Should I increase the rent? What would you do in this case?

kandoola · 22-11-2014 12:29pm #1

I have an apartment in Swords rented to the same girl for the last 3.5 years or so for €700 a month since day 1.

She lived with her boyfriend until about 1.5 years ago. He left and since about a month after that her current boyfriend lives there.

I suspect the old BF was the type who would fix minor issues and sort things out himself.

Since he moved out I am getting complaints about stuff needing fixing etc at least once a month.

Things like
The shower head is full of limescale.
The microwave isnt heating up food properly.
Need a new mat in the hall. (I never even supplied one in the first place)
The front door is squeaking.
Small ring at the back of the hob is no longer coming on.
Need a new stopper for the kitchen sink.
Windows are dirty.
Hoover is not working.

And threatening to go to the PRTB if I dont sort them all out with two weeks etc. (which i have)

Now all of these things happen in my own house too, but I dont need to go looking for someone else to come and sort them out for me. I could if i wanted, but i dont bother. I fix them myself.

Limescale in showerhead - I put it in a basin of hot water and calgon for a few hours and wash it out. Fixed.
Microwave - i have exactly the same one so i swapped them. I cleaned the one from the apartment and it works perfectly in my house.
Mat - I just go to the local hardware shot and buy one for a tenner.
Doors sqeak - Oil them
Ring on cooker not working. Ive had hobs with only 3 rings working for years in the past. Use the other 3.
Stopper - €1 in the hardware shop.
Windows - Clean them. Ground floor
Hoover not working - Of course no the tube was full of paper and hair. A coat hanger to push them out did the trick.

So I was happy to leave the rent at €700pm while i never heard from them and they werent like my teenage daughter always looking for daddy to do everything for her.
Im now at the point where i am looking at options to make them feel the [pain of their constant nagging for this.

I have a mate who is a professional landlord but i feel his advice is more hard line than i need, so looking for some options here.

I can easily get €950 a month or €1000 - 1050 is more likely for it if i wanted to go through the hassle of letting them move out and then painting it and re-letting it.
Apartment is far bigger than 95% of other apartments in and around the place.

So some options might be

Leave the rent as is but tell them the rent is going up if they come to me with trivial stuff again. Its their choice. Not inclined to do this at this stage.

Put the rent up to €1050 and listen to their complaints and threats to go to the PRTB etc which they wont win. And hope they move out. If they dont move out sure im getting €4200 a year extra so that should ease the pain of the hassle of the trivial stuff. Should I tell them why i put the rent up so they change their opinion of what needs my time in future.

Any other options?

Basically i dont feel the need to increase rent if i never hear from a tenant, but when they cause me stress and time etc then I want to be compensated for it. If I never heard from a tenant at all i would never increase the rent tbh.
If I could get another tenant who would never call me I would be ecstatic. They could stay for 5 years and i wouldnt bother increasing the rent. Its only when i am required to spend time and effort on the apartment that I feel its time for a rent increase (if at the time that option is available to me.). If they dont require my time and effort i dont require anymore money for it.

These two have brought me to that stage.

nxbyveromdwjpg · 22-11-2014 12:35pm

Definitely put it up, that sounds absolutely headwrecking and way beyond the acceptable norm

mikemac1 · 22-11-2014 12:38pm

All are pretty ridiculous apart from the ring on the cooker not working.

I'd ring my landlord for sure about that. I wouldn't be expecting a new cooker but I'd report it as it's an issue and that there are no surprises when I move out and start looking for my full deposit

kandoola · 22-11-2014 12:40pm

I dont know how any landlord could blame you for breaking a ring on a cooker though.
But does it really need to be repaired. Two rings would be different.

kandoola · 22-11-2014 12:43pm

I dont know how any landlord could blame you for breaking a ring on a cooker though.
But does it really need to be repaired. Two rings would be different.

The evil side of me was tempted to replace the hob with a new hob and hand them 28 days notice of a €4200 rent increase at the same time and say it was because I had to replace the hob, i might as well increase the rent. But I snapped it of it

mikemac1 · 22-11-2014 12:43pm

There are good landlords out there and then there are some I've dealt with who would dock your deposit for anything :rolleyes:

Nah, doesn't need a repair if there are 3 left. No more expense for you OP

Dr Turk Turkelton · 22-11-2014 12:48pm

Yeah up it to €1k per month and she will be gone fairly quick especially if she is as quick at finding another apartment as she is at a live in boyfriend!
1 1/2 months from breakup to new fella moving in is some going.

Marcusm · 22-11-2014 12:49pm

kandoola wrote: »

I dont know how any landlord could blame you for breaking a ring on a cooker though.
But does it really need to be repaired. Two rings would be different.

I would agree with you and I suspect most tenants would agree. However, legal minimum standards require a 4 ring job so you'll have to get it sorted at some stage.

.G. · 22-11-2014 12:59pm

I'd be re writing your contract when you up the rent and let it again too. Since when are dirty windows and shower head the responsibility of the landlord? Those are tenant issues, standard upkeep of the property and it's furnishings. Even the other stuff is a joke bar the hob. I'd tell them if a repair man comes out and the issue is found to be down to them not cleaning stuff or their negligence like the microwave issue was they'll be getting charged for his time.

kandoola · 22-11-2014 1:15pm

superg wrote: »

I'd be re writing your contract when you up the rent and let it again too. Since when are dirty windows and shower head the responsibility of the landlord? Those are tenant issues, standard upkeep of the property and it's furnishings. Even the other stuff is a joke bar the hob. I'd tell them if a repair man comes out and the issue is found to be down to them not cleaning stuff or their negligence like the microwave issue was they'll be getting charged for his time.

I wouldnt have thought things like that even need to be in a contract.

I forgot to mention that with the microwave they gave me two weeks to get them a new one or they were going to buy one themselves and deuct from the rent. They even gave me the argos calalogue with one circled that cost €180.
Must have got some shock when they ended up with the same make and model as they had already but second hand

I think the new boyfriend is used to getting every little thing done for him and has not get up and go that you would think most people get after moving away from home. Its since he started taking over the dealings with me that things have become a pain.

I think i'll just get it painted and a new hob and then up the rent to the highest amount possible. I might just get an agent to manage it for me then. They can move out or or dispute it with the PRTB if they want. Only thing now is whether I decide to increase the rent to the max every year. I think normally i wouldnt increase the rent with a itting tenant who was hassle free, but with these two i'll make it a rule.

I was looking at a few agents and even though they all quoted 10 - 12 % of the rent for letting and managing, I got most of them down to 8%. Now to find out which ones are good. I dont see the point of an agent for letting only, but now i do see the point in letting an agent manage the apartment. At least then i'll only be needed if anything major needs approval.

Arbiter of Good Taste · 22-11-2014 1:16pm

The hob is the only thing that's your responsibility. Let them go to the PRTB about the other stuff and see how far they get.

If €1,050 is market rent, then go for it. Paint the place, relet it and don't look back. Life's too short for this kind of carry on.

BTW is the new guy on the lease? If not, why are you even engaging with him?

Qualitymark · 22-11-2014 1:20pm

Would you not talk to her? It sounds as if she (or her boyfriend) thinks you're the mammy, not the landlord!

Aren't interior problems to be fixed by the tenant, exterior by the landlord?

And she should pay you, surely, for replacement of the microwave and mending the hob, which seem to have broken while she's the tenant? (Assuming they were of good quality in the first place.)

As for the dirty windows… the mind boggles.

theteal · 22-11-2014 1:30pm

OP you're nurturing the beast by giving in to some of those ridiculous demands. You shouldn't be at a loss for windows and shower heads, you should be docking their deposit as they're not keeping up their end of the bargain in keeping the house clean. Will they be looking for light bulbs next? You need to say "no".

Kick that rent up to the maximum!

kandoola · 22-11-2014 1:30pm

Qualitymark wrote: »

Would you not talk to her? It sounds as if she (or her boyfriend) thinks you're the mammy, not the landlord!

Aren't interior problems to be fixed by the tenant, exterior by the landlord?

And she should pay you, surely, for replacement of the microwave and mending the hob, which seem to have broken while she's the tenant? (Assuming they were of good quality in the first place.)

As for the dirty windows… the mind boggles.

I thought i was pretty easy going, but i expect an easy life in return.

She rented on her own first and I didnt mind her having her boyfriend move in, or the new one either. I didnt want to be the mammy there either.

But since I now have a new job as a mammy im going to make them pay me for the privilege.

I think i wont bother painting. I'll just get a new hob in and up the rent to €1050.

I fear I know exactly whats going to happen then. They'll threaten the PRTB and will follow through. I'll end up taking a day off work with the PRTB and they will move out without paying the arrears when the PRTB find against them.

When they move out i'll redecorate.

Everything is so weighed against the landlord its unreal.
Then the whole water charge debacle to come too.

Ranjo · 22-11-2014 2:02pm

Is she on a fixed term contract? You can't change the rent during the contract.

She has some pretty decent rights OP so before you go gung-ho on upping the rent make sure you know what you're in for.

If she is approachable then have a chat and say you kept the rent low as she was previously a good tenant. That has changed and you have to consider setting the rent at market value when her contract is up.

She must simply not be aware of what is her accountability and what is yours. Level set with her and you'll avoid it going down the legal/PRTB route which you don't want if she's still occupying your place.

Deub · 22-11-2014 2:06pm

These tenants make me angry. They abuse your kindness but who will pay the most at the end? The next tenants that may be good tenants. You really should charge them if you fix something that is their responsibility.

LorMal · 22-11-2014 2:08pm

kandoola wrote: »

If I could get another tenant who would never call me I would be ecstatic. They could stay for 5 years and i wouldnt bother increasing the rent. Its only when i am required to spend time and effort on the apartment that I feel its time for a rent increase (if at the time that option is available to me.). If they dont require my time and effort i dont require anymore money for it.

These two have brought me to that stage.

Same girl renting your place for that long - minimum hassle? Count yourself very lucky and stop looking for an excuse to exploit the situation.
Sooner we bring in rent control into this country, the better.

.G. · 22-11-2014 2:13pm

kandoola wrote:

I wouldnt have thought things like that even need to be in a contract.

Your contract should be very specific as to who is responsible for what. Some people will happily take the piss if they are let as you are finding out.

groovyg · 22-11-2014 2:16pm

Op its fair enough you are easy going and want an easy life but they are taking the complete pi$$, a new mat for the hall way? They should buy this themselves and take it with them when they leave.
Also since the lease is with her only surely the terms of conditions of the lease have changed now since there are now two people living in the apartment?
You should increase the rent to over a grand or more and probably should have done so when her first boyfriend moved in as well. As there are two people in the apartment isn't there likely to be more wear and tear?

Mrs OBumble · 22-11-2014 2:18pm

Dr Turk Turkelton wrote: »

1 1/2 months from breakup to new fella moving in is some going.

No one would turn an eye to a lad moving one gf out and the next in in that timeframe. Can't see why it's any different for a woman.

kandoola wrote: »

Windows are dirty.

This alone would cause me to up the rent to market rates, and inform her that you are now doing three-monthly inspections.

The other thing you mentioned are stupidity at work, this one is pure laziness, and indicates that she is probably not keeping the rest of the place clean.

UCDVet · 22-11-2014 2:21pm

Ranjo wrote: »

Is she on a fixed term contract? You can't change the rent during the contract.

She has some pretty decent rights OP so before you go gung-ho on upping the rent make sure you know what you're in for.

If she is approachable then have a chat and say you kept the rent low as she was previously a good tenant. That has changed and you have to consider setting the rent at market value when her contract is up.

She must simply not be aware of what is her accountability and what is yours. Level set with her and you'll avoid it going down the legal/PRTB route which you don't want if she's still occupying your place.

Correct me if I'm wrong - but if she's on a fixed term contract, she can't bring new people into her residence without notifying/approval from the landlord. That would give the landlord the right to either say, 'No, he can't move in' or to renegotiate the terms.

At least, that's what I've always been told.

groovyg · 22-11-2014 2:29pm

LorMal wrote: »

Same girl renting your place for that long - minimum hassle? Count yourself very lucky and stop looking for an excuse to exploit the situation.
Sooner we bring in rent control into this country, the better.

If anyone is being exploited at the minute its the landlord. If appliances that come with the apartment break down like the cooker, microwave, washing machine, boiler, fridge etc then the tenant should contact the landlord and request them to be replaced. However limescale on the shower head, putting a mat in the hallway and oiling door hinges are really not the responsibility of the landlord. If a tenant doesn't know how to treat limescale or put a some oil on a creaky door then maybe they should move back home to live with their parents!

Dr Turk Turkelton · 22-11-2014 2:52pm

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

No one would turn an eye to a lad moving one gf out and the next in in that timeframe. Can't see why it's any different for a woman.

Of course someone "turn an eye" to a lad doing it the exact same way if it was a woman.
It's the six weeks that is an unusual timeframe to know someone well enough to move in with them.
I think there is enough threads in AH about sexism and misogyny without looking for it on every forum.

Arbiter of Good Taste · 22-11-2014 3:02pm

LorMal wrote: »

Same girl renting your place for that long - minimum hassle? Count yourself very lucky and stop looking for an excuse to exploit the situation.
Sooner we bring in rent control into this country, the better.

The whole point of the OP is that she is causing a lot of hassle. Or are you just being wilfully blind?

What does rent control have to do with this? The OP is entitled to receive market rent. Out of a sense of goodwill to his tenant he has been charging below market rent. The tenant is now exploiting him. Who is being wronged in this scenario?

Arbiter of Good Taste · 22-11-2014 3:03pm

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

No one would turn an eye to a lad moving one gf out and the next in in that timeframe. Can't see why it's any different for a

Can we not make this into a sexism thread please?

As a landlord, I would not want any tenant - male or female - moving new people in on a regular basis.

smcgiff · 22-11-2014 3:07pm

Sounds like the new boyfriend is the problem, who may be living rent free (no increase since he moved in).

They seem like fools risking a good thing.

Even at 1,000 that's only €500 each per month (if boyfriend stays).

ted1 · 22-11-2014 3:10pm

Up the rent, tell them to ckean the windows themselves,

leinsterdude · 22-11-2014 3:14pm

If they were no hassle, then leave the rent, sound like fools, put it up I think !

Lemming · 22-11-2014 3:38pm

I'm going to go against the grain here (slightly) in saying that if it were me, I probably wouldn't up the rent to the max that you think you can get (€1050) considering the rent is currently €700. Bear with me here before you think this is some sort of tenants vs. evil landlords rant.

On paper that increase is roughly 50% increase in rent, which if put before the PRTB would definitely raise a few eyebrows and make life awkward. Unless you can line up several watertight ducks in a row to shoot that line of enquiry down I'd be more inclined to up the rent, but fly under the radar with it and with a view to upping the rent the following year if they're still there and still causing you grief. Yes it's a bit more of a long-term view, but one that is less likely to cause grief with the PRTB.

Edit: as someone else has already suggested, if the current boyfriend is not on the lease, why are you entertaining him?

quadrifoglio verde · 22-11-2014 3:42pm

Lemming wrote: »

I'm going to go against the grain here (slightly) in saying that if it were me, I probably wouldn't up the rent to the max that you think you can get (€1050) considering the rent is currently €700. Bear with me here before you think this is some sort of tenants vs. evil landlords rant.

On paper that increase is roughly 50% increase in rent, which if put before the PRTB would definitely raise a few eyebrows and make life awkward. Unless you can line up several watertight ducks in a row to shoot that line of enquiry down I'd be more inclined to up the rent, but fly under the radar with it and with a view to upping the rent the following year if they're still there and still causing you grief. Yes it's a bit more of a long-term view, but one that is less likely to cause grief with the PRTB.

Edit: as someone else has already suggested, if the current boyfriend is not on the lease, why are you entertaining him?

If it's a 50% increase or 100% it doesn't matter, once it's in line with what the op would get from another tenant, I.e the market rate

Lemming · 22-11-2014 3:44pm

quadrifoglio verde wrote: »

If it's a 50% increase or 100% it doesn't matter, once it's in line with what the op would get from another tenant, I.e the market rate

I seem to recall something about limits on the amount that a LL can expect to raise rent by in any given twelve-month period to a sitting tenant (as opposed to leasing to a new tenant)? I freely admit to being open to correction on that as it may well have been something I picked up wrong.

wyndham · 22-11-2014 5:39pm

Give them notice to vacate on the pretext that you want to sell/use the apartment for a family member. Then relet at market rate.

The_Morrigan · 22-11-2014 5:45pm

wyndham wrote: »

Give them notice to vacate on the pretext that you want to sell/use the apartment for a family member. Then relet at market rate.

yeah don't do that.

And please don't come in here and give legally dubious advice that may get the OP in trouble down the line. The RTA allows for damages in the case of abuse of the section 34 terminations (ie for use of a family member)

/Mod.

BorneTobyWilde · 22-11-2014 5:45pm

Tell her that if they expect you to be on call to fix every little thing
ie My tea needs an extra spoon of sugar, be a dear and come around and add another spoon'' then the rent is going up to 1000 a month.

Rubberchikken · 22-11-2014 5:48pm

if she's been a good tenant al along, could you speak with her?
is the new bf on the lease?

i agree, that most of the things listed are silly things that can be fixed very simply. the fact that these are suddently an issue with new bf on the scene, makes me think he's either a lazy sod or one of life's major whiners.

Arbiter of Good Taste · 22-11-2014 5:53pm

quadrifoglio verde wrote: »

If it's a 50% increase or 100% it doesn't matter, once it's in line with what the op would get from another tenant, I.e the market rate

I thing the point Lemming is making is that even if it's well within market rates, there's a risk the tenants will go to the PRTB - Christ, they are already threatening to do it if he doesn't come over and wipe their ar$es! This way, the OP is not much worse off and hopefully will avoid the hassle of a PRTB case.

Supercell · 22-11-2014 5:56pm

Op you need to think about this as a business decision, you are in this as a business man not a charity.
The only reason landlords usually allow tenants to stay at below market rents is because it benefits both parties. Good tenants that pay on time, don't call to call for squeaky doors and blocked vacuum cleaners (WTF??!!) etc are good business.
This girl is taking the piss and yet you are effectively gifting her about €300 a month, tell you what, if you are so loaded, I'v a few windows that could use a clean and you only have to give me €150 euro a month, sounds like a bargain!!, let me know if interested and I'll pm you my bank details...

In the market at the moment there are plenty of good people that would love to have a nice place at a decent price, up the rent and be rid of her in all likelihood and with more money and less hassle long term, no brainer.

handlemaster · 22-11-2014 6:00pm

Up to market rate. Shes not the tenant that she was. Is new guy on contract ? Were u informed ? Threating to withold rent etc...not on. Up rent your doing yourself no favours

gubbie · 22-11-2014 6:06pm

superg wrote: »

I'd be re writing your contract when you up the rent and let it again too. Since when are dirty windows and shower head the responsibility of the landlord? Those are tenant issues, standard upkeep of the property and it's furnishings.

It was written in my old contract that the insides of the windows were my responsibility, but the outsides were the landlords

I'd up the rent too, giving the reasons that it's market rate and there are now two people living their, so twice the wear and tear.

kandoola · 22-11-2014 6:27pm

Yeah, im going to up the rent to the max and they can go to the PRTB if they want. PRTB is every second word out of their mouth these days anyway.

Im going to put in a new up and get an agent to run the place.

Ie She used to be a model tenant. ie kept the place very clean and i never heard from her. So I was only to happy to return the favour.

She still keeps it clean, but a month never goes by without multiple calls about minor insignificant stuff.
If they move out fine. If they stay fine because an extra €4000 a year helps with the hassle.

I just feel guilty now about what was once a nice relationship turning sour. But there you have it.

I guess the bottom line is that their efforts to get me to do stuff they didnt actually have to annoy me about at all has cost them €4000 a year. And my once peaceful, effortless rental has become one of effort.

firestarter51 · 22-11-2014 6:29pm

if its only one name on the lease is the contact not being broken
i know someone who moved her fella in but contact was only for her so he had to provide references and get his name on the lease
landlord had previously had a drug dealer in one house, turned his attic into a grow house
cant blame him for being cautious

if contact is broken, say it to her and ask why all the petty things are cropping up
put it to her about a rent increase, she will more than likely stop the silly requests
a new doormat lol

anncoates · 22-11-2014 6:33pm

We let out a house and I'm flabbergasted that a tenant would complain about dirty windows to the landlord and that you would clean them.

Our tenant is on a low rent too but she's a dream tenant to be fair.

She's taking advantage of you and I wouldn't be inclined to be giving her any breaks on the rent.

mikemac1 · 22-11-2014 6:34pm

Maybe you don't need an agent

You only have one property, you're an amateur landlord and if your next tenants work out well then an agent is pocketing money for doing not much at all

kandoola · 22-11-2014 9:08pm

mikemac1 wrote: »

Maybe you don't need an agent

You only have one property, you're an amateur landlord and if your next tenants work out well then an agent is pocketing money for doing not much at all

True but its only 4% after tax and the rent is going up by 50% so ill still be better off.
I'll gladly pay that rather than have to field so many calls again.
Have to find a good one first though.

Qualitymark · 23-11-2014 10:15am

OP, you sound like you're doing a better job than an agent would.
I'd be inclined to say to your tenant, "OK, if you'd like, we can go to the PRTB together. We used to have a good arrangement, but in the last year something seems to have gone very wrong. I'm renting you this flat below market rates, and you're asking me to do far more than is normal for a landlord. With any luck, the PRTB will assess the rent as too low, and allow me to raise it, and require you to pay me back for all the things I've bought and mended that are normally a tenant's responsibility."

jc84 · 23-11-2014 10:27am

Shocked at the tenants requests, up her rent to the max, you'd think she'd be trying to stay on your good side when getting the rent so cheap compared to other places!

kandoola · 23-11-2014 10:42am

Qualitymark wrote: »

OP, you sound like you're doing a better job than an agent would.
I'd be inclined to say to your tenant, "OK, if you'd like, we can go to the PRTB together. We used to have a good arrangement, but in the last year something seems to have gone very wrong. I'm renting you this flat below market rates, and you're asking me to do far more than is normal for a landlord. With any luck, the PRTB will assess the rent as too low, and allow me to raise it, and require you to pay me back for all the things I've bought and mended that are normally a tenant's responsibility."

Im past caring now.
The less I have to do with her the better.
And I used to think she was great, but now I see that anyone can turn into a pain if they are easily influenced.

Reminds me of when my brother got rear ended in his car last year with me in the passenger seat. Little scratch on the bumper, the other guy agreed to pay and all was sorted.
My brother comes home from work the next day and all of a sudden he has whiplash and is going through yer mans insurance and telling me what to say and that i should say i have whiplash and am in shock.
I put that down to he was fine until the people in work started on him to follow it up and get a few quid. Told him if to get lost and have a think about what he was doing. He couldnt go ahead without me in on it so he dropped it.

Some people are easily led, but thats their own faults.

kandoola · 23-11-2014 10:44am

jc84 wrote: »

Shocked at the tenants requests, up her rent to the max, you'd think she'd be trying to stay on your good side when getting the rent so cheap compared to other places!

Dont think she even realizes what a good deal she has. Hell i didnt even realize it til she made me look at getting agents and look around to see what i could get if she did move out because of her whining.

UCDVet · 23-11-2014 6:05pm

kandoola wrote: »

Dont think she even realizes what a good deal she has. Hell i didnt even realize it til she made me look at getting agents and look around to see what i could get if she did move out because of her whining.

There is a lot of truth to this. As a tenant, if I'm not looking to move, I don't know what the market-rates are.

I was at my last place for a few years and the landlord didn't increase rent. I didn't think much of it; until I tried to move. Then I saw what the landlord could have been charging and I was, suddenly, very grateful.

SteelyDanJalapeno · 24-11-2014 2:57am

Something with a similar but different perspective here,

I live in a house with 2 others for 2 years paying a market average rent and we've only ever asked the landlord to fix the toilet plumbing as it wasn't flushing properly, other than that we look after the house ourselves.

LL came to me last month informing of a rental increase of 8%, do you think its now fair that we have him work a bit for the rental increase we'll be paying, and let him know it was a mistake.

There's plenty things that we'd have covered like boiler servicing mattress changes due, wear and tear around building, replacing dodgy washing machine etc, it will some cost him more than what he's expecting with the increae

biketard · 24-11-2014 3:42am

Just to add, OP, the fact that her boyfriend has moved in is more significant than just "more hassle". More tenants means more wear and tear. It means higher humidity levels, increasing the risk of damp. It means the microwave oven and the hobs are getting a lot more use, etc. Additionally, if you have landlord's insurance, it could affect your rates too. It's completely fair for you to expect a higher rent because of this.

Should I increase the rent? What would you do in this case?

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