People are leaving WhatsApp

nolivesmatter · 18-01-2021 4:37pm

What are people using Whatsapp for that has them so concerned about their privacy anyway? I thought we were all supposed to operate under the assumption that there is no guarantee of privacy online.

biko · 18-01-2021 4:56pm

Privacy doesn't have to mean secrecy.
I don't particularly fancy letting Mark Z and his business friends know what I and my family or friends are texting about.

Also, Signal is trusted by Snowden which is enough in my book.

18-01-2021 4:57pm

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Got one of two messages today from contacts leaving whatsapp due to privacy concerns.

I had to laugh, because these messages were from people who upload their whole lives to facebook or instagram every single day, and often without concern for anyone else's privacy when they do.

And suddenly they have concerns about privacy. :rolleyes:

They better get used to sms again.

Mic 1972 · 18-01-2021 4:59pm

ReginaldSmythV wrote: »

They better get used to sms again.

or they can use Signal and Telegram like a lot of people are doing

18-01-2021 5:03pm

Mic 1972 wrote: »

or they can use Signal and Telegram like a lot of people are doing

This mass migration isn’t happening. The signal or telegram icon might look nice on the phone but it’s not much use when you can’t message 95% of your contacts with them.

DavyD_83 · 18-01-2021 5:10pm

Mic 1972 wrote: »

Considering how much power we have handed over multinationals purely by allowing them to collect our personal data, than i would say that it's more than just a buzz word.
Telegram allows file sharing so you can download files that other users are uploading, i doubt your data goes to Mark Zuckergerg

Have we learnt nothing from the days of Limewire and free viruses and malware in every download?

Zuckerberg is unlikely to use your credit card details. He already knows more about you then your mam, wife and best mate combined and mostly only uses it to sell you stuff better.

I gotta check out the actual change to terms before completely dismissing/accepting but o doubt it actually changes anything they've been doing up to now.

biko · 18-01-2021 5:23pm

If I can get maybe 10 people to install Signal then that's 90% of my Whatsapp traffic accounted for.

Gooey Looey · 18-01-2021 5:41pm

I had about 8 telegram contacts 2 years ago, I now have about 40!

ben.schlomo · 18-01-2021 6:00pm

https://www.newstalk.com/news/heres-why-so-many-people-are-moving-from-whatsapp-to-signal-1136636?utm_medium=Social&utm_source=Facebook#Echobox=1610976326

So no changes for users in Europe. Fight the power man!

Mic 1972 · 18-01-2021 6:36pm

ReginaldSmythV wrote: »

This mass migration isn’t happening. The signal or telegram icon might look nice on the phone but it’s not much use when you can’t message 95% of your contacts with them.

I migrated a good 90% of my contacts on Signal and Telegram, they are still on WhatsApp too but seem happy with the new options.
And I keep getting notifications of new contacts signing up, so it looks like something is happening

Mic 1972 · 18-01-2021 6:37pm

ben.schlomo wrote: »

https://www.newstalk.com/news/heres-why-so-many-people-are-moving-from-whatsapp-to-signal-1136636?utm_medium=Social&utm_source=Facebook#Echobox=1610976326

So no changes for users in Europe. Fight the power man!

They also stopped sending the reminder to accept the new terms, ehehehe

dzsfah2xoynme9 · 18-01-2021 6:55pm

People say they care about privacy but in actual fact they don't. I often question people about it and get the usual Sure I've nothing to hide answer. If people really cared they wouldn't use any Google, Facebook or apple services. They'd have no twitter, Snapchat, Microsoft services or tik tok.
I have an android phone but it's running a rom called Graphene OS. A security hardened ROM with no Google whatsoever. Every single app I have is FOSS(free and Open Source). I pay €12 a year for my email account with a company called Tutanota. I use Telegram and Signal. Bromite for browsing. No app on my phone has trackers. And everything works fine for me along side amazing battery life.
I've taken it to the extreme but people find it far to inconvenient to give up their apps thst suck up their data.

If you're not paying for a product then you are the product..

XVII · 18-01-2021 7:02pm

I actually think we may see people generally becoming more self-aware about the internet use in some near future, especially after events like this. Like there was a beginning of the trend "you are what you eat". There will be "you are what apps you use". A bit more of self-awareness about websites you are using, User Agreements that you are accepting, etc.

or maybe it's just wishful thinking.

18-01-2021 7:03pm

Ainsley Defeated Restaurant wrote: »

People say they care about privacy but in actual fact they don't. I often question people about it and get the usual Sure I've nothing to hide answer. If people really cared they wouldn't use any Google, Facebook or apple services. They'd have no twitter, Snapchat, Microsoft services or tik tok.
I have an android phone but it's running a rom called Graphene OS. A security hardened ROM with no Google whatsoever. Every single app I have is FOSS(free and Open Source). I pay €12 a year for my email account with a company called Tutanota. I use Telegram and Signal. Bromite for browsing. No app on my phone has trackers. And everything works fine for me along side amazing battery life.
I've taken it to the extreme but people find it far to inconvenient to give up their apps thst suck up their data.

If you're not paying for a product then you are the product..

People love trotting that one out, it’s a bit like the “I know a lad that said that has a neighbour with a cousin of a lad in the army and he said....” type of guff. But what exactly is going to happen you by being the ‘product’. Are facebook or Google going to empty your bank account and steal your car?

Convenience is king. Wrapping my phone in tinfoil only seems to serve the purpose of being able to tell people you did it.

Kaybaykwah · 18-01-2021 7:05pm

ReginaldSmythV wrote: »

People love trotting that one out, it’s a bit like the “I know a lad that said that has a neighbour with a cousin of a lad in the army and he said....” type of guff. But what exactly is going to happen you by being the ‘product’. Are facebook or Google going to empty your bank account and steal your car?

Convenience is king. Wrapping your phone in tinfoil only seems to serve the purpose of being able to tell people you did it.

Let's face it, it renders it more aesthetically pleasing too.

jimmycrackcorm · 18-01-2021 7:07pm

Ainsley Defeated Restaurant wrote: »

People say they care about privacy but in actual fact they don't. I often question people about it and get the usual Sure I've nothing to hide answer. If people really cared they wouldn't use any Google, Facebook or apple services. They'd have no twitter, Snapchat, Microsoft services or tik tok.
I have an android phone but it's running a rom called Graphene OS. A security hardened ROM with no Google whatsoever. Every single app I have is FOSS(free and Open Source). I pay €12 a year for my email account with a company called Tutanota. I use Telegram and Signal. Bromite for browsing. No app on my phone has trackers. And everything works fine for me along side amazing battery life.
I've taken it to the extreme but people find it far to inconvenient to give up their apps thst suck up their data.

If you're not paying for a product then you are the product..

What benefits are you actually getting from this extreme though?

Obvious Desperate Breakfasts · 18-01-2021 7:08pm

JasonStatham wrote: »

I wouldn't be surprised if it goes out of fashion. These tech things come and go. Remember MySpace? Remember bebo?

WhatsApp has had far more sustained popularity than those two things. And people mention the things that fell out of favour but not the things that didn’t. I joined Facebook in 2008. As early as 2009, not even a year later, people were prophesying its demise. Still hasn’t happened.

vurstflavor · 18-01-2021 7:17pm

With what's app you get free calls world wide

Gooey Looey · 18-01-2021 7:22pm

vurstflavor wrote: »

With what's app you get free calls world wide

As can all the other alternatives, it's not exclusive to WhatsApp

Mic 1972 · 18-01-2021 8:03pm

Ainsley Defeated Restaurant wrote: »

People say they care about privacy but in actual fact they don't. I often question people about it and get the usual Sure I've nothing to hide answer. If people really cared they wouldn't use any Google, Facebook or apple services. They'd have no twitter, Snapchat, Microsoft services or tik tok.
I have an android phone but it's running a rom called Graphene OS. A security hardened ROM with no Google whatsoever. Every single app I have is FOSS(free and Open Source). I pay €12 a year for my email account with a company called Tutanota. I use Telegram and Signal. Bromite for browsing. No app on my phone has trackers. And everything works fine for me along side amazing battery life.
I've taken it to the extreme but people find it far to inconvenient to give up their apps thst suck up their data.

If you're not paying for a product then you are the product..

Thanks, I'll try Bomite too. I didn't know about it

Mic 1972 · 18-01-2021 8:08pm

ReginaldSmythV wrote: »

People love trotting that one out, it’s a bit like the “I know a lad that said that has a neighbour with a cousin of a lad in the army and he said....” type of guff. But what exactly is going to happen you by being the ‘product’. Are facebook or Google going to empty your bank account and steal your car?

Convenience is king. Wrapping your phone in tinfoil only seems to serve the purpose of being able to tell people you did it.

I don't blame you for having little understanding of data security and the implications that it bears because we all are on the same boat after all.
But I don't see the reason to dismiss useful information that we could all benefit from. See how little it took for Mark Zuckerberg to step back with the terms and condition demands that he was proudly pushing until a week ago?

Mic 1972 · 18-01-2021 8:09pm

XVII wrote: »

I actually think we may see people generally becoming more self-aware about the internet use in some near future, especially after events like this. Like there was a beginning of the trend "you are what you eat". There will be "you are what apps you use". A bit more of self-awareness about websites you are using, User Agreements that you are accepting, etc.

or maybe it's just wishful thinking.

I agree with this

dzsfah2xoynme9 · 18-01-2021 8:20pm

jimmycrackcorm wrote: »

What benefits are you actually getting from this extreme though?

Unbelievable battery life. Plus the knowledge that all my data isn't being harvested to make some other people very wealthy..

dzsfah2xoynme9 · 18-01-2021 8:23pm

ReginaldSmythV wrote: »

People love trotting that one out, it’s a bit like the “I know a lad that said that has a neighbour with a cousin of a lad in the army and he said....” type of guff. But what exactly is going to happen you by being the ‘product’. Are facebook or Google going to empty your bank account and steal your car?

Convenience is king. Wrapping your phone in tinfoil only seems to serve the purpose of being able to tell people you did it.

My phone is fully functional. You may be comfortable with all your data being harvested but I'm not. I'm not comfortable with Facebook having a profile on me even though I don't have or use any Facebook products. Same with amazon or Google.

CrazyFather1 · 21-01-2021 9:47am

Mic 1972 wrote: »

I migrated a good 90% of my contacts on Signal and Telegram, they are still on WhatsApp too but seem happy with the new options.
And I keep getting notifications of new contacts signing up, so it looks like something is happening

The only people interested in spinning the Signal and Telegram story is the people who have bought shares in either of them.

Plus any changes in Watsapp from what I read was never going to happen in Europe.

Everyone is going down the Musk said Signal is great line, then he admitted he has invested in it so of course he is saying it is great.

Gooey Looey · 21-01-2021 9:55am

CrazyFather1 wrote: »

The only people interested in spinning the Signal and Telegram story is the people who have bought shares in either of them.

Plus any changes in Watsapp from what I read was never going to happen in Europe.

Everyone is going down the Musk said Signal is great line, then he admitted he has invested in it so of course he is saying it is great.

You just made that up!

The signal Foundation is a non profit organisation committed to developing an open-source privacy technology that protects free expression and enables secure global communication!

21-01-2021 9:56am

Was having technical issues again yesterday apparently. Doesn't sound much use yet.

CrazyFather1 · 21-01-2021 11:20am

I don't know how to post here but very funny image doing the rounds

Watsapp "What happened?"
"No privacy here. I'm leaving"
Watspp "You back?"
"No people there. Only privacy!"

SchrodingersCat · 22-01-2021 11:54am

A report was made summarising the security of Telegram and Signal:

It concluded that Signal has a better security infrastructure than Telegram for three reasons:

1. Signal does not ask users to trust Signal, Telegram does (and this has strong implications on security).
2. Every communication in Signal is E2E encrypted, in Telegram groups cannot be. Even assuming that encryption does not make sense for public groups with thousands of members, the lack of E2E encryption for small groups seems unnecessarily problematic.
3. E2E encryption is on by default on Signal, and in fact it cannot be turned off. This is not the case for Telegram, and it is bad practice in security. The choice of the security settings should NOT be left to users: that is what experts are for.

From a security standpoint either of them is a better choice than WhatsApp, because they are open source (with some caveats in the case of Telegram, see the report).

https://cqi.inf.usi.ch/publications/telegram_vs_signal.pdf

Mic 1972 · 22-01-2021 12:06pm

Apparently Zuckerberg/Bezoz/Dorsey are trying to get Telegram removed form their apps the same as they did with Parler.
Another good reason to download these apps before they get removed

Melanchthon · 22-01-2021 1:12pm

Mic 1972 wrote: »

Apparently Zuckerberg/Bezoz/Dorsey are trying to get Telegram removed form their apps the same as they did with Parler.
Another good reason to download these apps before they get removed

I don't think that will happen to be honest. Google and Apple each have their own messenger services so removing a competitor would open them immediately to being sued. It's not the same as AWS/Amazon and Parler, Amazon doesn't have a twitter type service.

Mic 1972 · 22-01-2021 4:39pm

Melanchthon wrote: »

I don't think that will happen to be honest. Google and Apple each have their own messenger services so removing a competitor would open them immediately to being sued. It's not the same as AWS/Amazon and Parler, Amazon doesn't have a twitter type service.

The removal of Parler from Apple/Android/Amazon store was also an example of acting as a cartel, which is illegal but they got away with it.
Telegram is currently being accused of being a place for far-right extremists, that's the same exuse they used for Parler.

Basically, Twitter can remove users who are not Democrats, but such users can't use any other platform
Now they are trying the same with Telegram

Melanchthon · 22-01-2021 8:43pm

Mic 1972 wrote: »

The removal of Parler from Apple/Android/Amazon store was also an example of acting as a cartel, which is illegal but they got away with it.
Telegram is currently being accused of being a place for far-right extremists, that's the same exuse they used for Parler.

Basically, Twitter can remove users who are not Democrats, but such users can't use any other platform
Now they are trying the same with Telegram

I am saying though is AWS/Amazon don't have a product in competition with Parler so the anti-Trust/ Cartel lawsuits are likely too fail.

Google/Android and Apple arguably do have direct competitor products to Signal/Telegram so if they pull access to the apps they could loose lawsuits over it.

I am aware of the arguments about Twitter moderation and so on. Not agreeing or disagreeing but it's a different thing as Twitter aren't part of Google, Amazon or Apple.

francois · 22-01-2021 9:37pm

Mic 1972 wrote: »

Apparently Zuckerberg/Bezoz/Dorsey are trying to get Telegram removed form their apps the same as they did with Parler.
Another good reason to download these apps before they get removed

Apparently
Evidence?

Ubbquittious · 22-01-2021 9:37pm

I am noticing a steady influx of tricklers-in on Signal and Telegram

great that people are switching over !

People are leaving WhatsApp

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