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Child Item

Relationship Issues over aging and babies

LegacyUser

Hi All,
Looking for some advice. My partner and I are living together and renting we are both 35 been together 6 years. I want children and he says he does too, however he refuses to start trying until we own our own home. Considering the current housing situation this isn't going to happen for at least another two years.
We have talked about this and he is obviously aware that my fertility is now rapidly declining, but he won't budge.
I suspect he is just avoiding having children, the other night when we were talking he said "why don't you freeze your eggs" this threw me... he said "that way you have a fall back plan when we try to have them when you are older"

I'm now seriously considering this, he denies not wanting children..but this suggestion from him seems like covering his bases ..keeping me sweet so we can stop talking about this. ..and making him feel less guilty when he possibly turns around in two years and says "nah let's have dog first" or some nonsense.

I don't know what to do. I'm so frustrated by this, but in a way I'm thinking ..ya know what freeze my eggs and if he decides to flake at least I have completely ruined my chances of having children in the future (I know it's not fool proof)

I realise this is not a good basis for going forward in our relationship..I'm lost I don't know what to think.

Any words of wisdom very much appreciated
Thanks all

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[Deleted User]

I don't think anyone has asked, but what is your financial situation?

Do you have a deposit saved and are you in a position to start looking at houses? Would you get mortgage approval now?

Having a child will impact on what you can save, and what banks will allow you to borrow - that's just a fact. Especially if you then have to factor in (unpaid?) maternity leave and/or childcare costs if/when you return to work.

Unless there is something more specific he has said that makes you believe he doesn't want kids, I wouldn't jump to the assumption that he is using buying a home first as a way to get out of having them.

He is probably thinking of the financial aspects, not the biological ones. Most men are not actually that complicated.

LegacyUser

I don't know much about these things but is it possible to get some kind of fertility tests done to check your fertility health, or is that only possible for women who have been actively trying to get pregnant but haven't succeeded?

Antares35

image verification wrote: »

I don't know much about these things but is it possible to get some kind of fertility tests done to check your fertility health, or is that only possible for women who have been actively trying to get pregnant but haven't succeeded?

You can get it done. I had a test called AMH level testing when I was 33. But that one just tests the level of AMH in your blood which is indicative of the amount of eggs you have left. But a "good" result isn't a guarantee of pregnancy (nor is a "bad" one indicative that you won't be successful) because it only takes one egg, but it is the quality of eggs that is important. I don't know about other tests, I'm sure there must be. I was told at 33 that my AMH was the average level of a 36 year old, and to "go within the year" if I wanted to be sure of pregnancy. I wasn't with someone I wanted to have a child with at the time so I didn't. Was almost 37 having my first and no problems getting pregnant.

Teyla Emmagan

image verification wrote: »

I don't know much about these things but is it possible to get some kind of fertility tests done to check your fertility health, or is that only possible for women who have been actively trying to get pregnant but haven't succeeded?

It doesn't matter. You can be the most fertile woman in the world at 33 but it is no guarantee of longevity. It just means you are fertile right now. Every single woman goes through the same pattern, no matter where you start from we all go off a cliff at age 35, or whenever it is.

I also had my eggs frozen and my experience was painful, harrowing, and extremely expensive. There has been about 20k spent on those eggs so far and they are an absolute shot in the dark. I think having a baby would have been easier at this stage.

Women just have a very limited window and that's it.

beauf

Gettingold1234 wrote: »

....

I realise this is not a good basis for going forward in our relationship..I'm lost I don't know what to think.

Any words of wisdom very much appreciated
Thanks all

You can't wait any longer. You are out of time. You have to decide is the relationship viable if he doesn't want kids or wants to delay any more. Then decide to walk if its not..and you have to do it now. There is no point waiting any longer to decide this.

He could string this out for another 5yrs then decide no and you are out of options. Or decide to have kids with someone younger. If you leave you might not find another partner. But at least you have tried and be not worse off than you are now.

I wouldn't go down the freezing route. It's not the issue here.

Hannibal_Smith

Mod Note

AmyMurphy22, welcome to PI. When replying to threads here posters are asked to offer constructive advice to an OP. Disagreeing with other posters in the context of offering advice to an OP is fine but so far you have offered none.

Jarvis, tricking someone into parenthood, whilst it may seem like constructive advice to you is not helpful to the OP or their situation. Of course all advice is welcome here and its up to the OP, to accept or reject as they see fit. But please bear in mind the ramifications of advice and that there are two peoples lives involved here.

Thanks

HS

GingerLily

Antares35 wrote: »

You can get it done. I had a test called AMH level testing when I was 33. But that one just tests the level of AMH in your blood which is indicative of the amount of eggs you have left. But a "good" result isn't a guarantee of pregnancy (nor is a "bad" one indicative that you won't be successful) because it only takes one egg, but it is the quality of eggs that is important. I don't know about other tests, I'm sure there must be. I was told at 33 that my AMH was the average level of a 36 year old, and to "go within the year" if I wanted to be sure of pregnancy. I wasn't with someone I wanted to have a child with at the time so I didn't. Was almost 37 having my first and no problems getting pregnant.

I had this test and I had an excellent egg count for my age, my friend had a terrible egg count (5th percentile), she decided to start trying that month and conceived, I waited a few months and then it took me a while, a year in total at the age of 33.

My point being, even if you have a favourable result for a test, the proof is in the pudding, and the later you delay the worse your odds are for conceiving.

beauf

Even if you started trying to have a baby today, there is no way of knowing how long it could take to have a successful pregnancy.
Not just pregnant, successful delivery of a healthy baby.
People might have a load of pregnancies but only one or none successful birth. Its kind of a lottery.

So the OP has to draw a line in the sand is this a deal breaker for her. If it is, she has to act now.
There is zero reason to wait. Its time to make a decision, and act on it. Then live with it.

That might be to accept not having a baby, or not to accept that.

PoisonIvyBelle

OP do not listen to this "tricking him" stuff, it's absolutely mental! Can you imagine having to hide that forever, having to look at your child knowing that you lied to his father in order for them to exist? Knowing that the trust in your relationship will be absolutely shattered if he ever finds out? Not to mention the fact that you'll be destroying the relationship you have right now regardless because this will always be in your mind.

Do not do it. It is mental.

YellowLead

Just because other people do manipulative things sometimes doesn’t mean we should go around recommending it.

And it often backfires in the end - sure the man might stick around but he is often resentful and feels trapped and often looks for affairs.

Hannibal_Smith

Mod Note

AmyMurphy22 if you have an issue with Moderator instruction then as per the Charter you are welcome to PM the Mod in question, but discussing it on thread is considered off topic. Do not do it going forward and perhaps take a read of the Charter before posting in PI/RI again.

HS

[Deleted User]

It is completely understandable that he would want to provide a stable environment for a child. A home is a key (but not the only) ingredient in this. He has had the past 6 years to provide this. He has not. He needs to face reality that due to the timeframes he has failed to do this in time, so the only option is to forge on ahead and put the home bit of the puzzle into place before the child is more than a couple of years old.

Neyite

Mod:

Stop suggesting unethical or downright fraudulent behaviour. It's against the charter so I'm going to be deleting any posts that breach that rule.

It's highly unethical to suggest a deliberate pregnancy.
It's fraudulent to lie on a mortgage application.
And it's against the charter to backseat mod, attack other posters (including in private messaging)

[Deleted User]

Kolten Putrid Ragweed wrote: »

It is completely understandable that he would want to provide a stable environment for a child. A home is a key (but not the only) ingredient in this. He has had the past 6 years to provide this. He has not.

I think you mean THEY.

[Deleted User]

Deleted User wrote: »

I think you mean THEY.

No, I mean he, because he is the one who thinks they should not have a kid because they don't have a house. If this is such a big deal to him he had plenty of time to sort it.

[Deleted User]

Kolten Putrid Ragweed wrote: »

No, I mean he, because he is the one who thinks they should not have a kid because they don't have a house. If this is such a big deal to him he had plenty of time to sort it.

They've been together six years, so if they do not have a house yet, it is down to both of them.

LegacyUser

Hi OP, I think you really need to spell it out to him and make sure he understands the timelines involved any why you are so concerned.

Plot it out in real time i.e. if you start trying today and it takes you as long as the average couple which is 6 months, you are likely to fall pregnant in October 2021, then with 9 months of pregnancy you will give birth in June 2022, you will be X age, he will be Y age.

If it takes 12 month etc.

If you want baby number two...etc etc. If you a quicker than average on the first conception, maybe ye can slow down the timeline of the second and so on.

Do best care scenario, worst case etc, play with the numbers to show the examples. Even write it down on a timeline.

This will make it more real and hopefully he will understand it better then.

A friend of mine did similar and her husband freaked when it realised that the chances of a third child were so unlikely. In his head, 3 x 9 months total 27 months so he would have 3 kids under 2 and a half year. We slag him about it since, as he clearly though he could get her pregnant for the second, the minute she give birth to the first! In a lot of cases, men are more direct in their thinking so 3 x 9 is understandable but illogical.

If he still has a dismissive attitude then you have to reassess what's important to you.

ILoveYourVibes

Your partner doesn't seem very well read up on things and doesn't seem to be living in reality.

You freeze your eggs ..you need all the other medication etc.

He is being very childish and selfish.

I am not sure how to advise you with him though. I don't think his perception being so shallow that you can change it enough to make him see.

Honestly something is wrong ..he doesn't seem honest about how he really feels about kids.

LegacyUser

Regular user, but anon for this one...

Sounds to me like he's not ready/not committed to the idea of kids, and is using the home-buying as a way to put off having that discussion.

To be honest, I'd say it's not an uncommon thing either. I reckon if they were honest about it, most lads would be quite happy without kids but reach a point in the relationship where they have to go along (as the pressure generally comes from their partner who is under greater peer/family/social pressure in that regard as well as a biological "deadline"), or lose her.

Thankfully most guys then grow into the role, but many don't hence why you see so many single mothers from the outset or soon afterwards, or why they don't want to be/aren't really involved etc. Most boys don't grow up wanting to settle down, meet someone and have a family - we can blame Disney for that one I guess!

Of course there's guys who want kids just as much (or more) from the start, but I'd say the group above outnumber this group.

Anyway... OP, you know the guy best and I think he falls into the first group from what you've said. Has he ever (without prompting/prodding) expressed a desire for kids? Have his friends/brothers-if-any got kids? I think you'll have to sit him down and get his true feelings on it but be prepared for a lot of "of course I do!" at first.

If he doesn't or remains non-commital, then you need to decide if you can be happy with him without them. If not, it's time to walk away I'm afraid before ye get any more tied together (mortgage, marriage etc).

bitofabind

The question to ask your boyfriend might be, do you want more than one child? And do you want them with me? And then crunch some numbers along the timeline towards 40. One year to conceive, another nine months before birth, already you're at 37. One year to settle into motherhood, etc.

givyjoe

Neyite wrote: »

Freezing eggs is a last resort - and an expensive, pretty gruelling one.
Many eggs fail when defrosted which is why they recommend you freeze embryos. And for that you need ICSI where a single sperm is injected into the egg, then frozen for use at a later date. You need to pay an annual amount to keep them.

First you go on medicines or injections to take control of your menstrual cycle. These effectively cause a temporary menopause. So expect things like mood swings, hormone issues, hot flushes, reactions to meds and so on. Next, take medications or injections to stimulate your ovaries into producing several eggs, Again, because you are producing more than you normally would, expect some side effects - Next you go into the clinic where they do a transvaginal ultrasound - nicknamed dildo cam. It's basically a thick wand with a camera at the end that's inserted into your vagina. Depending on how your follicles are maturing, you may need a repeat appointment. Then it's time for egg retrieval. Which is a needle going into your abdomen. Sore but necessary. Then the eggs are fertilised and they see how many were retrieved, and how many survived to day 5.

When you do want to get pregnant, you basically repeat the process except for egg retrieval and you go on different drugs after implantation (also an injection) to support the first few weeks - and again, financial costs are involved and it's not a guaranteed baby at the end of it.

Men usually get the better end of the deal - they get handed an adult magazine and a cup and go into a private room. For men with fertility issues they may need a needle through the testes to retrieve singular sperm - it would be interesting to see if he'd be willing to go through that alone -it would be very illuminating.

You could go through all this and in 5 years time he could simply withdraw his consent for you to use the embryos containing his genetic material. A famous case is Sofia Vergara who's ex wants to use embryos they froze while together, and she successfully blocked him in several court cases.

This stuff isn't the doddle he thinks it is. There's a lot involved and it puts our bodies through hell and back - but most of us do it because usual family planning didn't work for us and we have no option but to endure it in order to have a family.

I think you and he need to look in depth into this - both of you to realise what's involved and see that it's not just a nice neat solution. Houses can be bought at any time, babies have a timeframe.

Houses most certainly cannot be bought at any time, at least they can't if a bank won't give you the mortgage to cover it. Having a child may significantly affect your ability to access sufficient funds to cover the cost of purchase. Having a house in place before hand is a perfectly rational stance to take. having a child or children before you put this in place is irresponsible if you know you won't be able to once they come along. This, ah sure be grand attitude is exactly how people end up on the housing list/homeless. It may not be remotely applicable here, so apologies if I missed the detail saying it isn't.

Galbin

I understand that this is considered the "wrong" opinion nowadays, but I would never have kids with someone I was not married to unless it was an unplanned pregnancy. Forget about the house, I would be wondering what is the point of being together for six years with no permanent commitment. Now, of course, some people don't believe in the concept of marriage, so that is a different thing. However, if you do want to get married I wonder why he hasn't asked yet. Coupled with his odd comment about freezing your eggs, it doesn't sound like he is all in to me.

Personally, I would have a serious talk with him about the future of our relationship. There are so many men out there who would love nothing more than to get married and have kids, so there is no need to waste time on someone who has no clue about what he actually wants.

Galbin

Also, as someone who sacrificed their health (both physical and mental) with infertility treatment that did not work, I can tell you that it is not as easy as it sounds. Freezing your eggs does not guarantee you a live birth in the future.

LegacyUser

Hi OP,

Its must be extremely frustrating for you. From his point of view, he essentially saying to you “I’ll figure it out later”, deliberately putting off the conversation to avoid a fight.

An in-depth and frank conversation needs to be had where you lay your cards out on the table. It needs to be done as a conversation with real answers and zero deflection (house purchases etc).

Does he want kids with simple yes/no answers. If he is still deflecting and squirming, you need to try and understand why, is it fear or is it something else?

The remark made regarding freezing your eggs, I have been on the receiving end of a similar statement and its extremely hurtful. They expect it to be the magic ticket to put off the conversation or deal with it at a later time not realising that this isn’t as easy as it sounds. Explain to him why this might not work.

I do understand he’d like a more settled environment BUT buying a house takes time and there are no guarantees that the house buying process will be quick. As you mentioned in your post, it could another 1/2 years but buying sometimes it can even take longer. For example, if ye purchase a do-upper it will add even more time. But even after going through this process will there be another excuse 2/3 years down the line?

Its not fair as this is your fertility and your future too. Unfortunately you need to ask the difficult questions here as he won’t.

I can understand you are frustrated, anxious and unsure as to where this leaves your relationship. As mentioned a discussion needs to happen, it may be uncomfortable but you need to know exactly where you stand with him and his feeling regarding children and your future. As horrible as it is to say, if he back-pedals even more, you need to decide if this is a dealbreaker for you. Its best to know the reality of the situation rather than another 2/3 years down the line.

I echo another posters sentiment, he needs to p*ss or get off the pot.

heretothere

As others have said you really need to have a frank conversation with him. I do get the wanting his own house/ security first but that's not always possible. I know plenty of people who had children in "not perfect" situations, but everything has worked out fine. Bought houses, had more kids, got married all after having a child.

Unfortunately it's not as easy to get pregnant as I thought it would be! I'm 33, been trying for over a year now. I had one miscarriage late last year. It's only now I have discovered how erratic my cycle is, 30 days one month, 38 the next making it really hard to predict ovulation! I never knew because the pill made it regular.

It will be hard, but if this is a deal breaker for you, you need to know now. It would have been for me.

FintanMcluskey

Issues like this are one of the problems with a couple the same age.

Men mature slower and an age gap (of many years) is often beneficial

His issues are genuine, but he’s not considering his partners.

Have a talk but be willing to walk away

[Deleted User]

shesty wrote: »

Setting aside fertility, I am 39 with 3 kids and I am TIRED.Can't tell you how many men I know who had kids in their very late 30s and early 40s and who realised how exhausting it is, and will often say they wish they had them earlier. There are many good reasons we are at our most fertile in our early 20s, and that's one of them.

Plus 2 to this.
I had 3 before I hit 28 and it was soo different.
One at 35 and we feel every minute of that.

threetrees

I can understand him wanting to be settled with a house and perhaps be financially secure before having children. However, it's not realistic, if we all waited then there'd be far fewer babies being born. Freezing eggs is not a solution, it's lip service. Does he know what's involved and how much it is?

Honestly, a big chat on wants and babies and fertility and your path as a couple is needed.

[Deleted User]

As mentioned freezing your eggs is not a doddle and you more than likely have a much better chance of conceiving by having sex, sooner rather than later!

Just a point on the house thing. Myself and my partner (of 8 years at the time) decided to have a child while renting. We could have bought a house first but we wanted a child and the renting thing didn’t bother us. Thankfully I got pregnant straight away and we now have an almost 2 year old. Still in the same rented house. We have mortage approval and are looking for somewhere to buy. Yes, we do regret not buying a few years ago but purely because prices are so high now. We’ve been approved for same mortgage amount as we would have done without a dependent and that’s with creche fees.

In your position I’d be seriously hurrying things up and trying to convince him that you don’t need your own place to have a child. But maybe speak with a mortgage broker first, purely for financial reasons.

I was 29 when I got pregnant but wanted to be relatively young having a child so we just went for it. At your age you both really need to take this seriously.

whomadewho

Gettingold1234 wrote: »

Hi All,
Looking for some advice. My partner and I are living together and renting we are both 35 been together 6 years. I want children and he says he does too, however he refuses to start trying until we own our own home. Considering the current housing situation this isn't going to happen for at least another two years.
We have talked about this and he is obviously aware that my fertility is now rapidly declining, but he won't budge.
I suspect he is just avoiding having children, the other night when we were talking he said "why don't you freeze your eggs" this threw me... he said "that way you have a fall back plan when we try to have them when you are older"

I'm now seriously considering this, he denies not wanting children..but this suggestion from him seems like covering his bases ..keeping me sweet so we can stop talking about this. ..and making him feel less guilty when he possibly turns around in two years and says "nah let's have dog first" or some nonsense.

I don't know what to do. I'm so frustrated by this, but in a way I'm thinking ..ya know what freeze my eggs and if he decides to flake at least I have completely ruined my chances of having children in the future (I know it's not fool proof)

I realise this is not a good basis for going forward in our relationship..I'm lost I don't know what to think.

Any words of wisdom very much appreciated
Thanks all

In a LTR with the other half, I always wanted kids, but partner told me she didn't want them, she had more interest in drinking and socialising. I was thinking of leaving and now she decided she wanted them, so we tried for 6 months with no luck, went to an ivf clinic to get everything checked out. Everything was perfect on both sides, doctor said it should happen naturally, tried for another 6 months and no luck.
Went back to ivf clinic and had 3 rounds to of ivf to great financial cost, with no luck.
We are trying using eastern herbal methods and still no luck. Partner wants to go back down the ivf route again, but I'm reluctant now as we are both at an age where there is chance it could happen but the probability is it wont happen. Partner seems to be in panic mode after leaving it to late, so wants to spend ever last penny we have trying to get pregnent when if she only tried earlier i.e before 35 which probably would have happened naturally.
My advice is, if you really want kids, get the ball rolling asap with your current partner or if you have to break up just break up, I probably should have done it myself, as the chances of getting pregnant nose dive after the age of 35.