Violent Protests In Hong Kong.

Overheal · 13-08-2019 6:12pm

There’s really nothing anyone in the west can do about this, so I don’t blame people for tuning it out when the next step is a violent jackbooting we can’t do anything about. China doesn’t cave to our social media complaints. NATO doesn’t “intervene” in a nuclear state. They’re for all intents and purposes, on their own. The most any of us can do is watch in relatively quiet contemplation while events unfold.

James Brown · 13-08-2019 6:13pm

We could stop doing business with China

Overheal · 13-08-2019 6:16pm

Matt Barrett wrote: »

We could stop doing business with China

Not likely I’m afraid.

joseywhales · 13-08-2019 6:32pm

Harry Palmr wrote: »

joseywhales wrote: »

The only way this makes a meaningful impact is if you have 5 or 6 Chinese regions in revolt simultaneously. In the end they will just use this as an excuse for tighter control further fueling inevitable conflict in the future.

You don't get the difference between HK and China! It's that they are not Chinese that gives them the freedom to protest. As far as the protesters are concerned it's this or be no different to Beijing or Shenzhen.

No I get that hk by law has the right to protest and mainlanders don't. What I'm saying is that law is superceded by Chinese power and the only way to break that is for a contagious revolt across multiple provinces, otherwise the Chinese government will just crush the hon Kong protesters

Always Tired · 13-08-2019 6:32pm

These are some of the bravest men and women I have seen in my lifetime. I certainly wouldn't fancy being arrested and captured by a police force backed by such a brutal regime. It's great to see a people who will stand together like this, you would never get it in a Western country outside of France. Here when you stick your neck out against unfairness you'll soon find yourself very lonely, the spirit of rebellion has been lost in Ireland for the majority. of course we have a much better life in general so that factors into people playing it safe.

Can you imagine how strongly these lads feel about this and how bad things have to be to put their lives on the line like this. it's amazing to see and fair play to them. Unfortunately it's likely to end very badly but it's interesting that the Chinese government hasn't totally gone into total 'crush them' mode already.

Muahahaha · 13-08-2019 6:33pm

Gatling wrote: »

Protesters in HK are getting 10 year prison sentences for just turning up at a protests it's essentially the stasi secret police on steroids

Makes me wonder what will happen in the crackdown if protests continue. We could be looking at mass scale prison camps full of teenagers and students locked up. Parents will get angry and there'll be some backlash to the PLA and Beijing govt if they do that. They probably will though regardless.

Anyone find the lack of involvement by the US strange? Perhaps its Trump and his America First policy but I'd have thought previous administrations would seize upon any opportunity to destabilise China and at least help to sow the seeds for a later revolution. These protests are the biggest threat to Communist Party rule in a very long time yet the US seems ambivalent.

Gatling · 13-08-2019 6:34pm

During the airport sit in today apparently a supposed arriving passagner was attacked by protesters , which was believed to be an undercover cop wearing a I love the Hong Kong police t-shirt cop but it actually it turns out the person was employed by Chinese state media sent to Hong Kong (talking about baiting protesters)

Yurt2 · 13-08-2019 6:35pm

Carrie Lam today had the look of a woman that only just realized she was nothing but a puppet for Xi and the CCP and that her career is toast no matter what she does.

Unfortunately, intervention from Beijing can't be far away. Let's hope that too much blood isn't spilled. Beijing has completely screwed up any chance that the youth of HK will stand-down - they've lost the locker room to use a sporting cliche. How they handle the next few weeks may well shape China for a generation; the Chinese in diaspora and even some brave mainlanders are starting to express their concern.

joseywhales · 13-08-2019 6:36pm

I love how they condemn the protesters for being (slightly) violent after weeks being teargassed lol. I would not condemn more violence, they have nothing to lose now, the penalties and crackdown will be so bad they might as well go out fighting.

Gatling · 13-08-2019 6:59pm

Trump tweeted saying Chinese military moving to the Hong Kong border

https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1161325870516264961?s=20

Overheal · 13-08-2019 7:06pm

Muahahaha wrote: »

Makes me wonder what will happen in the crackdown if protests continue. We could be looking at mass scale prison camps full of teenagers and students locked up. Parents will get angry and there'll be some backlash to the PLA and Beijing govt if they do that. They probably will though regardless.

Anyone find the lack of involvement by the US strange? Perhaps its Trump and his America First policy but I'd have thought previous administrations would seize upon any opportunity to destabilise China and at least help to sow the seeds for a later revolution. These protests are the biggest threat to Communist Party rule in a very long time yet the US seems ambivalent.

Congress is out of session but senate and house majority leaders and others have personally condemned China / are supportive of protest. They return to session September 7 barring an emergency session, which the situation at the moment wouldn’t really call for - the Chinese military rolling into HK or mowing down protestors might.

TheValeyard · 13-08-2019 7:36pm

If the Chinese military moves in and slaughters the protesters, all they will prove is they haven't changed since 1989.

igCorcaigh · 13-08-2019 7:39pm

Gatling wrote: »

Trump tweeted saying Chinese military moving to the Hong Kong border

https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1161325870516264961?s=20

And says to stay calm.
LOL!

Muahahaha · 13-08-2019 7:55pm

Yurt! wrote: »

Carrie Lam today had the look of a woman that only just realized she was nothing but a puppet for Xi and the CCP and that her career is toast no matter what she does.

I would say there is more to the Lam situation than meets the eye in that she obviously knows she has lost the confidence of Hong Kongers to govern and rule but at the same time she is a Beijing appointee. That means her loyalties are to the Communist party and she is probably thinking if she resigns now it is two fingers to Beijing and there is a possibility she could find herself disappeared away into a hard labour camp.

For her to see those protests of 2 million people and still not resign or give an inch on the extradition bill tells me that Beijing is calling all the shots here. Lam is going along with it because she knows disloyalty to the party and political dissent does not end well in China. In many ways she is stuck between a rock and a hard place, if she resigns without Beijings say so then her own life and her families lives are put at risk.

Muahahaha · 13-08-2019 8:04pm

Overheal wrote: »

Congress is out of session but senate and house majority leaders and others have personally condemned China / are supportive of protest. They return to session September 7 barring an emergency session, which the situation at the moment wouldn’t really call for - the Chinese military rolling into HK or mowing down protestors might.

Yeah I know a few American politicians have spoken about the situation but just feel overall there is a collective shrug of the shoulders. They were more vocal back when Burma and Thailand were going through their political unrest.

Not to be tin foil hat or anything but I would expect that the CIA have war gamed situations like this in China in the hope someday the people overthrow the Communist Party. In the current world order China cannot be controlled by the hegemon as long as they are under the rule of the CCP. This is an opportunity for the US but its been realtive radio silence from Trump and the administration. I dont think we would have had that from Obama/Bush Jnr/Snr or Clinton. At the end of the day the US (and all of us really) would prefer see China as a representative democracy, I just would have expected the US to be more vocal than they have been .

realitykeeper · 13-08-2019 9:41pm

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

They won't stop fighting for their political freedoms.

If they don`t want to be extradited, they shouldn`t break the law.

Cheerful Spring2 · 13-08-2019 9:45pm

Gatling wrote: »

Trump tweeted saying Chinese military moving to the Hong Kong border

https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1161325870516264961?s=20

He watched Fox News. Chinese themselves showed they were doing this. Trump for some reason thinks he leaking intelligence on twitter

Gatling · 13-08-2019 9:53pm

Cheerful Spring2 wrote: »

He watched Fox News.]

More likely he watched live on Military satallites

Cheerful Spring2 · 13-08-2019 9:59pm

Gatling wrote: »

More likely he watched live on Military satallites

He not announcing anything new. Everyone aware the Chinese are moving forces to the Hong Kong border. They likely released this video as a warning to the protestors who are violent. China tolerated the peaceful protests when it started, now it looking more like a coup to overthrow the Hong Kong government. It Chinese territory.

Gatling · 13-08-2019 10:17pm

Cheerful Spring2 wrote: »

It Chinese territory.

Tell that to the citizens of Hong Kong it's seem the citizens want actual democracy not Chinese rule

archer22 · 13-08-2019 10:26pm

The Chinese government can't allow one of their cities to become a basket case.

They will of course have to move the PLA in if this continues and the Hong Kong authorities are unable to restore the rule of law in the city.
I don't know what those protesters hope to achieve...nobody is going to come to their aid.
All they are doing is wrecking their city and bringing about the early full incorporation of Hong Kong into the PRC.

Yurt2 · 13-08-2019 10:33pm

archer22 wrote: »

The Chinese government can't allow one of their cities to become a basket case.

They will of course have to move the PLA in if this continues and the Hong Kong authorities are unable to restore the rule of law in the city.
I don't know what those protesters hope to achieve...nobody is going to come to their aid.
All they are doing is wrecking their city and bringing about the early full incorporation of Hong Kong into the PRC.

Beijing brought this on themselves.'Politically troublesome' people from the SAR would disappear and magically appear in a mainland gaol confessing their wrongdoings, undermining the rule of law and freedom of speech that HK was accustomed to as well as rigging the already only semi-democratic system in favour of a pliant and supine pro-Beijing wealthy elite of Hong Kongers.

If someone attempted to undermine the fundamental pillars of your country, you'd hardly roll over and take it. Or would you?

SEPT 23 1989 · 13-08-2019 10:36pm

Good to see the flags those kids are flying going into battle

But I see a very bad ending for them if they keep it up

archer22 · 13-08-2019 10:38pm

Yurt! wrote: »

Beijing brought this on themselves.'Politically troublesome' people from the SAR would disappear and magically appear in a mainland gaol confessing their wrongdoings, undermining the rule of law and freedom of speech that HK was accustomed to as well as rigging the already only semi-democratic system in favour of a pliant and supine pro-Beijing wealthy elite of Hong Kongers.

If someone attempted to undermine the fundamental pillars of your country, you'd hardly roll over and take it. Or would you?

You can't have a system where one part of a country becomes a safe haven for criminals fleeing another part...it's ludicrous!.

Of course Hong Kong has to have an extradition system with the rest of the country.

Gatling · 13-08-2019 10:39pm

What are the communist party going to do ,

Deport the whole of Hong Kong once they roll in tanks because they won't be able to pull off a Tienanmen square and wipe it From history this time,
There will be no excuse for posters claiming the China is fighting neo Nazis this time around

Yurt2 · 13-08-2019 10:44pm

archer22 wrote: »

You can't have a system where one part of a country becomes a safe haven for criminals fleeing another part...it's ludicrous!.

Of course Hong Kong has to have an extradition system with the rest of the country.

Mainland China doesn't extradite its nationals to another country or territory (only foreigners), so it's a bogus law that the PRC wouldn't even accept itself.

Would you be happy if Ireland signed an extradition treaty with a country that didn't have separation of powers? Chinese judges do what they are told by the standing committee and provincial party bosses. You couldn't seriously expect the people of Hong Kong to accept such a law. Anyone extradited to the PRC cannot expect even a semblance of a fair trial as we would understand it in the West (or as Hong Kongers know it to be).

archer22 · 13-08-2019 10:46pm

Great for all those western armchair warriors egging on and giving online support to the protesters.

But the armchair warriors know they and their armchairs won't be in front of the PLA when they come rolling in :rolleyes:

Yurt2 · 13-08-2019 10:47pm

archer22 wrote: »

Great for all those western armchair warriors egging on and giving online support to the protesters.

But the armchair warriors know they and their armchairs won't be in front of the PLA when they come rolling in :rolleyes:

You may be surprised what links what some posters have with Hong Kong. Not everyone posts from the Irish timezone. And what's the distinction between what you are saying some posters are doing and you from your armchair telling Hong Kongers to stay docile and accept whatever the PRC dishes out to them? This is their city, their freedoms - they still have a voice and they are using it.

mzungu · 13-08-2019 10:57pm

Hopefully the protests continue. Once China gets its claws fully into Hong Kong there will be no option for protest. The Chinese would be very silly to go in heavy handed. They may have been able to get away with Tiananmen but that kind of thing will not go down well these days. Although, I couldn't see a western intervention if they did.

BlackandGreen · 13-08-2019 10:57pm

The PLA has been spotted gathering on the border near shenzen. Most Hong Kongers are quite dismissive of this. It's largely a propaganda/fear exercise from the PRC.
If anything, it's alarmed so many people and the west that all eyes are now on China. Talks of Tiananmen are rampant again, but in this day and age of information most seem to think China won't do it. Not when all the west is watching.
Things are different now than 1989....I hope. I'm very anxious at this stage.

The airport was shut for 2 days today and we saw repeated violent clashes. Busiest airport in the world totally shut down is going to cause absolute mayhem for trade alone.
A few hours ago a court order was issued to remove the protestors from the airport.
Many are saying they won't leave and will return tomorrow. It's going to get really dirty.

Meanwhile, China is raging an all out information and propaganda war. Both in the mainland where advertisements, notices, and videos are being circulated with either outright fake information depicting the protestors are savages or cropped/edited videos making Hong Kongers out to be the ones responsible for this.

It's really become apparent that Carrie Lam is nothing but a PRC puppet and totally spineless and unable to do anything.
You'd think after months of what is essentially a revolution at this stage that she'd fúcking just withdraw the extradition bill.
But no, she's too busy condeming the protests, acting like all is well, and off visiting PLA army bases to meet troops. I **** you not.

The HK police continue to just lose total control. The beatings continue, and largely have lost control of the situation.
We've seen civilians/non protestors being on the receiving end of beatings and teargas multiple times now.
Most neighborhood residents/non protestors have come out chanting for police to leave when they show up.
Police were dressing up as protestors, which isnt the first time they've used these tactics in recent months.
Over the weekend we've also seen off duty cops, come off the frontlines, go back to the barracks, change into plain clothes and go out and start fights.

We're also seeing a lot of mainland Chinese "agents" attempt to infiltrate the protest groups.
Nursing homes, schools, subway stations, bars/restaurants (the list goes on) have been tear gassed now.
In turn this is causing the protest numbers to grow. More and more Hong Kongers are beginning to realise how much hot shít they're in and are joining.
We're seeing protestors stand up to police more and more. They're not afraid to fight back when the opportunity presents itself.
They're operating on the philosophy of "be water".

https://streamable.com/tv99t
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eJfY4uOvDCI

pearcider wrote: »

Incredible that people would take the side of the communist dictatorship in this.

It's so bizarre to me that western communists and left wingers are backing China on social media. Not all, but a lot of them are.

China is so far removed from left wing ideology. It's a capitalist, authoritarian regime with huge class divide and inequality between the rich and the poor. It practices genocide and a weird type of covert imperialism infiltrating governments and industries tearing them down from the inside until it has them by the balls. See: Africa.

It's a very capitalist superpower. Calling China communist at this stage is just laughable.

All in all....this is very nerve wracking to see happen.

Hong Kong is one of the most amazingly diverse, free and beautiful countries in the world. The people are amazing, and it's such a melting pot of culture and diversity.
It really is miles ahead of mainland China, but unfortunately its being erroded at an alarming rate. The HK now is very VERY different to the HK of 10 or 5 years ago. For the worse.

Violent Protests In Hong Kong.

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