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The Strike is over. What happens now?

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    #722
    jaymla627
    Registered Users Posts: 6,481 ✭✭✭jaymla627


    amacca wrote: »
    If that is the case then they are screwing the people they claim to help.

    They insisted on under 30 month beef from Brazil in July when they reopened the market to them, how in the name of jesus they could verify it is any ones guess, its handier to verify it in Ireland with our database


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    #723
    mf240
    Registered Users Posts: 4,847 ✭✭✭mf240


    They want under 30 month beef and beef from tb free farms.


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    #724
    DukeCaboom
    Registered Users Posts: 1,030 ✭✭✭DukeCaboom


    mf240 wrote: »
    They want under 30 month beef and beef from tb free farms.

    Tb free for 6 months.


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    #725
    amacca
    Registered Users Posts: 6,778 ✭✭✭amacca


    What's wrong with tb free beef from animals under say 36 months or 42 months


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    #726
    gerryirl
    Registered Users Posts: 577 ✭✭✭gerryirl


    amacca wrote: »
    What's wrong with tb free beef from animals under say 36 months or 42 months

    whats wrong with beef full stop


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    #727
    mf240
    Registered Users Posts: 4,847 ✭✭✭mf240


    amacca wrote: »
    What's wrong with tb free beef from animals under say 36 months or 42 months

    Nothing but they want it under 30, if ireland doesn't want to supply it, they will get it somewhere else


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    #728
    dzer2
    Registered Users Posts: 2,938 ✭✭✭dzer2


    amacca wrote: »
    What's wrong with tb free beef from animals under say 36 months or 42 months

    There would be no back log for their friends in the factories if the Chinese buy all over age beef


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    #729
    Buford T. Justice XIX
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,633 ✭✭✭✭Buford T. Justice XIX


    amacca wrote: »
    What's wrong with tb free beef from animals under say 36 months or 42 months

    It's a relic from BSE times, they judged the risk of contracting BSE from u30month animals to be minimal but increasing every month over 30 months.


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    #730
    amacca
    Registered Users Posts: 6,778 ✭✭✭amacca


    Buford T. Justice VI wrote: »
    It's a relic from BSE times, they judged the risk of contracting BSE from u30month animals to be minimal but increasing every month over 30 months.

    Just how sound is their judgement or the research behind it I wonder....

    Its mighty convenient timeline to put pressure on a primary producer, increase animal turnover and turn beef into a low value commodity.


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    #731
    Buford T. Justice XIX
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,633 ✭✭✭✭Buford T. Justice XIX


    amacca wrote: »
    Just how sound is their judgement or the research behind it I wonder....

    Its mighty convenient timeline to put pressure on a primary producer, increase animal turnover and turn beef into a low value commodity.

    There was a need to quickly put a safety guideline in place and iirc 30 months was about half the age of the youngest case found. It's one of those things brought in for one reason and kept on because it became familiar.

    The thought at the time was 10s of thousands getting nvCJD was likely but it turns out less than 100 actually got it so the threat was overblown to claim funding as it couldn't be refused for a large emerging public health threat.

    Now it's just a stick to beat farmers with.


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    #732
    amacca
    Registered Users Posts: 6,778 ✭✭✭amacca


    Buford T. Justice VI wrote: »
    iirc 30 months was about half the age of the youngest case found. It's one of those things brought in for one reason and kept on because it became familiar.

    Now it's just a stick to beat farmers with.

    Sounds an awful lot like they were just making **** up ... if that "it was about half the age of youngest case" thing is true

    Keeping things because they are familiar......

    Ffs why aren't farmers as a group screaming blue murder about it at every opportunity it is just a stick to beat the producer with and it will continue impact negatively on dairy sector too

    I would think it would be a lot better to get rid of it environmentally speaking as well


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    #733
    CloughCasey1
    Registered Users Posts: 2,741 ✭✭✭CloughCasey1


    amacca wrote: »
    Sounds an awful lot like they were just making **** up ... if that "it was about half the age of youngest case" thing is true

    Keeping things because they are familiar......

    Ffs why aren't farmers as a group screaming blue murder about it at every opportunity it is just a stick to beat the producer with and it will continue impact negatively on dairy sector too

    I would think it would be a lot better to get rid of it environmentally speaking as well

    No more screaming and shouting until March. When supply is slack then belt on.


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    #734
    wrangler
    Registered Users Posts: 11,064 ✭✭✭✭wrangler


    amacca wrote: »
    Sounds an awful lot like they were just making **** up ... if that "it was about half the age of youngest case" thing is true

    Keeping things because they are familiar......

    Ffs why aren't farmers as a group screaming blue murder about it at every opportunity it is just a stick to beat the producer with and it will continue impact negatively on dairy sector too

    I would think it would be a lot better to get rid of it environmentally speaking as well

    If they're killing beef cattle it's too late to be looking for environmental brownie points.
    They're the customers, only choice we have is to produce for them or not,
    They want the lighter carcase, simples


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    #735
    Bass Reeves
    Registered Users Posts: 18,195 ✭✭✭✭Bass Reeves


    Buford T. Justice VI wrote: »
    There was a need to quickly put a safety guideline in place and iirc 30 months was about half the age of the youngest case found. It's one of those things brought in for one reason and kept on because it became familiar.

    The thought at the time was 10s of thousands getting nvCJD was likely but it turns out less than 100 actually got it so the threat was overblown to claim funding as it couldn't be refused for a large emerging public health threat.

    Now it's just a stick to beat farmers with.

    In a way you are right. But not totally. As far as I remember at the start if animals were were over 30 months you had to pay for the BSE test it was about 20 euro/animal. Technically there was no reduction in price although they were last killed on the day and it was not unheard of that they were carried over to the following day. They then were the last kill this day as well. However when QA came in it was paid on sub 30 month cattle and this added to the BSE test changed farming direction. The BSE charge disappeared over time.

    If BSE testing of cattle did not happen and if we did not impose the 30 month test limit would nvCJD have become a full scale health scare who is to know. The reality is our whole problem was because of a few large scale commercial farmers feeding bonemeal. But then these are he real farmers in many people's opinion

    Slava Ukrainii



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    #736
    wrangler
    Registered Users Posts: 11,064 ✭✭✭✭wrangler


    Well, have you all got your tractors serviced/washed for next week :D
    Will it get support, many on here going


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    #737
    alps
    Registered Users Posts: 4,937 ✭✭✭alps


    Bass Reeves wrote: »
    The reality is our whole problem was because of a few large scale commercial farmers feeding bonemeal. But then these are he real farmers in many people's opinion


    You're a mine of inaccuracies this morning and bitterness towards sections...

    Contamination came from the millers and took out any size herd susceptible to it..


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    #738
    Bass Reeves
    Registered Users Posts: 18,195 ✭✭✭✭Bass Reeves


    alps wrote: »
    You're a mine of inaccuracies this morning and bitterness towards sections...

    Contamination came from the millers and took out any size herd susceptible to it..

    Incorrect yes in later cases but at the start there was bonemeal being used in Ireland mainly by some large scale lads. These were much the same lads that kept using hormones after they were banned.
    It was bone meal mainly from NI that caused the issue as the British government allowed it to be cooked it to a lower temperature. When the issue arose and it was linked to bone meal it was stopped first in Bovine rations and then when there was a fear of cross contamination they banned it use completely.

    Slava Ukrainii



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    #739
    Sheep breeder
    Registered Users Posts: 1,974 ✭✭✭Sheep breeder


    Bass Reeves wrote: »
    In a way you are right. But not totally. As far as I remember at the start if animals were were over 30 months you had to pay for the BSE test it was about 20 euro/animal. Technically there was no reduction in price although they were last killed on the day and it was not unheard of that they were carried over to the following day. They then were the last kill this day as well. However when QA came in it was paid on sub 30 month cattle and this added to the BSE test changed farming direction. The BSE charge disappeared over time.

    If BSE testing of cattle did not happen and if we did not impose the 30 month test limit would nvCJD have become a full scale health scare who is to know. The reality is our whole problem was because of a few large scale commercial farmers feeding bonemeal. But then these are he real farmers in many people's opinion

    The over 30 months were killed last every day and offal, blood, all separated from unders. Agree about the bonemeal. Can’t understand why lads are so caught up on the 30 month cattle, under cattle is what the market wants and they at most spend 2 winters on farm and with breeding now should be well fit to hang, the over could be on farm for 3 winters and bigger cost and less performance and more nitrates produced and higher costs.


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    #740
    K.G.
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 3,057 Mod ✭✭✭✭K.G.


    Ye have the head lost over this 30 months crack.if ye dont want to supply it dont supply it.


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    #741
    Sheep breeder
    Registered Users Posts: 1,974 ✭✭✭Sheep breeder


    Bass Reeves wrote: »
    Incorrect yes in later cases but at the start there was bonemeal being used in Ireland mainly by some large scale lads. These were much the same lads that kept using hormones after they were banned.
    It was bone meal mainly from NI that caused the issue as the British government allowed it to be cooked it to a lower temperature. When the issue arose and it was linked to bone meal it was stopped first in Bovine rations and then when there was a fear of cross contamination they banned it use completely.

    Exactly, if I remember correctly it was a 2 degree drop in the process to save energy in Margaret Thatcher reign. Banned from cattle and then poultry etc. We had a cross compliance inspection a couple of years ago and one big thing was the dog food stored near the meal feed.


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    #742
    Panch18
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,471 ✭✭✭Panch18


    alps wrote: »
    You're a mine of inaccuracies this morning and bitterness towards sections...

    Contamination came from the millers and took out any size herd susceptible to it..

    It's not just this morning!!


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    #743
    patsy_mccabe
    Registered Users Posts: 10,698 ✭✭✭✭patsy_mccabe


    https://twitter.com/willy_ledger/status/1197156305317900293

    'When I was a boy we were serfs, slave minded. Anyone who came along and lifted us out of that belittling, I looked on them as Gods.' - Dan Breen



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    #744
    amacca
    Registered Users Posts: 6,778 ✭✭✭amacca


    Sheep breeder wrote: »
    The over 30 months were killed last every day and offal, blood, all separated from unders. Agree about the bonemeal. Can’t understand why lads are so caught up on the 30 month cattle, under cattle is what the market wants and they at most spend 2 winters on farm and with breeding now should be well fit to hang, the over could be on farm for 3 winters and bigger cost and less performance and more nitrates produced and higher costs.

    I'd have to take issue with that...there might be less nitrates produced as you could run a lower stocking rate in a less intensive more extensive type system

    less inputs in terms of grain and fertiliser too, weight put on with less costs an let the animal get to around 600kg -650kg mark at a more leisurely pace ..less pressure on the land too and probably verifiably less emissions (even though I'd have big issues with demonising farmers for that when you consider how much other sectors are emitting + the very questionable methodology of calculating agricultural emissions)

    less animals might mean a better price per head too...maybe i have lost the head but in my head thats better than the increasing animal turnover and increasing inputs caused by the need to get an animal off under some ****ing pen pushers 30 month limit ..or worse all the vested interests 30 month limit....you are working harder to earn less at that imo


    really what the utter **** would be wrong with pushing it to even 36 months.....Id imagine the BSE risk would be negligible if there was one at all....from the description earlier it sounds a lot like that 30 month limit was plucked out of someones hole and its been retained because it suits to put pressure on the little guy and keep the rest in business

    if I'm wrong and you can prove it I'll apologise and never again buy a dairy cross that wasn't born 6 months before his birthdate on the card


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    #745
    K.G.
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 3,057 Mod ✭✭✭✭K.G.


    In the milking game you need to keep under 50 tbc,200 scc,antibiotics free,lactose over 4.2,collection for 3 or 3.5 days,clorine free,no milk from reactors and more if yiu want to get the best price.what.do you do ,you supply that standard if you want the best price.end of story.edit how.did i forget the old thermodurics☹


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    #746
    amacca
    Registered Users Posts: 6,778 ✭✭✭amacca


    I'm not suggesting I want to supply antibiotic laced tb ridden beef to a market that doesn't want it

    I'm suggesting maybe just maybe the 30 month limit isn't justified and perhaps the market doesn't really want it below that age at all .... maybe the system does to suit all the other "stake holders"

    When I seen that a couple of years ago (and perhaps still) some of the most in demand flavoursome beef in certain restaurants comes from what would have been cull dairy cows that were purchased for the express purpose of giving them a couple of years to graze naturally and fatten up (thus making them years upon years over any magic 30 month limit) ....it sort of blew any legitimate scientific validity a 30 month limit had for me out of the water......any recent nuggets of info about it have only served to reinforce my belief it is complete bull****

    That to me means that the over 30 month product has been devalued in the interests of everyone except the farmers .... they should be worked up about it....

    Of course if I seen some peer reviewed actual research from respected scientists/experts in the area or a report not funded/influenced by vested interests I would be open to changing my mind


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    #747
    Water John
    Registered Users Posts: 21,142 ✭✭✭✭Water John


    The specific millers involved at the time should have been sued as well as prosecuted. Got away free.


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    #748
    Bass Reeves
    Registered Users Posts: 18,195 ✭✭✭✭Bass Reeves


    This was an interesting interview yesterday in the business section of the Independent.

    https://www.independent.ie/business/farming/beef/fast-food-giant-mcdonalds-warns-of-longterm-threat-to-beef-sector-38727226.html

    Slava Ukrainii



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    #749
    Anto_Meath
    Registered Users Posts: 1,307 ✭✭✭Anto_Meath


    Friend of mine killed 16 Hex heifers on Monday, all out of his own dairy cow. This would be the 5th year killing heifers belong to the He mop bull he has. Every other year his heifers graded O= to R- but on Monday his heifers graded P+ to O=. Same type of heifers as he has been sending in for 5 years and would have got the same amount of meal for the same cows and off the same bull. As he said its bad enough getting shafted on price but to be getting shafted on grades is really putting the knife in.
    So this what the Factories have done in response to the 8 cent uplift in the price and the inclusion of the bonus for the O- grade.
    What is really need is independent grading for cattle in every factory as they are taking the mick big time at the minute.


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    #750
    Danzy
    Registered Users Posts: 13,298 ✭✭✭✭Danzy


    Anto_Meath wrote: »
    Friend of mine killed 16 Hex heifers on Monday, all out of his own dairy cow. This would be the 5th year killing heifers belong to the He mop bull he has. Every other year his heifers graded O= to R- but on Monday his heifers graded P+ to O=. Same type of heifers as he has been sending in for 5 years and would have got the same amount of meal for the same cows and off the same bull. As he said its bad enough getting shafted on price but to be getting shafted on grades is really putting the knife in.
    So this what the Factories have done in response to the 8 cent uplift in the price and the inclusion of the bonus for the O- grade.
    What is really need is independent grading for cattle in every factory as they are taking the mick big time at the minute.

    There isn't even consistency in the one factory, nevermind across the industry.

    You'd have to suspect that the sales demand has more impact on the carcasse grade than its conformity,

    You'd have to wonder are more in spec carcasses sold than are paid for.


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    #751
    Bass Reeves
    Registered Users Posts: 18,195 ✭✭✭✭Bass Reeves


    Danzy wrote: »
    There isn't even consistency in the one factory, nevermind across the industry.

    You'd have to suspect that the sales demand has more impact on the carcasse grade than its conformity,

    You'd have to wonder are more in spec carcasses sold than are paid for.

    Processor's put the meat onto trays now. If they put two ribeye or striplion steaks onto a tray of the right confirmation it immaterial whether the animal graded R,O or P to the retailer. To them it just means they do not pay QA or breed bonuses.

    Slava Ukrainii



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