Waterford Politics MEGATHREAD

fuzzy dunlop

wellboytoo wrote: »

Not getting involved in the ding dong either but would add a few points,

We do not have suitable up to standard factory/office space, what we do have is 1970's asbetos ridden old style factories, IDA have gone to tender on a new 2500 m2 as I write , but this is a large drawback.

Howlin and Hogan are asset stripping from us, but this is the nature of Irish politics , we will do it to them if we get the power in the future!

If this is the case and I am not saying it isn't then the answer to that problem is the office space should be built. And if its not being built then it is becuase the IDA and the government do not have the interest in providing jobs. I also do not accept it is the case because there is no end to factories and businesses in Ireland who have had facilities built after jobs announcements were made. Specifically Intel, Dell, Microsoft and Google. So this is not really a problem. Who is saying this is the case? It sounds like this is another excuse not do do something to be honest. Galway had none of these things and yet wha do you see now.

As for the second point. When did we ever assett strip Wexford,Kilkenny or Clonmel? Cullen certainly didn't do it. Deasy Snr. didn't do it. The South East was a net beneficiarry of jobs funding when Cullen was there. Their hospital services were not assett stripped just to suit Waterford. Anything that happened was part of a plan that matched what was happening in other regions for once. If Waterford wasn't there it would not have happened at all. Undere this Regime the VEC was assett stripped.WRH was pilferred, the regional sructures have been finally killed to suit Wexford and Kilkenny (because the can't domoinate it with their smaller urban centres) and the City status is gone (Thank you Sully for finally admitting this!). The reason for this is because the parity of Esteem with our other cities is a good presentation or marketting benefit which should not be underestimated. Waterford has been attacked this way because when it comes to investment the likes of Howlin and Hogan they think that if Waterford is reduced to another mere county then it gives them equal advantage.Well it doesn't. And finally on your second point. Why should this be acceptable? This practice can easily be changed with legislation. But we have had none just like we have had no banking inquiry and why planning investigations are being shutdown. Here is some light reading that will explain why Phil Hogan should have been sacked ages ago and this is only a sample believe me.

http://www.broadsheet.ie/2012/09/26/had-your-phil-yet/

As for the IDA. They have addmitted themselves they incentivise some regions over others which is something else we should not accept

http://www.irishexaminer.com/ireland/800-jobs-on-the-way-claims-embattled-ida-167669.html.

So who do we blame for all of this? Well as Enda said when he was on the other side of the Dail. "The Buck stops here"

Trotter

Sully are you sure that the land is for extending the runway?

I'm fully open to correction but as far as I know, that land is for an overrun area and not really to do with an extension.

I'm growing so weary of this thread. I loathe the fact that we're corralled into a corner of the forum so nobody will see the discussion that involves us all being told essentially we're imagining things.

We're going around in circles in this fabricated little 'discussion' area trying to argue the obvious.

My city is being economically destroyed around me and I'm not going to sit here and attempt to be excited by courthouse extensions, a better fire station or a something which (please do correct me) has little to do with an extension to the runway in terms of larger aircraft.

I'm sick of hearing its all grand. It's not. Time for me to bow out of this whole thing. Slán

Sully

Trotter wrote: »

Sully are you sure that the land is for extending the runway?

I'm fully open to correction but as far as I know, that land is for an overrun area and not really to do with an extension.

I'm growing so weary of this thread. I loathe the fact that we're corralled into a corner of the forum so nobody will see the discussion that involves us all being told essentially we're imagining things.

We're going around in circles in this fabricated little 'discussion' area trying to argue the obvious.

My city is being economically destroyed around me and I'm not going to sit here and attempt to be excited by courthouse extensions, a better fire station or a something which (please do correct me) has little to do with an extension to the runway in terms of larger aircraft.

I'm sick of hearing its all grand. It's not. Time for me to bow out of this whole thing. Slán

Was always of the understanding the land purchase was for the extension of the runway from local media and discussion on Boards, but I am fully open to correction.

Anyway, awful shame your walking away from the conversation just because its not all negative and some are willing to discuss (not just me) another side to our problems. I have never denied we are struggling or have often been let down by this and current governments but I will always point out the positives. If it was announced in the morning the fire station or courthouse wasn't going ahead, or the money for the extension of the runway was refused, you (and others) wouldn't be to slow about having a go at this government and me for 'supporting' them. But all quiet when the news is good (for a change).

air2000

Trotter wrote: »

Sully are you sure that the land is for extending the runway?

I'm fully open to correction but as far as I know, that land is for an overrun area and not really to do with an extension.

This land will cover both, for the moment its for the overrun but it will also cover any future extension at the Tramore end.

7upfree

Trotter wrote: »

loathe the fact that we're corralled into a corner of the forum so nobody will see the discussion that involves us all being told essentially we're imagining things.

Well spotted;) And it begs the question: why?:)

Trotter wrote: »

My city is being economically destroyed around me and I'm not going to sit here and attempt to be excited by courthouse extensions, a better fire station or a something which (please do correct me) has little to do with an extension to the runway in terms of larger aircraft.

Welllll, there are those who try to convince you that it isn't. Heads up their own asses etc.

Trotter wrote: »

I'm sick of hearing its all grand. It's not.

And that is it - in a nutshell. For all the pro-Government posturing and excusing on the previous posts.

Max Powers

This would be positive if applied to SE. taken from wlr site

The Mayor of Waterford City says he's confident the playing field will be levelled to enable Waterford to compete for industry. Councillor John Cummins says he's been in contact with Minister Bruton's office to ensure the South East is reclassified under the new EU Regional Aid Guidelines. He says depsite being classified as a region in need the South East hasn't received the same level of support as the the Border, Midlands and West which includes Galway.

Even more positive if the IDA grants reached West levels.

7upfree

Max Powers wrote: »

This would be positive if applied to SE. taken from wlr site

The Mayor of Waterford City says he's confident the playing field will be levelled to enable Waterford to compete for industry. Councillor John Cummins says he's been in contact with Minister Bruton's office to ensure the South East is reclassified under the new EU Regional Aid Guidelines. He says depsite being classified as a region in need the South East hasn't received the same level of support as the the Border, Midlands and West which includes Galway.

Even more positive if the IDA grants reached West levels.

I certainly wouldn't hold my breath Max. After FG's performance with WRH and the City Status? Where was Mr. Cummins then?

MRnotlob606

karl marx was right.

7upfree

MRnotlob606 wrote: »

karl marx was right.

How so?

lanarty56

Well I think it,s safe to say that Waterford is ****ed.

Hijpo

lanarty56 wrote: »

Well I think it,s safe to say that Waterford is ****ed.

Has a bigger issue come to light?

Max Powers

a lot of fan fair about Cullinanes new strategy document (see munster, Waterford today and N&S for articles). Intersting one in this weeks Munster which says that the Paris based OECD said govt should invest more Waterford and the SE, citing regional imbalance etc.

You would think that would work in our favour, we have a lot of ammunition that supports our case from all sorts of sources, be nice if the govt actually took action on Cullinanes report of the OECD recommendations.

Anyway, i know its just a report and it reads like a wish list from articles i have read in national and local media but I think Cullianane deserves some credit for it. even if it is probably going to be ignored much like Richard Brutons report done a couple of years ago.

PS - not a SF fan, SF voter and to be 100% honest, i dont think this will make me vote SF but thought he deserves some kudos at least.

hardybuck

Max Powers wrote: »

a lot of fan fair about Cullinanes new strategy document (see munster, Waterford today and N&S for articles). Intersting one in this weeks Munster which says that the Paris based OECD said govt should invest more Waterford and the SE, citing regional imbalance etc.

You would think that would work in our favour, we have a lot of ammunition that supports our case from all sorts of sources, be nice if the govt actually took action on Cullinanes report of the OECD recommendations.

Anyway, i know its just a report and it reads like a wish list from articles i have read in national and local media but I think Cullianane deserves some credit for it. even if it is probably going to be ignored much like Richard Brutons report done a couple of years ago.

PS - not a SF fan, SF voter and to be 100% honest, i dont think this will make me vote SF but thought he deserves some kudos at least.

You would imagine that Cullinane would probably take a seat in the 2015 election the way things are going.

allthedoyles

Finnbar01

I would really like to know what politicians mean exactly when they use words like justice and equality?

Sully

So how are Waterford Boardsies voting next week? Leaning towards a No vote on the referendum and probably a Yes on appeal court. Though I need to research it a bit more.

As usual a lot of scaremongering and misleading statements. Drive any sane person mad!

Hijpo

a firm no to both from me.

To many loose ends and the fact that its not being debated is a complete farce.

7upfree

Sully wrote: »

So how are Waterford Boardsies voting next week? Leaning towards a No vote on the referendum and probably a Yes on appeal court. Though I need to research it a bit more.

As usual a lot of scaremongering and misleading statements. Drive any sane person mad!

Yes to the abolition of the Seanad. Anything that reduces the number of politicians can only be good. A talking, back-slapping gravy train of the worst kind.

No to another court. More bureaucracy .

Sully

Hijpo wrote: »

a firm no to both from me.

To many loose ends and the fact that its not being debated is a complete farce.

What's wrong with freeing up the Supreme Court? Delayed Justice is No Justice as Shatter says (or whatever the way he says it)

7upfree wrote: »

Yes to the abolition of the Seanad. Anything that reduces the number of politicians can only be good. A talking, back-slapping gravy train of the worst kind.

So you don't feel we need another form of 'checks and balances' and something to hold the Dail accountable in some shape or form?

This article directly applies to you: http://www.thejournal.ie/readme/declan-ganley-reform-seanad-politics-referendum-1102008-Sep2013/

It is a home, to be fair, to failed politicians or retired politicians. I can't see it ever being reformed.

No to another court. More bureaucracy .

As I said earlier, What's wrong with freeing up the Supreme Court? Delayed Justice is No Justice as Shatter says (or whatever the way he says it)

nice_very

NO to both from me, its what they are not telling you that is the danger.

7upfree

Sully wrote: »

So you don't feel we need another form of 'checks and balances' and something to hold the Dail accountable in some shape or form?

The Seanad, in fairness, is a useful as tits on a bull. A toothless, unelected (by the electorate) talking shop of the worst kind. Can't remember where i saw it during the week, but this appears to be the chain of command:

Troika > Gang Of Four and their unelected advisors > Dail > Seanad.

Now it appears that the troika is accountable to nobody, with the rest merely rubber stamping their policies. Tis has been proven time and time again. So realistically, the Seanad is impotent. And has been for years. An elitist quango of the worst kind.

Sully wrote: »

It is a home, to be fair, to failed politicians or retired politicians. I can't see it ever being reformed.

Don't forget those aspiring politicians also. Agreed. It will never be allowed reform. How else can Frankfurt control things?

Sully wrote: »

As I said earlier, What's wrong with freeing up the Supreme Court? Delayed Justice is No Justice as Shatter says (or whatever the way he says it)

Personally, I believe the whole justice system is a farce. The creation of another court just adds another tier of bureaucracy and red tape. No thanks.

PS How about adding a poll?

Finnbar01

7upfree wrote: »

Yes to the abolition of the Seanad. Anything that reduces the number of politicians can only be good. A talking, back-slapping gravy train of the worst kind.

I completely agree with you, that's why I'm voting no.

No to another court. More bureaucracy .

Agree again but haven't really did any research into this.

Martin_D

What about our 6 Oireachtas members - ALL on the Yes side on Seanad Vote - Cummins of FG defied party whip by saying he would vote No (surely he'll be dumped by Kenny for that); Coffey and Conway kept low key but canvassed for Yes; Deasy was busy on other important things - no real profile on the issues; Cullinane was most energetic on Yes campaign - Voters rejected the lot of them on the key reform of Kenny big idea pulled out of the air 4 years ago to deflect from himself when under threat from within.
But the killer is they all accepted publicly the dodging of Kenny from public debate of the issue - accepting his usual sound bite style of politics and not call on him to get out there and account for himself.

The Court of Appeal was easily carried because it made sense and had no political undertones.

Hijpo

Sully wrote: »

What's wrong with freeing up the Supreme Court? Delayed Justice is No Justice as Shatter says (or whatever the way he says it)

I didnt see the need for an appeals court, save 20 million by abolishing the seanad then set up a new court that would probably cost 20 million+ by the time its fully operational.

I would be fearful that its ONLY use would be to fast track reposessions of homes, with banks saying they aim 1000 or so this year and the ECB putting pressure on them to do so it set alarm bells ringing.

Black Suir

After he calling for a yes vote, and suggesting that the whole seanad is a joke, and how it should be got rid off, can it be taken that he will be resigning his seat or will he be like most politician continue to take or of both sides or his mouth, or out of his _________, and not decide that the place is a great thing and maybe that it should just be reformed.

Dicky Pride

He was towing the party line. David Cullinane has done some of his most effect public serving in the Seanad and it would be a great loss for Waterford if he stood down.

wellboytoo

It is kind of ironic that the first time Sinn Fein say yes to anything they get a no from the electorate

7upfree

Hijpo wrote: »

I didnt see the need for an appeals court, save 20 million by abolishing the seanad then set up a new court that would probably cost 20 million+ by the time its fully operational.

I would be fearful that its ONLY use would be to fast track reposessions of homes, with banks saying they aim 1000 or so this year and the ECB putting pressure on them to do so it set alarm bells ringing.

Looks like you've hit the nail on the head there. And all supported by the "Socialists". What a joke.

Black Suir

Dicky Pride wrote: »

He was towing the party line. David Cullinane has done some of his most effect public serving in the Seanad and it would be a great loss for Waterford if he stood down.

What makes you say that. It was not the people of Waterford that got him in there. It was the people across Ireland that had a vote. What he says and does in there can do no good for Waterford. If he wants to represent Waterford its a TD that he should be elected as or to remain a councillor.

7upfree

Dicky Pride wrote: »

He was towing the party line. David Cullinane has done some of his most effect public serving in the Seanad and it would be a great loss for Waterford if he stood down.

How precisely does the Seanad "serve the public" pray tell.

Dicky Pride

For my own sanity, I choose not to engage with cynical, negative, maniacs like you 7upfree.

Sully

I have to say, I have been impressed with Cullinane. He has made the most of his position and has been vocal and proactive. Considering he is in a fairly dead duck of a chamber and he is only there to help garner publicity for the next general election for another attempt at being given a slot as a TD, he does well.

The party also gives him a lot of time on the airwaves in comparison with other colleagues in the party.

7upfree

Dicky Pride wrote: »

For my own sanity, I choose not to engage with cynical, negative, maniacs like you 7upfree.

In other words you can't defend it.:)

AdMMM

Last week he was saying he was useless, a waste of taxpayers money and contributes nothing to society. I wonder will he be singing off the same hymn sheet this week?

@Sully: Surely if he's only there for the publicity, then he's part of the problem with the Seanad?

@Dicky Pride: A senator shouldn't be a loss to a geographical area, but rather to his specific panel i.e. the Labour Panel. Again, it highlights what's wrong with the Seanad when a member would be missed by a constituency instead of for the work of their actual role.

Am Chile

Joe kelly posted about this earlier on twitter_ I tend to agrees with this position/

As Mary Lou Mcdonald said the Seanad was elitist, undemocratic and waste of money shouldn't sf senators now resign so not to waste our money

https://twitter.com/joekellyInd/status/387215881413341184

AdMMM

They've put themselves into an awkward position politically. At the doorsteps at the next general election, the likes of David Cullinane (and indeed any other Senator that supported the abolition of the Seanad) will find it very difficult to be credible and position themselves as being different to "the rest of them".

MRnotlob606

they will move more to the right to get votes

AdMMM

MRnotlob606 wrote: »

they will move more to the right to get votes

There's no need, especially because FF will be picking up most of those votes. Slightly left of labour and they'll be fine.

Dicky Pride

7upfree wrote: »

In other words you can't defend it.:)

Jesus Christ there's no end to you arrogance. I have defended it enough this week through other channels. I will no longer engage with you, that's all. You're la joke.

7upfree

Dicky Pride wrote: »

Jesus Christ there's no end to you arrogance. I have defended it enough this week through other channels. I will no longer engage with you, that's all. You're la joke.

Picky picky! Heat, kitchen, etc.:D You made the statement here. Put up or shut up.

barneystinson

Good to see the Waterford City forum is representative of the city itself...























... full of loudmouth bogeys!

Reading threads on this forum is like a recipe for ire!

Anyway I thought there was to be no politics discussions outside of the politics thread..?

Max Powers

i see in journal.ie that Deasy had a go at Kenny about the bad running of the referendum. You gotta hand it to Deasy, he sticks to his guns, on saying that ,politically speaking he is possibly useless for influencing for Waterford's benefit. No one in FG is gonna go near him.

Max Powers

Budget: living city initiative originally planned for Waterford and Limerick extended to KK, Cork and Dublin. Nothing against those places obviously but they are not performing near as bad as Waterford and Limerick unemployment wise and will ultimately mean the scheme which had potential will be diluted down into a pathetic name only......if it ever starts at all.

7upfree

Max Powers wrote: »

Budget: living city initiative originally planned for Waterford and Limerick extended to KK, Cork and Dublin. Nothing against those places obviously but they are not performing near as bad as Waterford and Limerick unemployment wise and will ultimately mean the scheme which had potential will be diluted down into a pathetic name only......if it ever starts at all.

As usual, Hogan looking after KK - even though it's not a major City.

Max Powers

10million for a music venue for Cork, unbelievable....how many nice IDA buildings to attract possible companies would that build on the Crystal site or elsewhere around the SE. The more i look at this budget, the more it stinks of the same narrow minded and parochial bull we have come to expect from Irish politicians. Headline taxes havent gone up (except the Pension levy) but its lack of investment in jobs and growth is unbelievable.

Hijpo

How did they come to the conclusion that they are creating 3000 jobs a month?

Cabaal

Max Powers wrote: »

10million for a music venue for Cork, unbelievable....

So you'd begrudge Cork getting a decent music venue?

Max Powers

Cabaal wrote: »

So you'd begrudge Cork getting a decent music venue?

not at all but I dont think Cork needs as much help as other places i.e suffering no where near to the likes of Limerick or Waterford Cities. I do begrudge 10million of public money going to less worthy vanity projects when other ones are there that can have real impact. Wouldnt 10milion for example be great in making a few places for FDI IDA companies to potentially move into in Waterford for exmple. We have been told (rightly or not) that we have lost potential jobs because of the lack of 'suitable space'. Sure a music venue for Cork will mean they will have another good venue, do they really need it (opera house, marquee etc), is it critical, will it be a game changer, not really.

hardybuck

The way they'll look at it: If we spend this €10m in Cork, will we see a good return on investment? The answer is most probably yes.

The Marquee is just that - it's a tent they erect once a year. This will allow them attract more acts throughout the year. The demand for a venue with a 5,000 capacity is probably there in a city that large, and will attract people from all over Munster. It may also provide an opportunity to develop the iconic Beamish and Crawford site, which would be very welcome urban renewal.

Spending €10m on speculative building of industrial and/or commercial space would appear to be a riskier investment.

By the way, this is use of National Lottery funding, which has been traditionally used to support the arts among other things.

nice_very

7upfree wrote: »

As usual, Hogan looking after KK - even though it's not a major City.

fixed that for ya