Pyrite & Ireland

My brother is looking at a property in hansfield clonee atm. Afaik there is an ongoing situation regarding a house in Ongar across the way. A Database would make a massive difference with knowing before you buy or even look.

Is there an existing Db or is there a way of checking up on ongoing issues?

Tell tale visual signs are:

External: Cracks at windows, cracks in the plinths at DPC level, sulphates=cloudy white covering on the bricks.

Internal: Cracked floor tiles, timber flooring distorted, doors sticking, doors catching on the floor when you open the door, cracked ceilings, off level flooring, distorted worktops in the kitchen, cracks on the walls above doorway(diagonal cracking) . All of this manifests on the ground floor. Ignore cracking upstairs.

The only way to prove you have Pyrite is to have the stone infill below the floor tested for it-this means coring through the floor concrete and taking stone away for chemical and X ray testing.

I was speaking to a chap a little while back who works in this area. Apparently you can get a 'test' done which involved drilling into your floor and costs €3000 to undertake. If the pyrite is 'active' then work needs to be done and in most cases the house insurance policy is covering this it seems. However, if it is inactive they wont touch it and the cost of the test is yours to absorb.

In terms of a map it would be a great resource but would effectively destroy the sell ability of every estate it mentioned if that level of detail was included.

Probably a 'by county' counter would be the most detail that could be provided and any details would need to be carefully restricted and made non accessible even if they are allegedly mentioned on the internet or in the public domain.

As an aside €3000 is too expensive. Two cores with proper test lab analysis is €2200 from IGSL. Some are charging €2200 for only one core.

There is no hard and fast rule as to when Pyrite will activate. It can take years and it can be very quick.

I have surveyed many houses with Pyrite in them over the last two years and in some cases adjoining houses which would have been built at the same time were chalk and cheese in terms of damage levels in each one.

Don't expect any swift actions from the redress board-its going to be a slow, long process.

sugarmonkey wrote: »

the house was built in 1998

I've read it takes about 10 years to show up so you should get a surveyor's report and investigate further if they find anything.

Disclaimer: I am not an expert, an engineer, builder etc.

The only way to be certain if there are no visual signs of structural damage is to get a core drill test done. This involves an engineering company drilling down through the floor and concrete slab in at least two locations for an average 3/4 bed semi (the number of sample locations required depends on the size of the house) and removing a few kg of infill to take away for analysis. It takes a few weeks for the lab results to come back but it will give you a clear indication if pyrite is present. If the material fails the first chemical analysis a more detailed (x-ray defraction?) test can be performed to determine the exact concentrations (I do not know the test process in detail just what I have been told so please take this information with a pinch of salt).

There is a scale for pyrite - if the house is clear or has acceptable amounts of pyrite (green) or pyrite present above the threshold but no structural damage visible (amber) or pyrite present with clear signs of structural damage (red). Houses are also graded category 1 is amber and category 2 is red.

If you are looking to secure a mortgage on the property your bank will require a green cert if there are indications of pyrite contamination in the estate or surrounding area. In fact anyone buying a house built during the boom years and even possibly before should be requesting a green cert from the vendor. The test itself costs upwards of €1700 and the flooring material needs to be replaced where the bore holes are. Many people are unfortunate to not have kept spare tiles.

In terms of pyrite damage there is no clear time frame - some say at least 10 years but experience varies and others say anything up to 40 years before a judgement could be made that the presence of high levels of pyrite is not likely to damage the property. There is simply no clear rule and every case is different. It is worth looking at the experience of Canada on this front.

It also depends on the construction of the house whether the ground slab was poured on top of the affected infill or if the house is a suspended slab and is not in contact with the infill. This is possibly why in a pyrite affected estate one house can be severely damaged while a neighboring property is not showing any signs yet is likely to have pyrite present in the infill as well.

If you are in any way concerned about pyrite the only way to be 100% certain is to retain a proper engineering company to do the test. A visual survey is not sufficient to be certain that a property is unaffected.

This is just my two cents on this topic, maybe those with professional experience can offer better information than I have. I won't comment on the half arsed approach of the government to addressing victims of cowboy builders or the complete lack of regulation and oversight of the building sector that allowed this to happen in the first place.

No problem - just one more point since you're looking in Dunboyne. Developments in Meath are one of the regions particularly at risk of pyrite issues. It's worth looking at the report of the Pyrite Panel which looks at where infill with pyritic content came from:

http://www.pyriteboard.ie/Pyrite/media/Pyrite/Updated/Report-of-Pyrite-Panel-June-2012.pdf

If I were you I would ask the following questions upfront before bidding:

1) Has the vendor obtained a green cert for the property? If not will they provide one?
2) Is your estate agent or the vendor aware of pyrite in nearby estates or the estate you are looking to buy in? Get this in writing if possible.
3) Is the property detached, semi-detached or mid-terrace? This will have implications for any remediation effort if pyrite is found.
4) Is the house built on a ground or suspended slab?
5) Is the developer/builder still solvent and operating as a going concern or have they gone into receivership/liquidation? If still operating do they have liability insurance in place that would cover remediation works due to pyrite?
6) Related to q above - was the house covered by Homebond or another insurer for structural defects?
7) It could even be worth your while just googling and seeing what comes up - pyrite+the estate name or area or getting in contact with the Pyrite Action Group and seeing if there is anyone from the estate or area working with them or they may know if houses from the estate or general area have been accepted into the PRB scheme for remedial works.

While this might seem a bit ott and may not be a problem with this house - I would advise you to be very cautious as many vendors with possible pyrite problems will try to conceal this fact from prospective buyers particularly if there is no visible structural damage.

It is possible to pick up a pyrite affected property at a reduced price and this can work out in your favour even after paying to fix it (again this is case by case and would depend on the level of damage - there are houses which are pyrite affected but with no damage and others with inch wide cracks in the walls).

Entering into a purchase fully sighted of a pyrite issue and its possible implications is very different to a scenario of paying full price for a property and then uncovering a pyrite problem afterwards.

christin wrote: »

I'm buying an apartment in the Waterville estate in Blanchardstown Dublin 15. Would anyone have heard of a Pyrite issue for this estate in the past?
Thanks.

Find out where the infill for the ground floor came from and was it from a quarry associated with pyrite. Waterville is a good sized estate so if there is/was a pyrite issue it should be easily discovered even though there was a court order keeping the issue quiet.
In addition if there was a pyrite issue and the home was repaired there would be a certificate available to show that the property would be free of pyrite.

christin wrote: »

Thanks for your reply. I appreciate it.
Forgive my ignorance, I'm a first time buyer. What or how is the best way to find out which quarry did the infill come from? Is word of mouth or Internet search the best way? I'd say the builders (Granbrind) won't tell me this kind of information.

Your solicitor can find that out. It’s quite likely that a number of quarries would have been used though. You could check locally if the estate has had pyrite issues. If there is pyrite present, it would have become apparent within a few years of the buildings completion