Aer Lingus Fleet/ Routes Discussion Pt 2 (ALL possible routes included)

basill · 19-04-2021 10:38am

LiamaDelta wrote: »

This comes up again and again. Aer Lingus has taken a €150m loan from the ISIF. Ryanair have not sought any Government assistance. So it seems that on the one occasion an airline requested help, they got it. You can't force loans on a company that doesn't want them.

No assistance from Irish government as yet but accepted a GBP600m loan from UK last year.

https://www.thenationalnews.com/business/economy/ryanair-taps-uk-government-loan-programme-for-600m-1.1020977

Eddie Wilson reported last week as saying Ireland is last on the companies list of countries to invest in the short term. So taking that reasoning why would you want to tap the Irish government for assistance which will no doubt come with strings attached if you had already made the decision that there is no point in making further investment in the country for the foreseeable? Much better to redeploy assets overseas and avail of potentially less onerous repayment terms.

goingnowhere · 19-04-2021 12:46pm

Ryanair and EI will happily take 'free' money, so loans on commercial terms if cheaper than those available via normal channels.

No one want to deal with Irish politicians, particularly those in Shannon who still to this day have and continue to damage the industry, 28L in Dublin was built long but not long enough as they did the math to ensure Shannon was a stopover. To this very day this has caused problems and limits

IAG is going to have do some cleaning and BA needs a total rethink as it is over exposed to first/business. Air Europa will be interesting. EI going after MAN is a positive step to build some demand and cash flow. You never know MAN to Spain on a A330?

California Dreamer · 19-04-2021 4:10pm

Searching for some discussion about the fleet or possible routes.....

Van.Bosch · 19-04-2021 5:46pm

California Dreamer wrote: »

Searching for some discussion about the fleet or possible routes.....

Route reductions are the only thing on the cards anytime soon I’d imagine unfortunately.

Tenger · 20-04-2021 11:11am

California Dreamer wrote: »

Searching for some discussion about the fleet or possible routes.....

Unfortunately there are hardly any routes to discuss. (6 departures from Dublin on Tuesdays and Saturdays!!)Once the 8th A321LR gets delivered we may only heard of fleet reductions for the next 12-18 months.

2 mates from EI did pass some info regarding possible restart on some routes over the Summer.
But until that’s in the public sphere I won’t be posting anything just yet.
I’m guessing it will be altered by fast moving circumstances, like every airline plan over the last 12 months

Jamie2k9 · 20-04-2021 8:36pm

California Dreamer wrote: »

Searching for some discussion about the fleet or possible routes.....

Not exactly Aer Lingus mainline but:
Dublin-Exeter (operated by BHD based ATR)
Belfast-Newquay

KnicksInSix · 20-04-2021 8:59pm

Flights booked for 5th June DUB-VRN cancelled this evening, surprised because it appeared to be fairly full a few weeks ago.

Tenger · 20-04-2021 9:08pm

Talguetler wrote: »

Flights booked for 5th June DUB-VRN cancelled this evening, surprised because it appeared to be fairly full a few weeks ago.

Saw a post on airliners.net this morning saying most of the short haul has been removed from sale up till end of June.

Jamie2k9 · 26-04-2021 12:14pm

Iberia and Aer Lingus are now code sharing.

https://www.aerlingus.com/plan-and-book/plan/our-airline-partners.

Aer Lingus flights to MAD available via IB website and IB connections off EI T/A via EI website.

Notable connections now possible are LAX-DUB-MAD and SFO-DUB-MAD which were not possible.

Van.Bosch · 27-04-2021 12:08am

Jamie2k9 wrote: »

Iberia and Aer Lingus are now code sharing.

https://www.aerlingus.com/plan-and-book/plan/our-airline-partners.

Aer Lingus flights to MAD available via IB website and IB connections off EI T/A via EI website.

Notable connections now possible are LAX-DUB-MAD and SFO-DUB-MAD which were not possible.

Wonder why you can’t book IB on EI for Dublin to Madrid, is it because Iberia express or just not part of this deal?

Would imagine dub to South America via MAD would provide some traffic?

Nijmegen · 27-04-2021 10:19am

Van.Bosch wrote: »

Wonder why you can’t book IB on EI for Dublin to Madrid, is it because Iberia express or just not part of this deal?

Would imagine dub to South America via MAD would provide some traffic?

You'd hope not at the moment!

But yes this is a welcome move, pre-pandemic the English industry in Ireland was importing Brazilians in particular at a ferocious rate who could then work and put down roots on their visa (and very happy we are to have them, lest we forget it was a tight labour market only a year ago). Hopefully these folks stay and continue to flourish in Ireland, and go back and forth to home in a way similar to our Polish etc neighbors. You'd suspect direct to Latin America is a bit like L*s *eg*s but with strong connections EI can drive more efficiency in the short haul network without going off to do things in regions it doesn't really have experience of.

L1011 · 27-04-2021 11:48am

Dublin-Exeter is actually launching. Looks like late August, 4w, Stobart operated.

LXFlyer · 27-04-2021 12:06pm

L1011 wrote: »

Dublin-Exeter is actually launching. Looks like late August, 4w, Stobart operated.

Using one of the Belfast based aircraft on a "W" routing - Belfast-Exeter-Dublin-Exeter-Belfast.

Chris_5339762 · 27-04-2021 1:03pm

30th August according to the email I got. I suspect myself that is reasonable - the government will dilly and dither and outright impede travel until the schools go back.

Jack1985 · 27-04-2021 1:09pm

Aer Lingus proposing 25% reduction in workforce (875 job losses) and will be unable to maintain current pay rates (already -50% at all grades) for Winter 2021/22, it wasn't confirmed if this meant the remaining workforce would be furloughed on Gov shoulders. It says this is the reality if no Summer season can be recovered this year.

This would see the Aer Lingus workforce already having already reduced from 4,500 to circa 3,500 through a mixture of redundancies, part time, career breaks and voluntary severance, reducing further by 25% to circa 2,600.

Pilots, Cabin Crew and Ground Operations will bear the brunt, devastating news.

Irish Steve · 27-04-2021 1:12pm

LXFlyer wrote: »

Using one of the Belfast based aircraft on a "W" routing - Belfast-Exeter-Dublin-Exeter-Belfast.

Happy to see this route coming back into operation, and I hope it works for them, the prices are reasonable, which was the downside of Flybe when they operated the route, when compared to Bristol and getting the bus to Exeter. We've family there, so this will be a route that will figure in our future plans.

Another possible plus factor will be that the former Flybe maintenance facitlity at Exeter is now part of Dublin Aerospace, with maintence for ATR being part of their future operation plan, so I wouldn't be surprised to see aircraft maintenance swaps being done during the rotations, with bases at both Belfast and Dublin, changing aircraft as part of scheduled operations is the best of both worlds, in that it saves non revenue sectors to get the aircraft there.

The timings are not bad either, there were times when the Flybe timings were less than optimal for a once daily rotation, hopefully, it will be the beginning of a more substantial return to that part of the world.

cson · 27-04-2021 1:51pm

Jack1985 wrote: »

Aer Lingus proposing 25% reduction in workforce (875 job losses) and will be unable to maintain current pay rates (already -50% at all grades) for Winter 2021/22, it wasn't confirmed if this meant the remaining workforce would be furloughed on Gov shoulders. It says this is the reality if no Summer season can be recovered this year.

This would see the Aer Lingus workforce already having already reduced from 4,500 to circa 3,500 through a mixture of redundancies, part time, career breaks and voluntary severance, reducing further by 25% to circa 2,600.

Pilots, Cabin Crew and Ground Operations will bear the brunt, devastating news.

Joe Walsh Tours gone too by the looks of things.

Didn't have to be like this, I hope its remembered at election time.

Jack1985 · 27-04-2021 2:51pm

cson wrote: »

Joe Walsh Tours gone too by the looks of things.

Didn't have to be like this, I hope its remembered at election time.

The reality is I'm not sure election's really matter for anybody in Aviation at present. The opposition wanted all countries on MHQ, which would have accelerated this even faster.

California Dreamer · 27-04-2021 4:44pm

cson wrote: »

I hope its remembered at election time.

There is optimism for you! They will buy us off with something else.

flange888 · 27-04-2021 5:44pm

Jack1985 wrote:

Aer Lingus proposing 25% reduction in workforce (875 job losses) and will be unable to maintain current pay rates (already -50% at all grades) for Winter 2021/22, it wasn't confirmed if this meant the remaining workforce would be furloughed on Gov shoulders. It says this is the reality if no Summer season can be recovered this year.

Jack1985 wrote:

This would see the Aer Lingus workforce already having already reduced from 4,500 to circa 3,500 through a mixture of redundancies, part time, career breaks and voluntary severance, reducing further by 25% to circa 2,600.

Jack1985 wrote:

Pilots, Cabin Crew and Ground Operations will bear the brunt, devastating news.

Hi Jack, just wondering if you could share where this was reported?

California Dreamer · 27-04-2021 5:53pm

flange888 wrote: »

Hi Jack, just wondering if you could share where this was reported?

By the union

Captain_Crash · 27-04-2021 5:54pm

flange888 wrote: »

Hi Jack, just wondering if you could share where this was reported?

There’s a few Air Lingus pilots on Twitter have confirmed it after a call with the unions this morning!

kevinandrew · 27-04-2021 6:08pm

It’s desperately disappointing news for everyone at the airline and for the business itself of course, all the growth and success achieved over the past 5 years all undone.

The pandemic was obviously going to result in some shrinkage but this was quietly expected to be temporary, and in many cases it has been, a number of US carriers for example are rapidly bouncing back and I have no doubt we’ll see the start of the same across Europe towards the tail end of this summer season but for Ireland, aviation has been wilfully left behind by its government, aided by a hysterical media fuelled by a Facebook obsessed culture.

There seems to be zero interest from anyone in power to support aviation, in fact they continue to dismiss and discourage.

There’s no guarantee that Aer Lingus UK will be a success, without it, the overall business has a real battle ahead.

Nibs05 · 27-04-2021 8:31pm

That’s a way nice for some staff to know this through boards.ie.

Jack1985 · 27-04-2021 9:05pm

Nibs05 wrote: »

That’s a way nice for some staff to know this through boards.ie.

Imagine how they feel when Gov TD's have been ad libbing about their futures for months.

EI has repeatedly warned of the consequences for months of operating at -95%.

Nibs05 · 27-04-2021 9:09pm

Jack1985 wrote: »

Imagine how they feel when Gov TD's have been ad libbing about their futures for months.

EI has repeatedly warned of the consequences for months of operating at -95%.

Indeed but I would like to see a official email from the union or Aer Lingus not a post that has people now worried, as far as I can see nobody I know has received any email. Feel free to pm me with any evidence you have to back it up.

lintdrummer · 27-04-2021 9:24pm

I feel it's important to point out that Aer Lingus have not communicated anything of this nature to employees. It has come from some misinterpretation of what was said in a union meeting.
It is likely that Aer Lingus are stating these kind of figures to Union bosses as a worst case scenario. Union bosses are looking at ways to avoid this via further reducing salaries and temporary lay offs etc. if needs be, but absolutely nothing has been actually decided.
That said, the situation is obviously bleak and this misinformation is causing considerable stress to employees in all sections.
It is not too late to salvage some form of Summer operation that could prevent all of this but it would require a serious U turn by government so it's unlikely to happen unfortunately.

California Dreamer · 28-04-2021 7:23am

lintdrummer wrote: »

It is likely that Aer Lingus are stating these kind of figures to Union bosses as a worst case scenario.

That is exactly what I was told. Worst case scenario by 2 EI pilots.

Tenger · 28-04-2021 9:44am

lintdrummer wrote: »

I feel it's important to point out that Aer Lingus have not communicated anything of this nature to employees. It has come from some misinterpretation of what was said in a union meeting.
It is likely that Aer Lingus are stating these kind of figures to Union bosses as a worst case scenario. Union bosses are looking at ways to avoid this via further reducing salaries and temporary lay offs etc. if needs be, but absolutely nothing has been actually decided.
That said, the situation is obviously bleak and this misinformation is causing considerable stress to employees in all sections.
It is not too late to salvage some form of Summer operation that could prevent all of this but it would require a serious U turn by government so it's unlikely to happen unfortunately.

My thoughts exactly. Had heard the forecast from 2 seperate EI mates (one pilot, one cabin crew)
I think that grim forecast is certainly a possibility if there is no travel in late summer. I'm guessing it's based on previous statements from members of the Govt indicating "no foreign travel" until 2022.
Unfortunately such Union-mgmt planning meetings have to be realistic about possible future operations.

Irish Times today does however have a couple of more positive sounding articles regarding "summer reopening"

Jack1985 · 28-04-2021 10:45am

If you'd have said to me 12 months ago that employment would go from 4,500 to 3,500 that salaries would be cut by 50% and in some instances down as far -75% (albeit being recovered somewhat) I would have that you were being particularly pessimistic.

The reality is EI have no tangible opportunity to plan for recovery, no dates whatsoever to try and feed a meaningful recovery. I honestly cannot see the operation rising to any sort of a meaningful level with the current status quo. The reality is the worst outcome may be reality indeed without a gear change in Government.

Aer Lingus Fleet/ Routes Discussion Pt 2 (ALL possible routes included)

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