The Strike is over. What happens now?

Never wrestle with pigs · 25-09-2019 2:23am

Good loser wrote: »

The most stupid action by the strikers must surely have been the stopping of the fridges leaving the plants.
The very best position to be in when the strike finished (for everybody) would surely have been to have all the coldrooms empty of product.

Wrong, that's what happened with the first protest and it was death of a thousand paper cuts. Second time around a few days later and lock all the fridges into the factory and they are on their knees in a few days. If I was to go again I wouldn't bother stopping cattle agin just fridges. Factory would be blocked up with beef and nowhere to go with it after a day or so.

wrangler · 25-09-2019 7:36am

Dunedin wrote: »

I’d say more to do with the poor conditions they had. When the workers were temporarily laid off, they saw it as a blessing and stayed out.

They'll get lots of applicants, it's a way of getting into the country. return to full production will be delayed which is a bigger problem for farmers than factories

wrangler · 25-09-2019 7:46am

kk.man wrote: »

I know one of Larry's plants has dropped all agents. If you want cattle booked in you go through the production managers. They have skimmed the hauliers too.
This upped the ire of a group who were pro factory and wouldn't normally support the protesters.
I heard this plant was going to be a prototype for the rest.

They did that before too, but it didn't go on for long.
They're being bombarded with cattle at the moment,
production manager will handle the pleading better/
There's an agent near here that controls a lot of cattle,
he won't be left out too long

Keep Sluicing · 25-09-2019 7:57am

wrangler wrote: »

They did that before too, but it didn't go on for long.
They're being bombarded with cattle at the moment,
production manager will handle the pleading better/
There's an agent near here that controls a lot of cattle,
he won't be left out too long

They don't seem to be bombarded with cattle in the 2 factorys i normally deal with in Co. Cork. It all seems very realaxed. A "shur, we can send them in next week or the week after, what ever ya want yerself" attitude

Bass Reeves · 25-09-2019 8:05am

Keep Sluicing wrote: »

They don't seem to be bombarded with cattle in the 2 factorys i normally deal with in Co. Cork. It all seems very realaxed. A "shur, we can send them in next week or the week after, what ever ya want yerself" attitude

If you have goodish land and are not overstocked there is now no rush with cattle unless going over age. Any cattle gone overage can throw on weight. Lads whinging about losing the QA are not factoring in the extra weight, Animals on a few nuts are putting on a kg/day LW or 0.6-0.7kgs of DW/day or over 2 euro/day. That is 15 euro/week.

Robson99 · 25-09-2019 8:32am

Bass Reeves wrote: »

If you have goodish land and are not overstocked there is now no rush with cattle unless going over age. Any cattle gone overage can throw on weight. Lads whinging about losing the QA are not factoring in the extra weight, Animals on a few nuts are putting on a kg/day LW or 0.6-0.7kgs of DW/day or over 2 euro/day. That is 15 euro/week.

I agree Bass.
Only problem here in the West is ground conditions and grass quality have deteriorated rapidly over the last few days. Have plenty of grass but poor quality and 650kg cattle on it not helping matters
Think I will house them and push them on inside for 6 or 8 weeks

Bass Reeves · 25-09-2019 8:49am

Robson99 wrote: »

I agree Bass.
Only problem here in the West is ground conditions and grass quality have deteriorated rapidly over the last few days. Have plenty of grass but poor quality and 650kg cattle on it not helping matters
Think I will house them and push them on inside for 6 or 8 weeks

I am not sure if that will pay you unless they are not FS2+/3. If there FS is ok I be moving them on. Hosing and feeding will drive costs to 3 euro/day

Dunedin · 25-09-2019 9:29am

wrangler wrote: »

They'll get lots of applicants, it's a way of getting into the country. return to full production will be delayed which is a bigger problem for farmers than factories

Getting applicants is different than retaining what you have which should be the test of a good employer.

Why would they need to rely on workers from overseas that are not from the EU?????

Bass Reeves · 25-09-2019 9:38am

Dunedin wrote: »

Getting applicants is different than retaining what you have which should be the test of a good employer.

Why would they need to rely on workers from overseas that are not from the EU?????

Its pays the minimum or virtually minimum wage on the production lines. Boning is a skilled trade whatever about other actions along the line. Part of this is the retailers. Towards the end of the Celtic Tiger the big retailers in the UK wanted the processors to move all activity north of the border as minimun wage was lower there.

Not all lads are from outside the EU a lot are from Eastern Europe. Those from outside the EU would have there permits held by the processors I assume. Its the EU nations working in the factories that have got work elsewhere I assume

Water John · 25-09-2019 9:39am

Workers are from Brazil and East Timor. Tied by work visa to the employer, stays in accommodation owned/sourced by the employer and a lot of their wages pulled back that way. Just above indentured slavery.

wrangler · 25-09-2019 9:51am

Keep Sluicing wrote: »

They don't seem to be bombarded with cattle in the 2 factorys i normally deal with in Co. Cork. It all seems very realaxed. A "shur, we can send them in next week or the week after, what ever ya want yerself" attitude

There you are now, cattle running out because of the high kills all year as I said it would.

coolshannagh28 · 25-09-2019 9:57am

Water John wrote: »

Workers are from Brazil and East Timor. Tied by work visa to the employer, stays in accommodation owned/sourced by the employer and a lot of their wages pulled back that way. Just above indentured slavery.

There s a lot of it about.

Water John · 25-09-2019 10:02am

I think the vast majority of those work visas are in the meat industry. Minimum wage and zero hours contracts are another layer, just above that, mostly in retail and service industries.

yosemitesam1 · 25-09-2019 10:06am

Water John wrote: »

Workers are from Brazil and East Timor. Tied by work visa to the employer, stays in accommodation owned/sourced by the employer and a lot of their wages pulled back that way. Just above indentured slavery.

Wonder how many c/kg it would cost to pay them well

Water John · 25-09-2019 10:09am

It's extra profit to the factory owners. We're all being skinned. They would love the fight between us, whilst they laugh all the way to the bank.
Not falling for that one.

wrangler · 25-09-2019 10:16am

Water John wrote: »

It's extra profit to the factory owners. We're all being skinned. They would love the fight between us, whilst they laugh all the way to the bank.
Not falling for that one.

Local independent factory here advertised for workers, same salary,
ICM pay per lamb, so slowing down the line for dirty lambs cost the workers money.

Muckit · 25-09-2019 10:51am

I wonder when lads get a sickening out of all this, will it knock a bit of the addiction off them?

Or will they be out buying and paying over the odds for stores in a few weeks time?

Robson99 · 25-09-2019 10:57am

Bass Reeves wrote: »

I am not sure if that will pay you unless they are not FS2+/3. If there FS is ok I be moving them on. Hosing and feeding will drive costs to 3 euro/day

They big Contenintal heifers.will take the feeding and conversion rate will be good. They agey cattle as well so have their growing done. Have been getting a couple of kgs outside for the last few weeks as well. Price cannot get any worse over next 6 weeks anyways

Bass Reeves · 25-09-2019 11:00am

Robson99 wrote: »

They big Contenintal heifers.will take the feeding and conversion rate will be good. They agey cattle as well so have their growing done. Have been getting a couple of kgs outside for the last few weeks as well. Price cannot get any worse over next 6 weeks anyways

Margin would be very tight, they will need to put on a kg of DW/day to break even on feeding costs

Robson99 · 25-09-2019 11:03am

Bass Reeves wrote: »

Margin would be very tight, they will need to put on a kg of DW/day to break even on feeding costs

Ya it will but hoping they will do a bit better that 1kg / day for first 4 - 6 weeks. That would polish them off. Like to have them 700kg+ at killing if at all possible

Muckit · 25-09-2019 11:20am

It is immaterial Bass what you are talking about. "Shoulda woulda coulda". If the grass isn't there, it isn't there and if the year is moving on and ground conditions are getting worse, then one must be pro active and weigh up the options.

Procurement managers won't be the nicest people to be dealing with for the next few weeks.

Muckit · 25-09-2019 11:21am

Bass Reeves wrote: »

Margin would be very tight, they will need to put on a kg of DW/day to break even on feeding costs

Sure that'll come out of the contingency margin that's built in.

Bass Reeves · 25-09-2019 11:29am

Muckit wrote: »

It is immaterial Bass what you are talking about. "Shoulda woulda coulda". If the grass isn't there, it isn't there and if the year is moving on and ground conditions are getting worse, then one must be pro active and weigh up the options.

Procurement managers won't be the nicest people to be dealing with for the next few weeks.

I agree I have two 700+kg continental bullocks over 36 months U+ grade at a guess. They are on 3kgs for 12+ weeks and are only FS2= at a guess. If I house and feed they will need 15kgs for 60+ days and silage to get FS on them that will cost over 4 euro/day. For to make it worth my while I need them to gain 1.5+kgs of DW/Day. I just take the present profit on them.

No point in feeding cattle where the profit gain is minimal. This could cause a silage issue next spring. Take the profit/loss and move on. No point in giving cheap beef to Larry.

I says · 25-09-2019 11:45am

Waiting to get rid of the heaviest cattle here started strip grazing at the weekend whatever they put on now will make up QA gone

Robson99 · 25-09-2019 12:13pm

Bass Reeves wrote: »

I agree I have two 700+kg continental bullocks over 36 months U+ grade at a guess. They are on 3kgs for 12+ weeks and are only FS2= at a guess. If I house and feed they will need 15kgs for 60+ days and silage to get FS on them that will cost over 4 euro/day. For to make it worth my while I need them to gain 1.5+kgs of DW/Day. I just take the present profit on them.

No point in feeding cattle where the profit gain is minimal. This could cause a silage issue next spring. Take the profit/loss and move on. No point in giving cheap beef to Larry.

Bass
If it was me i would up them to 10kgs for 4 weeks.. cost €70 on meal...you would be surprised how well them contenintal will do especially U grades

Siamsa Sessions · 25-09-2019 12:35pm

Muckit wrote: »

I wonder when lads get a sickening out of all this, will it knock a bit of the addiction off them?

Or will they be out buying and paying over the odds for stores in a few weeks time?

Plenty lads around here can't do anything else. They can't go milking cows, won't get into sheep, and don't have enough ground to make tillage worthwhile. They might plant a few wet acres with forestry, but no more than that.

We might all say they should change systems, sell up, get out, etc., but I know fellas who will stay going til they collapse of a heart-attack or until the bank eventually stops their credit and moves in to sell the place. I'm not sure what can be done to help change hearts and minds, but pure economics won't stop them.

Bass Reeves · 25-09-2019 12:44pm

Robson99 wrote: »

Bass
If it was me i would up them to 10kgs for 4 weeks.. cost €70 on meal...you would be surprised how well them contenintal will do especially U grades

They will want to come up a grades on the FS that is 6c/kg and increase DW by 20kgs to leave an extra 50 euro.

Dickie10 · 25-09-2019 1:02pm

the elephant in the room is there are a huge amount of purely hobby farmers out there rooting at suckler cows but more so they have store to beef , they have a building job or something paying well and intead of going off playing golf in evenings and weekends they like to play around at farming. these lads don't mind what they earn at it unless they really begin to lose big. you can be sure these boys probably wouldn't bother going near a protest march or anything like that. they just like to tip away in evenings for two hours and talk about it in the pub. they will keep hauling cattle in to factories. they wont go into sheep because they know the hardship if your not set up right and probably don't look on sheep with any great value probably more disdain, kind of the old idea of being "poor farmers stock" in their heads big white charrolais = "big farmers stock". this is as simple as it is for most at that game.

patsy_mccabe · 25-09-2019 1:23pm

I knew somone that put a nice simmental weanling heifer up for sale on Donedeal recently. Had 3 calls in the first half hour. First fella that came, bought her. There is a lot more at play here than running a business. Lads like being out and about. Sitting inside looking at the TV just doesnt appeal to them.

Anto_Meath · 25-09-2019 1:24pm

I would kind of fall into the class of farmer you are talking about, I have a full time job, keep 20 sucker cows and feed 30 bucket fed calves (AAx & Hex for the bonus) and then buy a few stores. But every animal is bought / reared for a target market and I can assure you I wouldn't be at it if I wasn't making money. Not as much this year as other years but I have made more profit this year 2019 than last year 2018. I have nearly all my cattle sold every year by the end of July to get the best prices. All I have left to go now is a few cull cows and a few that took a wee while to put on flesh and 2 yokes that were bought for small money last Christmas but they will cover themselves. Some big full time farmers are of the opinion that part time lads selling 50 - 60 cattle a year a only messing I can assure you that is not the case.

The Strike is over. What happens now?

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