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Waterford Politics MEGATHREAD
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why I generally don't respond to you is that there is absolutely nodebating with you. You are an aggressive bigot at the best of times that makesa habit of getting into arguements with the most rational of posters. You sir,are like a virus on this forum.It was because of posters like yourself thatthis thread ended up being created, it was because of posters like you that themajority of people stopped posting in this forum for fear of your aggressiveself righteousness interfering with their ability to post and debate in amature manner. You are so stupendously up your own hole , that the last time Ihad the misfortune of trying to communicate with you , I had to sink to a levelof infantile mockery, that you failed to to even realize was ripping the pissand you obvioiusly still hold a grudge. I would urge every one here that has aproblem with you to constantly report your aggressive posts that add nothing tothis forum and detract everything
As far as I can see , you are not interested inpulling any one up, only putting people down with your overly moralisticjudgmental posts. You can not enter into debate or conversation but demand thatyou alone are right in you're opinions and every one else is wrong. If it wasanother forum, you'd have been banned ages ago.You seem to be of the opinionthat this forum is a little stage for you to bully and shout people down.
Where I don't have an objection to you holding certainviews, I object to the way you do so.This is not a forum for you to scream yourbeliefs and harass others,its a forum for debate , that idiots like yourselffail to constantly understand.
This is the lasttime I will interact with you and I have absolutely no doubt that your limitedand shriveled ego will see this as some sort of achievement. I though it waspathetic enough that you posted a couple of minutes after your ban was lifted,but you constantly surprise me with how low you can go. Boards obviously allowsyou to be some one your not in real life and fulfill a fantasy of having peopleactually pay attention to you, wither it be positive or negative. Its just ashame that as a consequence we all have to suffer.
First off, I am not a bigot! And I challenge you to show me where I ever posted anything bigoted or else withdraw your ad hominem attack. And secondly I had not posted on this forum for days before this Megathread was created so to suggest it was because of me, then this is also just plain wrong! I believe one of the reason sthe moderators gave for the creation of the thread included posting images lampooning other posters responses. Again this was your modus operandi not mine. You say you were “ripping the piss”. I seem to recall you lost the plot abit when you were replied to in kind so I don’t think your excuse holds up. The only posters I get into arguments with typically are those who will defend the political attacks on Waterford by neighboring politicians and their parochial political games. Particularly one Phil Hogan which is I believe what you got upset about in the first place. Or those posters who will defend FG and the government’s neglectful treatment of Waterford to what I see as sycophancy levels. So to suggest I am driving people off this forum is complete nonsense when the fact is I only post on the forums concerning WIT,WRH or some othe rthread that has discussed Waterford being asset stripped. Waterford posters have repeatedly had their protestations on this forum dismissed as “tin foilhat paranoia” by a moderator amongst others. Or protest marchers being slurred with the “militant” label. But the stance I and other posters took on these issues were fully vindicated in the national media leaving the arguments of posters like yourself with “no clothes” So I am driving nobody off any forum except those who throw their toys out of the pram because they can’t sustain their own argument. So here are some inconvenient truths for you. When I am on this forum the only thing I discuss are the topics of the thread. The three times I have had infractions. it was other posters who initially derailed the thread with amongst other things ad hominem attacks on me. Your post is just the latest one. If you don’t believe me then look at my posting history and youwill see that that is exactly what happened. There are posters who will takeyour side and I frankly don’t care that is their prerogative. But there are other posters who are actually objective who can see the wood from the trees and see who actually starts all the childish name calling and thread derailing. Am I relentless? Yes but so what? There isnothing in the forum rules against this. I always argue the topic at hand. Therest of what you posted is frankly more ad hominems. You know nothing about meso your abuse is nothing but a double standard on your part. If you can’t sustain your own argument properly then that’s your problem. The objective person will see your rant for what it is.0 -
Are not all our TDs new, bar one who has several times criticised his partys leader?
Same Partites with the exception of FF. And our Government TD's have no experience whatsover. They are just slavishling following a whip sysytem on the tiniest chances the will get some crumbs thrown to them.0 -
Unemployment is down .1% (to 13.5%) across the country and its up in Waterford according to July CSO stats. Govt and TDs really doin a bang up job for us here in the SE.0
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Max Powers wrote: »Unemployment is down .1% (to 13.5%) across the country and its up in Waterford according to July CSO stats. Govt and TDs really doin a bang up job for us here in the SE.
Oh yeah. First Paudie bangin' on about the new Fire Station - then Ciara jumping on the TSSG grant.:rolleyes: While €100m trundles into Limerick. Great job lads and lassies.:mad:0 -
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Oh yeah. First Paudie bangin' on about the new Fire Station - then Ciara jumping on the TSSG grant.:rolleyes: While €100m trundles into Limerick. Great job lads and lassies.:mad:
Jesus ya kicked up an almighty fuss when there was talk about us not getting the fire station and now your dismissing it now that we have it!! The court & firehouse is part of a range of money pumped into Waterford in recent years, that we badly needed and we should welcome with open arms, even if we are neglected in other areas.
Don't forget the investments announced recently for County Waterford including Dunmore East harbour & Water Supply Scheme (two seperate announcements, two different lots of money) and €10m to complete Carriganore campus.
Plus the Viking Triangle in Waterford and our Flood Relief Scheme.
Limerick University got the money from Europe and its a loan. Though its through a system we hadn't access to for a while due to our financial state of affairs.0 -
Jesus ya kicked up an almighty fuss when there was talk about us not getting the fire station and now your dismissing it now that we have it!! The court & firehouse is part of a range of money pumped into Waterford in recent years, that we badly needed and we should welcome with open arms, even if we are neglected in other areas.
Don't forget the investments announced recently for County Waterford including Dunmore East harbour & Water Supply Scheme (two seperate announcements, two different lots of money) and €10m to complete Carriganore campus.
Plus the Viking Triangle in Waterford and our Flood Relief Scheme.
Limerick University got the money from Europe and its a loan. Though its through a system we hadn't access to for a while due to our financial state of affairs.
While you speak of 'we' as a country, this is something that 'we' as Waterford City will never have access to, due to our absence from Cabinet. Admit is Sully - we're way down the food chain in FG. And always will be. Take off the party glasses - just for a minute.
Viking Triangle welcome. Flood relief necessary.
But you omitted:
1. the rape and pillaging of the VEC to Wexford (as was done with ambulance control last time Howlin was in power).
2. The undermining of our city status, but no doubt they'll all be like flies around shyte next year.
3. The undermining of our Hospital.
Yep, Waterford's doing great under Fine Gael.:rolleyes:0 -
Moderators, Education Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators, Regional South East Moderators Posts: 24,056 Mod ✭✭✭✭ Join Date:Posts: 21860
While you speak of 'we' as a country, this is something that 'we' as Waterford City will never have access to, due to our absence from Cabinet. Admit is Sully - we're way down the food chain in FG. And always will be. Take off the party glasses - just for a minute.
No doubt having someone on the cabinet table has a huge positive impact, but that will never change because 'we' as a country won't let it. If our TDs are not giving to us, they won't get voted back in.
But its just worth pointing out some of the positives and the actual investments Waterford has and is receiving, despite people claiming they give us nothing.0 -
No doubt having someone on the cabinet table has a huge positive impact, but that will never change because 'we' as a country won't let it. If our TDs are not giving to us, they won't get voted back in.
But its just worth pointing out some of the positives and the actual investments Waterford has and is receiving, despite people claiming they give us nothing.
Agreed. It's not that we are getting nothing - but far, far less than Cork, Galway, and, need I say it, Limerick. We are being treated appallingly. That is the reality. The negatives far outweigh any small positives.0 -
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Moderators, Education Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators, Regional South East Moderators Posts: 24,056 Mod ✭✭✭✭ Join Date:Posts: 21860
Agreed. It's not that we are getting nothing - but far, far less than Cork, Galway, and, need I say it, Limerick. We are being treated appallingly. That is the reality. The negatives far outweigh any small positives.
Whatever about Cork, I am not sure I agree that Galway & Limerick are a million miles from us.
I think we also need to look at ourselves, and see what we can do to make our City better, rather than sitting grumpily and blaming the government.0 -
Jesus ya kicked up an almighty fuss when there was talk about us not getting the fire station and now your dismissing it now that we have it!! The court & firehouse is part of a range of money pumped into Waterford in recent years, that we badly needed and we should welcome with open arms, even if we are neglected in other areas.
Don't forget the investments announced recently for County Waterford including Dunmore East harbour & Water Supply Scheme (two seperate announcements, two different lots of money) and €10m to complete Carriganore campus.
Plus the Viking Triangle in Waterford and our Flood Relief Scheme.
Limerick University got the money from Europe and its a loan. Though its through a system we hadn't access to for a while due to our financial state of affairs.
We'll be paying through the nose from Jan. 2015 for any water plants etc. so you can classify that as a business investment.
Carriganore money was given because of the legality of the situation left WIT open to being sued.
I think the people of Waterford are annoyed given the fact we are all paying our taxes in to a system that clearly is not giving a return on investment. In fact quite the opposite our tax money has been for quite some time, and will continue, to prop up other areas while we are bled dry.
How many ghost estates are actually in Waterford - relatively few. Most estates built have been at least partially filled and even those are relatively few. So we didn't benefit as much from the boom as the majority of counties around the country but yet we have to pay for it. Meanwhile massive emigration continues tot eh detriment of Waterford's future.0 -
Whatever about Cork, I am not sure I agree that Galway & Limerick are a million miles from us.
I think we also need to look at ourselves, and see what we can do to make our City better, rather than sitting grumpily and blaming the government.
The problems facing Waterford are emigration because of a lack of jobs and money. I cannot hope to resolve this nor can most who are posting here. I have no ideas for a new business.
I think the issue with seeing what we can do is that the Government hold the purse strings. Sure I can blow all the money I have in one great splurge but what about going to college I wouldn't be able to finish it. How much would it help? There is very little disposable income and I don't think people are squirreling it away either.
So what would your advice be to me? How do I go about helping the local economy?0 -
Moderators, Education Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators, Regional South East Moderators Posts: 24,056 Mod ✭✭✭✭ Join Date:Posts: 21860
The problems facing Waterford are emigration because of a lack of jobs and money. I cannot hope to resolve this nor can most who are posting here. I have no ideas for a new business.
I think the issue with seeing what we can do is that the Government hold the purse strings. Sure I can blow all the money I have in one great splurge but what about going to college I wouldn't be able to finish it. How much would it help? There is very little disposable income and I don't think people are squirreling it away either.
So what would your advice be to me? How do I go about helping the local economy?
Waterford has other problems bar government ignorance. I think we might be to stuck in the past and need to move forward away from how the City survived in the past. I'm not sure we can ever be on equal par with other cities if they are larger than us.
I remember a very good post recently by someone on Facebook, can't remember for the life of me where it was but he summed it up nicely.
I think Waterford City is improving nicely and we are starting to focus on our tourism potential. Lots to be done, no doubt, but good work so far. I'm in favour of making the quay one-lane with some nice planting because I think it will make it more attractive for people and cut down on the traffic that isn't on the quays for the purpose of shopping.0 -
Waterford has other problems bar government ignorance. I think we might be to stuck in the past and need to move forward away from how the City survived in the past. I'm not sure we can ever be on equal par with other cities if they are larger than us.
I remember a very good post recently by someone on Facebook, can't remember for the life of me where it was but he summed it up nicely.
I think Waterford City is improving nicely and we are starting to focus on our tourism potential. Lots to be done, no doubt, but good work so far. I'm in favour of making the quay one-lane with some nice planting because I think it will make it more attractive for people and cut down on the traffic that isn't on the quays for the purpose of shopping.
That is only part of the solution. As long as we accept that we are not on a par because they are "larger than us" then there is no hope. And remember, in overall terms they are only marginally larger.0 -
No doubt having someone on the cabinet table has a huge positive impact, but that will never change because 'we' as a country won't let it. If our TDs are not giving to us, they won't get voted back in.
But its just worth pointing out some of the positives and the actual investments Waterford has and is receiving, despite people claiming they give us nothing.
No FG as a party won't let it happen. So don't try and blame the electorate for government betrayal.They are in power they amongst other things have promised reform to stop these practices. It can be easily done. All you have to do is create a judicial body or use the bodies that are already their like the PAC (Or a new independent PAC) to investigate favouritism where it occurs. So if a constituency is judged to be gaining simply because they have a cabinet minister at the table then the minister who signed off on this pork barrell stuff is compelled legally to leave his position. Simple stuff really and not hard to introduce. Instead we get lilly livered stuff like merging North and South Tipp County Councils.0 -
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Moderators, Education Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators, Regional South East Moderators Posts: 24,056 Mod ✭✭✭✭ Join Date:Posts: 21860
fuzzy dunlop wrote: »No FG as a party won't let it happen. So don't try and blame the electorate for government betrayal.They are in power they amongst other things have promised reform to stop these practices. It can be easily done. All you have to do is create a judicial body or use the bodies that are already their like the PAC (Or a new independent PAC) to investigate favouritism where it occurs. So if a constituency is judged to be gaining simply because they have a cabinet minister at the table then the minister who signed off on this pork barrell stuff is compelled legally to leave his position. Simple stuff really and not hard to introduce. Instead we get lilly livered stuff like merging North and South Tipp County Councils.
So Fianna Fail, the PDs, or the Greens have never behaved in the same fashion as Fine Gael? You must be having a laugh. Its widely acknowledged that the electorate wont give a TD a vote unless he looks after his own patch. Its evident on this site. No party or candidate would have the balls to do otherwise or block it because the electorate would respond in kind. I know that FG Ministers and some heavy weight TDs are favoring their own back yards, even a blind mind would see it, but it wont change despite all the talk from them about political reform that has hardly materialized.0 -
So Fianna Fail, the PDs, or the Greens have never behaved in the same fashion as Fine Gael? You must be having a laugh. Its widely acknowledged that the electorate wont give a TD a vote unless he looks after his own patch. Its evident on this site. No party or candidate would have the balls to do otherwise or block it because the electorate would respond in kind. I know that FG Ministers and some heavy weight TDs are favoring their own back yards, even a blind mind would see it, but it wont change despite all the talk from them about political reform that has hardly materialized.
Well It's finally nice to see you admit FG are no different to FF But it's too late the dogs in the street know that already.No I am not having a laugh and you have obviously failed miserably to understand what I wrote. And it's really quite pathetic that you are hiding behing the tails of what FG and the PD's have previously done. We're not talking about TD's. We're talking about cabinet ministers. FG promised reform.They have not delivered. The problem is the system. If you change the system so cabinet ministers cannot show favour to their constituency then half the problem is solved. It will be fairer. TD's will be able to lobby to their hearts content. It will just mean that any case will have to be made on merit. They will not lose out electorally because the state of play will be changed. And by the looks of things most of the FG newbies and most of Labour are heading for annihilation electorally so the presont system has done nothing for them. Tell me Sully if FG are so impotent why do you still support them? Or better still why should we give them "our vote". You have just made a perfect case for Anyone but FG/Labour as far as Waterford is concerned.0 -
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fuzzy dunlop wrote: »Well It's finally nice to see you admit FG are no different to FF But it's too late the dogs in the street know that already.No I am not having a laugh and you have obviously failed miserably to understand what I wrote. And it's really quite pathetic that you are hiding behing the tails of what FG and the PD's have previously done. We're not talking about TD's. We're talking about cabinet ministers. FG promised reform.They have not delivered. The problem is the system. If you change the system so cabinet ministers cannot show favour to their constituency then half the problem is solved. It will be fairer. TD's will be able to lobby to their hearts content. It will just mean that any case will have to be made on merit. They will not lose out electorally because the state of play will be changed. And by the looks of things most of the FG newbies and most of Labour are heading for annihilation electorally so the presont system has done nothing for them. Tell me Sully if FG are so impotent why do you still support them? Or better still why should we give them "our vote". You have just made a perfect case for Anyone but FG/Labour as far as Waterford is concerned.
There is an awful lot in that post which appears to contradict what I know about myself. One thing I established is that there are some people who can't see the wood from the trees when it comes to debates. Its their way, or no way, and dare anybody step in their path for they will get the brunt of it.
Really no interest in engaging with you fuzzy, there is absolutely no point. I enjoy a good cracking debate, even when I don't agree with them, but when its brought to an insulting and personal level, I find its best to just ignore it. So thanks, but no thanks.0 -
There is an awful lot in that post which appears to contradict what I know about myself. One thing I established is that there are some people who can't see the wood from the trees when it comes to debates. Its their way, or no way, and dare anybody step in their path for they will get the brunt of it.
Really no interest in engaging with you fuzzy, there is absolutely no point. I enjoy a good cracking debate, even when I don't agree with them, but when its brought to an insulting and personal level, I find its best to just ignore it. So thanks, but no thanks.
Nice try but I have no problem seeing the wood fromthe trees. Your arguments simply don’t stand up. Even the harshest critic of FG and Phil Hogan from Waterford would not have believed the extent Waterford has been shafted by the government since they came to power in 2011. Every criticism of FG on this thread usually results in you trying to “smooth it over” in some way. My argument sare based on Logic and common knowledge.
“I'm not sure we can ever be on equal par with other cities ifthey are larger than us.”
This statement for example is patently untrue. Limerick andGalway are not larger than us in any meaningful way. You only have to go about10km outside the city and the population size converges. A bit more and Waterford is larger. This fact has been posted here many times and you stillcome out with this kind of “excuse”. It actually sums up FG in a nutshell.Unable to think beyond their own parish or the county boundary. This statement also does not explain the fact that we seemingly are unable to compete with much smaller places like Dundalk (Paypal) or Kilkenny or even Castlebar under this government. Under this government local government offices are broken up and moved from where 80000 people live within a 10 minute drive to Dungarvan where the population in the same area isabout 15000 (I’m being generous). And let’s not forget Lismore where practically nobody lives at all but they vote Deasy and that’s all that matters.The pettiness of it all is staggering and goes against all principles of good governance and planning. We’ve only been talking about it as a society for the last twenty years at least in every newspaper, current affairs program or media outlet in the state. 10 years on internet forums. So it’s not “my way” at all. Your problem Sully is this, the extent you go to try and minimize what is happening to Waterford is insulting to the intelligence of the average person in the extreme. The idea that we’re supposed to “ok with things” because we don’t havea cabinet minister and that’s just the way it is simply does not tally with any rational thought. It has nothing to do with some binary argument.
This is the basic question that the swing voter will be asking themselves. Considering what has happened in Waterford in the last two years.Are these two people worthy of re-election?
Paudie Coffey
Ciara Conway.
Unless there is a monumental turnaround in the approach of thegovernment I think we all know what the answer is going to be.0 -
Actually think the big problem is Deasy, who has several times tried to get rid of Kenny. In 2003 he was a front bench spokesman. He seems to have gone backwards since.
http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/fg-interview-not-an-attack-on-enda-kenny-25937427.html0 -
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Waterford has other problems bar government ignorance. I think we might be to stuck in the past and need to move forward away from how the City survived in the past. I'm not sure we can ever be on equal par with other cities if they are larger than us.
I remember a very good post recently by someone on Facebook, can't remember for the life of me where it was but he summed it up nicely.
I think Waterford City is improving nicely and we are starting to focus on our tourism potential. Lots to be done, no doubt, but good work so far. I'm in favour of making the quay one-lane with some nice planting because I think it will make it more attractive for people and cut down on the traffic that isn't on the quays for the purpose of shopping.
Yeah the problems that are bigger than government ignorance are emigration and economic as I've pointed out. I don't really care what Waterford did in the past and mentioned it nowhere.
Some person said something once... what???
Waterford is trying to improve but here is no disposable income to help it improve. You said that we all had to do something as a community and stop being so negative. So, like many others, without very little disposable income how am I meant to improve Waterford?
Making the quay one lane? How would that work considering all the traffic going in to the city? The only benefit I would see in that is that the massive amounts of people who refuse to be part of Waterford but continue to work here will have to endure staggering tailbacks in to the city possibly giving them an incentive to move in to the city. This might actually provide the true figures for people that are dependent on Waterford.
Anyway the improvements will be practically halted as the councils get merged and all the political grandstanding and muscling goes on I'm sure.
All the improvements in the world won't make a difference if disposable income continues to be lowered.0 -
Oh great, first for all the wrong reasons.In 2008, the highest debt recorded for an Irish county was €7,359 for Kerry. But today, the most indebted county in Ireland is in the sunny south east – Waterford – with an average debt of €30,225 versus just €8,819 in 2008.
http://www.independent.ie/business/irish/waterford-cavan-and-leitrim-are-irelands-most-debtladen-counties-29470785.html0 -
Is that Waterford county or city?0
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There is an awful lot in that post which appears to contradict what I know about myself. One thing I established is that there are some people who can't see the wood from the trees when it comes to debates. Its their way, or no way, and dare anybody step in their path for they will get the brunt of it.
Really no interest in engaging with you fuzzy, there is absolutely no point. I enjoy a good cracking debate, even when I don't agree with them, but when its brought to an insulting and personal level, I find its best to just ignore it. So thanks, but no thanks.
I suppose the question to be posed is this: what has Waterford City ACTUALLY gotten from this coalition.......in comparison to Limerick and Galway?
A relatively piffling amount in comparison it seems. No amount of political spin or blaming FF/PDs/The Greens can change that.
We are isolated because of a feud between Kenny and Deasy.
We are isolated because we lack Cabinet representation.
We are isolated because our three sitting TDs are strangely mute when they should be shouting from the rooftops about
* Our City Status
* The downgrading of our hospital
* The reneging on the promise of a Waterford (not south east) university.
* The agenda being pursued by Phil Hogan/Brendan Howlin in relation to this City.
Finally, we are isolated because of the capitulation of all FG TDs, City Councillors, and their supporters. All of whom place party allegiance before the welfare of this City of ours. And anyone who dares highlight this is classed as "being grumpy??!!. It truly defies belief and is straight out of Kilnascully.
This City is in danger of going under, unless all of the aforementioned get their heads out of their asses and realise what's going on here. Sadly for this City, I would not hold my breath.0 -
Yeah the problems that are bigger than government ignorance are emigration and economic as I've pointed out. I don't really care what Waterford did in the past and mentioned it nowhere.
Some person said something once... what???
Waterford is trying to improve but here is no disposable income to help it improve. You said that we all had to do something as a community and stop being so negative. So, like many others, without very little disposable income how am I meant to improve Waterford?
Making the quay one lane? How would that work considering all the traffic going in to the city? The only benefit I would see in that is that the massive amounts of people who refuse to be part of Waterford but continue to work here will have to endure staggering tailbacks in to the city possibly giving them an incentive to move in to the city. This might actually provide the true figures for people that are dependent on Waterford.
Anyway the improvements will be practically halted as the councils get merged and all the political grandstanding and muscling goes on I'm sure.
All the improvements in the world won't make a difference if disposable income continues to be lowered.
In Dublin they removed traffic from Grafton street, and Henry street and made O'Connell street one lane - and guess what :the sky did not fall in.
There have been several people killed or seriously injured on the quays over the years, now the quays have been reduced to single lanes it will be safer and will attract people into the city.0 -
In Dublin they removed traffic from Grafton street, and Henry street and made O'Connell street one lane - and guess what :the sky did not fall in.
There have been several people killed or seriously injured on the quays over the years, now the quays have been reduced to single lanes it will be safer and will attract people into the city.
You're comparing a city of 1 million people to one of 50-60 thousand with a completely different road infrastructure and servicing a completely different function. If you made the quay so we can plant flowers according to Sully what direction would it go in? Where would all the traffic go? The skies won't fall but the traffic congestion alone would cause a massive disincentive to actually come to Waterford outside of anything but work. John Robert's square died a quick death after being pedestrianized now we want to do the same while creating massive traffic problems - to plant flowers? And don't say shops would just magically setup, never mind the massive costs involved in making it feasible for them there. I think its a waste of money given how hard it is to come by. I can see the reasoning behind it and I would love if we had a pedestrianized quay with cafes, restaurants and pubs to stroll down I just think that given the economic situation we find ourselves in that it is impracticable because of the massive issues with setting up your own business right now.
A better approach would be free and easily accessible outside the city parking (out near Butlerstown for example) with buses going in and out hourly so you could park and shop. For visitors the hassle of finding somewhere to park and paying for it is a disincentive that we could eliminate. The park and ride option is definitely something we should be trying to implement.0 -
In Dublin they removed traffic from Grafton street, and Henry street and made O'Connell street one lane - and guess what :the sky did not fall in.
There have been several people killed or seriously injured on the quays over the years, now the quays have been reduced to single lanes it will be safer and will attract people into the city.
The only comment I would offer is that there appears to be no cash to fund Clock Tower to the bridge, so you will have a double-lane dual carriageway merging with a single-lane system at the Clock Tower. Doesn't get much more dangerous than that IMHO.0 -
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Yeah the problems that are bigger than government ignorance are emigration and economic as I've pointed out. I don't really care what Waterford did in the past and mentioned it nowhere.
Well actually the issue of emigration and our economic woes have everything to do with the government. But Waterford isn't alone in that, lets not forget.Some person said something once... what???
I couldn't remember exactly where it was made, but it was a reply in response to a FG Town Councilor in Waterford County having a go at Phil Hogan. I think he strikes some valid points.Brian Cleary wrote:There are two elements to this Tom. Kevin has a point about the parish pump issue. When Minister Cullen was in office Waterford got one of the best road building programmes outside of Dublin.
The second issue is this. Phil Hogan aside Kilkenny has been on an upward trajectory for quite some time, probably about 18 - 20 years. In that time they have scored little victories consistently that have morphed into a hugely positive result for them. Think of The Cat Laughs, great tourism product, McDonagh Junction, excellent marketing, Springsteen playing TWO nights there this weekend and much more.
It kills me to say this as a Wexford man living in Tipp but Kilkenny is usurping Waterford's position as the capital of the south east.
But it's been easier for them to do it. Why? Because they haven't had to deal with the demise of traditional manufacturing like Waterford has. If you take disposable spend out of the figures then Kilkenny would be a national basket case. It has very little industry to speak of outside of the Agricultural sector. Waterford on the other hand had a wealthier (in general terms) economy and then lost Waterford Crystal, ABB, Citi, Talk Talk, Sanofi Aventis and other large scale employers. The skill sets in Waterford are those of bigger industry.
One could argue that Kilkenny's rise and Waterford's undeniable fall are all part of the natural development and decline of towns and cities. Read the works of urban theorist Richard Florida and his writings on the 'Rise of the Creative Class' to see what I am getting at.
Waterford needs re-invention. Many places do.
The presence of Big Phil has helped Kilkenny but he can't be praised or blamed for the dominance - it's been a long building momentum.
Finally, 25 years ago or 20 years ago if Bruce Springsteen wanted to gig in the south east he would have played two nights at Tramore Racecourse. The head of steam that was there in Waterford at that time has gone and that is very sad.
Personally, I love Waterford and the other towns like Tramore. It was a big part of our life when we were kids. We have family living there now and we are there all the time but there seems to be a strange pall over the place that needs to be lifted.
Source: https://www.facebook.com/cllrtom.raine?fref=tsWaterford is trying to improve but here is no disposable income to help it improve. You said that we all had to do something as a community and stop being so negative. So, like many others, without very little disposable income how am I meant to improve Waterford?
Its not up to you or me. Its up to our councilors and somewhat our government to look at a different strategy for Waterford. I see there is a huge focus now on tourism, and the government locally and nationally have invested in this for Waterford.
The other focus is getting a University to make Waterford or the South East more attractive but it appears we have missed the boat on a fully fledged University as there is no appetite within any government or within the sector to have more of the same. We are being given an alternative, but there is an attitude that its either 'all or nothing' despite the idea in principal and in theory looking like a positive move for WIT. Nobody could say with absolute certainty that Waterford would have boomed if we are/were given University Status - its more about fairness and part of a strive to be equal.Making the quay one lane? How would that work considering all the traffic going in to the city? The only benefit I would see in that is that the massive amounts of people who refuse to be part of Waterford but continue to work here will have to endure staggering tailbacks in to the city possibly giving them an incentive to move in to the city. This might actually provide the true figures for people that are dependent on Waterford.
What's the big deal with bringing traffic to a singular lane and making the quay more attractive for pedestrians and light traffic to facilitate people who want to drive into the city to shop? Its bonkers to suggest that the high traffic levels going through the City at the moment are shoppers or potential shoppers!
The quay is far too busy as people won't use the bypass and insist on going down the quays to get out of town. By bringing the quay down to one lane (which it effectively is anyway, the two-lane system was an accident waiting to happen!) you are trying to force unneeded traffic away and make it more attractive for shoppers and people who need to use the quay. It wont force potential shoppers away, and I very much doubt people will decide to go to Kilkenny / Wexford / Clonmel just to avoid a bit of traffic on the quay. The problem on the quay with tailbacks now is partly the road works making it a bit of a mess.
Sadly, some people are convinced both the local AND national council are out to get Waterford! The local council are doing these works, it was their idea and it wasn't forced upon them by the government. If I recall correctly, this was on public display before any work commenced.I suppose the question to be posed is this: what has Waterford City ACTUALLY gotten from this coalition.......in comparison to Limerick and Galway?
A relatively piffling amount in comparison it seems. No amount of political spin or blaming FF/PDs/The Greens can change that.
Limerick is suffering just as bad as Waterford. Galway was doing very well for a large number of years and as a bigger city, its no wonder. But there not without their losses, or government cuts - the airport was parted from while Waterford was kept on.
I listed what Waterford has received by the state already in the past two years of this government. What has Limerick got? A bit of an investment as part of a council wide plan? Galway gets jobs, of course, but its had a huge amount of expansions from existing companies. Waterford gets little or not jobs and has seen a dramatic fall from grace with companies that were here leaving. But visits from the IDA are up under this government, and there at least two action plans for the South East / Waterford.
What might encourage more people back to work is a scheme being rolled out in parts of the country including Waterford is allowing people to remain on rent allowance while taking up a job. Prior to that, you lost out on the allowance if you got a job.We are isolated because of a feud between Kenny and Deasy.
A bit more than an issue with Kenny, the issue is much wider than that and I am pretty sure that an olive branch was given. After all, we have seen that Kenny doesn't hold his grudges - some of those who went against him in the heave were still looked after with Ministerial posts. We will never know if one was offered to John and refused - though I suspect he would have been offered only a Junior Ministerial position along the lines of work he would be close with.We are isolated because we lack Cabinet representation.
Without a doubt, but sadly we don't want the system changed and it wont ever change. This is part of a major problem in our political system that no party, despite what they say, will change. Unless we change.We are isolated because our three sitting TDs are strangely mute when they should be shouting from the rooftops about
* Our City Status
* The downgrading of our hospital
* The reneging on the promise of a Waterford (not south east) university.
Don't forget your local Sinn Fein Senator. All of our representatives have been working on these very issues, representing Waterford. Party wide. I suggest you do a bit of research and you will see various articles in local media, interviews on local radios, statements on Facebook, records from Dail speeches, records from written answers in the Dail and so on. The TDs are doing what they can do and a little bit of research shows that.* The agenda being pursued by Phil Hogan/Brendan Howlin in relation to this City.
Your being silly and you know it. That theory is in peoples heads purely because their respective counties have an advantage over us due to better cabinet representation. But to suggest there is an agenda is completely idiotic and simply stupid. Kilkenny & Wexford have hardly came on in leaps and bounds.Finally, we are isolated because of the capitulation of all FG TDs, City Councillors, and their supporters. All of whom place party allegiance before the welfare of this City of ours. And anyone who dares highlight this is classed as "being grumpy??!!. It truly defies belief and is straight out of Kilnascully.
This City is in danger of going under, unless all of the aforementioned get their heads out of their asses and realise what's going on here. Sadly for this City, I would not hold my breath.
Do some research. Our TDs have represented Waterford on the very issues you raised. Both the City & County council are against the merger of the councils.0 -
Do some research. Our TDs have represented Waterford on the very issues you raised. Both the City & County council are against the merger of the councils.
Didn't the FG and Labour councillors vote in favour of the amalgamation?
Given that I've still seen zero reason for this to be a good thing for Waterford (Its a fine thing for Ireland if you count Galway, Cork and Dublin as being Ireland), and no proper costings on exactly how much the merger will save, I see it still as an odd way for the councillors to vote.
I still fear that its a HQ decision being sent down the line to obedient party members but I'd be delighted if I was wrong.0 -
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sully, in future just post this, save yourself the typing
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Didn't the FG and Labour councillors vote in favour of the amalgamation?
Given that I've still seen zero reason for this to be a good thing for Waterford (Its a fine thing for Ireland if you count Galway, Cork and Dublin as being Ireland), and no proper costings on exactly how much the merger will save, I see it still as an odd way for the councillors to vote.
I still fear that its a HQ decision being sent down the line to obedient party members but I'd be delighted if I was wrong.
There appears to be general disagreement within the council, or there was at least, from what I recall reading. I suspect the awl whip system came into force for the vote, with some generally accepting it.
Am I mistaken in thinking the most vocal against it, Mary Roche, didn't vote? Or am I thinking on something else?0 -
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There appears to be general disagreement within the council, or there was at least, from what I recall reading. I suspect the awl whip system came into force for the vote, with some generally accepting it.
Am I mistaken in thinking the most vocal against it, Mary Roche, didn't vote? Or am I thinking on something else?
I read on twitter at the time of the mayoral vote that she didnt vote because there was no candidate that she could support. At the motions regarding amalgamation as far as I know, she voted against amalgamation, as did one of the labour councillors.
I remember her getting a load of flack at the time questioning her representation for not voting but it really annoyed me (Ive no allegience to her or any rep/party) that the mini machines of FG and the left alligned parties seemed to go into full ahead in having a go. That sort of vindicated her in my opinion because I would have little agreement or common ground with either of the candidates who were at opposite ends of the spectrum. If you asked me to vote for an extreme left party, or an extreme right party.. I'd abstain too. Thats where I used to look to labour as some sort of left of centre option, but I wont do that again.
The criticism was opportunistic and it reeked of a groupthink effect that made intelligent people seem to jump at the behest of some outdated loyalty to party without actually stopping to think. Thats a common thread across politics in Ireland and its not good to see.0 -
To whom?The only comment I would offer is that there appears to be no cash to fund Clock Tower to the bridge, so you will have a double-lane dual carriageway merging with a single-lane system at the Clock Tower. Doesn't get much more dangerous than that IMHO.
There have been several pedestrian deaths on the quays over the years. Mostly elderly taking their chances crossing 4 lanes of fast moving traffic.
Traffic will be forced to slow down it will be safer.0 -
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I read on twitter at the time of the mayoral vote that she didnt vote because there was no candidate that she could support. At the motions regarding amalgamation as far as I know, she voted against amalgamation, as did one of the labour councillors.
I remember her getting a load of flack at the time questioning her representation for not voting but it really annoyed me (Ive no allegience to her or any rep/party) that the mini machines of FG and the left alligned parties seemed to go into full ahead in having a go. That sort of vindicated her in my opinion because I would have little agreement or common ground with either of the candidates who were at opposite ends of the spectrum. If you asked me to vote for an extreme left party, or an extreme right party.. I'd abstain too. Thats where I used to look to labour as some sort of left of centre option, but I wont do that again.
The criticism was opportunistic and it reeked of a groupthink effect that made intelligent people seem to jump at the behest of some outdated loyalty to party without actually stopping to think. Thats a common thread across politics in Ireland and its not good to see.
Thanks, I thought it was unlikely she would not vote for it. I knew there was something though. But I thought the flack for her not voting was that she should have voted against those supporting the merger? At least on Boards anyway. Where else did she get flack from this group think as you called it?
What you describe was in youth politics among those who were really into their party and politics. Supporting the party and its candidates and not allowed have a different opinion without being looked down upon. Unless you were in the clique. I don't mind people supporting a party but there has to be a level of difference of opinion. Unless your a complete polar opposite. Same across all the political spectrum, including independents.0 -
If I was in the same position I'd have abstained too. Just because one side held an anti merger view doesn't mean you have to support their candidate in something as wide ranging as a mayoral election.
It's a while back but I think I remember the flack mostly came from aligned polar opposites expecting her to nail her colours to either flag when what was being globally represented was very far from her well known views. The joy of bring independent I suppose. I read a bit of it on twitter if I remember right. Im sketchy though.
On the amalgamation, subsequent decisions and examples of treatment have only solidified my opinion that there's an agenda to clean Waterford out. I wonder is it some sort of 'you got plenty under Cullen so now you can suffer' idea from those in high places around us.
It's the responsibility foremost of that person/people's party colleagues to be the ones fighting hardest and loudest against such an approach. That's TDs, councillors, party members and supporters.
It makes you wonder how powerful ministers really are perceived to be within their own parties if very intelligent people can turn towards vociferously supporting something that the dogs on the street know to be utter BS. If you know I'm talking BS, and I know I'm talking BS, then the only way I can insult you further is to try to convince you I'm sincere. That's happening too much in politics and it has hit Waterford hard.
I would have my faith partially restored if there was a tap on the right door by all FG and Labour TDs and councillors from Waterford and it was made clear that there was no way on earth this would be allowed, and that there'd be a mass resignation if it was pushed.
I can but dream. Party first, even if an instruction from on high is clearly running your home city into the floor.
As I said, there's no good reason for an amalgamation other than to send educated people from Waterford onto the plane and thereby strengthening the other more illustrious cities economies.
It's awful to see decent party members who's hearts are in the right place being sent out to defend the indefensible.. And worse still watching them do it.0 -
Its not up to you or me. Its up to our councilors and somewhatour government to look at a different strategy for Waterford. I see there is ahuge focus now on tourism, and the government locally and nationally haveinvested in this for Waterford
The tourism aspect is great but we are more than a heritage town. The government locally which is dominated by FG is subservien tto the party whip and hence failing to oppose detrimental measures being taken against the city i.e. the amalgamation. I would argue that most of the proactive measures taken within the council are driven by Michael WalshThe other focus is getting a University to make Waterford or the South Eastmore attractive but it appears we have missed the boat on a fully fledgedUniversity as there is no appetite within any government or within the sectorto have more of the same. We are being given an alternative, but there is anattitude that its either 'all or nothing' despite the idea in principal and intheory looking like a positive move for WIT. Nobody could say with absolutecertainty that Waterford would have boomed if we are/were given UniversityStatus - its more about fairness and part of a strive to be equal.
Waterford has not missed the boat. The boat did not arrive. What is happening to WIT is what was supposed to have happened in 1994 when I was there and it was still called WRTC.
Limerick is suffering just as bad as Waterford. Galway was doingvery well for a large number of years and as a bigger city, its no wonder. Butthere not without their losses, or government cuts - the airport was partedfrom while Waterford was kept on.
Whyis it “no wonder” for Galway just because it’s a bigger city? Limerick is bigger than Galway so by your yardstick Limerick should be doing better again.Limerick might be suffering now but for decades it was given an unnatural advantage in the Shannon Free zone.Ditto Galway nowI listed what Waterford has received by the state already in the past two yearsof this government. What has Limerick got? A bit of an investment as part of acouncil wide plan? Galway gets jobs, of course, but its had a huge amount ofexpansions from existing companies. Waterford gets little or not jobs and hasseen a dramatic fall from grace with companies that were here leaving. Butvisits from the IDA are up under this government, and there at least two actionplans for the South East / Waterford.
The problem with the IDA visits is that they are yielding nothing. What the South East needs is a definite an concerted plan focused on the largest urban center which is Waterford. The re-establishment of the regional offices in Waterford. The kind of thing that was done in Galway thirty years ago when it was still smaller than Waterford and which succeeded in kick starting that region’s economy. Again why is it that the wheel has to be re-invented when it comes to Waterford?What might encourage more people back to work is a scheme being rolled out inparts of the country including Waterford is allowing people to remain on rentallowance while taking up a job. Prior to that, you lost out on the allowanceif you got a job.
Whatwill encourage people back to work is jobs. Not jobsbridge. Or anything elsethat undermines the labour market.
Without a doubt, but sadly we don't want the system changed andit wont ever change. This is part of a major problem in our political systemthat no party, despite what they say, will change. Unless we change.
Wedo want change. We voted for change. We were promised change. That is why we voted for change. Your saying this because FG almost entirely reneged on its electoral promise to provide change. It has been discussed ad-nauseum how it can be done. It is not dependent “on us changing”. The system needs reform. Do you remember that word? How can the voter change when the dice isloaded. This has to come from the top down. It is the establishment that doesn’t want to change the system not the voter. Give the voter the choice and they will do it.
Your being silly and you know it. That theory is in peoplesheads purely because their respective counties have an advantage over us due tobetter cabinet representation. But to suggest there is an agenda is completelyidiotic and simply stupid. Kilkenny & Wexford have hardly came on in leapsand bounds.
Thereis an agenda. That is why the South East Region was removed from any local government structure. That is why local government was removed from Waterford City. That is why the IDA offices were removed from Waterford under this governments previous incarnation That is why the spatial strategy was binned and with it the Gateway status forWaterford because it was seen to favor Waterford too much (Quote Brendan Howlin).Thatis why Phil Hogan criticizes the IDA for focusing on Waterford “too much” Thatis why the hospital network was broken up to placate Kilkenny. All this is on public record. Kilkenny and Wexford are not able to compete with Waterford naturally.They do not have the natural advantages such as population density or natural infrastructure.That is why they want everything based on “county” because they think it gives them an equal advantage but it doesn’t.
Asfor this guy,
Originally Posted by BrianCleary
Thereare two elements to this Tom. Kevin has a point about the parish pump issue.When Minister Cullen was in office Waterford got one of the best road buildingprogrammes outside of Dublin.
The second issue is this. Phil Hogan aside Kilkenny has been on an upwardtrajectory for quite some time, probably about 18 - 20 years……………
…………………Personally, I love Waterford and the other towns like Tramore. It was a bigpart of our life when we were kids. We have family living there now and we arethere all the time but there seems to be a strange pall over the place thatneeds to be lifted.
I usually smell a rat when I see someone fromWexford or Kilkenny lamenting the demiseof Waterford. Especially as it does not tally with any quantifiable facts. It sounds like the type of nonsensethat used to appear in the letters pages when the Boundary extension wasproposed. Waterford is as much the regional and economic capital now as it was10,20,30 or even 100 years ago. Relative to Waterford Kilkenny,Wexford orClonmel Waterford is still in the same position and the other urban centershave made no gains on Waterford. Why is this? The answer is because Waterford hasall the natural advantages. And all the voodooplanning and goal post rearranging by Phil Hogan won’t changes this. Also theidea that Waterford is somehow not as pro-active as Kilkenny is another myth. Letsnot forget the tall shops, Viking Triangle, Spraoi and a ton of otherfestivals. Or the fact that the urban planning in Waterford is the mostprogressive in the region and is 20years ahead of Kilkenny and Wexford.
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Well actually the issue of emigration and our economic woes have everything to do with the government. But Waterford isn't alone in that, lets not forget.
You say its not Government ignorance that is not our biggest problem - but now you;re saying everything is connected to Government- so what are you saying it is exactly?
I'd classify emigration and the economic blackhole that has sucked Waterford in as our biggest problems how can you draw a statement like that as em saying Government is irrelevant - Don't be facetious.
You should draw the opposite conclusion and realise that I'm saying they;re a bunch of monkeys who only care about money and re-election is the ebst way to do this - so they're brilliant at promising stuff and identifying what people want and yet deliver none of it.I couldn't remember exactly where it was made, but it was a reply in response to a FG Town Councilor in Waterford County having a go at Phil Hogan. I think he strikes some valid points.
Makes some decent points about the loss of manufacturing that nobody in any main political party seemed to care about. The rest is largely bull. The best road system outside of Dublin -has he been to Limerick/Galway/Cork or any other part of the country. Interesting that while every county on the road gets a new free motorway Waterford gets a toll on a bridge that had a campaign going back before I was born (I was born in 1988). We got a few kms of road that was badly needed and a tolled second bridge when 3 is what is needed.
Kilkenny is not dominant and not on a continuous upward trajectory. What needs to happen is Waterford needs to be given control of its own hinterlands so it can get the services it should be given considering the amount of people that actually make use of the facilities available.
I also find the suggestion that Waterford people are not in a ''creative class' as offensive. We've got much more tech jobs, the i.t, pharmas than Kilkenny does. Kilkenny has a very centred population that seems to be on an apparent rise because of Government spending and because of less overpopulation. Waterford supplies South Kilkenny and a large part of West Wexford with jobs whereas Kilkenny has just itself to look after, because of its population living in a different area Waterford has become overpopulated. This is regularly ignored.
Yes I know this so I can;t understand why you told someone to go out and be more positive to try and change things.Its not up to you or me. Its up to our councilors and somewhat our government to look at a different strategy for Waterford. I see there is a huge focus now on tourism, and the government locally and nationally have invested in this for Waterford.
Somewhat up to our Government - they're making all the wrong decisions and eliminating disposable income. Rather than fix problems they'd rather pay now defunct banks billions that even the EU and IMF said not to.
That's great that they've given some form of investment in to tourism but what happens when it doesn't work to solve unemployment of over 30% - there has to be inroads made on all types of industries not just tourism. Its the same with the IT and Pharma sectors - even if they had a huge industry here its not a magic wand. What are we to expect when 1100 jobs are announced for a Glanbia factory that will employ less than 100. And if I have to hear one more announcement of high tech jobs in Dublin that are actually about 20 HR people so a company can use Ireland as a tax haven I'll go nuts.The other focus is getting a University to make Waterford or the South East more attractive but it appears we have missed the boat on a fully fledged University as there is no appetite within any government or within the sector to have more of the same. We are being given an alternative, but there is an attitude that its either 'all or nothing' despite the idea in principal and in theory looking like a positive move for WIT. Nobody could say with absolute certainty that Waterford would have boomed if we are/were given University Status - its more about fairness and part of a strive to be equal.
Oh its a positive move but a move that means very little I imagine in the way of funding which is really what matters. Luckily the sports campus in Carrganore had to be given money or there was a possible case for suing. I'll still be glad to have technological uni. instead of i.t on my c.v as I'm sure you will be but I would prefer to have more research positions in Waterford than not. No we wouldn't have boomed but as I've pointed out there is no silver bullet. A strive to be equal is rubbish a strive to ensure that as little money is spent as possible in a constituency that is not important on a national level for elections.What's the big deal with bringing traffic to a singular lane and making the quay more attractive for pedestrians and light traffic to facilitate people who want to drive into the city to shop? Its bonkers to suggest that the high traffic levels going through the City at the moment are shoppers or potential shoppers!
The quay is far too busy as people won't use the bypass and insist on going down the quays to get out of town. By bringing the quay down to one lane (which it effectively is anyway, the two-lane system was an accident waiting to happen!) you are trying to force unneeded traffic away and make it more attractive for shoppers and people who need to use the quay. It wont force potential shoppers away, and I very much doubt people will decide to go to Kilkenny / Wexford / Clonmel just to avoid a bit of traffic on the quay. The problem on the quay with tailbacks now is partly the road works making it a bit of a mess.
A bit of traffic wouldn't be a problem but when it starts stretching to 20-30 minutes then people wouldn't even come near the place and also gives a very bad impression of the area. I would say its mainly people doing errands and going to and from work. People who shop make up the numbers as well. Shopping can be done elsewhere working and errands can't.
The two lane system was an accident waiting to happen because of no implementation of traffic laws - people double parked not even edging but taking up full lanes loomed out of nowhere. A few walkover bridges would have been an alternative idea that would be more effective in reducing deaths.
Unneeded traffic isn't there in the first place you can go up John's hill or around by Grace Dieu. A park and ride would be much more effective in cutting vehicle traffic and increasing footfall.Sadly, some people are convinced both the local AND national council are out to get Waterford! The local council are doing these works, it was their idea and it wasn't forced upon them by the government. If I recall correctly, this was on public display before any work commenced.
I don't think anyone is out to get Waterford per say I think it is just an easy target for cuts. I do think Phil Hogan dislikes Waterford though for his own petty/personal reasons. Being a minister doesn't make someone better than they were before unfortunately.
We have unemploynment at 30% and who knows how many people are off the register for things like retraining and education never mind emigration. I don't think its jobs when the boom years were in in Waterford unemployment was around 3-5%.What might encourage more people back to work is a scheme being rolled out in parts of the country including Waterford is allowing people to remain on rent allowance while taking up a job. Prior to that, you lost out on the allowance if you got a job.
I'd doubt Deasy would turn down a pay rise.A bit more than an issue with Kenny, the issue is much wider than that and I am pretty sure that an olive branch was given. After all, we have seen that Kenny doesn't hold his grudges - some of those who went against him in the heave were still looked after with Ministerial posts. We will never know if one was offered to John and refused - though I suspect he would have been offered only a Junior Ministerial position along the lines of work he would be close with.
I don't think I know a single person that doesn't want a massive change to the way our Government operates.Without a doubt, but sadly we don't want the system changed and it wont ever change. This is part of a major problem in our political system that no party, despite what they say, will change. Unless we change.
We're told that Fine Gael couldn't do anything from the opposition so why are Sinn Fein now able to do so if only they were willing? Besides he actualyl does keep bringing Waterford up.Don't forget your local Sinn Fein Senator. All of our representatives have been working on these very issues, representing Waterford. Party wide. I suggest you do a bit of research and you will see various articles in local media, interviews on local radios, statements on Facebook, records from Dail speeches, records from written answers in the Dail and so on. The TDs are doing what they can do and a little bit of research shows that.
Can anyone explain to me why tourism is the new buzz word and solution to the country's problems. It was renewable energy and building infrastructure that was going to sort it out... now that we no longer have any disposable income left, now its tourists from the U.S. who do.0 -
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You say its not Government ignorance that is not our biggest problem - but now you;re saying everything is connected to Government- so what are you saying it is exactly?
I'd classify emigration and the economic blackhole that has sucked Waterford in as our biggest problems how can you draw a statement like that as em saying Government is irrelevant - Don't be facetious.
Not everything. Just those issues, but there not exclusive to Waterford so I am not counting it as a specific problem in terms of the government v Waterford theory. There can be no denying the economic downturn has hit Waterford, with one of the largest unemployment rates in the country. But its not just a Waterford problem, and the government are addressing this as a national issue rather than county by county....so they're brilliant at promising stuff and identifying what people want and yet deliver none of it.
This is the only part I agree with and it applies to every single party and candidate. Welcome to Politics.Interesting that while every county on the road gets a new free motorway Waterford gets a toll on a bridge that had a campaign going back before I was born (I was born in 1988). We got a few kms of road that was badly needed and a tolled second bridge when 3 is what is needed.
Isn't the M9 the only motorway that has no toll?
The Bypass was given the toll. People would complain either way if there was a toll and suggest it was a conspiracy to hit Waterford. People can travel to and from Waterford without having to a pay a toll.Kilkenny is not dominant and not on a continuous upward trajectory. What needs to happen is Waterford needs to be given control of its own hinterlands so it can get the services it should be given considering the amount of people that actually make use of the facilities available.
Kilkenny is doing a lot better than Waterford is in terms of a local economy without state support or without Phil Hogan, and there can be no denying that. Always did, prior to this government. I'm not sure how inheriting the hinterlands will see Waterford going from rags to riches, or at least helping.Somewhat up to our Government - they're making all the wrong decisions and eliminating disposable income. Rather than fix problems they'd rather pay now defunct banks billions that even the EU and IMF said not to.
The economic policies of this government are being put to us by the EU / IMF and as a result of a Fianna Fail agreement. The banking issue is something they are trying to address without much support from Europe.That's great that they've given some form of investment in to tourism but what happens when it doesn't work to solve unemployment of over 30% - there has to be inroads made on all types of industries not just tourism. Its the same with the IT and Pharma sectors - even if they had a huge industry here its not a magic wand. What are we to expect when 1100 jobs are announced for a Glanbia factory that will employ less than 100. And if I have to hear one more announcement of high tech jobs in Dublin that are actually about 20 HR people so a company can use Ireland as a tax haven I'll go nuts.
I'm not suggesting this is the solution. I'm pointing out investment and disputing the theory Waterford isn't being given anything at all. I'm also not suggesting that the government are doing us many favours. I'm just pointing out both sides rather than the one side.Oh its a positive move but a move that means very little I imagine in the way of funding which is really what matters. Luckily the sports campus in Carrganore had to be given money or there was a possible case for suing. I'll still be glad to have technological uni. instead of i.t on my c.v as I'm sure you will be but I would prefer to have more research positions in Waterford than not. No we wouldn't have boomed but as I've pointed out there is no silver bullet. A strive to be equal is rubbish a strive to ensure that as little money is spent as possible in a constituency that is not important on a national level for elections.
Sued? The contractors did the job and got paid for it. WIT ****ed up and couldn't pay to complete it so the project grounded to a halt. The government stepped in and bailed them out. And they moved pretty quickly in another boost. Mass outrage when the news was announced that they ****ed up, fingers pointing squarely at the government without foundation. State backs it, and not a whimper about it.
They may not have given us the full university status we sought, but we knew this was coming since the day the government took office and put it in their programme for government. It was a commitment to Waterford and the South East and the biggest in terms of our long fight than any other government. 2 years down the line and the train is moving pretty rapidly to get a new type of University that WIT may very well be the leader in and bring a new class of education bringing on a different class of jobs. Was I pissed off that the state didn't give a full university? 100%. During my time in local politics I was hounding for this and when it was announced when they came into power, I was still very annoyed but it was a concession I would rather take than have nothing at all given.A bit of traffic wouldn't be a problem but when it starts stretching to 20-30 minutes then people wouldn't even come near the place and also gives a very bad impression of the area. I would say its mainly people doing errands and going to and from work. People who shop make up the numbers as well. Shopping can be done elsewhere working and errands can't.
If people can't pay €2 for a toll, there hardly going to travel onto Kilkenny or Wexford to do their shopping. The improvements on the quay are to reduce traffic, not increase it. Thus cutting down on the length of time to travel the quay.The two lane system was an accident waiting to happen because of no implementation of traffic laws - people double parked not even edging but taking up full lanes loomed out of nowhere. A few walkover bridges would have been an alternative idea that would be more effective in reducing deaths.
Enforce the traffic laws and don't go down the route of silly bridges that would look out of place.We're told that Fine Gael couldn't do anything from the opposition so why are Sinn Fein now able to do so if only they were willing? Besides he actualyl does keep bringing Waterford up.
What are Sinn Fein doing exactly? Nothing. There in opposition. Most of their policies don't hold up to scrutiny and this is well known. There a dead end party that's going nowhere fast. They need to look at themselves and reform but I think there is more to it than that.Can anyone explain to me why tourism is the new buzz word and solution to the country's problems. It was renewable energy and building infrastructure that was going to sort it out... now that we no longer have any disposable income left, now its tourists from the U.S. who do.
Any and all potential avenues should be explored. Tourism and Ireland is pretty big, and could be further developed. Waterford being the oldest city with a lot on offer should have been doing what there doing now in the boom. Instead, they just let Waterford Crystal pull the people and hope the manufactures stayed loyal.0 -
the way i look at it, the govt is pretending to tackle the main problem in Waterford, unemployment. Their strategy is clearly not working and changing the name of WIT to Tech Uni will not change a thing unless actual changes are made.
A few mill for upgrade of VT paths (fire station, flood) is all very welcome and will benefit the city in terms of tourism but we need jobs, the high quality jobs being parachuted into Galway,Cork and Dublin. Or at least give us the tools to fight on an even level with those other places, eg IDA regional office, proper investment in WIT. the annoucement of 200 in Nypro and 75 in Glanbia is a sad indictment of the supposed IDA concentrating on the SE, tackling the jobs crisis tactic, are we being pushed at all? yes, apparently there has been more visits but how much are they pushing here. Deasy was on about a special rate the IDA gives companies in the West, we deserve and need that rate more.
To sum up, yes some positives there, they are minor though and need to be backed up by proper job creating initiatives. (we need to do our bit too by spending our time and money in the city centre, helping to create business and vibrancy)0 -
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Max Powers wrote: »the way i look at it, the govt is pretending to tackle the main problem in Waterford, unemployment. Their strategy is clearly not working and changing the name of WIT to Tech Uni will not change a thing unless actual changes are made.
A few mill for upgrade of VT paths (fire station, flood) is all very welcome and will benefit the city in terms of tourism but we need jobs, the high quality jobs being parachuted into Galway,Cork and Dublin. Or at least give us the tools to fight on an even level with those other places, eg IDA regional office, proper investment in WIT. the annoucement of 200 in Nypro and 75 in Glanbia is a sad indictment of the supposed IDA concentrating on the SE, tackling the jobs crisis tactic, are we being pushed at all? yes, apparently there has been more visits but how much are they pushing here. Deasy was on about a special rate the IDA gives companies in the West, we deserve and need that rate more.
To sum up, yes some positives there, they are minor though and need to be backed up by proper job creating initiatives. (we need to do our bit too by spending our time and money in the city centre, helping to create business and vibrancy)
I don't believe its the government who are forcing companies to setup in particular areas. If that was the case, Kilkenny & Wexford would be booming compared to Waterford as there is cabinet influence. The government strategy may not be giving us results, for sure, but at least some effort is being made with at least two strategies in addition to an increase in visits by the IDA. Plus, there looking to work on a new building on the Cork Road which may boost things a bit more.
In other news, some (without foundation to be fair) say that our TDs are doing absolutely nothing and just do what they are told. I heard Paudie Coffey mention on Vincent Browne last night that he was labelled as being part of a 'dirty dozen' and are challenging policies and so on rather than just doing what he was told.
He said himself that he isn't there to 'push buttons' (in reference to an article from a FG back bencher TD who claims that's all they really do) and that they will be lobbying and making their voices heard through the parlimentary party.
This was the article anyway which suggested Paudie was part of this 'dirty dozen';
http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/politics/fine-gael-dirty-dozen-who-wont-show-up-and-shut-up-29470858.html
There was an article about a revolt within Fianna Fail over the leadership and a clique. Media is in full swing of silly season alright.0 -
Kilkenny is doing a lot better than Waterford is in terms of alocal economy without state support or without Phil Hogan, and there can be nodenying that. Always did, prior to this government. I'm not sure how inheritingthe hinterlands will see Waterford going from rags to riches, or at leasthelping.
Any chance of providing any evidence to support this claim.Because I contend it is pure BS. And if you can’t back it up it is nothing but a slur on Waterford and its people. Show us all the facts and figures that show Kilkenny is doing better than Waterford without state support and for how long .Now you might try and portray this as some personal attack and say somethinglike “this contradicts what I know about myself” and so on so forth and refuseto debate on those grounds. But the fact is if you can’t do this then all this proves is that you will say absolutely anything to deflect attention away from FG including knocking your own people.
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I don't want to get involved in the usual ding dong of pro and anti government on this thread but I would like to make a point.
Waterford is certainly at a disadvantage because of no minister and yes we would do better if we had one.
Leaving that aside a lot of our problems are internal caused by cosy cartels and cliques and fairly useless councillors ( from all parties).
1. Cartels and cliques, a hamstrung Chamber of Commerce ( dominated by vested interest of a handful of members ) a Port at odds with City Council ( objecting to planning permission), a mis-managed airport ( similar board members to Port and Chamber), a cartel of shops dealing with cruise liner customers and so on. Basically this city is full of vested interests that are only concerned with lining their own pockets.
2. Useless Councillors : Some examples , not one attended meeting in Tower hotel with senior government ministers citing clashing times with their meeting. Not telling people that they started and finished early because of good weather and could have attended meeting. Not one councillor attending meeting with retailers and representative from rates office. Only 5 out 15 attending meeting of City Centre Business Group and Council despite the group representing 150 retailers.
Personally I believe that we have major problems in Waterford but everyone finds it easier to blame bogeymen in Dublin or Kilkenny. Again that is not to say that we don't have problems there but we need to get our own house in order as well.0 -
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I don't want to get involved in the usual ding dong of pro and anti government on this thread but I would like to make a point.
Waterford is certainly at a disadvantage because of no minister and yes we would do better if we had one.
Leaving that aside a lot of our problems are internal caused by cosy cartels and cliques and fairly useless councillors ( from all parties).
1. Cartels and cliques, a hamstrung Chamber of Commerce ( dominated by vested interest of a handful of members ) a Port at odds with City Council ( objecting to planning permission), a mis-managed airport ( similar board members to Port and Chamber), a cartel of shops dealing with cruise liner customers and so on. Basically this city is full of vested interests that are only concerned with lining their own pockets.
2. Useless Councillors : Some examples , not one attended meeting in Tower hotel with senior government ministers citing clashing times with their meeting. Not telling people that they started and finished early because of good weather and could have attended meeting. Not one councillor attending meeting with retailers and representative from rates office. Only 5 out 15 attending meeting of City Centre Business Group and Council despite the group representing 150 retailers.
Personally I believe that we have major problems in Waterford but everyone finds it easier to blame bogeymen in Dublin or Kilkenny. Again that is not to say that we don't have problems there but we need to get our own house in order as well.
Fair points, fair play.0 -
I don't want to get involved in the usual ding dong of pro and anti government on this thread but I would like to make a point.
Waterford is certainly at a disadvantage because of no minister and yes we would do better if we had one.
Leaving that aside a lot of our problems are internal caused by cosy cartels and cliques and fairly useless councillors ( from all parties).
1. Cartels and cliques, a hamstrung Chamber of Commerce ( dominated by vested interest of a handful of members ) a Port at odds with City Council ( objecting to planning permission), a mis-managed airport ( similar board members to Port and Chamber), a cartel of shops dealing with cruise liner customers and so on. Basically this city is full of vested interests that are only concerned with lining their own pockets.
2. Useless Councillors : Some examples , not one attended meeting in Tower hotel with senior government ministers citing clashing times with their meeting. Not telling people that they started and finished early because of good weather and could have attended meeting. Not one councillor attending meeting with retailers and representative from rates office. Only 5 out 15 attending meeting of City Centre Business Group and Council despite the group representing 150 retailers.
Personally I believe that we have major problems in Waterford but everyone finds it easier to blame bogeymen in Dublin or Kilkenny. Again that is not to say that we don't have problems there but we need to get our own house in order as well.
You've raised some interesting points here and I would agree with much of it. However are we somehow unique in that regard? From what I have seen on the KK forum they have no great love for their retailers and have made almost identical criticizms.In fact they criticize their retailers for preventing Tesco from setting up shop. At least we are not in that position The same could be said in Dublin. You just have to look at the Luas which was built on two seperate lines to appease retailers.
I agree that our councillors are by and large useless. But again are we unique there? One of the problems in Ireland is we use the locals to warn off the government which is understandable. But instead of voting for someone who has some vision we just vote the oppositiion in because they are the opposition. Waterford City Council itself is fairly progressive. They have removed traffic from much of the City centre over the last two decades and I think the plan to reduce traffic on the quay is a good plan. I personally think it could have been doen better but its a step in the right direction.
But the major issue is job creation and that is co-ordinated at a national level. There is a bizzare situaton where the IDA are seemingly incapable of delivering quality jobs to the South East that defies logic. We've been previously told that road access was the problem. Yet when that is resolved there we then get told we need a University. Yet Paypal have no issue setting up in Dundalk without this crucial University. So you can only come to the conclusion that it is inertia on the part of the IDA. Yet as an incentive for the St Andrew agreement the Irish government AGREED to direct 40000 IDA backed jobs to the North. Yet 1000 jobs are impossible for Waterford. As I said it just does not add up. We hear "excuses" such as "we can't force them. I beg to differ.
I would also respectfully disagree that we are creating bogeymen of Kilkenny and Dubin. I don't hear Dublin much in the arguements and criticism of Phil Hogan/Brendan Howlin is not criticizm of Kilkenny/Wexford. We are in an unprecedented situation in Ireland and if ever we need a coherent national strategy it is now. Yet we have our politicians from neighbouring counties pulling the same stunts as FF did during the boom. This is a fair Cop.0 -
I don't want to get involved in the usual ding dong of pro and anti government on this thread but I would like to make a point.
Waterford is certainly at a disadvantage because of no minister and yes we would do better if we had one.
Leaving that aside a lot of our problems are internal caused by cosy cartels and cliques and fairly useless councillors ( from all parties).
1. Cartels and cliques, a hamstrung Chamber of Commerce ( dominated by vested interest of a handful of members ) a Port at odds with City Council ( objecting to planning permission), a mis-managed airport ( similar board members to Port and Chamber), a cartel of shops dealing with cruise liner customers and so on. Basically this city is full of vested interests that are only concerned with lining their own pockets.
2. Useless Councillors : Some examples , not one attended meeting in Tower hotel with senior government ministers citing clashing times with their meeting. Not telling people that they started and finished early because of good weather and could have attended meeting. Not one councillor attending meeting with retailers and representative from rates office. Only 5 out 15 attending meeting of City Centre Business Group and Council despite the group representing 150 retailers.
Personally I believe that we have major problems in Waterford but everyone finds it easier to blame bogeymen in Dublin or Kilkenny. Again that is not to say that we don't have problems there but we need to get our own house in order as well.
So from that we can deduce that we have:
* Useless councillors (not all but in the main, particularly Labour/FG as they're in power).
* A minority of business people with agendas (no arguments there).
* An airport starved of funding - not mismanaged as you accuse them of.
There are indeed bogeymen. Biggest one being Phil Hogan, who appears to be driving a bulldozer through this City. Ably assisted by Howlin, and the people representing these two parties on the City Council.
Finally, the performance of our Government TDs is abysmal. Truly. They have stood by and watched:
* Our City Status being completely undermined.
* Our Hospital being dismantled before our eyes.
* A VEC being stripped and moved to Wexford.
* The pledge for Waterford University being reneged on.
And all this while our reps sit on their hands. Fair play? A kick in the bollix sounds more like it. It is incredible - in this day and age; for all the education - to watch educated people sucked into blind party allegiance.
And where, precisely, has that blind party allegiance gotten this City?0 -
Not getting involved in the ding dong either but would add a few points,
We do not have suitable up to standard factory/office space, what we do have is 1970's asbetos ridden old style factories, IDA have gone to tender on a new 2500 m2 as I write , but this is a large drawback.
Howlin and Hogan are asset stripping from us, but this is the nature of Irish politics , we will do it to them if we get the power in the future!0 -
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wellboytoo wrote: »Not getting involved in the ding dong either but would add a few points,
We do not have suitable up to standard factory/office space, what we do have is 1970's asbetos ridden old style factories, IDA have gone to tender on a new 2500 m2 as I write , but this is a large drawback.
Same can be said for large retail space.Howlin and Hogan are asset stripping from us, but this is the nature of Irish politics , we will do it to them if we get the power in the future!
Nature of Irish politics indeed but what have they stripped from us? You can't really argue our City Status as it hasn't benefited Kilkenny or Wexford. The VEC was the most obvious because it benefited Wexford.
In other positive news for Waterford, direct from the government, Minister Leo Varadkar (same Minister that stripped Galway of its funding to help run the airport and keep it here in Waterford) has recommended unfreezing the grant given to Waterford to purchase the lands to extend the runway. This is a huge step for the airport and a very positive indication and commitment to the airport by the government yet again for our airport.Transport Minister Leo Varadkar has recommended unfreezing grant funding which he said will significantly enhance the chances of the airport obtaining a replacement for the Waterford London air service. Grant funding for the purchase of these lands was originally approved by the Department in November 2011. However this was frozen, following the decision by Aer Arann to discontinue all flights last January. Waterford County Council can now proceed with Compulsory Purchase Order of lands for a runway end safety area. The acquisition of the 18 acres is considered crucial to achieving compliance with safety regulations because a runway end safety area needs to extend directly into this property.The County Council are confident that within a matter of months Waterford Airport will be able to commence work. Funds will also have to be raised by the airport.Waterford Fine Gael Deputy John Deasy says this move is the culmination of months of work.He says it's expected that the airport will be able to raise the required private funding.And Deputy Deasy says everyone knows how critically important the airport is for the region.
Source: http://www.wlrfm.com/news-and-sport/waterford-news/186888-huge-progress-made-in-securing-an-extension-to-the-runway-at-waterford-airport.html0 -
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