Ireland Team Talk XI: Team of nervoUS MOD warning Post 1

arsebiscuits1 · 03-02-2020 1:53pm

kilns wrote: »

Exactly, he is a very effective carrier for Leinster, so he has it in his game also

VDF employs the very effective carry of stepping inside the tackler at first receiver. It's been a real trait of Hugh Hogan as contact skills coach. Will Connors, Ross Molony and James Tracy are also very adept at it too.

It's a great way of forcing the tackler to go lower and get over the gainline and benefit of quick ball.

Not sure how effective the tactic translates to international though. You rarely see the first receivers actively step inside their tackler unless they've been forced back inside

Shefwedfan · 03-02-2020 2:07pm

Deleted User wrote: »

It wasn't reported. A friend who was at the game and a work colleague both separately said they heard booing, they were certain and have zero reason to lie about it.

It wouldn't have gone unreported if it was widespread, but one of the above two said when it happened he was certain it would be the talking point after that game.

Not stirring anything here, am legitimately surprised it happened.

I talked to 3 people who attended the game, they heard nothing. Two was at one end and the other at the other end. They where in groups and none of them heard booing......

As mentioned above, I remember everyone complaining about Leinster fans booing, normally on sky.....they didnt understand the LLLUUUUUKKKKKEEE chat

Eod100 · 03-02-2020 2:19pm

With team being named on Tuesday instead of Thursday is it likely that any players with niggles wont be names as given less time to recover? Know 48 hours might not make a huge difference but still

Squidgy Black · 03-02-2020 2:26pm

Eod100 wrote: »

With team being named on Tuesday instead of Thursday is it likely that any players with niggles wont be names as given less time to recover? Know 48 hours might not make a huge difference but still

Joe used to select his teams on Tuesdays and tell the players but only release them to the media on Thursdays. Or so the story goes.

The Rape of Lucretia · 03-02-2020 2:28pm

Rockbeast2 wrote: »

No booing where I was sitting.

I remember at Leinster games in past a couple of friends I'd bring to their first game would afterwards mention they were puzzled by "booing" they had heard. It was LUUUUUUKE!

Was there and didn't hear anything.
If there was, if was probably just Muuuuuurrrrrrrrrrr!

Richie_Rich89 · 03-02-2020 3:06pm

I'm not surprised the scrum struggled. Fogarty is a massive downgrade on Greg Feek as scrum coach.

prawnsambo · 03-02-2020 3:17pm

Richie_Rich89 wrote: »

I'm not surprised the scrum struggled. Fogarty is a massive downgrade on Greg Feek as scrum coach.

Leinster scrum never had problems with Fogarty in charge.

Dubinusa · 03-02-2020 3:37pm

I hope Addison or Farrell get a run this week. It's a pity Ringrose got injured, the centers were really coming into the game and finding space.
Healy needs to perform! The scrum must improve or we'll struggle this week.
Kilcoyne is unlucky, I expect he will miss out this week. Jack McGrath will come in. I guess many expected a cakewalk on Saturday and were shocked that Scotland put it to us. I wasn't surprised as we were shockingly poor in recent time. That said, this week is an opportunity to bed some new plays and maybe a couple of different players.
I'd go with:
1. Healy
2. Herring
3. Porter. See what he can do!
4. Hendo
5. Ryan.
6 Stander.
7. VDF.
8. Deegan.
9. Cooney.
10. Sexton
11. Stockdale
12. Aki.
13. Addison/ Farrell.
14. Conway.
15. Larmour.

16. Kelleher
17. Jack.
18. Furlong
19. Dillane.
20. POM/ JOD
21. Luke. Why not?
22. RB
23. Henshaw.

I reckon if JOD were to start he would beat 6 with Standet at 8. This could be a decent back row. If Deegan starts, it must be at 8. He's not a 6.
We all know what Murray does! Why not bring in a younger faster sub? Luke can really up the pace and is capable of creating line breaks off the base of rucks.
I hope to see Conway and Stockdale given more plays. Using both of them as strike runners could open gaps and get us forward momentum.
Like Murray , we all know Toner and what he does. He's earned his recall, but I would mix it up by using Dillane.
Dillane can be explosive and he is becoming a line out threat.
It will be a tough outing but we can win. The 6nations is wide open now! Anyone could win, but I reckon Wales would be the favourites.

lawrencesummers · 03-02-2020 3:53pm

Richie_Rich89 wrote: »

I'm not surprised the scrum struggled. Fogarty is a massive downgrade on Greg Feek as scrum coach.

The Scottish scrum caught them by surprise as well, they have typically just gotten the Ball out as fast as possible but they seemed to target Ireland on saturday.

I think Cian Healy has really dipped in form, he went off the boil before but came back very strongly but I think it’s dipping again. His carries are nowhere near as good as killers have been Lately but he was typically a better scrummager. He was spent the last day after 50 minutes and when he had to come back on it was way to much. Be interesting to see If he keeps his place for the entire competition.

Good chance that killer won’t make next week also so presumably the Ulster lad will bench.

AdamD · 03-02-2020 4:22pm

Healy has been great for Leinster this season, 1 poor game doesnt mean he's dipped in form.

Paul Smeenus · 03-02-2020 4:22pm

O'Toole's a TH - it'll be McGrath.

Utah_Saint · 03-02-2020 4:25pm

Is Killer injured?

Who is 4th choice LH?

03-02-2020 4:39pm

Utah_Saint wrote: »

Is Killer injured?

Who is 4th choice LH?

Right after coming on he got knocked out and had to go straight off. He shouldn't play this weekend for his own health.

Utah_Saint · 03-02-2020 4:49pm

Malakai Some Revolution wrote: »

Right after coming on he got knocked out and had to go straight off. He shouldn't play this weekend for his own health.

cheers - i totally missed that in the game...the joys of trying to watching the game and mind the kids...

lawrencesummers · 03-02-2020 5:06pm

AdamD wrote: »

Healy has been great for Leinster this season, 1 poor game doesnt mean he's dipped in form.

His game has dropped off a noticeable amount from last years 6 nations.

sydthebeat · 03-02-2020 5:15pm

lawrencesummers wrote: »

His game has dropped off a noticeable amount from last years 6 nations.

apart from all the leinster games in which he has been exceptional since then

Richie_Rich89 · 03-02-2020 5:16pm

prawnsambo wrote: »

Leinster scrum never had problems with Fogarty in charge.

Maybe watch the away Bath match from '15/'16 again.

There seems to be a lack of cohesion and control in what a Fogarty-coached scrum does.

03-02-2020 5:20pm

Richie_Rich89 wrote: »

Maybe watch the away Bath match from '15/'16 again.

There seems to be a lack of cohesion and control in what a Fogarty-coached scrum does.

A match from 4 or 5 years ago?

lawrencesummers · 03-02-2020 5:22pm

sydthebeat wrote: »

apart from all the leinster games in which he has been exceptional since then

That’s a massive overstatement, he is not as effective the player he was the season before, but it’s hardly a surprise that you got that wrong as you had Ireland beating Scotland off the pitch the last day when that was never going to happen.

Zzippy · 03-02-2020 5:27pm

lawrencesummers wrote: »

That’s a massive overstatement, he is not as effective the player he was the season before, but it’s hardly a surprise that you got that wrong as you had Ireland beating Scotland off the pitch the last day when that was never going to happen.

Mod: User taking a break from the forum for persistent infringements. Let this be a warning to everyone else. Zero tolerance policy is in force.
No need to respond to the post above.

Richie_Rich89 · 03-02-2020 5:28pm

A lot of players have big question marks over them. Healy looks a shadow of his former self. He's not having any impact in high level games.

For all the hype - best player in Ireland, etc. - van der Flier is unremarkable, generally speaking, at this level.

Conway to me is a provincial level player playing above himself. He's good in a defensive sense at defusing opposition cross-kicks, and excellent at contesting for box-kicks, but that's a diminishing return with teams allowed to use blockers.

I'm not convinced by Larmour at all at fullback. He should be considered for selection on the left wing imo. He's not good enough defensively for 14. Probably stick him at 23 for impact. Fullback's a bit of a problem position with the other option, Addison, being quite loose and prone to turning the ball over.

It's a pity Tom Farrell isn't in the squad to come in for Ringrose.

Richie_Rich89 · 03-02-2020 5:30pm

Malakai Some Revolution wrote: »

A match from 4 or 5 years ago?

That's when he was Leinster scrum coach without Lancaster to help him.

Clegg · 03-02-2020 5:32pm

Larmour's performance was one of the big positives. It's clear he has a lot of work to do with his decision making. He ran almost everything and at times it was to the teams detriment. He needed to kick more than he did. Some of that must be down to team orders. He kicks a lot more with Leinster.

But it's obvious that the Scots were extremely cagey around kicking to him for fear of his counter attacking threat. And when he actually did get the ball he ran well with it.

daddy pig · 03-02-2020 5:41pm

Richie_Rich89 wrote: »

For all the hype - best player in Ireland, etc. - van der Flier is unremarkable, generally speaking, at this level.

Clearly you have forgotten about his virtuoso display against Scotland in February 2017.

Podge_irl · 03-02-2020 5:46pm

Richie_Rich89 wrote: »

That's when he was Leinster scrum coach without Lancaster to help him.

Is there anything Lancaster doesn't do at Leinster in your view?

salmocab · 03-02-2020 5:47pm

Podge_irl wrote: »

Is there anything Lancaster doesn't do at Leinster in your view?

PR

Eod100 · 03-02-2020 6:03pm

With Wales in good form, and having to go away to England and France could be a tough old tournament. Think 3 home wins and 1 away win would be very good under the circumstances but Wales could be tough to break down. Guess post RWC things see always bit on flux

jacothelad · 03-02-2020 6:04pm

Podge_irl wrote: »

Is there anything Lancaster doesn't do at Leinster in your view?

There are strong rumours surging around Ravenhill that Leinster are trying to tempt Ethel southwards as apparently Lancaster can't make a decent cuppa and insists on making the tea with Tetley's which, as everyone knows, is shyte. Ethel wouldn't be seen dead with that rubbish.

stephen_n · 03-02-2020 6:07pm

jacothelad wrote: »

There are strong rumours surging around Ravenhill that Leinster are trying to tempt Ethel southwards as apparently Lancaster can't make a decent cuppa and insists on making the tea with Tetley's which, as everyone knows, is shyte. Ethel wouldn't be seen dead with that rubbish.

Not sure she’d be comfortable in the chaos anyway.

prawnsambo · 03-02-2020 7:36pm

Richie_Rich89 wrote: »

Maybe watch the away Bath match from '15/'16 again.

There seems to be a lack of cohesion and control in what a Fogarty-coached scrum does.

So one match 4 years ago and Fogarty is no good? Yet somehow has managed to fool everybody including Andy Farrell. I think I'll stick with the people who are paid to know what a good scrum coach should look like thanks.

Thisonedone · 03-02-2020 7:48pm

DOC thinks Rory Bests absence from the scrum is the reason why it has gone to pot

joseywhales · 03-02-2020 7:48pm

AbusesToilets wrote: »

Interesting how a team like France can bring in new coaches, a rake of new players, in a short time frame, and manage to revitalise their style of play to produce success.

I think it's constantly underestimated how much talent is in France, they should be able to field two international teams at Ireland's level. They are the most underperforming team I've ever seen for the last 9 years.

The fact that they get it right occasionally is not as surprising as how bad they often are.

Hands Like Flippers · 03-02-2020 7:54pm

Clegg wrote: »

Larmour's performance was one of the big positives. It's clear he has a lot of work to do with his decision making. He ran almost everything and at times it was to the teams detriment. He needed to kick more than he did. Some of that must be down to team orders. He kicks a lot more with Leinster.

But it's obvious that the Scots were extremely cagey around kicking to him for fear of his counter attacking threat. And when he actually did get the ball he ran well with it.

Mmm. Looked like Kearney Mark 2 to me. Never even looked like passing once. Could have tried something else once or twice even, eg, Stockdale.

03-02-2020 8:18pm

https://www.the42.ie/henshaw-omahony-ireland-wales-4991037-Feb2020/

Give me strength.

Clegg · 03-02-2020 8:37pm

Hands Like Flippers wrote: »

Mmm. Looked like Kearney Mark 2 to me. Never even looked like passing once. Could have tried something else once or twice even, eg, Stockdale.

Never looked to pass except for the times he did.

yerrahbah · 03-02-2020 8:39pm

Malakai Some Revolution wrote: »

https://www.the42.ie/henshaw-omahony-ireland-wales-4991037-Feb2020/

Give me strength.

Henshaw isn't that bad

prawnsambo · 03-02-2020 8:47pm

yerrahbah wrote: »

Henshaw isn't that bad

He's not new and shiny though.

Shefwedfan · 03-02-2020 8:49pm

Malakai Some Revolution wrote: »

https://www.the42.ie/henshaw-omahony-ireland-wales-4991037-Feb2020/

Give me strength.

If Farrell does start POM then I think he will start to lose huge sections of the fans after 2 games, win/lose/draw

The back row of Stander, VDF, POM does not work and hasn’t in a long time. I don’t think I could stick another game watching it

Bazzo · 03-02-2020 8:49pm

With Ringrose injured Aki Henshaw is the best centre combination.

Shefwedfan · 03-02-2020 8:50pm

Hands Like Flippers wrote: »

Mmm. Looked like Kearney Mark 2 to me. Never even looked like passing once. Could have tried something else once or twice even, eg, Stockdale.

Kearney is one of the most successful players ever in Irish rugby, I’m sure Larmour would love to retire with his medals and accolades

Shefwedfan · 03-02-2020 8:51pm

Bazzo wrote: »

With Ringrose is injured then Aki Henshaw is the best centre combination.

Farrell and Aki/Henshaw would be better. Shoving a 12 into 13 doesn’t make sense. Especially in this fixture during the Grand Slam Farrell was MoM

sydthebeat · 03-02-2020 9:33pm

Hands Like Flippers wrote: »

Never even looked like passing once. .

you mean apart from the SEVEN times he passed ??

prawnsambo · 03-02-2020 9:35pm

sydthebeat wrote: »

you mean apart from the SEVEN times he passed ??

Yeah, but he never looked like passing.

Faugheen · 03-02-2020 9:35pm

Hands Like Flippers wrote: »

Mmm. Looked like Kearney Mark 2 to me. Never even looked like passing once. Could have tried something else once or twice even, eg, Stockdale.

Larmour passed the ball just under 1 out of every four times he touched it.

Name one time a ball being passed would have put us in a better position than the one Larmour put us in.

You don’t pass the ball for the sake of passing it. It’s the ultimate strawman argument.

Larmour ran for more meters than any other full back this weekend. And he ran treble the amount of both England and Frances full-backs combined.

If he wasn’t making meters there would be an argument to be had, but it just makes no sense to me that people think not passing for the sake of it is a bad thing. And the comparisons to Kearney? The vendetta some people here have against our most decorated player of all time is absolutely baffling.

The Rape of Lucretia · 03-02-2020 9:38pm

sydthebeat wrote: »

you mean apart from the SEVEN times he passed ??

He disguised them skillfully, making the passes even more effective. They were so good, some didnt notice that he made them at all.

Granny15 · 03-02-2020 10:06pm

Faugheen wrote: »

Larmour passed the ball just under 1 out of every four times he touched it.

Name one time a ball being passed would have put us in a better position than the one Larmour put us in.

You don’t pass the ball for the sake of passing it. It’s the ultimate strawman argument.

Larmour ran for more meters than any other full back this weekend. And he ran treble the amount of both England and Frances full-backs combined.

If he wasn’t making meters there would be an argument to be had, but it just makes no sense to me that people think not passing for the sake of it is a bad thing. And the comparisons to Kearney? The vendetta some people here have against our most decorated player of all time is absolutely baffling.

Source and calculations please!

Edit both the English and French fullbacks had mares so it’s not saying much

Faugheen · 03-02-2020 10:14pm

Granny15 wrote: »

Source and calculations please!

Sure thing friend.

Meters made:

Larmour: 138
Halfpenny: 107
Minozzi: 85
Hogg: 42
Bouthier: 19
Furbank: 19

Source: https://www.espn.com/rugby/scoreboard?date=20200201

prawnsambo · 03-02-2020 10:26pm

Faugheen wrote: »

Sure thing friend.

Meters made:

Larmour: 138
Halfpenny: 107
Minozzi: 85
Hogg: 42
Bouthier: 19
Furbank: 19

Source: https://www.espn.com/rugby/scoreboard?date=20200201

The six nations website has even better stats than ESPN. Just in case you're interested.

aloooof · 03-02-2020 10:57pm

prawnsambo wrote: »

The six nations website has even better stats than ESPN. Just in case you're interested.

They seem to be wildly different between both sources, to the point I'm not sure which to believe. For example:

Stander metres made:
ESPN: 27m (off 14 carries).
6N: 73m (off 17 carries).

VdF tackles:
ESPN: 15 (5 missed)
6N: 15 (2 missed)

Larmour passes:
ESPN: 7
6N: 3

aloooof · 03-02-2020 11:28pm

Thisonedone wrote: »

According to the 6 nations stats, Henderson didn’t win any line outs and had 1 stolen lineout, so they look bollox unless I’m reading it wrong

I think the "Lineouts stolen" stat means how many that player turned over on the oppositions put-in. Henderson is down for 1, but my recollection is him affecting 2 turnovers; guess it depends how cleanly they were won.

Ireland Team Talk XI: Team of nervoUS MOD warning Post 1

Comments