Bus Eireann N3/M3 Corridor Route & Timetable Changes - Phase 3

tom23 wrote: »

It seems that way. Not a great time for commuters of Navan if you ask me.

Not a great time for commuters to and from Dublin and Dunshaughlin, Kells, Cavan, Ashbourne, Ratoath, Wicklow, Athboy, Dublin Airport, Kildare, or anywhere else in between - which have all been affected - either.

The 111, 126 and 133 services have been affected by the recent cancellations, as well as the 109, NX, 109X and 109 services. There were cancellations between Kildare and Dublin, Wicklow and Dublin, Wicklow and Dublin Airport, and Athboy and Dublin.

Now that it has been clearly established that listings of cancellations are available on the website for perusal, what I have just stated can be easily verified.

devnull wrote: »

It goes without saying though the the levels of sickness being 12% is massive.

What is the sick scheme like in Bus Eireann. Do things like self certified days with full pay still happen there?



Do Dublin Bus really have spare drivers to be able to do that?

It's 4 days per year only with 2 in each quarter. Anything after that is unpaid.

That 12% figure was not an issue before, taking into account long term sick etc, it's nothing new to anyone until they introduced these new routes and times

Dublin bus do have spare drivers in summerhill, there will be a timetable change on the airlinks for winter I believe

Ryanair have a target on time arrival of 90%. Surely BE have targets and surely the NTA are monitoring BE service standards?

Whoever is monitoring BE service standards should be challenged to look at the appalling service levels on the Navan - Dublin route.

From what I hear on this thread there is definite issues that have only arisen in the past weeks. I never heard of these levels of cancellations before.

Cannon_fodder wrote: »

Ryanair have a target on time arrival of 90%. Surely BE have targets and surely the NTA are monitoring BE service standards?

Whoever is monitoring BE service standards should be challenged to look at the appalling service levels on the Navan - Dublin route.

From what I hear on this thread there is definite issues that have only arisen in the past weeks. I never heard of these levels of cancellations before.

It would appear, going by what was stated in the following posts, by the poster Kopparberg Strawberry and Lime, that not all the resources were put in place before the NX began operating:

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=104774399&postcount=27

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=104818669&postcount=159

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=104774572&postcount=30

tom23 wrote: »

I would hope if people are complaining to BE they are including NTA and their local public representatives. Damien English and Regina Doherty Should be taking close interest in this.

Regina Doherty isn't even familiar with the routes of her own local bus services so I wouldn't be expecting too much pro-activeness from her.

Bus users own testimony, sent in by bus users, I think, would be far stronger.

Public representatives who don't use bus services, wouldn't be able to speak with any authority, as they wouldn't be familiar with how the services operate each day.

I saw Damien English on the 109N, once or twice, about 12 or 13 years ago, but that service is no more, now that the 109A leaves hourly at night to and from Kells and Bus Áras!:)

Here is Regina Doherty in January 2016 telling us how awful it is that the 105 will no longer serve Kentstown and Duleek, to and from Dublin, despite the fact that the 105 did not serve Kentstown or Duleek, at the time she issued this press statement, in January 2016.

What she said, would be like saying how terrible it is that, that with the recent changes to the 109, that the 109 will no longer serve Trim!:)

The statement begins as follows:

"Fine Gael TD for Meath East, Regina Doherty, has called on Bus Eireann to reverse proposed changes to Route 105 which will see the new terminus at Connolly Hospital and will no longer bring commuters from Duleek, Kentstown, Ashbourne, and Ratoath to the city centre".

http://reginadoherty.blogspot.ie/2016/01/doherty-calls-for-reversal-of-proposed.html

devnull wrote: »

Today's update

Would be great if DB had a page on their website that you could check for cancellations rather than having to wait for the RTPI to count down, bus disappear from the screen and then be told the bus did not operate due to operational reasons when you contact them on twitter.

Commuter109 wrote: »

Couldn't agree more Tom. All email correspondence to NTA and BE should be ccing the powers that be.

They are public representatives and this is a public service affecting their constituents regardless of whether they have first hand experience of the issues or otherwise

The fact that they mightn't use the services themselves is all the more reason to keep then in the loop , and educate them as to the issues people are facing day to day.

As an aside a neighbor told me they were opposite Shane Cassells on it last week

I can see your point about keeping public representatives informed, but in the case of Regina Doherty, she was receiving correspondence from bus users, and still managed to get her January 2016 public statement arseways.

In her first press statement on Friday 15th January 2016, about the 105 service, she seemed to think that Bus Éireann was going to end completely, a service between Ratoath, Ashbourne and Dublin City Centre.

She talked of passengers being stranded in Blanchardstown!:) Ludicrous stuff altogether!

She didn't make any reference - in that first statement - to the existing 103 service, that covered Ratoath, Ashbourne and Dublin:

http://reginadoherty.blogspot.ie/2016/01/doherty-calls-for-reversal-of-proposed.html

http://reginadoherty.blogspot.ie/2016/04/bus-eireann-finally-listening-to.html

Here is an item by LXFlyer, from February 2016, which is an item issued by Bus Éreann in February 2016, detailing changes to the Ashbourne, Raotath Dublin routes, that would commence on Sunday 3rd April 2016.

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=98886417&postcount=12

http://www.buseireann.ie/news_timetable.php?id=1961&month=Feb

It indicates that Regina Doherty was incorrect, in saying in her second statement on 26th April 2016, that Bus Éireann had not notified passengers of route changes. In this statement she said: “Over the last number of months, when changes to our bus services were mere rumours, there was a great deal of worry amongst commuters".

She didn't seem to know that Bus Éireann had detailed the changes to the routes, two months earlier, in the Bus Éireann statement in February 2016.

That second press statement, by Regina Doherty on Tuesday 26th April 2016, was only issued three weeks after the revised and improved 103 and 105 timetables began. The revised 103 and 105 timetables began on Sunday 3rd April 2016.

Clearly, Bus Éireann had published details of changes to the Ashbourne, Ratoath routes, two months before she issued that second press release, where she suggested that Bus Éireann had not been informing passengers of changes to the routes.

She said in the first and second paragraph of the first statement, dated Friday 15th January 2016, that the 105 changes, would mean that people from Duleek, Kentstown, Ashbourne, and Ratoath would be unable to travel to Dublin with Bus Éireann:

"Fine Gael TD for Meath East, Regina Doherty, has called on Bus Eireann to reverse proposed changes to Route 105 which will see the new terminus at Connolly Hospital and will no longer bring commuters from Duleek, Kentstown, Ashbourne, and Ratoath to the city centre".

"Doherty said “it is absolutely ludicrous for Bus Eireann to make proposed changes to this route which will see hundreds of Meath unable to travel directly to Dublin city centre every day".

The first statement in January 2016 was written in such a way that she didn't know there was another service already covering Dublin city centre, Ratoath and Ashbourne - the 103.

What Bus Éireann did with the 103 and 105 routes was to increase services between Ratoath, Ashbourne and Dublin, and alter the 105 to provide a regular service between Drogheda Duleek, Kentstown and Blanchardstown, an extra bus service for places like Duleek and Kentstowm. Regina Doherty was calling on Bus Éireann and the NTA not to run this service!:)

The two press statements she released regarding these timetable changes were just assuming the negative of Bus Éireann and the NTA, in terms of the changes that were made to the 103 and 105 by Bus Éireann, in co-operation with the NTA.

What ended up happening was that the 103 service was made more frequent. She just assumed the negative.

At least when Shane Cassells had issued statements about the 109 services on various occasions over the last 8 or 9 years, he used the 109 buses regularly, so he was familiar with it. Dominic Hannigan used the 109 regularly also.

tom23 wrote: »

Excellent post Commuter109 and if everyone took the time to email them when complaining about the disruptions to BE and NTA (including minister Doherty) it will go along way to getting help to resolve the disruptions.

Perhaps Regina Doherty won't release another press statement, that unintentionally exposes her ignorance, one that might mention how awful it is that the NX no longer serves Ballivor, or something along those lines.

Considering that Navan isn't in her constituency, she wouldn't, I suggest, have much interest in receiving correspondence from Navan based passengers, as she wouldn't get any votes from them, and as a result would not do a whole lot, to highlight the concerns of Navan based bus users.

She might get votes from Ratoath and Ashbourne passengers, if they started calling for more services between Ratoath, Ashbourne and Navan, an increase of services that wouldn't be of much interest to passengers who just want to go between Dublin and Navan!!:)

tom23, I noticed that you thanked a post by Commuter109, as have I, which was in agreement with a post that I had written, in response to a post by you.

Just curious to know, does that mean you also agree with what I had written, about commuters to and from Dublin and various locations, in response to your post, about it not being a good time for commuters to and from Navan and Dublin?:D:)

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=104819663&postcount=167

tom23 wrote: »

Thanks for posting that cannon-fodder. I have a lot of sympathies for the drivers. A BE driver I know in Navan (an excellent driver by all accounts) echoed the same sentiments. He said moral was on the floor. Worrying times.

No problem. It does beg the question, if this route was farmed out to private operators and this was the result there would be uproar. The national carrier should be held to account with the regulator and fined for not meeting expected service levels.
Why if the national carrier has lost other routes to private carriers is there not more drivers rather than less for roistering?

Cannon_fodder wrote: »

No problem. It does beg the question, if this route was farmed out to private operators and this was the result there would be uproar. The national carrier should be held to account with the regulator and fined for not meeting expected service levels.
Why if the national carrier has lost other routes to private carriers is there not more drivers rather than less for roistering?

If the route was privatized, as I understand it, it would be carried out, under the rules outlined by the National Transport Authority, and that Bus Éireann can't just give over the route to a private operator, without the co-operation and instruction of the NTA.

My understanding is that The NTA fine Bus Éireann, if it does not operate services and timetables that have been approved by The NTA in conjunction with Bus Éireann, for example in the case of disputes and strikes.

What regulator would hold Bus Éireann to account, other than The NTA?

If the Dublin Navan Bus Éireann route is ever privatised, the annoyance of the passengers should be directed at the NTA, as such a measure would only happen, with the approval of the NTA.

TheQuietFella wrote: »

But isn't this though the overall plan of the BE management to put it under as much strain as it can before it possibly crashes! They obviously don't have the drivers to commit to these additional services and if they were to draw others from Dublin Bus that then would impact upon their services and possibly strengthen the hand of the private company who won 10% of their routes! If it were to be sold it would be just another Irish company like many others to be flogged to a foreign fund who will milk it for all it can!

As well as that, our great leader Leo fancy socks Varadkar doesn't really have a commitment towards the retaining Bus Éireann.

He talked of the company being "not essential".

http://www.irishexaminer.com/ireland/bus-eireann-leo-varadkar-suggests-allowing-firm-to-fold-446697.html

https://rte.ie/r.html?rii=b9_21153260_135_31-03-2017_

TheQuietFella wrote: »

I wonder if he wasn't travelling in a government car would he be saying the same? It just goes to show in my view at least the contempt they show for the job that these drivers do! Private operators do not have either the vehicles or the staff to operate any service in Dublin alone. Could you imagine the brown envelopes that would be changing hands if they divided the services between the private operators? One Indian and loads of cowboys!

I think that when Leo Varadkar makes comments, like he did in the interview, that he doesn't appreciate the difference in using public transport in places like Dublin, from where you can get to other parts of the city, and the country, much easier, with the Bus or Rail services available within Dublin and from Dublin, than you can by using public transport in rural areas, where services to and from locations are far less frequent.

There are locations in rural areas, with no bus services at all, where the nearest bus or rail service might be five or six miles away, and there are people in those locations who have never got into the habit of using public transport regularly.

There are many very good private coach operators running services, but many of them do not serve intermediate stops to and from Dublin, and in the comments Leo Varadkar made, I think he doesn't appreciate issues like having a more frequent connectivity between Dublin to and from intermediate towns, or the advantage of having regular frequent connectivity of buses between towns, outside Dublin.

For example, Bus Éireann and the NTA, over recent years have implemented improved frequency of connections of services between Laytown, Drogheda, Navan, and Trim, as well as Kells, Navan, Dunshaughlin, Ratoath, Ashbourne.

I know Bus Éireann gets a subsidy to operate these routes, but I am just not sure that other bus companies would have the interest in operating such frequent services, or services later on the evening and night, to and from Dublin, even if a subsidy was available to them.

Many of them currently don't, even though they are different routes to those operated by Bus Éireann, and as far as I know, there isn't anything legally stopping them from operating later routes, as long as they are not identical to routes operated by any other company.

Whatsdastory wrote: »

Is there a need for 3 buses an hour on the NX Route?
Maybe from 7am to 9am & 4pm to 6pm, the 20 minute service is required.

But why cant the NX run every half hour and maybe then all the current problems with not enough buses/staff could be avoided.

I think you are correct on this.

I'm not sure it needs to be as frequent as every 20 minutes throughout the whole day and evening.

Often the NX arrives to pick up in Navan Market Square around the same time as the 109, and one of the buses would accommodate everyone at the bus stop.

I think that the every 20 minutes schedule, is not taking into account issues like traffic congestion, which I understand is contributing to the service, on occasions, not leaving from either Dublin or Navan at exactly every 20 minutes.

Also I don't think there's enough people at either Navan Market Square, or Johnstown, waiting for each of the services throughout the day, at times outside of early morning to Dublin, and then in the early evening home from Dublin, to fill buses that just go to Dublin.

I guess the intention is to encourage people who have never used buses regularly from Navan to Dublin, to start using the new NX service, but unless that happens, I'm not sure for how long such a frequent service can be operated.

As I understand it the Bus Éireann drivers indicated to Bus Éireann management and the NTA, before the service began, that being on time all the time, was too ambitious an expectation, on a service that is scheduled every 20 minutes, to and from Navan and Dublin.

The comments about absenteeism of drivers, made by a Bus Éireann spokesperson, cited in the RTE news item below dated 26th September 2017, do not concede, or entertain the possibility, that perhaps the new NX services are scheduled so tightly, every 20 minutes, and as a result, do not factor in possible delays, as a result of traffic.

I think, now, that what might be happening, is that particular NX services, upon leaving from Dublin, are being held up in traffic, and as a result do not manage to leave from Navan back to Dublin, at the particular scheduled time, and then there might a knock on effect, of delays, or indeed cancellations, of some of the next few services, for which particular buses are intended to be used?

That might explain why the listings of "disruptions", have been posted on the Bus Éireann website, so near to the time, that the cancelled services were originally scheduled to operate.

https://www.rte.ie/news/2017/0926/907636-bus-eireann/

Whatsdastory wrote: »

Ye 20 minutes is crazy i think , sum Dublin Bus routes only run twice an hour!
Thats the answer to current problems , if anyone from bus eireann is reading this , change the service to every half hour and problem sovled! But again this is Bus Eireann, so might be changed by 2020!

I have not been on the NX route yet myself though, so i may be off the mark here.
Can somebody tell me who uses it , if it is full or even near full at off peak times?

I assume it is full at peak times ?? If not full at peak times, then what a disaster then!!

Another problem i have with the NX Route is not one goes via the Port Tunnel!! The 1730 direct bus to Navan via Port Tunnel and M3 was such a luxury! I do know that the new NX route now goes via dorset street, but surely they could of put one bus at least to go via the PT.

I would imagine, if enough people send submissions in to Bus Éireann and the NTA, and show that the Port Tunnel route was popular, that such a service would be re-introduced?

As I understand it, it was through submissions from passengers, sent in to Bus Éireann and the NTA, that the two services to Dublin in the morning from Navan, and the two services from Dublin, were introduced in the first place, a few years ago?

Whatsdastory wrote: »

Yes horseburger i think it was these submissions that got the PT Route .

Ok rough maths here , open to correction on below:

From 0540 to 0030 Mon to Fri, 53 NX Buses leave navan every 20 minutes
Majority if not all of these bus are the double decker buses? I think. These hold 70 - 80 people?
53 * 80 = 4240. Say 4000 as a rough figure of capacity of number of seats leaving Navan to Dublin each day.
How many people actually travel from Navan to Dublin on a typical weekday? Id guess 2500? Maybe 2800 max??
Again i may be way out on above figures, only rough estimates, open to correction.

Dont forget the 109 + 109A also operate every half hour / hourly from Navan.

Indeed, the 109 had served Navan half hourly, but it was between the services that left Kells at 15 past the hour and the 109s that left Cavan on the hour.

The 109 from Kells to Dublin continues to serve Navan Market Square, hourly at 35 past the hourly, except between roughly 6am and 8am.

The 109A is hourly from Navan to Dublin Airport and DCU during the day.

It is on the services during the night to and from Kells, that the 109A serves Bus Aras, so during the day the 109A does not serve Dublin City Centre.

The new 109X service from Cavan serves the Abbey Road Navan stop on the opposite side of the road to the fire station, roughly every two hours, as opposed to the hourly 109s from Cavan that used to pick up and drop off at Navan Market Square.

There were certain 109 buses from Cavan in the morning that used to avoid Navan and Dunshaughlin, for example the 6am from Cavan to Dublin that stopped in Virginia and Kells and then on to Dublin, but many of the hourly 109s from Cavan used to serve Navan and Dunshaughlin, while some covered Navan but avoided Dunshaughlin.

The new 109X between Cavan and Dublin does not serve Dunshaughlin at all.

Before the change in the services on 17th September, the 109 was scheduled to serve Navan every 30 minutes. This was through the 109 services that left Cavan on the hour that were due in Navan at 5 past the next hour, and the 109's that started in Kells at 15 past the hour that were due in Navan at 35 past the hour.

I can understand why Bus Éireann and the NTA have increased services between Navan and Dublin, but perhaps the frequency does not need to be every 20 minutes throughout the whole day and evening.

I guess with less 109s now serving Market Square, and with the 109X serving the Navan Abbey Road fire station stop, it was decided to increase services to and from Navan Market Square and Dublin with the new NX services.

It is difficult for any bus company to make changes that pleases everybody who uses those services. I imagine Bus Éireann received numerous submissions from passengers unhappy about 109 services from Navan also serving Dunshaughlin, Clonee and Blanchardstown Shopping Centre.

Kells passengers don't like going through Navan. Virginia passengers don't want to go through Kells. Dunshaughlin passengers don't want to go through Clonee.

http://www.buseireann.ie/timetables/1504435589-109.pdf
http://www.buseireann.ie/timetables/1473263565-109A.pdf
http://www.buseireann.ie/timetables/1504435671-109X.pdf

I'm aware and others are aware of what I said, and the wording of those articles are being portrayed incorrectly

When they say have Dublin bus operate some routes, that was the media taking it out of proportion, it was only a number of drivers temporarily transferring to bus Eireann to fill gaps, using bus Eireann vehicles on their services.

Also, can you stop boasting what I've said to other places without expressed permission, it's even annoying me.