Why can't we leave the clocks on summertime year round?

pedigree 6 · 26-10-2016 10:15pm #1

Right so this Saturday night the clocks go back an hour.
Why do we have to do this?
Does this happen all over the world this weekend?

I get the argument that it was to help schoolchildren get to school in the mornings. But that was when most children walked or cycled to school.
Nowadays kids are driven to school by their parents or schoolbus.

Are there any other reasons why the clocks have to go back an hour?

Can we just not leave it the way it is.
I like my bright evenings.:mad:

Fr_Dougal · 26-10-2016 10:19pm

You can, don't change them and get up an hour earlier.

biko · 26-10-2016 10:21pm

Afaik wintertime is normal time and summertime is the "special" adjustment.

RayM · 26-10-2016 10:22pm

I don't know why we can't just put them back one hour every morning and then forward again in the evenings. That would give us brighter mornings and evenings.

pedigree 6 · 26-10-2016 10:23pm

Fr_Dougal wrote: »

You can, don't change them and get up an hour earlier.

Spring forward.
Fall back.

Yea your dead right. But still.

hot buttered scones · 26-10-2016 10:23pm

biko wrote:

Afaik wintertime is normal time and summertime is the "special" adjustment.

Not in Ireland. We use IST (Irish Standard Time) in the summer.

Darkglasses · 26-10-2016 10:26pm

We can. It's a really stupid convention, I'd love if we (and the rest of the Western world) dumped it.

the groutch · 26-10-2016 11:01pm

pedigree 6 wrote: »

Spring forward.
Fall back.

Yea your dead right. But still.

Fall Forward
Spring Back

still sounds right doesn't it.

Dr Crayfish · 26-10-2016 11:05pm

Usually people go on about farmers being the reason for this. I really detest it. Dark at 5pm, it's horrible. I kind of like dark mornings however. If it is to do with farmers, can't they just adjust their working days?

Tornaxx · 26-10-2016 11:15pm

pedigree 6 wrote: »

Spring forward.
Fall back.

Spring forward.
Autumn back.

(Because I'm not American.)

Spanish Eyes · 26-10-2016 11:21pm

Was away last week, and it got bright around 8am, dark at around the same time. Wonderful!

I think the mornings are too bright far too early here, and the evenings far too dark very early aswell.

Anyway, nothing we can do, it's not going to change.

A little more brightness in the evenings might help everyone especially those prone to Winter depression or SAD.

Still, the Winter is very short compared to Summer time. As soon as mid January is out of the way, it gets brighter by about 3 or 4 minutes every day, and you can see it!

goose2005 · 26-10-2016 11:23pm

Dr Crayfish wrote: »

Usually people go on about farmers being the reason for this. I really detest it. Dark at 5pm, it's horrible. I kind of like dark mornings however. If it is to do with farmers, can't they just adjust their working days?

It never had anything to do with farmers, sure they have to work by natural light. The original purpose was to reduce fuel use in the evening

md23040 · 26-10-2016 11:24pm

What annoys me most is that the clock goes back an hour 7 and a half weeks before the winter solstice or just before Christmas. So therefore logically the clocks should go forward 7.5 weeks after the winter solstice around the 17th of February.

But for some godforsaken reason it's left for another 5 weeks until the bloody last Sunday of March.

Going forward earlier would save a lot of home heating fuel bills.

Spanish Eyes · 26-10-2016 11:27pm

Darker mornings and brighter evenings is what is needed.

Who do I petition for this please?

meeeeh · 26-10-2016 11:32pm

I can't wait. I much prefer waking up into brighter mornings. Otherwise you feel like you missed on about an hour of sleep.

Quackster · 26-10-2016 11:43pm

md23040 wrote: »

What annoys me most is that the clock goes back an hour 7 and a half weeks before the winter solstice or just before Christmas. So therefore logically the clocks should go forward 7.5 weeks after the winter solstice around the 17th of February.

But for some godforsaken reason it's left for another 5 weeks until the bloody last Sunday of March.

Going forward earlier would save a lot of home heating fuel bills.

Firstly, the day of latest sunrise is not actually December solstice but occurs about ten days later. Secondly, the rate by which sunrise gets earlier in the first few months of the year is less than the rate sunrise gets later in the last few months of the year.

The reason for this apparent asymmetry is because the length of a day varies throughout the year but we use a fixed average of 24 hours to keep time.

The good news is the evenings start getting longer from about the 12th December!

4068ac1elhodqr · 26-10-2016 11:50pm

Can't someone just lob a (convex not concave) 'big mirror' up in the high atmosphere (non-geostationary).

Just to give NW Euro a bit more sunshine in the winter evenings, and therefore save us all getting the clocks off the wall. Not to mention alleviating the vitamin D deficiencies.

Additionally spraying some of the moon in a nano layer of silver or reflective particles might help.

Vic_08 · 26-10-2016 11:52pm

hot buttered scones wrote: »

Not in Ireland. We use IST (Irish Standard Time) in the summer.

IST is daylight savings time, Winter is GMT.

If we were to dispense with DST it would be GMT all year round.

Commotion Ocean · 26-10-2016 11:59pm

8:58! First time I've ever been early for work! Except for all those daylight savings days, lousy farmers!

Losty Dublin · 27-10-2016 12:06am

goose2005 wrote: »

It never had anything to do with farmers, sure they have to work by natural light. The original purpose was to reduce fuel use in the evening

If clocks were left forward the year round then farmers and other outdoor workers lose an hour in the morning, not to mention commuters. In some more northern areas sunrise wouldn't occur until close to 10AM at the most extreme.

MEGA BRO WOLF 5000 · 27-10-2016 12:06am

Because farmers.

pickarooney · 27-10-2016 12:13am

We should just work shorter days in Winter.

Nervous Wreck · 27-10-2016 12:18am

pickarooney wrote: »

We should just work shorter days

Fyp.

rizzodun · 27-10-2016 12:18am

goose2005 wrote: »

It never had anything to do with farmers, sure they have to work by natural light. The original purpose was to reduce fuel use in the evening

How would making the evenings dark one hour earlier reduce fuel use?

pedigree 6 · 27-10-2016 12:19am

I'm a farmer and I want the time to stay as it is now and don't put it back an hour on Saturday.

Mods would it be possible to have a poll on this?

hot buttered scones · 27-10-2016 12:26am

Vic_08 wrote:

IST is daylight savings time, Winter is GMT.

Vic_08 wrote:

If we were to dispense with DST it would be GMT all year round.

Officially speaking the Standard Time Act of 1968 states that time in the State shall be one hour in advance of GMT throughout the year. The 1971 amendment to the Act requires that GMT be followed during the winter. It all amounts to the same thing, but legally we are one hour behind standard time in the winter whereas the UK is one hour ahead of it's standard time in the summer. The same, but different. If we and the UK were to use only our legal standard times all year round we would be one hour ahead of them.

nomdeboardie · 27-10-2016 12:31am

Tornaxx wrote: »

Spring forward.
Autumn back.

(Because I'm not American.)

Spring forward.
Fall back.

for me, 'cos...I'be a bleddy American to avoid making a memenomeneomic for the alternative :rolleyes:

Harvey Normal · 27-10-2016 12:39am

md23040 wrote: »

What annoys me most is that the clock goes back an hour 7 and a half weeks before the winter solstice or just before Christmas. So therefore logically the clocks should go forward 7.5 weeks after the winter solstice around the 17th of February.

But for some godforsaken reason it's left for another 5 weeks until the bloody last Sunday of March.

Going forward earlier would save a lot of home heating fuel bills.

That bugs me too. At least do it end February.

Harvey Normal · 27-10-2016 12:43am

rizzodun wrote: »

How would making the evenings dark one hour earlier reduce fuel use?

Winter time/GMT is the normal time*. IST was the addition which is what the poster you are responding to means.

*except of course real normal time would be GMT+30 mins in Dublin. More elsewhere.

Harvey Normal · 27-10-2016 12:44am

hot buttered scones wrote: »

Officially speaking the Standard Time Act of 1968 states that time in the State shall be one hour in advance of GMT throughout the year. The 1971 amendment to the Act requires that GMT be followed during the winter. It all amounts to the same thing, but legally we are one hour behind standard time in the winter whereas the UK is one hour ahead of it's standard time in the summer. The same, but different. If we and the UK were to use only our legal standard times all year round we would be one hour ahead of them.

Wow. Didn't know that.

BabyE · 27-10-2016 12:56am

Is there a more depressing place in the world than NW Europe for the next 4 months? Its **** everywhere, London, Paris, Dublin, Amsterdam, Brussels, you name it.

KERSPLAT! · 27-10-2016 1:11am

BabyE wrote: »

Is there a more depressing place in the world than NW Europe for the next 4 months? Its **** everywhere, London, Paris, Dublin, Amsterdam, Brussels, you name it.

Syria?

darkpagandeath · 27-10-2016 1:12am

Farmers with no lights would get lost.

Esel · 27-10-2016 2:10am

Losty Dublin wrote: »

If clocks were left forward the year round then farmers and other outdoor workers lose an hour in the morning, not to mention commuters. In some more northern areas sunrise wouldn't occur until close to 10AM at the most extreme.

??? Same amount of daylight, no matter what 'time' it is...

Esel · 27-10-2016 2:38am

Ah, you mean an hour of daylight, I'm thinking? Still the same amount of daylight though.

Also, the reason that the switch happens over a bank holiday weekend is because (especially in Spring when the clock goes forward and so we lose an hour of sleep) the lost sleep can push a person suffering from sleep deprivation over the edge and make them more likely to have an accident (especially when driving). Same, but less so, in Autumn - sleep/wake cycle is disturbed; accidents can happen. People can get cranky...

Third_Echelon · 27-10-2016 2:41am

pedigree 6 wrote: »

Right so this Saturday night the clocks go back an hour.
Why do we have to do this?
Does this happen all over the world this weekend?

I get the argument that it was to help schoolchildren get to school in the mornings. But that was when most children walked or cycled to school.
Nowadays kids are driven to school by their parents or schoolbus.

Are there any other reasons why the clocks have to go back an hour?

Can we just not leave it the way it is.
I like my bright evenings.:mad:

The US changes 2 weeks later than Ireland, so instead of 5 hour time difference to the east coast, it's 4 hours for those 2 weeks.

Esel · 27-10-2016 2:43am

BabyE wrote: »

Is there a more depressing place in the world than NW Europe for the next 4 months? Its **** everywhere, London, Paris, Dublin, Amsterdam, Brussels, you name it.

High up (or anywhere) in the Arctic Circle? Cabin fever.

getzls · 27-10-2016 2:48am

Put the clocks to Dublin railway times.
That will confuse everyone.

LordSutch · 27-10-2016 6:11am

hot buttered scones wrote: »

Officially speaking the Standard Time Act of 1968 states that time in the State shall be one hour in advance of GMT throughout the year. The 1971 amendment to the Act requires that GMT be followed during the winter. It all amounts to the same thing, but legally we are one hour behind standard time in the winter whereas the UK is one hour ahead of it's standard time in the summer. The same, but different. If we and the UK were to use only our legal standard times all year round we would be one hour ahead of them.

I never realised the ROI was on a different time zone to the UK until now. So technically we already have two time zones on this island, soon to be followed with two trading zones, one inside the EU and the other part 'up North' outside the EU. Add this to the governments insistence that we are no longer part of the British isles (announced about twelve years ago) and it all adds up to an ever widening (geo-eco-political-time-gulf) opening up between Ireland & the UK.

...not withstanding the fact that many Radio controlled clocks here in Ireland (probably some in Leinster house) are governed by the GMT/BST time signal from Anthorne/Cumbria, which means that in reality we still run on UK time. So maybe we're not that far apart after all

)

Peregrinus · 27-10-2016 6:27am

LordSutch wrote: »

I never realised the ROI was on a different time zone to the UK until now . . .

We're not in a different time zone. We're in the same time zone; we just use different terminology to describe it. But that's common.

For international and comparative purposes, timezones are defined by their offset from Universal Co-ordinated Time ("UTC"). The UK and the Republic (and Portugal, apart from the Azores) are on UTC+0 in the winter, and UTC+1 in the summer. Each of the three countries used different terminology locally to refer to standard time, but they're all in the same time zone.

Ireland is unusual in naming summer time as the "standard" and winter time as the "exception"; this is a historical accident, basically. Ireland adopted standard time in 1880, mainly to suit the railway companies. Standard time for Ireland, known as "Dublin Mean Time" was based on mean time at Dunsink Observatory, and was about 25 minutes behind Greenwich Mean Time, which was adopted as the standard for Britain. (There were no railways running between Britain and Ireland, for obvious reasons, so nobody saw any need to adopt the same standard time for both.)

In 1916, Greenwich Mean Time was adopted as the standard time for Ireland, this time mainly to suit the telegraph business. In 1925, after a couple of experiments, summer time (GMT + 1) was introduced.

In 1968 both Britain and Ireland decided to switch to GMT+1 year-round, in anticipation of membership of the EEC. (This would put them on the same time as the existing EU member states, which in those days did not observe summer time.) In Ireland we did this, logically enough, with an Act of the Oireachtas declaring GMT+1 to be standard time for Ireland. However the experiment wasn't judged to be a success, and in 1971 we reverted to GMT in the winter, GMT+1 in the summer. Since there was already legislation in place declaring GMT+1 to be Irish Standard Time, this was done by amending the legislation to provide for GMT to be observed during winter.

LordSutch · 27-10-2016 6:36am

Thanks for that, although my 'Time Zone' post was somewhat tongue in cheek.

El_Duderino 09 · 27-10-2016 7:08am

goose2005 wrote:

It never had anything to do with farmers, sure they have to work by natural light. The original purpose was to reduce fuel use in the evening

That's fine if people go to bed an hour earlier because it's dark an hour earlier. Now it is a pointless convention because the sun is wasted at 6am while most people are still in bed and most people are awake at 5pm when it will be getting dark.

It one of the most pointless traditions we observe. We do it for no reason other than the fact that we have always done it (in our lives at least)

Peregrinus · 27-10-2016 7:11am

No, it gets dark an hour later in the summer as a result of observing summer time. We all get up an hour earlier than we otherwise would, and as a result we go to bed an hour earlier, reducing the amount of fuel we consume to light our evenings.

andekwarhola · 27-10-2016 7:14am

It's causes me minor annoyance so even though I don't fully understand the rationale and its application to others, it must change.

El_Duderino 09 · 27-10-2016 7:31am

Losty Dublin wrote:

If clocks were left forward the year round then farmers and other outdoor workers lose an hour in the morning, not to mention commuters. In some more northern areas sunrise wouldn't occur until close to 10AM at the most extreme.

Farmers/construction workers can use electric lights in the morning the same way they use electric lights in the evening. They now need to be working at 6am to actually use the light and finish early. That makes no sense over leaving the clocks alone.

Esel wrote:

??? Same amount of daylight, no matter what 'time' it is...

Well yes but changing the clocks puts more light in the morning when lots of people are in bed, and less light in the evening when more people are out and about. Why not try to tailor it to have most light when people are at least awake?

Peregrinus wrote:

No, it gets dark an hour later in the summer as a result of observing summer time. We all get up an hour earlier than we otherwise would, and as a result we go to bed an hour earlier, reducing the amount of fuel we consume to light our evenings.

I don't think I get this point. If I work 9-5 and I go to bed at 11 in summer time, then I'll still keep the same hours in winter time. When the clock goes back I'll still go to bed at 11 but it will be dark and cold earlier meaning I'll use more light and heating for longer in the evening.

And in winter we get up later and go to bed later, while shifting the light hours back meaning we sleep through some of the light in the morning and are awake in darkness in the evening.

Light is precious in winter and we put some of it out of the normal wake cycle. Crazy stuff

secman · 27-10-2016 7:47am

At the lowest point in winter we get close your just 8 hours of light, which is approximately 8 am to 4 pm. But in parts of Scotland it is 9 am to 5pm. If UK didn't make the change those parts of Scotland would not see daylight until spprox 10 am.

So if UK decided to leave it as it is, Scotland would have another referendum to leave the UK:)

El_Duderino 09 · 27-10-2016 7:57am

secman wrote:

At the lowest point in winter we get close your just 8 hours of light, which is approximately 8 am to 4 pm. But in parts of Scotland it is 9 am to 5pm. If UK didn't make the change those parts of Scotland would not see daylight until spprox 10 am.

As it stands it gets dark by 4 in December. So were well used to working in the dark. So what if it doesn't get bright til 10? Being bright at 6am is completely pointless and means most people will miss some if the brightness while most people will catch the extra darkness in the evening.

cbyrd · 27-10-2016 8:30am

I can't wait for the clocks to go back, I feel like my sleep rhythm returns to normal. It's easier to get up in the mornings and easier to get the kids to bed early.
Better all round

somesoldiers · 27-10-2016 8:52am

I was trying to organise two separate calls with some colleagues in Sydney & San Francisco during the week and my head almost exploded trying to work out a suitable time that wouldn't mean me coming in a stupid o'clock or them having to stay too late

Oz clocks go forward in Oct back in April
SF are 8 hours behind now but 7 behind GMT which all changes next week when our clocks go back or does it.....I give up

and Muricans seem completely oblivious to any of this going on at all which doesn't help

Quackster · 27-10-2016 11:24am

Whatever about skipping winter time entirely, for economic reasons it certainly would make sense for the EU to align when the clocks go forward/back with North America.

Clocks there don't go back until the 6th November and they go forward again on the 12th March next year so they have three weeks less of winter time.

silverharp · 27-10-2016 11:30am

out of curiosity what happens in night clubs these days, I have this fr Ted picture in my head where at 2am the bar staff put the clocks back one hour, and someone shouts out "more drink!" to loud applause

Why can't we leave the clocks on summertime year round?

Should we leave the clocks on summertime? 214 votes

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