many, many instances of cases similar to yourself, where the partner wasn’t ready and was stringing it out until it was perilously late in the day for the woman/OP to start trying even. Your late thirties, for your first child, you might as well be sitting at a roulette table, depending on your genetic makeup and your medical history, mainly. It’s a horrible place to find yourself in. I may be sounding a bit alarmist to you but honestly I’m just giving you the benefit of my experience. At exactly 40 years of age, once I was in the situation to start trying, it just didn’t happen. I wasn’t able to conceive any longer. And I will never know if that state of affairs kicked in at 39, 38, ... when? Because I wasn’t in a position to be trying then. (Thank heavens for the one child I had, under none too ideal circumstances, at 32.)

    Anyways. Your guy seems to be one of the men we’ve read about on here, who doesn’t or won’t understand the problem you might be facing. It’s fine for him to be putting materialistic conditions on this, since deep down he knows HE can have a child at any point in the future. Don’t just meekly go along or make weak noises. Sit him down and have a serious chat, and then give him a bit of time to process the information, but leave him in no doubt that your fertility isn’t as infinite as his and that he should be considerate and respectful of that; and that you are in no position to expect anything less of a committed and caring partner. Show some backbone - because you are the only one fighting your corner here, sadly. It shouldn’t be like that, but the result of this conversation should enlighten you as to his true motives for dragging this out. Simply put, waiting on a house purchase is not an acceptable setback to start trying to conceive at your age. No way Jose.


  • #21
    AmyMurphy22
    Site Banned Posts: 32 ✭AmyMurphy22


    Ridiculous posters treating the man in this situation with contempt. It's a difficult decision for anyone as to when to have children. Prioritising owning a house to provide stability for said children is the right idea in my opinion. It's much harder to get a mortgage with a child.

    Also, hilarious that people are saying "think of the cost of freezing your eggs!!". Are you all serious? Paying rent with a child is significantly more expensive - even in the medium term - than freezing your eggs, securing a mortgage on a house, and then (and only then!) having a child.


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  • #22
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    AmyMurphy22 wrote: »
    Ridiculous posters treating the man in this situation with contempt. It's a difficult decision for anyone as to when to have children. Prioritising owning a house to provide stability for said children is the right idea in my opinion. It's much harder to get a mortgage with a child.

    Also, hilarious that people are saying "think of the cost of freezing your eggs!!". Are you all serious? Paying rent with a child is significantly more expensive - even in the medium term - than freezing your eggs, securing a mortgage on a house, and then (and only then!) having a child.

    No one is treating the man with contempt.
    Posters may be expressing cold hard facts of life which is not the same as showing contempt.


  • #23
    Antares35
    Registered Users Posts: 3,845 ✭✭✭Antares35


    Hi OP

    I'll echo what other posters have said, egg freezing is not a simple pop them in the freezer process, and I don't think it has huge success rates, though I could be wrong. It isn't a guarantee. Also if it turned out that you had inherent fertility issues then you'd need to factor in time for these issues to manifest, be investigated, diagnosed, treated etc. Having eggs frozen won't insure against other physiological issues that could (but hopefully won't) arise.

    I think you need to just be straight with him. While it is important to have a certain level of stability before children come along, I don't agree that all the boxes need to be ticked first, because the way the housing market is etc. My fiancé and I would have preferred to be married and in our home before the babies came, but here we are still renting and not yet married (thanks covid) with one here and another on the way. I was 36 having my first and will be nearly 38 having my second. Try not to panic either. The media loves to scare monger women about this mythical overnight crash in fertility that happens on our 35th birthday but it isn't true.

    Best of luck.


  • #24
    Neyite
    Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 25,947 Mod ✭✭✭✭Neyite


    Magicmatilda wrote: »
    Just to say this was not my experience of having my eggs frozen. I did a short protocol which means there is no downregging and therefore no enforced menopause. There was about 10 days on injections and 3 transvaginal scans (which in my experience was fine). The egg retrieval is done through a needle in the vaginal wall not the abdoman, I was sedated and experienced no pain after. Then any eggs retrieved are frozen. There is no need for fertilisation or waiting until day 5, that would be for embryos.

    I just wanted to clarify that as its important for anyone reading that while not cheap and not ideal, it does not have to be a harrowing or painful process either.

    As Neyite said though its is not guaranteed. Expect to lose 50% at thawing and another 30% at fertilisation and another 30% at growing to blastocyst. I got 11 eggs, I will be lucky to get an embryo from that.

    That's good to know that not all women have side effects, though I suppose nobody really knows what side effects they will experience until you start on the meds.
    A friend and I were on the exact same dosage of the exact same drugs at the exact same time and while I only had mood swings, the meds affected her quite a lot to the point it was necessary to stop the treatment. It's quite unpredictable.


  • #25
    shesty
    Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 6,914 Mod ✭✭✭✭shesty


    To be fair, I would suggest the man is the one behaving with contempt, throwing out suggestions like "sure just freeze your eggs" as if it is just that simple, a guarantee for the future, and means he can put off making a decision until he is ready.

    If he doesn't want to have kids that's fine, but he shouldn't string her along until he decides that he is ready to decide.If that makes sense.


  • #26
    seenitall
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,723 ✭✭✭seenitall


    Freezing one’s eggs in no guarantee of a child, in fact it is very very far from it. Just as a poster upthread noted, if you get 11 eggs out, you can expect 1 capable defrosted one. That’s not the first time I’ve heard that particular statistic, and it’s a very bad margin of benefit to be working with. So I don’t think it’s wise to be hanging all of one’s hopes on this costly procedure, not when a couple is perfectly healthy and the only physical but vital constraint presenting is the woman’s age.


  • #27
    AmyMurphy22
    Site Banned Posts: 32 ✭AmyMurphy22


    [Deleted User] wrote: »
    No one is treating the man with contempt.
    Posters may be expressing cold hard facts of life which is not the same as showing contempt.

    What I'm calling for is a bit of compassion to be shown to BOTH parties involved in a difficult decision.

    The relative contempt being shown to the man:

    "He needs to act like an adult..."

    "as a time buying measure for an indecisive man? He'd put you through all that because of an arbitrary timeline?"

    "men unilaterally postponing the decision for various reasons is unethical treatment of their committed women partners"

    "just imbicillic and childish thinking"

    "It really is time he p***ed or got off the pot."

    "do you want to co parent with somebody who is half arsed?"

    Etc. Etc.

    That's just a sample. There's lots more. Nobody treating her with this level of contempt for waiting until she's 35... why did she wait so long? Why didn't she have a child in her early 20s if that's the peak time? Answer: Because life isn't so simple. Same applies to the man. This is a very hard call.


  • #28
    stuboy01
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 131 ✭✭stuboy01


    had our first unexpectedly in early 20s. bought a house in country because we thought we needed our 'own home'.
    that didn't work, moved to home, rented, then decided to have 2nd baby as we didn't want anymore after 30. then bought a house. then lost that house in recession, then rented for a year, then moved to another rental for a few years, then moved again, then moved 'home' to save again for a new purchase, then bought again. The kids never cared because home was the family and their school routine and friend circle didn't change.

    the point is OP you just never know what's around the corner. you can buy a house and even then move on unexpectedly.
    for some people (men and women) there is never a right time and they will always have some stipulation that will never be met. that could be fear of parenting, or just not wanting to give up the life you can have with no kids.
    if I were you...and I'm not obviously, I wouldn't wait. I found having my second age 30 tiring, REALLY tiring. I also wanted to be active when my kids were growing up. I've had the pleasure of playing competitive sports with my son many times, a great memory for us both. If i had waited til after I was 40 those things would never have happened, and what a tragedy that would have been!
    If you want kids have them, if he thinks it's not the right time, then he may always have a reason not to have kids.

    but...maybe he will once you have a house. you both need to talk to each other about what you really want and then decide if you're both happy with that. there are two people required for this.

    You probably won't find your answer here, other than 'Communicate with each other'. and be honest and open.


  • #29
    Neyite
    Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 25,947 Mod ✭✭✭✭Neyite


    He's got the luxury of time, which women dont.

    Some guys haven't really thought out the timeframe. I remember the OH being in no rush when I was 33. So I'd asked him ideally, how many kids he'd like. So I did the maths for him - on average it takes up to a year to conceive, then 9 months of pregnancy plus maybe 6 months after that before periods return after breastfeeding so you can try for #2 and so on.
    At the time that was a best-case scenario assuming we were really fertile but for 2-3 kids it works out at nearly 5 years.

    So, to be fair to him he had a think about it, and saw we really shouldn't delay any longer. And the timing was utter pants. Ireland had literally just gone into recession, we both had several pay cuts and money was really tight - but we didn't have a choice, we needed to get a move on if we wanted babies.

    In total, though we didn't have any issues identified, it still took us 27 months to conceive #1, followed by 5 miscarriages /endless trips to the clinic over the years until we gave up when I was turning 42. We got one child and I'll always be grateful for that.


  • #30
    eviltwin
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,495 ✭✭✭✭eviltwin


    AmyMurphy22 wrote: »
    What I'm calling for is a bit of compassion to be shown to BOTH parties involved in a difficult decision.

    The relative contempt being shown to the man:

    "He needs to act like an adult..."

    "as a time buying measure for an indecisive man? He'd put you through all that because of an arbitrary timeline?"

    "men unilaterally postponing the decision for various reasons is unethical treatment of their committed women partners"

    "just imbicillic and childish thinking"

    "It really is time he p***ed or got off the pot."

    "do you want to co parent with somebody who is half arsed?"

    Etc. Etc.

    That's just a sample. There's lots more. Nobody treating her with this level of contempt for waiting until she's 35... why did she wait so long? Why didn't she have a child in her early 20s if that's the peak time? Answer: Because life isn't so simple. Same applies to the man. This is a very hard call.

    The "contempt" isn't that he wants to wait, which is actually a very mature and admirable thing to do, its that he has flippantly told her she can freeze her eggs as if that is some magic solution to their problems. Its not as many posters here have said. She can't wait unlike him and if people waited until everything was perfect then no one would have children. Part of life is working with the unexpected because once the child is here there will be many unplanned and unexpected things to manage.


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  • #31
    PoisonIvyBelle
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,721 ✭✭✭PoisonIvyBelle


    Gettingold1234 wrote: »
    Hi All,
    Looking for some advice. My partner and I are living together and renting we are both 35 been together 6 years. I want children and he says he does too, however he refuses to start trying until we own our own home. Considering the current housing situation this isn't going to happen for at least another two years.
    We have talked about this and he is obviously aware that my fertility is now rapidly declining, but he won't budge.
    I suspect he is just avoiding having children, the other night when we were talking he said "why don't you freeze your eggs" this threw me... he said "that way you have a fall back plan when we try to have them when you are older"

    I'm now seriously considering this, he denies not wanting children..but this suggestion from him seems like covering his bases ..keeping me sweet so we can stop talking about this. ..and making him feel less guilty when he possibly turns around in two years and says "nah let's have dog first" or some nonsense.

    I don't know what to do. I'm so frustrated by this, but in a way I'm thinking ..ya know what freeze my eggs and if he decides to flake at least I have completely ruined my chances of having children in the future (I know it's not fool proof)

    I realise this is not a good basis for going forward in our relationship..I'm lost I don't know what to think.

    Any words of wisdom very much appreciated
    Thanks all

    I'm going to look at both sides here.

    To be fair to him, he seems to be saying it is important to him to have stability in place before having a child. And "having a home" seems to fall under this heading for him. It's fine to want that. It's okay to want to plan these things. Of course it's not always possible, but for some people it is very important to try to do it.

    The problem is that he appears to have given you reason to doubt that this is the "real" reason for the delay. Is there a specific reason that when he denies not "not" wanting children that you don't believe him? Has he done anything to indicate otherwise aside from wanting a plan? Has he lied to you in the past on serious matters?

    The reality of this is that he likely isn't too fussed because he doesn't understand the implications around fertility as you age, or he isn't too fussed because he doesn't mind if he has a kid or not. That doesn't mean he doesn't want any, but if someone is on the fence then it just means it's not a priority at the forefront of their mind like it would be on yours if it's very important to you.

    On your end, 6 years is a long time, especially if it's an absolute deal breaker for you. So what I'd do is look at your current financial situation and how you would manage with a child. Then, sit down with him and talk to him about it in those terms - i.e. the terms he's likely thinking in right now. I reckon that will click with him more.

    I can and can't relate to this to varying degrees. I'm your age but my boyfriend is a lot younger than me, and he's the one who's more into the whole baby thing whereas I'm the "take it or leave it" one so maybe I'm more like your BF. BUT the difference in our situation is that we have sat down and discussed it very early on because the age situation made it impossible not to address. I needed to know if it was something he wanted (in case it got to a point where I couldn't), and he really wants it so he needed to know it was something I wanted in the future. We talked, figured out we both had the same ideas on it re: wanting stability as a priority before anything else, and given my age agreed to discuss it again in a year or so when/if we're together and decide what to do then.

    Is that something you guys could do? Sit down, have that conversation where you talk about his concerns and your answers to them, and then set a time to agree to come back to that conversation and reassess in a year or so when the timeline really is getting too tight.


  • #32
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    I don't think anyone has asked, but what is your financial situation?

    Do you have a deposit saved and are you in a position to start looking at houses? Would you get mortgage approval now?

    Having a child will impact on what you can save, and what banks will allow you to borrow - that's just a fact. Especially if you then have to factor in (unpaid?) maternity leave and/or childcare costs if/when you return to work.

    Unless there is something more specific he has said that makes you believe he doesn't want kids, I wouldn't jump to the assumption that he is using buying a home first as a way to get out of having them.

    He is probably thinking of the financial aspects, not the biological ones. Most men are not actually that complicated.


  • #33
    LegacyUser
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 166,026 ✭✭✭✭LegacyUser


    I don't know much about these things but is it possible to get some kind of fertility tests done to check your fertility health, or is that only possible for women who have been actively trying to get pregnant but haven't succeeded?


  • #34
    Antares35
    Registered Users Posts: 3,845 ✭✭✭Antares35


    image verification wrote: »
    I don't know much about these things but is it possible to get some kind of fertility tests done to check your fertility health, or is that only possible for women who have been actively trying to get pregnant but haven't succeeded?

    You can get it done. I had a test called AMH level testing when I was 33. But that one just tests the level of AMH in your blood which is indicative of the amount of eggs you have left. But a "good" result isn't a guarantee of pregnancy (nor is a "bad" one indicative that you won't be successful) because it only takes one egg, but it is the quality of eggs that is important. I don't know about other tests, I'm sure there must be. I was told at 33 that my AMH was the average level of a 36 year old, and to "go within the year" if I wanted to be sure of pregnancy. I wasn't with someone I wanted to have a child with at the time so I didn't. Was almost 37 having my first and no problems getting pregnant.


  • #35
    Teyla Emmagan
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,641 ✭✭✭Teyla Emmagan


    image verification wrote: »
    I don't know much about these things but is it possible to get some kind of fertility tests done to check your fertility health, or is that only possible for women who have been actively trying to get pregnant but haven't succeeded?

    It doesn't matter. You can be the most fertile woman in the world at 33 but it is no guarantee of longevity. It just means you are fertile right now. Every single woman goes through the same pattern, no matter where you start from we all go off a cliff at age 35, or whenever it is.

    I also had my eggs frozen and my experience was painful, harrowing, and extremely expensive. There has been about 20k spent on those eggs so far and they are an absolute shot in the dark. I think having a baby would have been easier at this stage.

    Women just have a very limited window and that's it.


  • #36
    beauf
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,648 ✭✭✭✭beauf


    Gettingold1234 wrote: »
    ....

    I realise this is not a good basis for going forward in our relationship..I'm lost I don't know what to think.

    Any words of wisdom very much appreciated
    Thanks all

    You can't wait any longer. You are out of time. You have to decide is the relationship viable if he doesn't want kids or wants to delay any more. Then decide to walk if its not..and you have to do it now. There is no point waiting any longer to decide this.

    He could string this out for another 5yrs then decide no and you are out of options. Or decide to have kids with someone younger. If you leave you might not find another partner. But at least you have tried and be not worse off than you are now.

    I wouldn't go down the freezing route. It's not the issue here.


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  • #37
    Hannibal_Smith
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 7,152 Mod ✭✭✭✭Hannibal_Smith


    Mod Note

    AmyMurphy22, welcome to PI. When replying to threads here posters are asked to offer constructive advice to an OP. Disagreeing with other posters in the context of offering advice to an OP is fine but so far you have offered none.

    Jarvis, tricking someone into parenthood, whilst it may seem like constructive advice to you is not helpful to the OP or their situation. Of course all advice is welcome here and its up to the OP, to accept or reject as they see fit. But please bear in mind the ramifications of advice and that there are two peoples lives involved here.

    Thanks

    HS


  • #38
    GingerLily
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,767 ✭✭✭GingerLily


    Antares35 wrote: »
    You can get it done. I had a test called AMH level testing when I was 33. But that one just tests the level of AMH in your blood which is indicative of the amount of eggs you have left. But a "good" result isn't a guarantee of pregnancy (nor is a "bad" one indicative that you won't be successful) because it only takes one egg, but it is the quality of eggs that is important. I don't know about other tests, I'm sure there must be. I was told at 33 that my AMH was the average level of a 36 year old, and to "go within the year" if I wanted to be sure of pregnancy. I wasn't with someone I wanted to have a child with at the time so I didn't. Was almost 37 having my first and no problems getting pregnant.

    I had this test and I had an excellent egg count for my age, my friend had a terrible egg count (5th percentile), she decided to start trying that month and conceived, I waited a few months and then it took me a while, a year in total at the age of 33.

    My point being, even if you have a favourable result for a test, the proof is in the pudding, and the later you delay the worse your odds are for conceiving.


  • #39
    beauf
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,648 ✭✭✭✭beauf


    Even if you started trying to have a baby today, there is no way of knowing how long it could take to have a successful pregnancy.
    Not just pregnant, successful delivery of a healthy baby.
    People might have a load of pregnancies but only one or none successful birth. Its kind of a lottery.

    So the OP has to draw a line in the sand is this a deal breaker for her. If it is, she has to act now.
    There is zero reason to wait. Its time to make a decision, and act on it. Then live with it.

    That might be to accept not having a baby, or not to accept that.


  • #40
    PoisonIvyBelle
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,721 ✭✭✭PoisonIvyBelle


    OP do not listen to this "tricking him" stuff, it's absolutely mental! Can you imagine having to hide that forever, having to look at your child knowing that you lied to his father in order for them to exist? Knowing that the trust in your relationship will be absolutely shattered if he ever finds out? Not to mention the fact that you'll be destroying the relationship you have right now regardless because this will always be in your mind.

    Do not do it. It is mental.


  • #41
    YellowLead
    Registered Users Posts: 7,943 ✭✭✭YellowLead


    Just because other people do manipulative things sometimes doesn’t mean we should go around recommending it.

    And it often backfires in the end - sure the man might stick around but he is often resentful and feels trapped and often looks for affairs.


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  • #42
    Hannibal_Smith
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 7,152 Mod ✭✭✭✭Hannibal_Smith


    Mod Note

    AmyMurphy22 if you have an issue with Moderator instruction then as per the Charter you are welcome to PM the Mod in question, but discussing it on thread is considered off topic. Do not do it going forward and perhaps take a read of the Charter before posting in PI/RI again.

    HS


  • #43
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    It is completely understandable that he would want to provide a stable environment for a child. A home is a key (but not the only) ingredient in this. He has had the past 6 years to provide this. He has not. He needs to face reality that due to the timeframes he has failed to do this in time, so the only option is to forge on ahead and put the home bit of the puzzle into place before the child is more than a couple of years old.


  • #44
    Neyite
    Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 25,947 Mod ✭✭✭✭Neyite


    Mod:

    Stop suggesting unethical or downright fraudulent behaviour. It's against the charter so I'm going to be deleting any posts that breach that rule.

    It's highly unethical to suggest a deliberate pregnancy.
    It's fraudulent to lie on a mortgage application.
    And it's against the charter to backseat mod, attack other posters (including in private messaging)


  • #45
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Kolten Putrid Ragweed wrote: »
    It is completely understandable that he would want to provide a stable environment for a child. A home is a key (but not the only) ingredient in this. He has had the past 6 years to provide this. He has not.

    I think you mean THEY.


  • #46
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Deleted User wrote: »
    I think you mean THEY.

    No, I mean he, because he is the one who thinks they should not have a kid because they don't have a house. If this is such a big deal to him he had plenty of time to sort it.


  • #47
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Kolten Putrid Ragweed wrote: »
    No, I mean he, because he is the one who thinks they should not have a kid because they don't have a house. If this is such a big deal to him he had plenty of time to sort it.

    They've been together six years, so if they do not have a house yet, it is down to both of them.


  • #48
    LegacyUser
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 166,026 ✭✭✭✭LegacyUser


    Hi OP, I think you really need to spell it out to him and make sure he understands the timelines involved any why you are so concerned.

    Plot it out in real time i.e. if you start trying today and it takes you as long as the average couple which is 6 months, you are likely to fall pregnant in October 2021, then with 9 months of pregnancy you will give birth in June 2022, you will be X age, he will be Y age.

    If it takes 12 month etc.

    If you want baby number two...etc etc. If you a quicker than average on the first conception, maybe ye can slow down the timeline of the second and so on.

    Do best care scenario, worst case etc, play with the numbers to show the examples. Even write it down on a timeline.

    This will make it more real and hopefully he will understand it better then.

    A friend of mine did similar and her husband freaked when it realised that the chances of a third child were so unlikely. In his head, 3 x 9 months total 27 months so he would have 3 kids under 2 and a half year. We slag him about it since, as he clearly though he could get her pregnant for the second, the minute she give birth to the first! In a lot of cases, men are more direct in their thinking so 3 x 9 is understandable but illogical.

    If he still has a dismissive attitude then you have to reassess what's important to you.


  • #49
    ILoveYourVibes
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,202 ✭✭✭✭ILoveYourVibes


    Your partner doesn't seem very well read up on things and doesn't seem to be living in reality.

    You freeze your eggs ..you need all the other medication etc.

    He is being very childish and selfish.

    I am not sure how to advise you with him though. I don't think his perception being so shallow that you can change it enough to make him see.

    Honestly something is wrong ..he doesn't seem honest about how he really feels about kids.


  • #50
    LegacyUser
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 166,026 ✭✭✭✭LegacyUser


    Regular user, but anon for this one...

    Sounds to me like he's not ready/not committed to the idea of kids, and is using the home-buying as a way to put off having that discussion.

    To be honest, I'd say it's not an uncommon thing either. I reckon if they were honest about it, most lads would be quite happy without kids but reach a point in the relationship where they have to go along (as the pressure generally comes from their partner who is under greater peer/family/social pressure in that regard as well as a biological "deadline"), or lose her.

    Thankfully most guys then grow into the role, but many don't hence why you see so many single mothers from the outset or soon afterwards, or why they don't want to be/aren't really involved etc. Most boys don't grow up wanting to settle down, meet someone and have a family - we can blame Disney for that one I guess!

    Of course there's guys who want kids just as much (or more) from the start, but I'd say the group above outnumber this group.

    Anyway... OP, you know the guy best and I think he falls into the first group from what you've said. Has he ever (without prompting/prodding) expressed a desire for kids? Have his friends/brothers-if-any got kids? I think you'll have to sit him down and get his true feelings on it but be prepared for a lot of "of course I do!" at first.

    If he doesn't or remains non-commital, then you need to decide if you can be happy with him without them. If not, it's time to walk away I'm afraid before ye get any more tied together (mortgage, marriage etc).


  • #51
    bitofabind
    Registered Users Posts: 939 ✭✭✭bitofabind


    The question to ask your boyfriend might be, do you want more than one child? And do you want them with me? And then crunch some numbers along the timeline towards 40. One year to conceive, another nine months before birth, already you're at 37. One year to settle into motherhood, etc.


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