Fixing bolts / what size ? 3x2 timber

2012paddy2012 · 22-05-2020 9:06pm #1

Hi I want to cover over the side entrance with Perspex

I’m going to fix lengths of 3x2 to the house wall and to the concrete wall at the side entrance .

The fixing bolts I am wondering what exact type bolts I should use. The timber is 3 x2 I want to fix the lengths securely .

If possible to add “ link” as I want to call to Woodies and just pick up exactly what I need ..

Regards

Paddy

mickdw · 22-05-2020 9:09pm

Whats perplex?

Fann Linn · 22-05-2020 9:10pm

mickdw wrote: »

Whats perplex?

Perspex??

T-Maxx · 22-05-2020 9:16pm

I'm sorry OP - not being a wise ass here - but if you ask something like this I don't know whether you should attempt this.

Pataman · 22-05-2020 9:24pm

3x2 is very big for perspex.
I have 2x1 rough treated timber on mine.
Use frame fixers to fit the batons to the wall

Pataman · 22-05-2020 9:25pm

T-Maxx wrote: »

I'm sorry OP - not being a wise ass here - but if you ask something like this I don't know whether you should attempt this.

Probably a typo and everyone has to learn and start somewhere

2012paddy2012 · 22-05-2020 9:48pm

Pataman wrote: »

3x2 is very big for perspex.
I have 2x1 rough treated timber on mine.
Use frame fixers to fit the batons to the wall

Ok cool , that’s grand will do. Frame fixers I have on list ! Thanks for helpful reply.

Probably any regular wall bolts will do the trick .

I just want to get the 2x1 onto house wall and side wall , level and secure first. I’ll be back !

Just a simple cover over to keep few things in it is what I’m doing , thks

2012paddy2012 · 22-05-2020 9:50pm

mickdw wrote: »

Whats perplex?

Perspex is a form of acrylic plastic that starts out as a liquid and is then formed into a strong plastic. ... Initially used to make windows for submarines and cars, acrylic sheets now have a variety of alternative uses (including construction, engineering and even photography).

2012paddy2012 · 22-05-2020 9:51pm

Fann Linn wrote: »

Perspex??

What’s that !? Thanks for taking time to read post and answer with helpful reply.

2012paddy2012 · 22-05-2020 9:52pm

T-Maxx wrote: »

I'm sorry OP - not being a wise ass here - but if you ask something like this I don't know whether you should attempt this.

It’s only a few pieces of timber on two walls , few bolts and a level , not rocket science , but helpful tips are most welcome , should you have anything , it would be appreciated , thank you

Fann Linn · 22-05-2020 9:52pm

2012paddy2012 wrote: »

What’s that !? Thanks for taking time to read post and answer with helpful reply.

If you read the thread you'd see that I was replying to Mickd who asked 'perplex'.

2012paddy2012 · 22-05-2020 9:53pm

Pataman wrote: »

Probably a typo and everyone has to learn and start somewhere

Great to see common sense , this type of trolling is new to me and a little sad , anyhow , lot of free time at mo !!!!

2012paddy2012 · 22-05-2020 9:54pm

Fann Linn wrote: »

If you read the thread you'd see that I was replying to Mickd who asked 'perplex'.

Well if you can’t guess what it is , in the context of the tread , I wonder ... thanks

Class MayDresser · 22-05-2020 9:56pm

This thread is perplexing. It's a running thing in DIY, youre not the first, and won't be the last/

Paddy, Frame fixers more than adequate. 3*2's plenty enough to carry the perspex.

2012paddy2012 · 22-05-2020 9:59pm

Class MayDresser wrote: »

This thread is perplexing.

Paddy, Frame fixers more than adequate. 3*2's plenty enough to carry the perspex.

Tis. That’s the type of advice I’m after.
Really appreciate it.
I’ll be back for a few thought , when I’ve that done
...next issue will be just cutting the slight off angle of timber to go across ....
for another day !!!!

wizardman · 22-05-2020 10:10pm

Would you not get the guy back who did your lean to?

2012paddy2012 · 22-05-2020 10:15pm

wizardman wrote: »

Would you not get the guy back who did your lean to?

Lol I was up on it , today putting more bolts on and added three new timber barons .... he was a joke ...

I’ll manage meself , thanks ðŸ™Builders pretending to be builders too many of them around ... we need trading standards here like in uk ... round up the cowboys ....

wizardman · 22-05-2020 10:22pm

Wasn't a tradesman that did that.. A handyman or DIY Dave

mickdw · 22-05-2020 10:25pm

2012paddy2012 wrote: »

Lol I was up on it , today putting more bolts on and added three new timber barons .... he was a joke ...

I’ll manage meself , thanks ðŸ™Builders pretending to be builders too many of them around ... we need trading standards here like in uk ... round up the cowboys ....

Ya there are no cowboys at all in uk.

2012paddy2012 · 22-05-2020 10:25pm

wizardman wrote: »

Wasn't a tradesman that did that.. A handyman or DIY Dave

Well he has a big sign writing on his van. He describes himself as a builder . That’s a fact .

I might stick” PADDYS BUILDERS” on my yoke and do a few botch jobs , chances of me being brought to book / NILL ... you live and learn , indeed

2012paddy2012 · 22-05-2020 10:26pm

mickdw wrote: »

Ya there are no cowboys at all in uk.

I wouldn’t agree. At least some are prosecuted. Respect your opinion tho

wizardman · 22-05-2020 10:34pm

2012paddy2012 wrote: »

Well he has a big sign writing on his van. He describes himself as a builder . That’s a fact .

I might stick” PADDYS BUILDERS” on my yoke and do a few botch jobs , chances of me being brought to book / NILL ... you live and learn , indeed

I think Paddy did do it

2012paddy2012 · 23-05-2020 6:54am

wizardman wrote: »

I think Paddy did do it

He should have !

Calahonda52 · 23-05-2020 7:35am

I would use express nails, 10 or 12mm at 300-400 centres, length will depend on wall/wall finish, you need to have 40mm grip in the block.
pre drill the timber with a slightly bigger drill, so 11 mm for the 10 mm, much easier to drive them home

2012paddy2012 · 23-05-2020 9:17am

Calahonda52 wrote: »

I would use express nails, 10 or 12mm at 300-400 centres, length will depend on wall/wall finish, you need to have 40mm grip in the block.
pre drill the timber with a slightly bigger drill, so 11 mm for the 10 mm, much easier to drive them home

Ok sounds good , thanks for that

GinSoaked · 23-05-2020 9:30am

Calahonda52 wrote: »

I would use express nails, 10 or 12mm at 300-400 centres, length will depend on wall/wall finish, you need to have 40mm grip in the block.
pre drill the timber with a slightly bigger drill, so 11 mm for the 10 mm, much easier to drive them home

This arrangement sounds a bit temporary. The perspex will have a limited life span anyway so I'd use fixings that would be easier to remove than express nails and that didn't leave any metal in the wall if they did have to be removed. So I'd consider frame fixers with screw bolts and washers and leave the bolt heads exposed. Just to make sure they come out later I'd even put a smear of grease on the threads. Probably M8 x 100 or 120mm depending on which face of the 3x2 was against the wall.

2012paddy2012 · 23-05-2020 9:34am

GinSoaked wrote: »

This arrangement sounds a bit temporary. The perspex will have a limited life span anyway so I'd use fixings that would be easier to remove than express nails and that didn't leave any metal in the wall if they did have to be removed. So I'd consider frame fixers with screw bolts and washers and leave the bolt heads exposed. Just to make sure they come out later I'd even put a smear of grease on the threads. Probably M8 x 100 or 120mm depending on which face of the 3x2 was against the wall.

Thank you , I’m really looking for a cover that is handy enough to fit onto batons that will keep the rain out ... Perspex seems the job , is there any handy alternative

Leftyflip · 23-05-2020 9:40am

This is what you want, drill a 6mm pilot hole through the wood and wall, and drive these home. They'll fix the wood solidly and can be easily removed if needs be.

GinSoaked · 23-05-2020 9:46am

2012paddy2012 wrote: »

Thank you , I’m really looking for a cover that is handy enough to fit onto batons that will keep the rain out ... Perspex seems the job , is there any handy alternative

Not really. Perspex will be fine for ten years but it does scratch, eventually discolours and gets brittle. What I'd do is find out what brand you can buy locally and then check up on the specs. I suspect there are some brands that have better quality sheets that aren't affected by UV as quickly.

Twin Wall Polycarbonate Sheets might be another option but they are primarily used for roofing and don't look right when used for walls. Twin wall suffers from other issues as you can get mold in the sections.

Link to compare Polycarbonate Sheet and Perspex https://industrialplastics.com.au/perspex-sheet-vs-polycarbonate/

2012paddy2012 · 23-05-2020 10:40am

I was going to just timber from between each concrete pillar to avoid any awkwardness.

ideally if i could run beyond the one near side entrance gate that would look better , i don't fancy it , as it is simple enough i think to secure timber to house wall and under lip of diving house walls , as its quite high , as a matter of interest is it handy enough to cut a a sheet to go around a pillar ? onto a made up piece i could secure to pillar?!

photo seems sideways after compressing it to attach !!sorry

GinSoaked · 23-05-2020 10:49am

Is this for a wall or a roof?

2012paddy2012 · 23-05-2020 10:55am

from the side wall of the house to the dividing wall (side entrance)

Just a query , probably don't intend to do it .....it was handy enough to cut perspex to fix to go round concrete pillar , i might give it a bash for a nicer finish doesn't really matter ,

thks

paddy

2012paddy2012 · 27-05-2020 5:47pm

went at it earlier , using ,8 x 100 hammer fixings..
so , on the concrete wall , the fixings went in , one out of three , fitted
securely.

using 8 mill masonary bit with 8 mm hammer fixings does not work.

On the house wall , same thing , bit went in about an inch and hollow , so waste
of time there also.

Im now wondering whats the best rawlplug /screw to use to attach timber batton to the side wall of a concrete built house and dividing wall.

GinSoaked · 27-05-2020 5:56pm

I use frame frame fixers every time.

31akhGVPoAL._AC_.jpg

Just get something that gives you at least 50mm in the wall plus the depth of the timber.

2012paddy2012 · 27-05-2020 6:21pm

GinSoaked wrote: »

I use frame frame fixers every time.

Just get something that gives you at least 50mm in the wall plus the depth of the timber.

That’s them ... I drilled into the timber, with 8 mm masonary bit , marked the wall. Put a bit of tape on drill bit the length of the plastic part , to ensure that I didn’t over drill the length of it.

That wasn’t necessary as the bit went all the way in as the brick is hollow.

I then put through the frame fiixer. and tapped it in to place . One secure , next loose , two bent while I was hammering in. The hole in the wall was lined up directly with the timber ... I don’t know after that.

I need some sort of raw plug that will expand into hollow part of the wall when an appropriated sized screw is fitted

GinSoaked · 27-05-2020 6:34pm

Don't hammer them in. Tap them until they stop going in then screw them the rest of the way. I always over drill the holes and make them deeper than needed by about 20mm.

2012paddy2012 · 27-05-2020 8:25pm

GinSoaked wrote: »

Don't hammer them in. Tap them until they stop going in then screw them the rest of the way. I always over drill the holes and make them deeper than needed by about 20mm.

Ok just to that point I’ll try one or two again ... when I drilled into the side wall of the house , the drill bit went straight in it’s obviously hollow an inch in .... do you think the fixer will tighten sufficiently if I screw it in rather than tap it in ? Thks

GinSoaked · 27-05-2020 9:29pm

If you have only got 25mm of grip then I'd use a frame fixer that was 25mm + timber thickness +15mm to go inside the hollow section. You need to get the expanding section of the plug inside solid section of the wall.

iamtony · 27-05-2020 9:34pm

2012paddy2012 wrote: »

Tis. That’s the type of advice I’m after.
Really appreciate it.
I’ll be back for a few thought , when I’ve that done
...next issue will be just cutting the slight off angle of timber to go across ....
for another day !!!!

Dont mind smart arses. Its a simple job and your on a diy forum.
Unless you already have perspex or something id use polycarbonate sheets. You can get them cut to size and they would look better.

Edit: didnt see two other pages after that message hopefully you've got good advice

2012paddy2012 · 28-05-2020 10:43am

iamtony wrote: »

Dont mind smart arses. Its a simple job and your on a diy forum.
Unless you already have perspex or something id use polycarbonate sheets. You can get them cut to size and they would look better.

Edit: didnt see two other pages after that message hopefully you've got good advice

That sounds much better idea , nice comment and helpful ... your spot on I’ve one side done I’ll look into polycarbonate cheers

iamtony · 28-05-2020 10:59am

2012paddy2012 wrote: »

went at it earlier , using ,8 x 100 hammer fixings..
so , on the concrete wall , the fixings went in , one out of three , fitted
securely.

using 8 mill masonary bit with 8 mm hammer fixings does not work.

On the house wall , same thing , bit went in about an inch and hollow , so waste
of time there also.

Im now wondering whats the best rawlplug /screw to use to attach timber batton to the side wall of a concrete built house and dividing wall.

It should work, ive came across problems like this when trying to use a cheap masonary bit in a cheap drill. You would be much better off with a good sds hammer drill if your already using one then ignore this message.
Do you find yourself wrestling with the drill to get it to go through?

2012paddy2012 · 28-05-2020 11:08am

iamtony wrote: »

It should work, ive came across problems like this when trying to use a cheap masonary bit in a cheap drill. You would be much better off with a good sds hammer drill if your already using one then ignore this message.
Do you find yourself wrestling with the drill to get it to go through?

Thank you. I am using a brand new sds bit, drilling in very handy, it’s hitting hollow part of brick fairly quickly , then , that’s it , bit goes in fully then as no obstruction.
I have a small bit of the diving wall to finish in a while , I think I was hammering in the frame fixers ( handy ) the guy in hardware said to do that , I’m going to give few light taps , and screw in the frame fixer , and see. That might have been the issue ... bad advice if so ... it’s a lockdown project I’m just tipping away bit by bit ... cheers

iamtony · 28-05-2020 11:39am

https://www.screwfix.ie/p/easydrive-countersunk-concrete-screws-7-5-x-120mm-100-pack/9008h

I know you have the frame fixers already but i use these more often now. They hold great and you dont have to mess around with plugs hoping they dont open in the hollow of the block etc. You really need an impact driver to drive them in.

2012paddy2012 · 28-05-2020 12:30pm

iamtony wrote: »

https://www.screwfix.ie/p/easydrive-countersunk-concrete-screws-7-5-x-120mm-100-pack/9008h

I know you have the frame fixers already but i use these more often now. They hold great and you dont have to mess around with plugs hoping they dont open in the hollow of the block etc. You really need an impact driver to drive them in.

Ah that’s fab I have one side just about done.
I’m a bit concerned about the actual house wall.
The first drill hole I did , bit went in about an inch or so and then hollow . From a side wall concrete / plaster I was surprised . Maybe it’s just the location I picked , I think I might get those younrecommend , I’d hate to do any damage to the actual house wall , with unsuitable fixings // thanks a mill

2012paddy2012 · 28-05-2020 12:34pm

2012paddy2012 wrote: »

Ah that’s fab I have one side just about done.
I’m a bit concerned about the actual house wall.
The first drill hole I did , bit went in about an inch or so and then hollow . From a side wall concrete / plaster I was surprised . Maybe it’s just the location I picked , I think I might get those younrecommend , I’d hate to do any damage to the actual house wall , with unsuitable fixings // thanks a mill

Oh just the impact driver you mention , I use the drill with the adapter , for various screw / bolts / is that not as good as the impact driver? Do you happen to know the actual bit needed for those fixings you recommend ? ( rawplug?)

iamtony · 28-05-2020 2:58pm

2012paddy2012 wrote: »

Oh just the impact driver you mention , I use the drill with the adapter , for various screw / bolts / is that not as good as the impact driver? Do you happen to know the actual bit needed for those fixings you recommend ? ( rawplug?)

Ive never tried with a standard screw gun to be honest maybe someone else has? Impact driver is a lot more suited to the job they use a kinda hammer action similar to the drill. I think most are a t30 torx bit but it would be erotten on the box.

GinSoaked · 28-05-2020 3:02pm

Really not sure I'd use concrete bolts if bolting to hollow concrete blocks, solid blocks and poured concrete yes. I'd be concerned that if there is a decent amount of breakout where the bit exits it might not leave much actual "hole" to grip on and driving the concrete bolts might increase the damage - just a thought?

2012paddy2012 · 28-05-2020 4:39pm

GinSoaked wrote: »

Really not sure I'd use concrete bolts if bolting to hollow concrete blocks, solid blocks and poured concrete yes. I'd be concerned that if there is a decent amount of breakout where the bit exits it might not leave much actual "hole" to grip on and driving the concrete bolts might increase the damage - just a thought?

Both walls very securely fixed thanks ... I just put another nearby if the original didn’t appear to fit securely ... enough for today ! Thanks for all help

loyatemu · 28-05-2020 4:51pm

which way is the roof going to slope?

GinSoaked · 28-05-2020 5:12pm

loyatemu wrote: »

which way is the roof going to slope?

And where is the gutter going or at least what are the plans for the water that runs off the roof?

2012paddy2012 · 28-05-2020 6:33pm

GinSoaked wrote: »

And where is the gutter going or at least what are the plans for the water that runs off the roof?

Funny ya asked that lol... well the side of the house I am stuck as I need to keep it below the boiler outlet. That’s why I ran timber under it. ( it’s just over 7 feet there.
The dividing wall is just 6 feet., there is a fall of just over one foot.. I’m going to start the battons across tomorrow do a couple see how I go. It’s a 6 feet just short of across. Thinking of using joust hangers not sure yet.

I am going to run the gutter inside , drop the perpex sheets just over it so water will run into it ....then Into a water butt ..

I have a length of gutter here I was trying to decide earlier , the best way to fit it ...thinking if I put another batton under the one at dividing wall , and fit the gutter clips / gutter , there and cut the sheets to just there .... that’s the way a guy has it done down the road ... was m not sure .... tho ..

Fixing bolts / what size ? 3x2 timber

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