Water charges for excessive usage

liatroimabu · 18-07-2019 4:55pm

Plumbthedepths wrote: »

So you need to spend 2 k the state gives you 1.5k in the form of a grant and you are claiming others are looking for stuff for free.....ha ha ha. Up the yard lad.

No I had to spend 3.2k, the state paying 1.5k, the €1700 I paid is more than the majority of people will ever pay in their lives for water because they pay nothing and expect it for free for some reason.

So yes I got a help from the govt. I never said there was anything wrong with help or aid if people need it, just this mularky of people expecting everything for nothing and to have to make no contribution is utter tripe.

klaaaz · 18-07-2019 4:56pm

Benedict wrote: »

Look, car-tax is fair. But what if we were told that those with blue cars had to pay tax and people with red cars didn't - and you had a blue car. would you be happy to pay? Cos I wouldn't!

Car tax aka motor tax is unfair, pre-2008 cars largely owned by poorer people are charged a whopping fortune subsidising post 2008 cars owned by wealthier people. Replace it with a tax on fuel instead but as it is, it's urban drivers subsidising rural drivers.

On the subject of the motor tax, does 66% of the motor tax still go to IW ?

Spanish Eyes · 18-07-2019 4:58pm

It's an opening gambit methinks. I have no problem whatsoever with conservation of water and my water butts and my garden thank me for the rainwater.

But there is only so much I can do. I had no objection to a water meter on the path outside my house, nor did anyone else around here.

But the thought of people like us (who pay for everything, but get little in return), being fined for slight overuse or mega overuse, when the underground pipes are leaking like a sieve, and those elsewhere without meters cannot be immediately identified either, is just farcical to me.

I think this time, those who agreed to water meters (or at least didn't object) will put Paul Murphy to the kerb on this one. At least I will. I've had enough now.

Plumbthedepths · 18-07-2019 5:00pm

liatroimabu wrote:

So yes I got a help from the govt. I never said there was anything wrong with help or aid if people need it, just this mularky of people expecting everything for nothing and to have to make no contribution is utter tripe.

You got 1700 euro for free for living in the sticks by your own choice. You think you pay the full economic cost of the road that runs by your gaff or the ESB lines that supply your home with electricity, other tax payers have paid for you to be able to live where you do. The only mularky is this 'everything for nothing' bs which is trotted out repeatedly.

liatroimabu · 18-07-2019 5:04pm

Plumbthedepths wrote: »

You got 1700 euro for free for living in the sticks by your own choice. You think you pay the full economic cost of the road that runs by your gaff or the ESB lines that supply your home with electricity, other tax payers have paid for you to be able to live where you do. The only mularky is this 'everything for nothing' bs which is trotted out repeatedly.

*1500. Yes I live in the sticks by my own choice and pay my taxes the same as everyone else round here and those in urban areas that do also.

If it so happens that between myself and others in my parish or locality, that we don't cover the costs of the small amenities we have in the area, I would be very surprised.

The rhetoric of living in rural Ireland so tough you should have to pay more for everything is akin to me saying I pay for many people in urban areas by working and paying taxes seeing as a number of people in these areas are lifelong social welfare recipients.

It is everything for nothing you and others of your opinion want though, you dont want to pay water charges but want water?

Benedict · 18-07-2019 5:04pm

But would you not stand up for yourself if you were threatened with a fine for using a bit too much while the guy down the road had his lawn sprinkler going all day without a worry in the world because he wouldn't allow a meter to be installed?

The rule is for everyone - or it's for no-one.

Plumbthedepths · 18-07-2019 5:10pm

liatroimabu wrote:

The rhetoric of living in rural Ireland so tough you should have to pay more for everything is akin to me saying I pay for many people in urban areas by working and paying taxes seeing as a number of people in these areas are lifelong social welfare recipients.

Dude providing services to a large population centred in one location is incredibly cheap compared to servicing one off gaffs miles apart.

padd b1975 · 18-07-2019 5:10pm

Matt Barrett wrote: »

If you're unemployed or sick you get Hogan's trickle?

How do these poor unfortunates manage with the other utility bills?

Boggles · 18-07-2019 5:11pm

blackcard wrote: »

I think you would be looking at something in the region of 40 billion to bring the network up to scratch or to "fix the leaky pipes" as some people call it.

I appreciate the answer, but where did your 40 billion figure come from?

blackcard wrote: »

That excludes the cost of disruption to businesses and the general public as the roads are dug up in our cities and towns.

In my town they have been at this constantly for a decade, no one even complains about it anymore.

BarryD2 · 18-07-2019 5:12pm

Benedict wrote: »

But would you not stand up for yourself if you were threatened with a fine for using a bit too much while the guy down the road had his lawn sprinkler going all day without a worry in the world because he wouldn't allow a meter to be installed?

The rule is for everyone - or it's for no-one.

That's a silly excuse, plainly a meter should be installed for the 'fecker' with his lawn sprinkler. And if he refuses, cut him off. His better half won't be long clipping him about the ears and telling to grow up and stop being such a pain in the arse.

liatroimabu · 18-07-2019 5:12pm

Plumbthedepths wrote: »

Dude providing services to a large population centred in one location is incredibly cheap compared to servicing one off gaffs miles apart.

Not disagreeing on that, and if you read back you'll see I said if it came to it then fair enough I'd pay more if required maintenance etc. was specifically for me or a few houses that were being serviced by one line, one road, whatever it may be.

You conveniently either ignored or disregarded my point about the whole everything for nothing argument.

You want water but you don't want to pay for it? Is that not the definition of getting something for nothing?

BarryD2 · 18-07-2019 5:16pm

Plumbthedepths wrote: »

What's has multiple ensuites got to do with anything?

Well what do you think multiple ensuites has got to do with the excessive use of water?? Like I say, most people of public water supplies have little clue about moderate use.

I'm sure the lucky few with swimming pools too regard their usage as reasonable as if you've got one, well it's reasonable to change the water in it every now & then.

Spanish Eyes · 18-07-2019 5:21pm

BarryD2 wrote: »

That's a silly excuse, plainly a meter should be installed for the 'fecker' with his lawn sprinkler. And if he refuses, cut him off. His better half won't be long clipping him about the ears and telling to grow up and stop being such a pain in the arse.

Come on now. Installing meters in areas where they were opposed to by the Paul Murphy types will NEVER be metered unless mayhem is factored in again. They know this, we know this.

But as usual, those who were law abiding and agreed to the installation of meters will bear the brunt.

I think the Government need to watch this. Those who pay for everything will rise up very soon I think. Well I will. I am sick of it now.

Plumbthedepths · 18-07-2019 5:22pm

liatroimabu wrote:

You conveniently either ignored or disregarded my point about the whole everything for nothing argument.

I didn't ignore it I said it was bs.

blackcard · 18-07-2019 5:22pm

Boggles wrote: »

blackcard wrote: »

I think you would be looking at something in the region of 40 billion to bring the network up to scratch or to "fix the leaky pipes" as some people call it.

I appreciate the answer, but where did your 40 billion figure come from?

blackcard wrote: »

That excludes the cost of disruption to businesses and the general public as the roads are dug up in our cities and towns.

In my town they have been at this constantly for a decade, no one even complains about it anymore.

100,000 ķm @ €400/m to include design, site investigation, construction, supervision etc.

Benedict · 18-07-2019 5:22pm

BarryD2 wrote: »

That's a silly excuse, plainly a meter should be installed for the 'fecker' with his lawn sprinkler. And if he refuses, cut him off. His better half won't be long clipping him about the ears and telling to grow up and stop being such a pain in the arse.

The question is, would you be happy paying a fine while others were doing the same thing but weren't getting fined? It sounds like you would be happy?

So is it "yes" or "no"?

liatroimabu · 18-07-2019 5:28pm

Plumbthedepths wrote: »

I didn't ignore it I said it was bs.

But once again I ask, you want water, but you don't want to pay water charges, is that not wanting something for nothing? i.e. making my point valid and not bs as you call it

Brendan Bendar · 18-07-2019 5:39pm

Benedict wrote: »

The question is, would you be happy paying a fine while others were doing the same thing but weren't getting fined? It sounds like you would be happy?

So is it "yes" or "no"?

There’s whether this stuff will either fail or succeed.

Here’s my position.

I will pay no fine while a certain coterie are not metered.

Must be a level playing field for the Brenner, otherwise this ‘strategy’ is complete and utter bull crap.

Must. Be. A. Level. Playing. Field.

Boggles · 18-07-2019 5:39pm

blackcard wrote: »

100,000 ķm @ €400/m to include design, site investigation, construction, supervision etc.

Okay then, where did you get those figures from?

Brendan Bendar · 18-07-2019 5:41pm

Spanish Eyes wrote: »

Come on now. Installing meters in areas where they were opposed to by the Paul Murphy types will NEVER be metered unless mayhem is factored in again. They know this, we know this.

But as usual, those who were law abiding and agreed to the installation of meters will bear the brunt.

I think the Government need to watch this. Those who pay for everything will rise up very soon I think. Well I will. I am sick of it now.

Goddamn right, amigo,goddamn right.

18-07-2019 5:41pm

zimmermania wrote: »

What about all the apartment dwellers who do not have meters?

One meter on the main pipe into the complex, bill the OMC. Same as is currently done for common areas with the ESB bill.

Plumbthedepths · 18-07-2019 5:43pm

liatroimabu wrote:

But once again I ask, you want water, but you don't want to pay water charges, is that not wanting something for nothing? i.e. making my point valid and not bs as you call it

My LPT, my motor tax goes towards water provision as I'm sure some of my income tax ,USC , excise , vat I also pay. Hell I'm sure some the taxes I pay even make there way to people like you claiming grants for wells and farm related grants. So yeah your claim about something for nothing is bs unless you can't see the hypocrisy of claiming a grant yourself which is by definition 'FREE'.

ChikiChiki · 18-07-2019 5:46pm

The main reason for the water charge protests from a few years ago was the blatant corruption and cronyism that was going on. People were not going to pay for that.

It was never about paying for water for the majority of the protesters most of whom would have no issue paying for usage. I was proud that day over 100,000 people walked through the city centre.

Feels a bit like the last sting of a dying wasp from FG. The timing of this hitting the news is interesting.

liatroimabu · 18-07-2019 5:47pm

Plumbthedepths wrote: »

My LPT, my motor tax goes towards water provision as I'm sure some of my income tax ,USC , excise , vat I also pay. Hell I'm sure some the taxes I pay even make there way to people like you claiming grants for wells and farm related grants. So yeah your claim about something for nothing is bs unless you can't see the hypocrisy of claiming a grant yourself which is by definition 'FREE'.

Ok so I pay all those things as well but had to pay for some of the installation of filtration system and such. In addition to that , this tax also pays for healthcare, roads, civil service, government and other public areas not just your water.

Get over yourself, put the hand in your pocket and pay up like every other person in the EU instead of cribbing and crying over 1.60 a week.

liatroimabu · 18-07-2019 5:48pm

ChikiChiki wrote: »

The main reason for the water charge protests from a few years ago was the blatant corruption and cronyism that was going on. People were not going to pay for that.

It was never about paying for water for the majority of the protesters most of whom would have no issue paying for usage. I was proud that day over 100,000 people walked through the city centre

If they were brought back in the morning with a system that was beyond perfect, no corruption or anything of the like, you'd still have thousands protesting because they just simply want it for free.

odyssey06 · 18-07-2019 5:53pm

liatroimabu wrote: »

If they were brought back in the morning with a system that was beyond perfect, no corruption or anything of the like, you'd still have thousands protesting because they just simply want it for free.

Maybe, but the reason why the government capitulated was that hundreds of thousands rejected Irish Water for the reasons above i.e. the corruption and gombeenism AND the Paul Murphy types... that's why the protest reached critical mass.

ChikiChiki · 18-07-2019 5:54pm

liatroimabu wrote: »

ChikiChiki wrote: »

The main reason for the water charge protests from a few years ago was the blatant corruption and cronyism that was going on. People were not going to pay for that.

It was never about paying for water for the majority of the protesters most of whom would have no issue paying for usage. I was proud that day over 100,000 people walked through the city centre

If they were brought back in the morning with a system that was beyond perfect, no corruption or anything of the like, you'd still have thousands protesting because they just simply want it for free.

No doubt, You'll always get the professional protest class. But it would be far far less.

Office workers were spending their lunch breaks outside Leinster house at rallys against IW and for very good reason. The movement was made up of normal hard working people. They could see right through the scam.

odyssey06 · 18-07-2019 5:55pm

Plumbthedepths wrote: »

My LPT, my motor tax goes towards water provision as I'm sure some of my income tax ,USC , excise , vat I also pay...

Not just that.

Commercial water is charged per metered use.
So any time you are using a service that uses the mains water, you are paying too.

Plumbthedepths · 18-07-2019 5:56pm

BarryD2 wrote:

Well what do you think multiple ensuites has got to do with the excessive use of water?? Like I say, most people of public water supplies have little clue about moderate use.

Again multiple ensuites is a stupid agrument. Two people in a house want to use the only toilet, one waits but still it's flushed twice, likewise for a shower bath etc. Same house two people but an ensuite as well as a bathroom. No waiting but the same water usage. Silly analogy tbh.

decky1 · 18-07-2019 5:57pm

1.85 for a thousand litre's not bad, look at the price of it in the shops and it's flying off the shelves. people were only fooling themselves if they thought this issue was going away, this is only the start, Brace yourselves.

Plumbthedepths · 18-07-2019 5:58pm

Spanish Eyes wrote:

I think the Government need to watch this. Those who pay for everything will rise up very soon I think. Well I will. I am sick of it now.

No they won't, they just post here whinging about those that are willing to rise up.

Boggles · 18-07-2019 5:58pm

liatroimabu wrote: »

No I had to spend 3.2k, the state paying 1.5k, the €1700 I paid is more than the majority of people will ever pay in their lives for water because they pay nothing and expect it for free for some reason.

Can be close to 5 grand for Irish Water to connect someone up to the mains.

No grant is available.

liatroimabu · 18-07-2019 6:01pm

Boggles wrote: »

Can be close to 5 grand for Irish Water to connect someone up to the mains.

No grant is available.

Then fair enough one should be available if required connection costs this and the person isn't so affluent that 5k would be a nothing to them (so for 99% of people basically).

My problem is with people who want to make absolutely no contribution to anything but still want to receive the same benefits or services as people who do.

Spanish Eyes · 18-07-2019 6:01pm

odyssey06 wrote: »

Maybe, but the reason why the government capitulated was that hundreds of thousands rejected Irish Water for the reasons above i.e. the corruption and gombeenism AND the Paul Murphy types... that's why the protest reached critical mass.

And yet here we are, those of us who complied and allowed meters to be installed can be monitored to within a cubic metre or so. Whilst those who refused cannot be monitored correctly, if at all. Daft.

Time for the middle ground to fight back I say. Our time might come soon now :P

Plumbthedepths · 18-07-2019 6:02pm

liatroimabu wrote:

Get over yourself, put the hand in your pocket and pay up like every other person in the EU instead of cribbing and crying over 1.60 a week.

The irony of a farmer telling me to pay up. I went to college with the kids of farmers all on grants I the son of a paye worker had to work my way through college.You pay your own way without the hand out looking for grants off the state and EU then you have the right to lecture me.

InTheShadows · 18-07-2019 6:06pm

Berserker wrote: »

They didn't. The looked at the results of the last election, told the electorate that they "got the message" and are using that change in the voting pattern to implement these changes. They've been waiting for an opportunity to implement these charges and the green vote has given them that chance.

The Green vote? They got less than 8% of those who voted. But hey the green wave what

InTheShadows · 18-07-2019 6:07pm

liatroimabu wrote: »

If they were brought back in the morning with a system that was beyond perfect, no corruption or anything of the like, you'd still have thousands protesting because they just simply want it for free.

Its not free. We already pay for it through our taxes.

Spanish Eyes · 18-07-2019 6:07pm

Plumbthedepths wrote: »

No they won't, they just post here whinging about those that are willing to rise up.

I think they will though, the time is right and it's about time those who pay for everything get a voice.

I am one of them mark my words. I will be very angry if my meter outside on the path, legally installed with no issue is used to charge me, whereas those with no meters will not have the same accuracy of usage, if at all.

Plumbthedepths · 18-07-2019 6:10pm

Spanish Eyes wrote:

I think they will though, the time is right and it's about time those who pay for everything get a voice.

They won't, they didn't when the USC was introduced they didn't when all the other measures were introduced. They'll just whinge like you are now.

Spanish Eyes wrote:

I am one of them mark my words. I will be very angry if my meter outside on the path, legally installed with no issue is used to charge me, whereas those with no meters will not have the same accuracy of usage, if at all.

Why did you think the meter was installed if not to charge you?

You're annoyed because others said enough was enough and to hell with the consequences. They had a back bone you didn't.

Boggles · 18-07-2019 6:11pm

liatroimabu wrote: »

Then fair enough one should be available if required connection costs this and the person isn't so affluent that 5k would be a nothing to them (so for 99% of people basically).

Why would you base it on the affluence of a person, were you means tested to get your private well grant?

Also what water source do you use to service your farm?

McMurphy · 18-07-2019 6:12pm

NIMAN wrote: »

Is everyone going to be treated the same this time round?

I had a meter installed outside my house, but what about all those that didn't due to protests? Are these properties going to get meters installed, or are those people who cause trouble and perhaps waste water get away with it while the rest of us pay?

I thought you live in Derry?

Did a Donegal division of IW cross over the border and invade the north or what?

liatroimabu · 18-07-2019 6:13pm

Plumbthedepths wrote: »

The irony of a farmer telling me to pay up. I went to college with the kids of farmers all on grants I the son of a paye worker had to work my way through college.You pay your own way without the hand out looking for grants off the state and EU then you have the right to lecture me.

I'm not the one opposed to paying for a basic service, go take your farmer bashing somewhere else.

Plumbthedepths · 18-07-2019 6:16pm

liatroimabu wrote:

I'm not the one opposed to paying for a basic service, go take your farmer bashing somewhere else.

lol but you're happy to accept money from other taxpayers to fund your lifestyle and farming occupation in the form of EU grants. The hypocrisy off you is unbelievable.

liatroimabu · 18-07-2019 6:18pm

Boggles wrote: »

Why would you base it on the affluence of a person, were you means tested to get your private well grant?

Also what water source do you use to service your farm?

Well if it happened to be some big mansion in the ass end of nowhere for someone wanting privacy and them being a millionaire and can afford it themselves then let them pay for it. I wasn't means tested but would be more than open to that process being in place and also the grant is capped at 75% of cost, with maximum cost being roughly 2k, after that youre on your own.

I use my own private well with the infrastructure installed to have water for cattle without needing the same filtration system. So go ahead and join the farmer bashing thats started on here, when you're willing to pay for a service then come back to me with the farmer bashing fair enough.

liatroimabu · 18-07-2019 6:19pm

Plumbthedepths wrote: »

lol but you're happy to accept money from other taxpayers to fund your lifestyle and farming occupation in the form of EU grants. The hypocrisy off you is unbelievable.

I'm not out here demanding grants, thankfully our farm is one of the few I know locally that is actually profitable without government and EU funds.

You're the one demanding a service for free.

jimmycrackcorm · 18-07-2019 6:20pm

odyssey06 wrote: »

I think that argument was fought and lost a few years ago, politically it is dead for a generation.

When it does come back it should be implemented as a statutory eatery infrastructure levy across the board by the revenue.
But you can get it reduced if you choose to get a meter installed...

Boggles · 18-07-2019 6:21pm

liatroimabu wrote: »

I use my own private well with the infrastructure installed to have water for cattle without needing the same filtration system.

So in reality you are saving a fair bit from not being able to be hooked up the mains as commercial water rates would kick in for you, would that be fair?

Gooser14 · 18-07-2019 6:21pm

decky1 wrote:

1.85 for a thousand litre's not bad, look at the price of it in the shops and it's flying off the shelves. people were only fooling themselves if they thought this issue was going away, this is only the start, Brace yourselves.

It's 3.70 per thousand litres if your waste water is discharged into the public waste water system. The 1.85 per thousand litres will apply to those on a public water supply but whose waste water is discharged to their own septic tank.

Plumbthedepths · 18-07-2019 6:24pm

liatroimabu wrote:

You're the one demanding a service for free.

Not demanding anything for nothing lad other than some value for the taxes I pay. You on the other hand have already admitted getting a grant and all farmers are in receipt of CAP payments. Money for nothing. As I said you're a hypocrite.

liatroimabu · 18-07-2019 6:25pm

Boggles wrote: »

So in reality you are saving a fair bit from not being able to be hooked up the mains as commercial water rates would kick in for you, would that be fair?

I've already paid down 1700 for my house's water, not to mention approx another 1000 spent to have everything in place for the farm, theres 2700.

I still have to pay for maintenance of my filtration system, and when things go wrong with it , it works out as a bit more than 1.60 a week that was the original charge being asked of people. I'm ok with paying more some years and less other years because all in all it will roughly balance out. What I'm not ok with is people getting it for nothing and blatantly refusing to pay for it.

Water charges for excessive usage

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