I just got offer council house from hell !

clouds · 20-02-2011 11:06am

You married Rodin? Or still a virgin?

(Cos there's only 2 options now in our new improved society

)

The_Conductor · 20-02-2011 11:18am

clouds wrote: »

My personal opinion is that everyone IS entitled to a basic standard of human dignity and the neccessities of life, because I don't believe all poverty is self inflicted.

Part of the issue is- people's expectations of what a basic standard of human dignity and the necessities of life has changed radically over the last 20 years.

Smoking, drinking, nights out and holidays- are not a basic standard of human dignity or a necessity of life. A roof over someone's head (a basic housing need fulfilled- not an a la carte demand for a particular type of housing), food on their table (sufficient to healthily nourish them- not luxuries), and a reasonable expectation of being able to live peacefully in a safe environment (aka non-violent, and with recourse to the Gardai etc as necessary)- are both basic standards of living and of human dignity.

Once you define what the bare essentials are- everything else is a luxury that has a price attached to it, that must be met from somewhere.

Holidays, smoking, drinking, buying lottery tickets, new clothes, ready meals etc- are all luxuries- that people may or may not be able to afford.

Being in a position to stay at home and care for your own children- regardless of whether its of your volition, or as a result of not being able to find employment- is also a luxury......

Free healthcare and free education (irrespective of whether you are happy with the standards provided)- are also luxuries.

Irish people (in general)- over the past 2 decades have come to expect a number of these luxuries as standard- and over time have come to believe that these luxuries are in fact basic necessities- when in fact they are not.

The perception of these luxuries as necessities- is by no means consolidated in any particular socio-economic group- the unemployed, those on the minimum wage, those further up the food chain- have all changed their perceptions of what is 'normal' and all need a readjustment in their expectations..........

Our costs of living in Ireland are among the top 15 worldwide- for no good reason. Our social welfare state costs exceed those of most OPEC nations per head of population. We spend more on health and education than even the Nordic countries (though we do spend a lot less on defence). We eat, drink, smoke, gamble and holiday- like we are oil sheiks. We all want to own our own property (this seems to a particularly Irish obsession). We seem to expect someone else (some mythical person somewhere) to pay for all of these luxuries..........

Something has to give.......

professore · 20-02-2011 11:27am

Trophywife wrote: »

I got a mortgage five years ago. I'm twenty six now and put myself through college for 6 years to get what I have now. Its called hard work and have ambition in life. Age has nothing to do with it. I'd rather be getting a mortage and buying a house now than at the peak five years ago. I didn't go having kids when I knew I couldn't support them and then expect for the state to pay for them and house them. Good job there's more people like me, than there is people having kids when they can't support them cos the country would be in even more of a mess then!!

I'm not a snob. People lost jobs and its terrible...wasn't they're fault but it happened and they need to get through it. The real snobbery comes from people who are claiming social welfare and think they're too good to work in a minimum wage job. And there's a hell of a lot of that going on.

How did you save at least € 30 K for a deposit for a house at twenty one while in college ?

clouds · 20-02-2011 11:30am

smccarrick wrote: »

Part of the issue is- people's expectations of what a basic standard of human dignity and the necessities of life has changed radically over the last 20 years.

TRUE

Smoking, drinking, nights out and holidays- are not a basic standard of human dignity or a necessity of life. TRUE

A roof over someone's head (a basic housing need fulfilled- not an a la carte demand for a particular type of housing), food on their table (sufficient to healthily nourish them- not luxuries), and a reasonable expectation of being able to live peacefully in a safe environment (aka non-violent, and with recourse to the Gardai etc as necessary)- are both basic standards of living and of human dignity. TRUE

Once you define what the bare essentials are- everything else is a luxury that has a price attached to it, that must be met from somewhere.

Holidays, smoking, drinking, buying lottery tickets, new clothes, ready meals etc- are all luxuries- that people may or may not be able to afford.

Being in a position to stay at home and care for your own children- regardless of whether its of your volition, or as a result of not being able to find employment- is also a luxury...... TOO MANY DIFFERING CIRCUMSTANCES TO MAKE A BLANKET JUDGEMENT

Free healthcare and free education (irrespective of whether you are happy with the standards provided)- are also luxuries. HEALTHCARE IS A NECCESSITY, UP TO SECOND LEVEL EDU IS A NECCESSITY

Irish people (in general)- over the past 2 decades have come to expect a number of these luxuries as standard- and over time have come to believe that these luxuries are in fact basic necessities- when in fact they are not.

The perception of these luxuries as necessities- is by no means consolidated in any particular socio-economic group- the unemployed, those on the minimum wage, those further up the food chain- have all changed their perceptions of what is 'normal' and all need a readjustment in their expectations..........

Our costs of living in Ireland are among the top 15 worldwide- for no good reason. Our social welfare state costs exceed those of most OPEC nations per head of population. We spend more on health and education than even the Nordic countries (though we do spend a lot less on defence). We eat, drink, smoke, gamble and holiday- like we are oil sheiks. We all want to own our own property (this seems to a particularly Irish obsession). We seem to expect someone else (some mythical person somewhere) to pay for all of these luxuries..........

Something has to give.......

Ok smcarrick I don't know how to do the multiquote thing so have thrown in some caps there I hope you know what I mean.

But your general point is true. Our standards have risen massively. I don't know what to make of that really except - why not? Isn't the whole of human history about rising standards for a more comfortable luxurious life, or at least the attempts?

Also if standards rise I don't think they should only rise for the top half (or 5%) in society.

TBH I sometimes feel like we're living in some kind of some kind of End Time scenario. with peak oil, climate change and the rise of the East our grandchildren will marvel at the levels of comfort, food, travel we enjoyed.... (Anyway I'll get me coat. i'll be in conspiracy theories if any one wants me.)

The_Conductor · 20-02-2011 11:59am

clouds wrote: »

Ok smcarrick I don't know how to do the multiquote thing so have thrown in some caps there I hope you know what I mean.

Copying and pasting the opening

clouds wrote: »

and finishing it with the close quote in chain bracket which also must be copy and pasted for each instance of the open quote.

clouds wrote: »

But your general point is true. Our standards have risen massively. I don't know what to make of that really except - why not? Isn't the whole of human history about rising standards for a more comfortable luxurious life, or at least the attempts?

Standards rose massively- however that rise in standards was paid for with illusionary wealth, that never really existed. People grew to presume they could do an annual equity release on their apartment or house- to pay for their annual car, and their 2-3 annual holidays. The government gladly collected the taxes on all these transactions- and did their damndest to encourage property prices to continue rising- so there was this equity to release (and also so they could collect the stamp duty). And the social welfare and pension recipients gained by virtue of having their entitlements index linked to a notional average industrial wage. Meanwhile public sector employees got themselves benchmarked to private sector employees- engaged in servicing this illusionary wealth- so the whole economy- from the top to the very bottom, was being supported with ghost strutts.......

clouds wrote: »

Also if standards rise I don't think they should only rise for the top half (or 5%) in society.

Standards didn't just rise for the top half- or even the top 5%- on a purely statistical basis, the percentage increase in net worth was in fact greater for those on social welfare than those at the top 5% of society (when you enumerate all entitlements being claimed). Yes- the top 5% benefited wildly from our illusionary wealth- however they also lost most when the collapse happened- and their new found poverty is being blamed for a not insignificant collapse of a major portion of the tax base.

Standards rose for everyone- however the wealth we used to pay for the increase in standards- did not exist. Now that we have accepted that this 'wealth' was an illusion- we have all become used to these increases in standards, and loathe to readjust our perspectives, to accept lower standards, that we can actually afford.

clouds wrote: »

TBH I sometimes feel like we're living in some kind of some kind of End Time scenario. with peak oil, climate change and the rise of the East our grandchildren will marvel at the levels of comfort, food, travel we enjoyed.... (Anyway I'll get me coat. i'll be in conspiracy theories if any one wants me.)

In an Irish context- we are in cyclical fairytale. When we joined the EU- we had a boom in agricultural land prices- and a consequent boom in financial activity in the economy. Then that crashed. We had the boom of the 1977-1978 era- where Jack Lynch spent ludicrous amounts of money like there was no tomorrow- and the country loved his proliferate ways. Then we had the bust of the 1980s. We had the boom from 1994 onwards- and now we've the bust again....... Our emigration levels are already back at levels last seen in the 1980s- and set to rise, as economic opportunities rise elsewhere........

To be completely honest with you- we appear to be singularly incapable of governing ourselves- and have proven this time and time again. Our particular brand of parochial politics has bankrupt us several times over- and our pre-occupation with pandering to every little special interest group out there- has tied us up three ways in red tape.......

Short of demolishing our country and redesigning it from the bottom up- we are finished. We simply cannot afford to continue- business as usual- there is no light at the end of the tunnel- unless of course its an express train headlight coming at us head-on, to mow us down.......

Wibbs · 20-02-2011 12:09pm

Thundering good post smccarrick.

clouds · 20-02-2011 12:17pm

Thanks for the explanation smmcarrick.

I don't have much to quibble with in the rest of your post. Except to say it sounds perilously close to 'We all partied'. Maybe it's true to an extent. But what's definitely true is that the same few will be stuck with wiping up the vomit in the morning.

None of it was real. And now we have to find a new level of normal. We have a chance now to end the cycle and to make a better society. But we won't, will we.

Bullseye1 · 20-02-2011 12:22pm

Good post SMM.

@OP sorry to read that the house does not meet your requirements. Unfortunately you don't have to live in a council house to have unbearable neighbours. A good friend of mine who is no longer with us said that there is 1 in 10 bad neighbours and I tend to agree.

The_Conductor · 20-02-2011 12:23pm

clouds wrote: »

We have a chance now to end the cycle and to make a better society. But we won't, will we.

Sadly- I don't think we'll make a better society. We've been in this position so many times in the past- eventually someone throws us a bone, and we get our act together to some semblence of normality- before we go and blow it all again. We might laugh at the perceptions many people have of the Irish- but there is unfortunately more than a grain of truth associated with most of the 'Irish' myths........ Our traditional pressure release- has been allowing our brightest and best to feck off to the States, Australia, Canada and France- where they have done wonderfully well both for themselves and their adopted countries. We seem to be set on using this traditional outlet once more.

Bullseye1 · 20-02-2011 12:29pm

smccarrick wrote: »

Sadly- I don't think we'll make a better society. We've been in this position so many times in the past- eventually someone throws us a bone, and we get our act together to some semblence of normality- before we go and blow it all again. We might laugh at the perceptions many people have of the Irish- but there is unfortunately more than a grain of truth associated with most of the 'Irish' myths........ Our traditional pressure release- has been allowing our brightest and best to feck off to the States, Australia, Canada and France- where they have done wonderfully well both for themselves and their adopted countries. We seem to be set on using this traditional outlet once more.

Isn't this down to how the country is run and how much of the population is obsessed with local politics and not national. Until we get our governance right how can we expect to progress.

Some people comment on Russia and it's shams of a government but this is down to the total lack of interest from the general public who seem content with how the country is run as as a quasi dictatorship. But we are not much different we are more concerned with local politics and don't concern ourselves with the more important issues of national politics and now it's come and bit us in the ass.

The_Conductor · 20-02-2011 1:32pm

Bullseye1 wrote: »

Isn't this down to how the country is run and how much of the population is obsessed with local politics and not national. Until we get our governance right how can we expect to progress.

That, unfortunately is the knux of the issue.
Ireland is stuck in a feudal mindset- where every little village and town is actively fighting against their neighbouring villages and town, county against county- and the rest of the country as a whole against Dublin. There is sod all recognition that we are a tiny little country on the global stage, and we simply cannot afford (financially or metaphysically) to practise local politics.

Local politics- and our system of councils and councillors should be scrapped in their entirety, and national politics should be changed to a list system, where people genuinely interested in what is best for the country as a whole, have the opportunity to selflessly practice their craft. The Jackie Healy Raes and other gombeens should be consigned to the dustbin of history.

I genuinely don't think that people actually realise just how self destructive the Irish, as a nation, really are.......

Bullseye1 · 20-02-2011 1:40pm

I cannot believe we are still hearing the term blue shirt. FFS.

Dudess · 20-02-2011 1:59pm

danbohan wrote: »

it is that simple , in ireland their is an element in society who feel they have the right to live off other people or that they should have everything provided for them

Yes, there is (albeit its size exaggerated by the hysteria media) however some folks just love to look down on others and lump all of those who are in receipt of state subsidised assistance in with them.

eg last week of of a "gentleman" in galway getting free legal aid while the taxpayers of this country give him 44k a year for the dubious benefit of having him live among us

What use is ONE example of a person who is taking the piss when there are thousands and thousands and thousands of others who don't?

so if you are in a position where you are asking the goverment ie your friends and neighbors the taxpayers to provide housing for you and your family that you for whatever reason have chosen not to provide for yourself ,then take what you are given and be grateful you live in a society that feels it needs to provide you with shelter .

You wouldn't even bother to consider the individual circumstances that lead to people being housed by a local authority, no? You'd never maybe consider residents of an estate in Limerick who are being terrorised relentlessly and would give anything to get out of their predicament, but in the meantime they'll have to make do with putting perspex on their windows and not having visits from their relatives and friends?
No ****ing compassion at all like?
The OP gave no indication whatsoever that she just decided to "sponge" - you don't know what circumstances led her to where she is, so it seems the decent thing to do would be not to judge.

Graces7 · 20-02-2011 3:11pm

man.about.town wrote: »

yes and i sympathize with your plight, however, no i wouldn't last too long there and thats why i bought my own house in a place i wanted to live. i stand by what i said and have no qualms saying them again, OUR GENEROUS BENEFIT ENTITLEMENTS ARE FAR TO GENEROUS IN THE CURRENT CLIMATE. a complete overhaul is needed.

I am not asking for "sympathy" so please stop the patronising. And ther eis no "plight": I am no different from thousands of others... My life is fine if limited, as I clearly said. But with any less money? And unless the RA comes through soon, there will be more problems.

Simply trying to let you see what life is really like. Maybe you should trot over to "state benefits" and read what some of the brave souls recently made jobless are having to do to survive. Brave, strong folk. Who have done no wrong and who are entitled to a decent life.

And please do not shout. Old I may be but not deaf.
Thank you.

These benefits are not some kind of benevolent hand outs; they are our right as citizens. The rights of any civilised society in fact. Only really civilised societies would never speak as you do. Would never assume that it is "them" and "us" or speak as of we, who are sick or old, should bow or tug our forelocks in gratitude.

What goes around comes around; take heed.

Rather it is the ones, like you maybe, who clearly are earning more than you need, to give more to the economy now in this "present climate". We have nothing and in some cases less than nothing.
Maybe raise taxes now so that we can live.

We are not beggars; this truly is going back to Victorian ideas.. We are valued and valuable members of society.

Not some kind of low life.

Have you any realistic idea of what food , fuel etc cost? Day by day?
What do you suggest we cut to accommodate your ideas?

The OP has a right to safe accommodation and a safe environment in which to raise her precious children. And the right also to say no to this place if she thinks that there is danger there. She is not a beggar. NB if the man is living there on the sly that can be stopped.

PS thanks for the thanks; I came back with some misgivings! Bravo!

Graces7 · 20-02-2011 3:14pm

smccarrick wrote: »

That, unfortunately is the knux of the issue.
Ireland is stuck in a feudal mindset- where every little village and town is actively fighting against their neighbouring villages and town, county against county- and the rest of the country as a whole against Dublin. There is sod all recognition that we are a tiny little country on the global stage, and we simply cannot afford (financially or metaphysically) to practise local politics.

Local politics- and our system of councils and councillors should be scrapped in their entirety, and national politics should be changed to a list system, where people genuinely interested in what is best for the country as a whole, have the opportunity to selflessly practice their craft. The Jackie Healy Raes and other gombeens should be consigned to the dustbin of history.

I genuinely don't think that people actually realise just how self destructive the Irish, as a nation, really are.......

Oh we do; this is something we speak of every day.... But then we are incomers.. Well put indeed; thank you!

Dudess · 20-02-2011 3:23pm

Graces7 wrote: »

Maybe you should trot over to "state benefits" and read what some of the brave souls recently made jobless are having to do to survive. Brave, strong folk. Who have done no wrong and who are entitled to a decent life.

It's a forum I'd personally avoid unless I had to use it (touch wood) as the blood would be angered by horrible snobbish comments like here and I'd say something bannable...

Unfortunately while your suggestion to pay a visit to it to see a bit of reality is well intentioned, I fear nothing will change some minds here...

wolfpawnat · 20-02-2011 3:37pm

Bullseye1 wrote: »

I cannot believe we are still hearing the term blue shirt. FFS.

Same as hearing RA heads for those in SF. They may once have been armed militants, but even as politicians they are being hit with that brush still!

OP I know the feeling, I grew up in a council estate. Most of my neighbours were good people, who worked (yes, worked, min wage jobs though) and kept the place clean and everything. But there is always the few scumbags who destroy it for everyone.

Could you go to the housing dept and explain it is not the house, but the neighbour! Worst they can say is tough tiddle!

Graces7 · 21-02-2011 9:19am

Dudess wrote: »

It's a forum I'd personally avoid unless I had to use it (touch wood) as the blood would be angered by horrible snobbish comments like here and I'd say something bannable...
Unfortunately while your suggestion to pay a visit to it to see a bit of reality is well intentioned, I fear nothing will change some minds here...

I know what you mean; but there is not that much of that there. Most are trying to find their way through the maze of red tape etc just to get any benefits; with the present issues we have re RA I know the feeling.:rolleyes:

I gather that Cork is the worst place for delays re RA.

Incidentally, a comment came last night that is it not we who get RA but the landlords... How true.

And yes, closed minds. But some learn only the hard way...

Elle Collins · 21-02-2011 1:44pm

professore wrote: »

How did you save at least € 30 K for a deposit for a house at twenty one while in college ?

+ 1

..though I'm not so much wondering where she got the cash as I'm wondering how much exactly daddy gave her.

How sickening to read the noxious views of some of pampered and privileged grown-up brats on this thread.

Darlughda · 21-02-2011 3:08pm

feelingstressed wrote: »

Seems to be more of a Humanities thread then an accommodation thread at this stage

smccarrick wrote: »

I have to agree with you there. Providing it remains civil in nature- I'm happy enough to allow it to run though. I'm not sure that there is a more appropriate home for it.

Actually, I think this thread hits the core of issues regarding accomodation & property in Ireland. Although, this also encompasses the humanities forum remit, the attitudes towards people in need of social housing reveal so much about why people were willing to let themselves fall for the credit bubble and buy overpriced property.

What is shocking are people's vitriol for those at the lower end of the economic scale, rather than the property developers and those who invested in house after house, with the motivation as money, rather than any interest in being a good landlord.

Elle Collins · 21-02-2011 4:17pm

Darlughda wrote: »

What is shocking are people's vitriol for those at the lower end of the economic scale,

It is shocking, and I've never seen it evidenced anywhere as clearly as on boards.ie.

It just goes to show how fortunate some people are in life. Such ignorance is evidence of a privileged background.

Graces7 · 21-02-2011 5:21pm

Elle Collins wrote: »

It is shocking, and I've never seen it evidenced anywhere as clearly as on boards.ie.

It just goes to show how fortunate some people are in life. Such ignorance is evidence of a privileged background.

Interesting; thank you.

There is a kind of.. almost ritualistic expectation of what "life" should hold. smcarrick listed it well.. holidays, nights out etc etc.

But that is a fairly new thing. Reading the book by Christina Noble of the appalling poverty so many lived in in Dublin as late as the 60s. Burnng the lino to cook food... fleas and lice... And many remember that still only too well.

That too is part of the reason ..New pleasures grasped at. Immoderately.

I have never had any of that .. the last hoiiday I had was nearly 30 years ago; visiting friends in France. I don;t consider myself deprived or to be pitied. Living very simply has become second nature...Nothing difficult or deprived. It is as it is. Would I take a holiday if it were offered? No. Nor a night out.
These things are not needful.

And there are so many small pleasures and joys to be experienced.

Although it would be a help to be able to keep warm in winter! :rolleyes:;) But we have survived and today the sun is out.

daisydais · 24-02-2011 3:28am

I'm really shocked and surprised at the ignorance of some people on this thread, as people have been saying you dont no what this persons situation is???

I'm a single parent didnt receive any benefits expect child benefit that every mother receives working or not until last year which resulted in me getting a paycut and loss of hours and debts piling up in that case I had to turn to the social for help so this mean im lazy and dont deserve any help from the government to which I paid my taxes for a good 10 years???? I was offered a social house and took it and the way I saw it is its getting me on the property ladder i might not own it now but i will when im in a financial position to do so. Anyone can apply for social housing just will take longer if your in lesser need of it and your rent is calculated by your pay!!

So if i posted this before i took my house what would people of said....oh get a job or oh your working you should just rent and leave it for the less fortunate people ... who?? the people who wont get up off there arse and look for a job never mind work??? You can work and be less fortunate!

Every person is entitled to help off that sham of a government...I do work and i worked hard to get where i am and whether im working or not i am entitled to that house and at least paying the corporation the money is staying in your community NOT dead money going to a landlord that you will have no come back on!

so judging someone just because they have be offered a council house and has a partner and family is very shallow and all i can say is no wonder our country is in the state its in with people like that living in it!!

wolfpawnat · 24-02-2011 4:14am

Council accommodation, it is seen as a dirty thing in this country. "Sure isn't she from a council estate, they are only dragged up there" is a comment I have heard said about me because of my childhood.

But I knew all of my neighbours, and for the most part you could depend on most of them and the most of them were good, and hard working people! They were all low income jobs so usually my estate would be alive with people going to work early in the day, about 6-7 am, and yes there was the dole spongers who never worked, but they were less frequent than you would think.

My park had 45 houses, and only about 7-8 were occupied by people who were not working!

People in Ireland have got notions of their status compared to those around them these days. Just because you got a 5 bedroomed house for your 3 person family, with a garage, a conservatory, 6 bathrooms and 2 sitting rooms does not mean you are better than anyone else.

Congrats for earning enough to pay for it, but here's something to ask yourself, can you go to your next door neighbour for a cup of tea at 4 in the day and end up staying until about 8 having a good chat and getting fed by them, only to return the deed later that week, because that was my upbringing. We used have the front door slightly ajar when we were home and our friends didn't even have to knock! I am not ashamed of my background and no person on an internet forum is going to make me feel any other way about my life!

daisydais · 24-02-2011 4:36am

I totally agree...I was brought up on a council estate and would not of changed it for the world....my parents took that house with 3 young kids and i have the utmost respect for them and them bringin me up in a council estate made no difference I was still thought about morals value and respect which many ppl on this thread have shown lack off....

The_Conductor · 24-02-2011 8:41am

Graces7 wrote: »

I gather that Cork is the worst place for delays re RA.

Hi- I was talking to a few people working in assessment in Dublin- and they said that parts of Dublin (notably Fingal) have by far the longest lists awaiting assessment in the country at present. What is the story with Cork?

Monife · 24-02-2011 9:59am

daisydais wrote: »

I'm really shocked and surprised at the ignorance of some people on this thread, as people have been saying you dont no what this persons situation is???

I'm a single parent didnt receive any benefits expect child benefit that every mother receives working or not until last year which resulted in me getting a paycut and loss of hours and debts piling up in that case I had to turn to the social for help so this mean im lazy and dont deserve any help from the government to which I paid my taxes for a good 10 years???? I was offered a social house and took it and the way I saw it is its getting me on the property ladder i might not own it now but i will when im in a financial position to do so. Anyone can apply for social housing just will take longer if your in lesser need of it and your rent is calculated by your pay!!

So if i posted this before i took my house what would people of said....oh get a job or oh your working you should just rent and leave it for the less fortunate people ... who?? the people who wont get up off there arse and look for a job never mind work??? You can work and be less fortunate!

Every person is entitled to help off that sham of a government...I do work and i worked hard to get where i am and whether im working or not i am entitled to that house and at least paying the corporation the money is staying in your community NOT dead money going to a landlord that you will have no come back on!

so judging someone just because they have be offered a council house and has a partner and family is very shallow and all i can say is no wonder our country is in the state its in with people like that living in it!!

No one should be entitled to a (pretty much) free house. Rent allowance, possibly. A house to stay in while you get on your feet and pay a portion towards, yes. A FREE house. Enititled. I don't think so. This is what is wrong with our country, people thinking they are entitled to everything. Just because you paid your taxes (like the rest of us I might add) does not entitle you to a free house.

hdowney · 24-02-2011 12:33pm

Monife wrote: »

No one should be entitled to a (pretty much) free house. Rent allowance, possibly. A house to stay in while you get on your feet and pay a portion towards, yes. A FREE house. Enititled. I don't think so. This is what is wrong with our country, people thinking they are entitled to everything. Just because you paid your taxes (like the rest of us I might add) does not entitle you to a free house.

where on gods green earth do you get the notion that the house is FREE!!! you say the poster should possibly be entitled to rent allowance but not this so called free house!!

well. rent allowance is paid to you when you are in private rented accommodation to enable you to pay your landlord to live in the house. some people are on incomes so low that the rent allowance covers all of their rent (surely that is a FREE house too then!! - and don't even start).

living in social housing you pay rent to the local authority who own the house. every week. now the rent may not be as high as it would if you are living in a private rent, but it is the same thing as rent allowance. the reason the rent is lower is because it is like a subsidised rent. you pay what you can afford. so it works out the same as someone living in private rented accommodation and claiming rent allowance.

the poster is NOT living in a FREE house. nothing in this country is free. i think you have a cheek to say that they don't deserve it. if you suddenly found yourself in a position where you needed housing or something similar i am sure you would start on about how you deserve it because you paid taxes for x number of years.

i cannot believe how ignorant and ungrateful, forgetful and bigheaded with an overinflated sense of worth a lot of people in this country have become. there were times when we were as poor as a thirdworld country. workhouses, famine and death. and just because for a few years we seemed to have some good fortune (which turned out to be wrong, we should have still been managing the money) and in turn some people became better off they think they are gods gift and have the right to **** on people less fortunate than them. disgusts me. :mad:

clouds · 24-02-2011 12:41pm

Monife wrote: »

No one should be entitled to a (pretty much) free house. Rent allowance, possibly. A house to stay in while you get on your feet and pay a portion towards, yes. A FREE house. Enititled. I don't think so. This is what is wrong with our country, people thinking they are entitled to everything. Just because you paid your taxes (like the rest of us I might add) does not entitle you to a free house.

God, I'd be embarrassed to comment so smugly on something I know nothing about.

Monife · 24-02-2011 12:44pm

hdowney wrote: »

where on gods green earth do you get the notion that the house is FREE!!! you say the poster should possibly be entitled to rent allowance but not this so called free house!!

well. rent allowance is paid to you when you are in private rented accommodation to enable you to pay your landlord to live in the house. some people are on incomes so low that the rent allowance covers all of their rent (surely that is a FREE house too then!! - and don't even start).

living in social housing you pay rent to the local authority who own the house. every week. now the rent may not be as high as it would if you are living in a private rent, but it is the same thing as rent allowance. the reason the rent is lower is because it is like a subsidised rent. you pay what you can afford. so it works out the same as someone living in private rented accommodation and claiming rent allowance.

the poster is NOT living in a FREE house. nothing in this country is free. i think you have a cheek to say that they don't deserve it. if you suddenly found yourself in a position where you needed housing or something similar i am sure you would start on about how you deserve it because you paid taxes for x number of years.

i cannot believe how ignorant and ungrateful, forgetful and bigheaded with an overinflated sense of worth a lot of people in this country have become. there were times when we were as poor as a thirdworld country. workhouses, famine and death. and just because for a few years we seemed to have some good fortune (which turned out to be wrong, we should have still been managing the money) and in turn some people became better off they think they are gods gift and have the right to **** on people less fortunate than them. disgusts me. :mad:

I did not say it was free, I said it was pretty much free. People in council accomodation pay very little towards the rent. I am not sh**ting on anybody and certainly do not think I am gods gift. I am not that well off either. I am living in a studio and have little or no income after rent and bills to spend on luxuries, like a trip to the cinema or a night out. If I was in a similar situation I would not say that I deserve a pretty much free house but I would pursue same as this country allows you to do so.

I am entitled to my opinion and there is no need to be calling me every name under the sun. I have not called the OP nor anyone on this thread any names.

clouds · 24-02-2011 12:48pm

Monife it's a place to live for a mother and child. What would you do differently?

Squirm · 24-02-2011 1:01pm

Monife wrote: »

No one should be entitled to a (pretty much) free house. Rent allowance, possibly. A house to stay in while you get on your feet and pay a portion towards, yes. A FREE house. Enititled. I don't think so. This is what is wrong with our country, people thinking they are entitled to everything. Just because you paid your taxes (like the rest of us I might add) does not entitle you to a free house.

Sorry Monife, but it is pretty clear that you don't know much about this. Rent Allowance is regularly as large a figure as one would be paying to rent the council house. My cousin, for exampe, recieves E800 per month to rent her apt in Bray, Co. Wicklow. Would it not be preferable that she receive state housing and that her money and the money the State are now saving (as she is no longer in receipt of RA), not go to a landlord but rather go back to the State?!

Also, when you say that the houses are "practically free", what are you basing this on?? Perhaps they are practically free to you, but the rent is means tested based on the inhabitants income. If they receive the dole the rent might be only E30 a month... If they have a job the rent might be E400 a month, so long as it is affordable to that person. What if the difference between someone earning E2000 a month and paying E1000 rent and someone earning E200 a month and paying E100?? It's still 50% of their earnings, do you see where I'm going with this? Wealth is subjective and the value of a euro is not the same to everyone.

Also, when all housing developments MUST include a percentage of social housing (20%), why on earth NOT give these houses to deserving parties??

Would you object to a blind, elderly or disabled person person receiving State assistance? What makes a single mother any more capable of working, if she cannot afford childcare??

Finally, this is a welfare state and PAYE would suggest that you ARE entitles to receive assistance from the State when in need.

This thread is actually beginning to sicken me. I had no idea that we were living in such an ignorant and self-absorbed society.

Monife · 24-02-2011 1:05pm

clouds wrote: »

Monife it's a place to live for a mother and child. What would you do differently?

To be frank, (and I am going to be quite frank and will probably be attacked but tbh I don't give a f**k) I would not let myself get in a situation where I had children and no money. Being with my partner, whoever has the better chance of getting a job, we would search high and low for a job. If I decided to have children, I would make sure I am in a job (with income protection should I lose the job) and have plenty of savings.

Btw, I would love to have children with my fiancé now, would also love a wedding, but we just don't have the money.

Monife · 24-02-2011 1:11pm

Squirm wrote: »

Would you object to a blind, elderly or disabled person person receiving State assistance? What makes a single mother any more capable of working, if she cannot afford childcare??

Finally, this is a welfare state and PAYE would suggest that you ARE entitles to receive assistance from the State when in need.

1. She is not a single mother. She lives with her partner.
2. Yes entitled to assistance when we need it, but not for a life long term. I am all for assistance when in need of it hence why I said that she could be given a council house for a while to give her time to get on her feet, but for life, no I do not believe we should be entitled to that. It just promotes lazy-ness and doesn't give people the proper kick they need to have a bit of ambition to do something with their lives.

sk89 · 24-02-2011 1:15pm

SUZY316 wrote: »

Hello i'm a 33 year old women settled the my partner and 3 kids in waterford, today we got a letter from the council saying we were offered a house , we were delighted until we found out the neighbors:eek:. a single mother/druggie who has wild partys with her 4 kids there plus she has her boyfriend living on the sly with her Who is a career criminal ,No joking this man is scum drug dealer convicted suspect in several shootings and got with stolen guns after breaking into a farmers house . this man is no stranger to jail .:(

So here's my problem's PLEASE/ADVISE ME

1) If i refuse will my rent allowance be taking off me ?

2)Will i get another offer as the is a few house empty at the minute

3) Will i be taken of the list ?

Thank you !

Half of those replys have no idea about social housing and who is entitled to them... in cork you will be offered three houses before you will be put back on the list... I am awaiting a social house I am currently working part time and attending college part time my partner is working full time.. we have one child and work around her with our work and studies... I am entitled to social housing... I know plenty ofpeople that refused their first offer and were offered a better place the second time around.. I also know of people whos offers got worse... I would not accept a house in an area like this.. You will be paying rent on the house and are entitled to raise your children in a nicer area than this one. You will not lose your rent allowance as far as I know... i am not recieving rent allowance at the moment so I wouldn't be sure about that.. as for the other posters who have no idea who this woman is or what her circimstances are stop being so judgemental,,, a lot of people cannot afford to get a mortgage in this current climate.. If you were to find your circumstances change for whatever reason you may also be in need of rent allowance or other such benefits.. in this day an age with the everything that is going on in this country you would think you would be more acceptant and less judgemental.. the woman just asked a question a valid one at that if you were not going to answer the question why reply??? especially when half of yey know nothing about social housing or how the system works...

danbohan · 24-02-2011 1:20pm

Squirm wrote: »

Sorry Monife, but it is pretty clear that you don't know much about this. Rent Allowance is regularly as large a figure as one would be paying to rent the council house. My cousin, for exampe, recieves E800 per month to rent her apt in Bray, Co. Wicklow. Would it not be preferable that she receive state housing and that her money and the money the State are now saving (as she is no longer in receipt of RA), not go to a landlord but rather go back to the State?!

Also, when you say that the houses are "practically free", what are you basing this on?? Perhaps they are practically free to you, but the rent is means tested based on the inhabitants income. If they receive the dole the rent might be only E30 a month... If they have a job the rent might be E400 a month, so long as it is affordable to that person. What if the difference between someone earning E2000 a month and paying E1000 rent and someone earning E200 a month and paying E100?? It's still 50% of their earnings, do you see where I'm going with this? Wealth is subjective and the value of a euro is not the same to everyone.

Also, when all housing developments MUST include a percentage of social housing (20%), why on earth NOT give these houses to deserving parties??

Would you object to a blind, elderly or disabled person person receiving State assistance? What makes a single mother any more capable of working, if she cannot afford childcare??

Finally, this is a welfare state and PAYE would suggest that you ARE entitles to receive assistance from the State when in need.

This thread is actually beginning to sicken me. I had no idea that we were living in such an ignorant and self-absorbed society.

Finally, this is a welfare state and PAYE would suggest that you ARE entitles to receive assistance from the State when in need.

in case you have not noticed this is a bankrupt welfare state heading for default , its also a state paying 2-3x times the welfare rates of our European neighbours , WE CANNOT AFFORD IT any longer , we are exporting 1000+ of our best and brightest every week while our generational welfare scroungers continue to expect cradle to the grave support from the hard pressed taxpayers , if you have worked and contributed then you should get short term support for 2 years , after that it should reduce until after 5 years you get food stamps only , and saying my council house is not entirely suitable for my needs means you get to learn the joys of camping

sbsquarepants · 24-02-2011 1:26pm

Monife wrote: »

To be frank, (and I am going to be quite frank and will probably be attacked but tbh I don't give a f**k) I would not let myself get in a situation where I had children and no money. Being with my partner, whoever has the better chance of getting a job, we would search high and low for a job. If I decided to have children, I would make sure I am in a job (with income protection should I lose the job) and have plenty of savings.

Fúck me! You read some shít on these forums.

Unless you are in a quite extraordinarily privileged position, how can you possibly claim this?
Fair enough you might not have a child unless things are going well workwise and whatnot, but good luck to you finding income protection in todays economic climate, or in fact in any climate, that will last for an 18-20 year timespan. No one knows whats around the corner, you're no exception.
It probably sounded better in your head, but what you've just said is total bollox!

clouds · 24-02-2011 1:27pm

Monife wrote: »

To be frank, (and I am going to be quite frank and will probably be attacked but tbh I don't give a f**k) I would not let myself get in a situation where I had children and no money. Being with my partner, whoever has the better chance of getting a job, we would search high and low for a job. If I decided to have children, I would make sure I am in a job (with income protection should I lose the job) and have plenty of savings.

Btw, I would love to have children with my fiancé now, would also love a wedding, but we just don't have the money.

Are you still a virgin Monife? You must be. I hope someday you'll earn enough to afford sex with the man you love.

How does income protection work then? Does it pay you your wages for ever and ever and ever or however long it is recessions last for? What does 'searching high and low for a job' mean? Is it different to what most people normally do, the paper, the jobs websites, handing round cv's, asking around, registering with agencies?

So what would you do if your fiance tickled you the right way and then f'ked off leaving you with a child? It happens.

D3PO · 24-02-2011 1:37pm

Graces7 wrote: »

I am not asking for "sympathy" so please stop the patronising. And ther eis no "plight": I am no different from thousands of others... My life is fine if limited, as I clearly said. But with any less money?

This is an perfect example of what SMCarrick reffered to when he said peoples expectations of what is a basic standard of living and what is a luxury has been lost recently.

you say you have a limited but fine life but question how you would live with less money. you could perhaps start by getting rid of your internet bill, internet is a luxury that somebody on benefits shouldnt expect to have, as is television, radio etc.

benefits should help, feed, heat, put clothes on somebodies back and a roof over their head. Nothing more.

Its not a snobbory thing its people assuming they should have X,Y, & Z because they think they are entitled.

The_Conductor · 24-02-2011 1:39pm

No need to be getting so personal.........

There are those of us out there who consciously are stopping after 1-2 kids, or not having kids at all, because we can't afford it. Certainly it takes planning- however taking care of children is possibly the biggest responsibility that anyone can ever undertake- and deserves to be planned ahead as best people possibly can.

There will always be unforeseen events- redundancy, ill health etc- that people genuinely cannot see in their futures, until they get walloped with them. In cases like that- certainly there should be help available for a limited period of time to assist the person come to terms with their new situations.

the_syco · 24-02-2011 1:45pm

...and the handbags are out...

SUZY316 wrote: »

we were delighted until we found out the neighbors:eek:. a single mother/druggie who has wild partys with her 4 kids there plus she has her boyfriend living on the sly with her Who is a career criminal ,No joking this man is scum drug dealer convicted suspect in several shootings and got with stolen guns after breaking into a farmers house . this man is no stranger to jail .:(

Who told you all of this? The previous occupant? Someone who wants the house instead of you?

clouds · 24-02-2011 1:45pm

I've said this before and I'll say it again.

EVERYBODY thas a sense of entitlement. TD's think they're entitled to severence pay, and 2 or 3 pensions, for example. WE ALL will take what we can for a comfortable life for ourselves and our children. Human nature. Why is it a big deal when it's those at the lower end of the scale exhibitin g the same nature as everyone else does? should they be somehow more noble, more sacrificing then those better off?

The_Conductor · 24-02-2011 1:46pm

D3PO wrote: »

Its not a snobbory thing its people assuming they should have X,Y, & Z because they think they are entitled.

Exactly.
Even those of us who are in fulltime employment may not have the opportunity to go out, to smoke, to drink, to have Sky subscriptions, to have a new car, to have private healthcare etc......

When the going gets tough- people need to sit down and prioritise. What is a basic necessity, what is a need, what is a want? Just because folk are used to getting what they wanted either handed to them, or were in a position to satisfy those wants from their incomes- does not mean their 'wants' are entitlements, on the contrary- fulfilling some 'wants' can be entirely counter productive.

I don't know whether people heard the interview on Radio 1 yesterday- where there were a number of supermarket employees talking about handing in their notice, as they don't see why they should work when they're no better off than on social welfare- and if they were on social welfare they'd also get a medical card........ Something is seriously wrong there.........

clouds wrote: »

Why is it a big deal when it's those at the lower end of the scale exhibitin g the same nature as everyone else does? should they be somehow more noble, more sacrificing then those better off?

Why do you imagine that those at the lower end of the scale are being treated in a manner worse that those in employment? Quite simply- they're not. Those on social welfare and pensioners- have been relatively insulated from the crap that is flying around. Sure- 'bonus' payments at Christmas were cancelled- and there were some limited reductions in benefits- but if you compare this to the manner in which the net take-home-pay of an average person has been savaged- you'd be relieved that you haven't been affected in a similar manner.

The_Conductor · 24-02-2011 1:52pm

clouds wrote: »

EVERYBODY thas a sense of entitlement. TD's think they're entitled to severence pay, and 2 or 3 pensions, for example. WE ALL will take what we can for a comfortable life for ourselves and our children. Human nature. Why is it a big deal when it's those at the lower end of the scale exhibitin g the same nature as everyone else does? should they be somehow more noble, more sacrificing then those better off?

The simple fact of the matter is- regardless of people's sense of entitlement- we're spending 16 billion a year (totally ignoring the banks etc) more than we're getting in taxation. We, as a nation, cannot afford to satisfy anyone's sense of entitlement- from the top or from the bottom.

Things are not going to be about comfort in future here- they are going to be about- putting a roof over our heads and food on our tables. The roof will be whatever is available- and the food will be healthy- but by god all the frills that everyone is used to- will fall by the wayside........

Its all well and good to bitch and moan about how the taxpayers are bailing out the banks- and so the taxpayers are- however the fact of the matter is that even if the bankers were out of the equation altogether- we, as a country, have totally lost the run of ourselves.

D3PO · 24-02-2011 2:02pm

smccarrick wrote: »

Exactly.
Even those of us who are in fulltime employment may not have the opportunity to go out, to smoke, to drink, to have Sky subscriptions, to have a new car, to have private healthcare etc......

.

exactly. As taxes have increased etc. many have had to make financial decisions to cut their cloth to size.

That is what people expect of those on benefits also. Your not insulated from having a reduction in your living standards any more than I or anybody else is provided you still have the basics covered (food, clothes, heat, housing)

clouds · 24-02-2011 2:10pm

Smmcarrick, the numbers are one thing and they speak for themselves. They don't lie. There NEEDS to be reform of the welfare system of course there does.
My point is why the horrible snide sneery tone from so many about those who are worse off? That's what maddens me. That horrible gleeful scorn and sense of superiority. Can't let it go, I'm afraid.

Re the savaging of the average worker. I know all about it. I've been made redundant once this recession, no redundancy pay there only 23 months. Got a part time job, got let go, got another job at 60% pay of my original job, not in what I studied for, now hours being cut there. Luckily my partner still works and has suffered nothing worse than the new taxes and no question of a pay rise. We have a (4 yr old! ha) mortgage and children. I don't need to be told about the plight of the ordinary private sector worker.

But it doesn't blind me to other peoples difficulties. I don't think they're lazy & unambitious, who shouldn't have sex in case they conceive and whose kids aren't worthy of protection from scumbags.

speedboatchase · 24-02-2011 2:30pm

clouds wrote: »

God, I'd be embarrassed to comment so smugly on something I know nothing about.

Good thing your reply wasn't 10x as smug then, eh? :rolleyes:

clouds · 24-02-2011 2:33pm

--I deleted this because I was being a b!tch-- Sorry!

Assassin saphir · 24-02-2011 3:23pm

My partner and i are in full time employment and cannot afford to have kids but would love to some day, however as tax payers we are expected pay for people who bring kids into this world with no thought as to how they are going to house/feed or clothe them.....people who cannot afford to have kids should learn about contraception!
I know of 2 single women who had kids to get a council house, they are out every weekend and took their kids to Disneyland while my partner and i work 90+ hrs per week to keep them in the lifestyle they're entilted to....! where is the fairness in this?

PS i interviewed people for positions last week and 2 of them told me in the interview that it wasn't worth their while and they'd be better of on the dole. The start rate is almost €10 per hr. I also had one who had been on the dole for years told me he didn't do "manual work":mad:

clouds · 24-02-2011 3:28pm

Skittles I just can't see how you can't afford to have kids on 2 wages. Your job sounds fairly senior if you're interviewing people. Can you explain a bit more of what you mean?

I just got offer council house from hell !

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