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NPPR has not been declared

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2

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    #32
    lifestooshort
    Registered Users Posts: 15 ✭lifestooshort


    always going to find a 'maintenance man' you can trust (everyone is trying to earn a bit of extra dough these days). You sell the house after 31 March 2025. You don't want to return to Ireland and you are happy and healthy enough to retire wherever else your heart desires. Too simpleminded?


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    #33
    The_Conductor
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 32,279 Mod ✭✭✭✭The_Conductor


    lifestooshort wrote: »
    always going to find a 'maintenance man' you can trust (everyone is trying to earn a bit of extra dough these days). You sell the house after 31 March 2025. You don't want to return to Ireland and you are happy and healthy enough to retire wherever else your heart desires. Too simpleminded?

    Ok- thats the NPPR (which doesn't even exist anymore). What about the Local Property tax- which is the remit of the Revenue Commissioners- and the new State Collection Agency- what you're proposing really doesn't stack up. Nice try though.


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    #34
    lifestooshort
    Registered Users Posts: 15 ✭lifestooshort


    Tigger wrote: »
    True but Revenue wil collect before 12 years pass

    Thanks Tigger. Re collecting NPPR before 12 years pass - do you mean the Revenue Section of the Local Authority or do you mean Revenue Commissioners? Revenue.ie state that the NPPR collection is the responsibility of the Local Authority. Or have things changed and the Local Authority is turning it over to Revenue Commissioners? I know the LPT is the responsibility of Irish Revenue.


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    #35
    Tigger
    Closed Accounts Posts: 16,707 ✭✭✭✭Tigger


    lifestooshort wrote: »
    Thanks Tigger. Re collecting NPPR before 12 years pass - do you mean the Revenue Section of the Local Authority or do you mean Revenue Commissioners? Revenue.ie state that the NPPR collection is the responsibility of the Local Authority. Or have things changed and the Local Authority is turning it over to Revenue Commissioners? I know the LPT is the responsibility of Irish Revenue.

    no i was thinking of the lpt
    sorry


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    #36
    lifestooshort
    Registered Users Posts: 15 ✭lifestooshort


    Tigger wrote: »
    no i was thinking of the lpt
    sorry

    Thanks, no worries.


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    #37
    jack_pearse
    Registered Users Posts: 120 ✭✭jack_pearse


    Am I right in saying that from 31st oct 2021 the charge and fines for 2009 will no longer apply to the property? And 31st march 2022 they will no longer apply for the 2010 charge etc?


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    #38
    lifestooshort
    Registered Users Posts: 15 ✭lifestooshort


    jack_pearse wrote: »
    Am I right in saying that from 31st oct 2021 the charge and fines for 2009 will no longer apply to the property? And 31st march 2022 they will no longer apply for the 2010 charge etc?

    Am not sure about that - from reading the report, I was under the impression that the years from 2009 to 2013 were going to be addressed collectively and the charges for all those years inclusively was going to be scrapped on the one date of 31 March 2025. The report suggests that it will be 12 years from the year the NPPR charged ended in 2013. Apologies if this sounds confusing - it took me about two days to find the information and then figure it out!! Also of note - revenue commissioners do not want to have anything to do with collecting this outstanding NPPR charge: they are adamant that its up to the local authority. Revenue commissioners are responsible for the LPT (local property tax) only.


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    #39
    The_Conductor
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 32,279 Mod ✭✭✭✭The_Conductor


    lifestooshort wrote: »
    Also of note - revenue commissioners do not want to have anything to do with collecting this outstanding NPPR charge: they are adamant that its up to the local authority. Revenue commissioners are responsible for the LPT (local property tax) only.

    Correct.
    The current proposal is that the Local Authorities who are having difficulty in collecting payments will allowed pass the collection over to the new State Collection's Agency (who will handle all manner of payment collections- including delinquint A&E charges for the HSE etc etc etc).


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    #40
    lifestooshort
    Registered Users Posts: 15 ✭lifestooshort


    The_Conductor wrote: »
    Correct.
    The current proposal is that the Local Authorities who are having difficulty in collecting payments will allowed pass the collection over to the new State Collection's Agency (who will handle all manner of payment collections- including delinquint A&E charges for the HSE etc etc etc).

    I didn't know there was a new State Collection Agency already set up - I was aware of discussions taking place about setting it up. I have tried to access its website regarding its policies and procedures but can't find same.


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    #41
    The_Conductor
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 32,279 Mod ✭✭✭✭The_Conductor


    Its not up and running yet- there are submissions being made by the State agencies at present.


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    #42
    Frust
    Registered Users Posts: 1 ✭Frust


    DId anyone contact the authorities and try and do a deal with them. I owe the full wack and do not have the money to pay it. Thanks


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    #43
    lifestooshort
    Registered Users Posts: 15 ✭lifestooshort


    The_Conductor wrote: »
    Its not up and running yet- there are submissions being made by the State agencies at present.

    ok, thanks. it will be interesting to see if this agency is sanctioned before the forthcoming general election - then again, what does any government (past or present) care? they still get their pensions after their little 'stints' in power and whatever communist regime we are governed by will still be bowing down to Europe. So lets pay all the money and taxes and fines and you never know - we may acquire the same lifestyles and health/welfare services as Germany, Sweden, Holland etc.


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    #44
    muggles
    Registered Users Posts: 332 ✭✭muggles


    Frust wrote: »
    DId anyone contact the authorities and try and do a deal with them. I owe the full wack and do not have the money to pay it. Thanks

    I was wondering the same thing (not for myself thankfully) but for an elderly aunt living in UK who has a home here (not let). Not that the specifics are relevant. She was made aware of the charge and didn't pay it when she should have. I do however feel sympathy for her, and all others, who are now facing a liability of over €4,000. The penalty charges are without doubt severe.

    Does anyone have any experience or heard on a settlement being reached with the local authorities. I don't mean in terms of a payment plan but rather a lump sum payment - say here's €3,000 as full and final liability??


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    #45
    garhjw
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,424 ✭✭✭garhjw


    Frust wrote: »
    DId anyone contact the authorities and try and do a deal with them. I owe the full wack and do not have the money to pay it. Thanks

    did you receive any correspondance from the local authority recently about the outstanding NPPR or do you just know you owe it? i think they have to have people in place to work out payment plans etc.

    good luck


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    #46
    jack_pearse
    Registered Users Posts: 120 ✭✭jack_pearse


    (2) The said property shall not, as against a bona fide purchaser for full consideration in money or money’s worth or a mortgagee, remain charged with or liable to the payment of such unpaid charge or late payment fee after the expiration of 12 years from the date upon which the amount concerned fell due.

    This is what the legislation says (above), it's unclear to me wether the it's 12 years from 2009 for the first missed payment or 12 years from the year the NPPR charge ended in 2013 for the collective payment. How do other people interpret this?


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    #47
    The_Conductor
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 32,279 Mod ✭✭✭✭The_Conductor


    jack_pearse wrote: »
    (2) The said property shall not, as against a bona fide purchaser for full consideration in money or money’s worth or a mortgagee, remain charged with or liable to the payment of such unpaid charge or late payment fee after the expiration of 12 years from the date upon which the amount concerned fell due.

    This is what the legislation says (above), it's unclear to me wether the it's 12 years from 2009 for the first missed payment or 12 years from the year the NPPR charge ended in 2013 for the collective payment. How do other people interpret this?

    When is the date of application of the last penalty or late payment fee applying to the payments due? Add 12 years to it. Its the date the last penalties are added to the unpaid NPPR- not the date on which the NPPR itself was due, +12 years.


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    #48
    Philcan
    Registered Users Posts: 39 ✭Philcan


    Anyone heard of local authorities sending out NPPR letters looking for an incorrect amount?

    A person I know has 2 NPPR properties and did not pay the NPPR charge for either property. She received a letter recently looking for approx 20k (when it should be 4220 * 2).


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    #49
    Samsgirl
    Registered Users Posts: 3,191 ✭✭✭Samsgirl


    Arbiter of Good Taste wrote: »
    But surely if they were living in the house on 31 March 2013, then it was their principal private residence at the relevant date and as such the charge wouldn't apply for that year?

    You are 100% correct there!! I registered on the nppr website & because we were still living there as our ppr on 31/03/13 we have no liability!!


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    #50
    Arbiter of Good Taste
    Registered Users Posts: 2,200 ✭✭✭Arbiter of Good Taste


    Samsgirl wrote: »
    You are 100% correct there!! I registered on the nppr website & because we were still living there as our ppr on 31/03/13 we have no liability!!


    That is the view I took because to me it is very clear from the legislation that you look at the position at 31 March 2013. I emailed DCC to confirm and I got an automated response telling me that they are busy and will reply in 2 weeks!!!!:eek:

    Not good enough.


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    #51
    garhjw
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,424 ✭✭✭garhjw


    Arbiter of Good Taste wrote: »
    That is the view I took because to me it is very clear from the legislation that you look at the position at 31 March 2013. I emailed DCC to confirm and I got an automated response telling me that they are busy and will reply in 2 weeks!!!!:eek:

    Not good enough.

    based on my previous experience with questions on the household charge, I think 2 weeks is optimistic. I was waiting almost 6 week earlier thus year!


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    #52
    Arbiter of Good Taste
    Registered Users Posts: 2,200 ✭✭✭Arbiter of Good Taste


    garhjw wrote: »
    based on my previous experience with questions on the household charge, I think 2 weeks is optimistic. I was waiting almost 6 week earlier thus year!
    :eek::eek::eek:


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    #53
    Arbiter of Good Taste
    Registered Users Posts: 2,200 ✭✭✭Arbiter of Good Taste


    garhjw wrote: »
    based on my previous experience with questions on the household charge, I think 2 weeks is optimistic. I was waiting almost 6 week earlier thus year!

    In case anyone is still interested, I got a response from NPPR today (3 months after the original email). "Hurrah" you say? Not so fast.....The just emailed me to say:

    "Please note we have received your email, however due to the large volume of enquiries there is a backlog. Your query will be dealt with in due course and as speedily as possible. It would be very much appreciated if you did not send any further emails unless requested by this office as this may delay the process of clearing the backlog".

    Seriously? It's been three months already


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    #54
    ABajaninCork
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,411 ✭✭✭ABajaninCork


    lifestooshort wrote: »
    But it may be of help to all the emigrants who lost their jobs and are trying to make a living for themselves in UK, Canada, Australia, Dubai etc and cannot afford to come home until 15 to 20 years time. I don't know how revenue can chase them outside of the Irish jurisdiction and at least its one less charge for them to worry about when they do return to retire?

    Doesn't the LA have the authority to attach a charge to the property?


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    #55
    hfallada
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,180 ✭✭✭hfallada


    Arbiter of Good Taste wrote: »
    That is the view I took because to me it is very clear from the legislation that you look at the position at 31 March 2013. I emailed DCC to confirm and I got an automated response telling me that they are busy and will reply in 2 weeks!!!!:eek:

    Not good enough.

    Most state bodies aim to get to you within 2 weeks. Its the norm in them. Like Dublin bus usually takes 2 weeks to get a response


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    #56
    Arbiter of Good Taste
    Registered Users Posts: 2,200 ✭✭✭Arbiter of Good Taste


    hfallada wrote: »
    Most state bodies aim to get to you within 2 weeks. Its the norm in them. Like Dublin bus usually takes 2 weeks to get a response

    But three months just to say they will get back to me at some point?


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    #57
    garhjw
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,424 ✭✭✭garhjw


    Arbiter of Good Taste wrote: »
    But three months just to say they will get back to me at some point?

    I'll be very surprised if the actually answer the query to your satisfaction when they do respond.

    They must be snowed under dealing issues on this.

    Will be interesting to see if there are any challenges in court on the proportionality of the late payment penalties.


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    #58
    Arbiter of Good Taste
    Registered Users Posts: 2,200 ✭✭✭Arbiter of Good Taste


    garhjw wrote: »
    I'll be very surprised if the actually answer the query to your satisfaction when they do respond.

    They must be snowed under dealing issues on this.

    Will be interesting to see if there are any challenges in court on the proportionality of the late payment penalties.

    Colleague of mine got a demand for €7,0000 for a property she didn't own at the time NPPR applied


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    #59
    garhjw
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,424 ✭✭✭garhjw


    Arbiter of Good Taste wrote: »
    Colleague of mine got a demand for €7,0000 for a property she didn't own at the time NPPR applied

    I have heard a couple of similar stories. I get the impression they just sent letters hoping to get people as opposed to actually knowing what they were doing. Didn't give a sh*t about the stress and worry this could cause people.


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    #60
    Daintydoll1
    Registered Users Posts: 34 ✭Daintydoll1


    garhjw wrote: »
    I'll be very surprised if the actually answer the query to your satisfaction when they do respond.

    They must be snowed under dealing issues on this.

    Will be interesting to see if there are any challenges in court on the proportionality of the late payment penalties.

    Would anyone have any idea how I could find out about any such challenges?
    I was subject to total backlog + fine 4220, had been mistakenly advised by an accountant that I was not liable for the charge as it was the only property I owned.
    I know it's self assessment + my hard luck, and to be fair I don't mind paying the 5 yrs owed + some element of a fine (even 100%fine) but i do feel the fine of 3220 is punitive and unfair. I have had to enter a payment arrangement over 2.5 years as couldn't afford to pay any other way.
    Having spoken to a solicitor and (new!) accountant they both say once there's one challenge the floodgates will open. They actually felt the LAs wouldn't let challenge go to court for fear they'd lose!
    If anyone could shed light on how I could find out about challenges/ proposed challenges I'd be very grateful


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    #61
    Arbiter of Good Taste
    Registered Users Posts: 2,200 ✭✭✭Arbiter of Good Taste


    Daintydoll1 wrote: »
    Would anyone have any idea how I could find out about any such challenges?
    I was subject to total backlog + fine 4220, had been mistakenly advised by an accountant that I was not liable for the charge as it was the only property I owned.
    I know it's self assessment + my hard luck, and to be fair I don't mind paying the 5 yrs owed + some element of a fine (even 100%fine) but i do feel the fine of 3220 is punitive and unfair. I have had to enter a payment arrangement over 2.5 years as couldn't afford to pay any other way.
    Having spoken to a solicitor and (new!) accountant they both say once there's one challenge the floodgates will open. They actually felt the LAs wouldn't let challenge go to court for fear they'd lose!
    If anyone could shed light on how I could find out about challenges/ proposed challenges I'd be very grateful
    What did your engagement letter with your old accountant say. I would be looking for compensation for his wrong advice


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