Tall ship Astrid hits rocks off Cork coast

beer enigma · 24-07-2013 12:44pm #1

Hearing reports that the Astrid has hit rocks west of Kinsale and is sinking with 30 people on board, rescue services attending.

the beer revolu · 24-07-2013 2:02pm

All aboard safely rescued, thankfully.
Now lets hope the ship can be saved.
Engine failure I believe.

fergal.b · 24-07-2013 2:08pm

Very sad to see.

the beer revolu · 24-07-2013 2:11pm

I guess it's not going to be saved:mad:

Where did you find that pic ?- I couldn't find any pics or info on condition of ship.

calnand · 24-07-2013 2:11pm

I've heard the boat it taking quite a beating against The rocks, hopefully it will be salvageable. The left emer and naval divers are on their way and they already have placed extra pumps On board. My brother was sailing the spirit of Oysterhaven past there last night and said the swell was unreal, 4m+.
Edit: now seeing that pic it's definitely lost, sad to see another sail training vessel sink.

fergal.b · 24-07-2013 2:15pm

the beer revolu wrote: »

I guess it's not going to be saved:mad:

Where did you find that pic ?- I couldn't find any pics or info on condition of ship.

I got it from Oceanaddicts Dive Liveaboard https://www.facebook.com/OceanaddictsDiveLiveaboard

Skuxx · 24-07-2013 3:24pm

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=zuLc3bi-AvQ

Very sad....sailed on her during Tall Ships 2009! Lots of Irish onboard at the moment in connection with the Gathering Festival!

beer enigma · 24-07-2013 5:15pm

Apparently coast guards noticed the ship take a sudden unusual turn towards land and enabled them to launch even before they had all the details.

Tis was taken from the AIS site just after the ship struck.

Oink · 24-07-2013 5:25pm

Glad to hear all are safe. Still it'd break your heart to see her under the waves like that...

fergal.b · 24-07-2013 5:26pm

It seems to have been engine failure along with bad weather http://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/30-rescued-from-distressed-tall-ship-in-major-operation-off-cork-coast-601548.html

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Skuxx · 24-07-2013 5:29pm

Oink wrote: »

Glad to hear all are safe. Still it'd break your heart to see her under the waves like that...

Absolutely!! I was only talking to the Captain last week with the hope of meeting up with him and Astrid while they were here!
Such horrible news!

calnand · 24-07-2013 6:04pm

My brother was meant to be on the spirit of Oysterhaven today but he decided to go to Dublin instead, he missed out on a very action packed day. From what I've heard is that they were raising some sails just before the engine broke, one of the ribs tried to tow it to safety but in the swell and wind it was inevitable that it would hit the rocks.

fergal.b · 24-07-2013 7:15pm

Another video from the RNLI. Great job by all involved.

HeidiHeidi · 24-07-2013 7:21pm

fergal.b wrote: »

Another video from the RNLI. Great job by all involved.

Well done indeed to all concerned - could have all ended so differently.

Going by what various spokespersons said, the evacuation/abandon ship went like clockwork - full marks to the permanent crew of the ship. And the young passengers of course.

Bouncing around and getting transferred into and out of liferafts in those seas can't have been a pleasant experience :eek: (although I did hear quite a few references to 4m seas....doesn't look anything like that bad in the videos I've seen..... still rather them than me though!)

fergal.b · 24-07-2013 11:19pm

Wow.. I'd say that was quite scary and a very close call.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9DGJC9uFjn0

Stheno · 25-07-2013 12:11am

One report I read quoted a member of crew saying ""There were a few attempts to get the ship back off them but that wasn't going to work. I only realised the ship was in real trouble when the life jackets started getting handed out."

Now I'm only new to sailing, but surely on a boat with trainee/aspiring sailors, it shouldn't be the case that lifejackets are only handed out when a ship is in "real trouble"?

I'm very happy that no one was hurt, great work by the rescue services.

beer enigma · 25-07-2013 12:50am

fergal.b wrote: »

Wow.. I'd say that was quite scary and a very close call.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9DGJC9uFjn0

Very young crew members ! Fair dues to the senior people on board& as ever the local coastguard and rescue services

miss no stars · 25-07-2013 9:07am

Stheno wrote: »

One report I read quoted a member of crew saying ""There were a few attempts to get the ship back off them but that wasn't going to work. I only realised the ship was in real trouble when the life jackets started getting handed out."

Now I'm only new to sailing, but surely on a boat with trainee/aspiring sailors, it shouldn't be the case that lifejackets are only handed out when a ship is in "real trouble"?

I'm very happy that no one was hurt, great work by the rescue services.

On a ship that size, settling in for a longish cruise in warm weather during daylight hours, I'd say it's fairly normal not to have lifejackets on the whole time. Even on yachts about 30ft+ for longer treks lifejackets are usually only worn if the weather's bad or at night or if you're the only person on deck.

Maybe they were a little late handing them out? I dunno, we'll probably hear from the experienced crew in due course when the investigation happens?

Tabnabs · 25-07-2013 9:35am

Lifejackets such as these are very bulky and awkward to work in. The crew will have been working flat out to survey and resolve the situation and only after careful consideration and deliberation with his crew will the Captain order lifejackets to be brought out and worn by all onboard. Textbook procedure and evacuation, top marks to the Captain and crew.

darksideboo · 25-07-2013 11:27am

Well done to all the emergency services , both paid and volunteers who took part in yesterdays drama .

Just shows how the training does pay off.

Just one little question , if the survivors had been fishermen or commercial sailors would they have been given the same treatment by the local yacht clubs . couldnt help noticeing the " Occents " on those interviewed on the TV .
??????

the beer revolu · 25-07-2013 11:40am

darksideboo wrote: »

Just one little question , if the survivors had been fishermen or commercial sailors would they have been given the same treatment by the local yacht clubs . couldnt help noticeing the " Occents " on those interviewed on the TV .
??????

Are you a snob?
Do you prejudge people because of their accent or where they're from?
That's what snobs do.

Nice first post!
Welcome to boards, I hope you've the correct accent.

fergal.b · 25-07-2013 11:43am

darksideboo wrote: »

Well done to all the emergency services , both paid and volunteers who took part in yesterdays drama .

Just shows how the training does pay off.

Just one little question , if the survivors had been fishermen or commercial sailors would they have been given the same treatment by the local yacht clubs . couldnt help noticeing the " Occents " on those interviewed on the TV .
??????

I'd say the fact that most of them were just kids learning the ropes and not harden seamen warrants special treatment but I'm sure any yacht club would do their best to help anyone in need no matter who they are.

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miss no stars · 25-07-2013 11:43am

darksideboo wrote: »

fishermen or commercial sailors would they have been given the same treatment by the local yacht clubs . couldnt help noticeing the " Occents " on those interviewed on the TV .
??????

For starters, I can't imagine a sailing club ignoring a vessel and/or its crew in need. In fact, the number one thing is that you assist any vessel in distress in whatever way you can (without yourself becoming a vessel in distress, ideally!) I'm sure they would of course step up and try and provide anything the local fishing/commercial sea-goers couldn't like hot showers and meals and a bed for the night. But surely if it was a fishing boat in distress, the most natural thing would be for the fishing community to look after them afterwards?

This was a case where sailors from a sailing vessel got into distress and were rescued. Makes sense that the local sailing community would provide what they could, doesn't it?

I'm sorry if I'm coming across unduely harsh. I just can't stand the quite unjustified idea that all sailors are very posh snotty people who won't deign to mucky themselves by associating with anyone other than the mega-rich established sailors. In reality you'll find most sailing clubs are incredibly welcoming and committed to making the sport accessible (although as with anything, there's always one...). You'll also find that most clubs do fairly consistent fundraising (as well as providing facilities for others to hold fundraising events) for the RNLI, who respond to distress calls from anyone at sea.

But it's nice to know you'll make that kind of an assumption based on an accent. Cheers.

Tabnabs · 25-07-2013 11:46am

The boat was taking part in an Irish Sailing Association cruise (The Gathering Cruise) and I understand they were lining up for some sort of photocall. Hence the large number of yachts and boats in the immediate vicinity.

vicwatson · 25-07-2013 3:12pm

Once again it's incidents like this that highlight the brilliance and necessity of the voluntary RNLI men and women.

Don't forget to support your local RNLI station.

Well done the Coastguard too.

BailMeOut · 25-07-2013 3:25pm

taken today.

fergal.b · 25-07-2013 3:53pm

I had to laugh at your username and the photo.:D

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VinLieger · 25-07-2013 4:22pm

darksideboo wrote: »

Just one little question , if the survivors had been fishermen or commercial sailors would they have been given the same treatment by the local yacht clubs . couldnt help noticeing the " Occents " on those interviewed on the TV .
??????

Yes cus if people hear a distress call on the radio instead of dropping everything and going to assist the boat in trouble they actually question whether they should cus they might not be rich enough or have the right "occents" to board the boat..... get your head out of your ass.
Anyone who sails or has anything to do with the water will tell you the second you hear a distress call you go to help in any way you can while ensuring you also dont end up in need of rescue. Pity the same doesnt apply on land and you regularly hear stories of people being assaulted in broad daylight while people walk by pretending not to notice.

Also couldnt help noticing the massive chip on your shoulder and the uninformed assumptions you make about people you obviously know nothing about

darksideboo · 25-07-2013 6:25pm

just to reply , to the many people who appear to have picked up my response incorrectly . IF you actually read my post you will see that I and everyone else are full of praise and admiration for those that were part of the rescue and the medical care of the survivors involved .
That was carried out by professional people be they volunteers or are paid to do that job function.

The Mummies and the luvvies in the Yacht clubs didnt save them .

yiddo59 · 25-07-2013 6:38pm

BailMeOut wrote: »

taken today.

Great pic. How do I get there to take pics from land?

vicwatson · 25-07-2013 6:55pm

Forgive me if it sounds like a stoopid question but is this ship salvageable you think? Will cost a lot methinks, maybe more than the worth (although it has nostalgia and history which cannot be bought)

fergal.b · 25-07-2013 7:18pm

darksideboo wrote: »

just to reply , to the many people who appear to have picked up my response incorrectly . IF you actually read my post you will see that I and everyone else are full of praise and admiration for those that were part of the rescue and the medical care of the survivors involved .
That was carried out by professional people be they volunteers or are paid to do that job function.

The Mummies and the luvvies in the Yacht clubs didnt save them .

Quit with the trolling or you will be sent back to the darkside.

.

calnand · 25-07-2013 7:33pm

yiddo59 wrote: »

Great pic. How do I get there to take pics from land?

Head from summercove past Charles fort and take the first right and continue down this road. Be sure to ask for permission before you start crossing through fields and be carefully not to get too close to the clifftop.

Conchir · 25-07-2013 7:55pm

It's a real shame to see a tall ship sink, such history and such a great vessel.

Yesterday I put mixed petrol into the 4 stroke rib for instructing but after seeing this it sort of put it into perspective :pac:

yiddo59 · 25-07-2013 8:51pm

calnand wrote: »

Head from summercove past Charles fort and take the first right and continue down this road. Be sure to ask for permission before you start crossing through fields and be carefully not to get too close to the clifftop.

Thanks very much. Might take a trip down there tomorrow.

BailMeOut · 25-07-2013 8:58pm

yiddo59 wrote: »

Thanks very much. Might take a trip down there tomorrow.

Best way to see it would be from a boat and there is a really good boat rental company at the Trident Hotel. see http://www.kinsaleboathire.ie/. I am going to head out this week with my kids.

fergal.b · 25-07-2013 9:08pm

I don't think the cliff would be the safest place to go and have a look and would hate to hear of another rescue going on there one slip and you might be getting a closer look than you hoped for :eek:

Photo from https://www.facebook.com/TheSouthernStarWestCork

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PhoenixParker · 25-07-2013 10:25pm

Mummies and luuvies in a yacht club?
He's clearly never been in a yacht club.

Sailing in Ireland isn't for the faint hearted.
It's generally involves hard work while getting wet, cold and covered in bruises.
It's a heck of a lot of fun, but it's not glamorous in the slightest and it doesn't attract the sort of people who are concerned with looking perfect at all (any . . .) times. Except for those sailing the smallest dinghies, every sailor is also a member of a team, and won't hold their position long if they're not the sort of person who is constantly keeping an eye out for what needs to be done, and making sure it gets done.

Now granted there are many members of yacht clubs who don't actually sail, and they may fall into the mummies and luuvies bracket somewhat, but the vast majority are practical people who enjoy a physical challenge.

Anyone not assisting fellow mariners in distress would never be able to show their face at the yacht club again. The idea that help would be offered or withheld based on someone's accent or background would be hilarious, except that it illustrates the mis-perceptions people have about the sailing community.

25-07-2013 11:02pm

Went out to the wreck today in a RIB. The navy are patrolling it and you can't get any closer than 200m.

EhBenDisDonc · 25-07-2013 11:59pm

Well done to everyone who welcomed crew into their homes last night.

Míshásta · 26-07-2013 9:48am

Well done to everyone involved in the successful rescue.

BUT WHY IS NO ONE ASKING THE QUESTION WHY SUCH AN ACCIDENT HAPPENED IN THE FIRST PLACE?

All of the reporting I have heard or read concentrates on the rescue. The Examiner's coverage is very disappointing.

Is it true that the Astrid had already had engine trouble?

Should she have sailed knowing that there were strong winds blowing onshore?

Should she have had a local pilot with knowledge of local hazards?

Should a tug or at least a boat with a strong engine been in attendance?

Were unnecessary risks taken just to keep to the timetable of leading a flotilla into Kinsale at a predetermined time?

Why are the media not asking questions of nautical experts and marine surveyors about the incident?

Now I must add I'm not an experienced sailor - so maybe some of my questions may get a sharp retort from some of the more experienced mariners here. But they are questions that are being raised locally.

Tabnabs · 26-07-2013 9:52am

Míshásta wrote: »

Why are the media not asking questions of nautical experts and marine surveyors about the incident?

Because it's not the job of the media to investigate the matter. The right people to do this are the Marine Casualty Investigation Board and they were mobilised the day of the sinking.

EhBenDisDonc · 26-07-2013 10:03am

Agree with Tabnabs. These are all good questions that people are certainly asking privately. But media speculation is not helpful in these situations, except perhaps in the specialised press, and the MAIB report will be thorough and publicly reported.

LiamoSail · 26-07-2013 10:10am

I don't know the area, but was it a case that she sailed unnecessarily close to coast, thus reducing the time she had to get out of difficulty when she lost the main engine?

Also, I haven't seen any reference to her trying to drop the anchor, only references to trying to get a tow. Did she drop the hook at all anyone know?

BailMeOut · 26-07-2013 10:21am

some more info in the indo

he Marine Casualty Investigation Board's probe will focus on the ship's course, the condition of its diesel fuel and its engine.

The strong tides and a 30-knot wind were also instrumental in preventing the crew from saving the stricken brig.

After the engine failure, Captain de Kam ordered extra sails to be raised and issued a mayday alert.

However, the ship was about 1km from a rocky headland and was quickly driven by currents and winds on to cliffs.

'Heartbroken' captain to assist inquiry into sinking of 'Astrid'

I wonder was it sailing inside or outside of the Sovereign Island on its way into the harbour?

Tabnabs · 26-07-2013 11:23am

Interesting press release from Sail Training Ireland (http://www.irishsailtraining.com/Portals/3/News/Media%20Reports/Dutch%20Tall%20Ship%20Astrid%2025th%20July%20-%20Press%20Release.pdf)

The Dutch Tall Ship Astrid was on a voyage from Southampton to Cherbourg calling in to Kinsale. On board were 23 trainees from France, Ireland, the Netherlands, UK and Spain. The crew was from Belgium and the captain, Pieter de Kam was from the Netherlands. As the Astrid was leaving Oysterhaven, as part of The Gathering Cruise parade of sail in to Kinsale, the vessel experienced engine failure, and found herself drifting onto a lee-shore. Not being able to turn without power, she ran aground.

They notified a nearby RIB which was being helmed by ISA (Irish Sailing Association) CEO Harry Hermon. The RIB attempted to take a line from Astrid however due to the onshore winds and swell this was not possible.

Captain de Kam issued a May Day. The ISA RIB and the yachts in The Gathering Cruise flotilla stood by until the RNLI arrived. There was a safe rescue of all 30 crew who were brought to Kinsale on board the yacht Spirit of Oysterhaven and the lifeboat. All crew were brought to Kinsale Yacht Club where they were provided with showers, food and dry clothing. They were all medically checked and are in good health.

Míshásta · 26-07-2013 11:26am

They had been at a BBQ organised by the Oysterhaven Centre the previous evening. They were leaving Oysterhaven bound Kinsale.

"The Oysterhaven Centre is hosting a barbecue this Tuesday evening and the boats led by the Spirit of Oysterhaven will sail in company in to Kinsale Harbour midday Wednesday"

http://www.southernstar.ie/News/The-Gathering-Cruise-rallies-in-Kinsale-this-Wednesday-July-24th-23072013.htm

The media always speculate as to the reasons for accidents - road, rail or sea. I don't see how this is any different.

The Crosbies of the Examiner have always been involved in sailing. Why don't they ask their friends in the RCYC?

26-07-2013 11:37am

They sailed inside the Sovereigns. I think the Captain probably cut the corner too much leaving him little time to react in case of engine trouble. With a strong tide and onshore wind he really should have went outside the Sovereigns. Since it was a tall ship putting up the sails would have been very slow and they don't beat very well (sail upwind which was required on the day due to the wind direction). A tug or pilot with local knowledge should not have been necessary. The captain should be well capable of assessing the wind, tide and navigational hazards in relation to his vessels maneuverability and make a safe passage plan from these factors.

Stheno · 26-07-2013 11:55am

Astrid unlikely to be repaired as a sailing training vessel

IT reporting that it will be salvaged, but unlikely to ever sail as a training ship again as the cost of repairs is very high

Míshásta · 26-07-2013 12:16pm

MAXFANTANA wrote: »

They sailed inside the Sovereigns. I think the Captain probably cut the corner too much leaving him little time to react in case of engine trouble. With a strong tide and onshore wind he really should have went outside the Sovereigns. Since it was a tall ship putting up the sails would have been very slow and they don't beat very well (sail upwind which was required on the day due to the wind direction). A tug or pilot with local knowledge should not have been necessary. The captain should be well capable of assessing the wind, tide and navigational hazards in relation to his vessels maneuverability and make a safe passage plan from these factors.

Thanks for that info. Maxfantana.

Tim the Enchanter · 26-07-2013 12:26pm

A very eerie photo of her from the IT website.

Tall ship Astrid hits rocks off Cork coast

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