Are we really back to this sh*t again?

Yourself isit · 13-02-2017 12:31am

The Rape of Lucretia wrote: »

'The banks' are not however a machine, divorced from the rest of the country or the people. They are Irish. And staffed and run by Irish people. So incompetent Irish banks and incompetent Irish borrowers ****ed up (many literally the same individuals). Finger pointing at 'the banks' is a sure sign that little or nothing has been learned and the country is as naive and incompetent as it was 10 years ago.

Nope. Banks were the main part of the problem.

I think you are the kind of guy who likes to feel superior to as many people as possible, however limited your analysis is, you will always come back to that self regarding feeling good of being smarter than the masses.

What is your story by the way? Did you buy in the boom? Later ? Or not yet?

It would be nice to see what the superiority is based on.

Samuel T. Cogley · 13-02-2017 12:32am

FFS this was about w*nkers that had just spent 600K to live in Portmarnock and the inverted snobbery of living on a council estate. Now it's about banks... booooooooooooooooo...

More about how people with more money than me are ****, less about the other **** with way more money than all of us!

Spanish Eyes · 13-02-2017 12:33am

Renting is fine, but looking forward.... how could anyone afford the rent if retired and on a pension? And be kicked out with a few months notice. Not a good prospect in this country is it?

Think forward. There is nothing like the security of owning your own home. Nothing. Especially if the mortgage is paid off by the time you retire.

Yourself isit · 13-02-2017 12:33am

The Rape of Lucretia wrote: »

The Irish :

http://www.independent.ie/business/irish/third-of-firsttime-buyers-seek-relaxation-of-central-banks-rules-on-home-loans-34735957.html

And Joe Soap.

70% of first time buyers not seeking a relaxation of the central banks rules. Seems pretty smart to me.

By the way do you feel "the English" are responsible for London prices, or do you just apply ethnic criteria here?

Yourself isit · 13-02-2017 12:35am

Ayuntamiento wrote: »

Yeah of course. You're on a bit of a monologue now Over and out!

It's always going to be a monologue if the other side has no facts and disappears.

pablo128 · 13-02-2017 12:39am

Yourself isit wrote: »

It's always going to be a monologue if the other side has no facts and disappears.

Well here are some facts. My mother was able to buy a second house working part time as a cleaner 14 years ago. She went to a dodgy mortgage broker and he knocked up a dodgy P60 and bingo.

And she was far from the only one.

Yourself isit · 13-02-2017 12:40am

Spanish Eyes wrote: »

Renting is fine, but looking forward.... how could anyone afford the rent if retired and on a pension? And be kicked out with a few months notice. Not a good prospect in this country is it?

Think forward. There is nothing like the security of owning your own home. Nothing. Especially if the mortgage is paid off by the time you retire.

It is this genuine fear that causes people to overspend not "greed" or "stupidity". Of course if enough supply was available it wouldn't happen.

Its not like people want house prices to be Expensive, not buyers anyway.

Yourself isit · 13-02-2017 12:41am

pablo128 wrote: »

Well here are some facts. My mother was able to buy a second house working part time as a cleaner 14 years ago. She went to a dodgy mortgage broker and he knocked up a dodgy P60 and bingo.

And she was far from the only one.

We are not talking about 14 years ago. I'm clearly blaming the banks then but the guy I'm replying to was talking about people hiding credit union loans now.

Well not when I bought in 2015 they weren't. The banks knew my entire financial history across two countries. It would have been impossible to hide a loan or repayments

Samuel T. Cogley · 13-02-2017 12:43am

pablo128 wrote: »

Well here are some facts. My mother was able to buy a second house working part time as a cleaner 14 years ago. She went to a dodgy mortgage broker and he knocked up a dodgy P60 and bingo.

And she was far from the only one.

I think I was earning 26K and the wife was doing her PhD on about 10 grand stipend. We got approved for over 300K on 'affordability' and increase in earnings potential.

Fook me if a decade later I'm not now on less that I was then :pac:

TimeToShine · 13-02-2017 12:44am

Spanish Eyes wrote: »

Renting is fine, but looking forward.... how could anyone afford the rent if retired and on a pension? And be kicked out with a few months notice. Not a good prospect in this country is it?

Think forward. There is nothing like the security of owning your own home. Nothing. Especially if the mortgage is paid off by the time you retire.

I agree with you in that if you are a homebird with absolutely no intention whatsoever of ever living outside of Ireland then you should buy as soon as you are able - regardless of cost. Note that this applies to fewer people than you'd think - people change and I would class married teachers and gardai amongst the few who fall into this category. People who have effectively had their path beaten out for them by the generations above who have little to no chance of a career/life outside of Ireland. In that case fire away - you'll never solidify your losses if the bubble pops and it prevents exactly the scenario you describe.

Grandeeod · 13-02-2017 12:44am

I read this story this morning and it saddened me to a great degree on many levels.

The price range of the houses. What people were prepared to do in order to buy one. The image of one described female buyer "skipping" out of the house after closing the deal. I've been there, seen that, bought the T-Shirt and then lost my bollix like lots of others.

This headfirst Irish compulsion to buy property/land as if its some sort of security is bonkers. I'd love to say that renting is good and the future, but because of the aforementioned compulsion, renting is now at the mercy of the same mindset of those that want to buy, either to rent or live in it. No difference - its money/security driven in some capacity. If you can't buy, you are fooked in terms of afforadble and steady rental accomodation.

I don't wish for another crash, but I would shed no tears if it happened. How have we gone from a nation that invested in social housing to a nation that sold off social housing, created ghetto's and stigmas and encourgaged society to own a home at any cost in a private build?

Glenster · 13-02-2017 12:45am

Elessar wrote: »

Queuing for days for the privilege of handing over between four hundred and fifty thousand and six hundred and sixty five thousand euro for a house.

its people who've not saved up their whole deposit yet. Id take a day off work if i thought it would save me 20K.

Samuel T. Cogley · 13-02-2017 12:46am

Glenster wrote: »

its people who've not saved up their whole deposit yet. Id take a day off work if i thought it would save me 20K.

I think the point is you're not saving anything, just spending silly, silly money.

myshirt · 13-02-2017 12:48am

How many multiples of the average industrial wage are these houses costing?

darkpagandeath · 13-02-2017 12:49am

Yourself isit wrote: »

We are not talking about 14 years ago. I'm clearly blaming the banks then but the guy I'm replying to was talking about people hiding credit union loans now.

Well not when I bought in 2015 they weren't. The banks knew my entire financial history across two countries. It would have been impossible to hide a loan or repayments

This is it they seemed not to look or care. 20K materialising in my account for a loan at home would sound alarm bells and there are the same procedures here past and present.

Spanish Eyes · 13-02-2017 12:51am

TimeToShine wrote: »

I agree with you in that if you are a homebird with absolutely no intention whatsoever of ever living outside of Ireland then you should buy as soon as you are able - regardless of cost. Note that this applies to fewer people than you'd think - people change and I would class married teachers and gardai amongst the few who fall into this category. People who have effectively had their path beaten out for them by the generations above who have little to no chance of a career/life outside of Ireland. In that case fire away - you'll never solidify your losses if the bubble pops and it prevents exactly the scenario you describe.

Yes, getting a mortgage can tie you down. Especially if you want to move away, then you have all the sh1t attached to being a so called "accidental" landlord in order to live elsewhere, but keep your house at home.

But essentially, unless you decide to live out your pensionable age in a country that has copperfastened tenancy rights, you may as well kiss this country goodbye if you are a renter. That is a fact.

Imagine reaching 67 years of age and moving from house to house, apartment to apartment because the landlord says s/he needs to sell or keep it for a family member. Three months, and your'e gone.

Not a nice way in this country anyway to enjoy your retirement. That's why people want the security of tenure of their own home here I think anyway.

Dirty Dingus McGee · 13-02-2017 12:52am

Berserker wrote: »

They tried to move people away from Dublin in some of the public sector organisations and it was a complete disaster. Do you not remember that? People want to live and work in the major cities, Dublin in particular.

People only want to live and work in major cities because there are jobs there.

You move jobs to another urban centre they'll want to live there.

Samuel T. Cogley · 13-02-2017 12:55am

What I don't get with all this moving away stuff is why do it? It's not the norm in England, Ireland it seems that everyone does it.

If it's for a piss up, fair enough don't moan when you can't buy a house outside the 'ghetto AF' areas. If it's because of lack of opportunity in Ireland and there's opportunity in the US/UK what ever for a time, save some money. It's not really that hard is it?

That's not to say I don't believe house prices in Dublin outside of a few areas aren't complete madness.

PhoenixParker · 13-02-2017 1:01am

Dirty Dingus McGee wrote: »

People only want to live and work in major cities because there are jobs there.

You move jobs to another urban centre they'll want to live there.

They might, but then their husband or wife needs a job there too . . .

and they'll both want a few other companies hiring people with similar skillsets so that there are options if something goes wrong at their company. . .

and if either of them have family abroad they'll want to be handy for an airport.

All of which results in big urban centres and depopulated rural areas. It's tough enough to find two jobs a reasonable commute from a suburb of Dublin, I don't want to be trying the same thing in Mullingar and then one of us suffers a job loss and we've to try to move the whole family. I'll stick with Dublin.

From an employers point of view they want to have a ready pool of talent to hire from and the simplest way to do that is to set up shop beside a competitor or better yet a cluster of competitors. They'll be sticking with Dublin too.

darkpagandeath · 13-02-2017 1:03am

Samuel T. Cogley wrote: »

What I don't get with all this moving away stuff is why do it? It's not the norm in England, Ireland it seems that everyone does it.

If it's for a piss up, fair enough don't moan when you can't buy a house outside the 'ghetto AF' areas. If it's because of lack of opportunity in Ireland and there's opportunity in the US/UK what ever for a time, save some money. It's not really that hard is it?

That's not to say I don't believe house prices in Dublin outside of a few areas aren't complete madness.

Dublin has many issues, City centre keeping it flat is madness. People love the power station stacks for example but moan about tall buildings in the CC. Low density housing is an issue especially when it's small.

Glenster · 13-02-2017 1:05am

Samuel T. Cogley wrote: »

I think the point is you're not saving anything, just spending silly, silly money.

You're getting a house worth 450K on a deposit of 25K.

Looks like saving to me.

If you can afford it.

Glenster · 13-02-2017 1:07am

Dirty Dingus McGee wrote: »

People only want to live and work in major cities because there are jobs there.

You move jobs to another urban centre they'll want to live there.

Not true. it took Coillte 20 years to move down to wicklow because of the unions agitating on behalf of the admin staff in Dublin. And that was within commuting distance.

Samuel T. Cogley · 13-02-2017 1:08am

Glenster wrote: »

You're getting a house worth 450K on a deposit of 25K.

Looks like saving to me.

If you can afford it.

Point in bold is where the issues lie.

I sell sofas (I don't but say I do). The sofa is worth €10,000 because the fashion is to have a Japanese girl pee on it and I've sold 20 sofas at €10,000.

Are you better off with my Japanese pee sofa or a something from Harvey Norman?

darkpagandeath · 13-02-2017 1:09am

Glenster wrote: »

You're getting a house worth 450K on a deposit of 25K.

Looks like saving to me.

If you can afford it.

Problem is my experience in Ireland is no one wants to save. I have asked in the past the same that are now stuck in houses in negative equity. How will you afford the house. Answer is a loan, no talk of having 150k in the bank for example.

SueDub · 13-02-2017 1:14am

If they concentrated on making the surrounding Dublin commuter town more economical it would lessen the pressure on people to buy in Dublin. Why can they not see this.?
Stick a two/three year ban on the likes of Amazon(Belgard Rd, D24) being built in Dublin, offer a better price for a company to plant on the outskirts and they will flock..? Does that not make sense.!

NIMAN · 13-02-2017 1:17am

Grandeeod wrote: »

How have we gone from a nation that invested in social housing to a nation that sold off social housing, created ghetto's and stigmas and encourgaged society to own a home at any cost in a private build?

Probably just copied the British.....thats what they did too. We tend to follow their lead.

SueDub · 13-02-2017 1:18am

I don't think it's that we don't want to save, but that we can't actually save as there is feck all to save. I would much rather my rent be going into a bank account towards a dream house but then what to I infringe my family on another family who are also or may have already paid their dues.. It's never easy and never fair.

SueDub · 13-02-2017 1:20am

NIMAN wrote: »

Probably just copied the British.....thats what they did too. We tend to follow their lead.

Yet the British still think we are the ones who are behind.

darkpagandeath · 13-02-2017 1:23am

SueDub wrote: »

Yet the British still think we are the ones who are behind.

Odd I know plenty of British here, Ireland's Government is the only one I hear banging on about paddy this and that. Especially FG.

Samuel T. Cogley · 13-02-2017 1:28am

On the Brits - not sure about England but when I bought in Edinburgh, oh so many years ago, the valuer came out looked round the apartment and said, 'yeah this isn't worth the asking - it's worth X' we'll loan X-20% or whatever.

When I bought here and asked if it was the same the valuer said, and I **** you not.

"What are you willing to pay?" I said 'Y' he said right well then 'Y' is the market value because you're prepared to pay it.

Glenster · 13-02-2017 1:32am

Samuel T. Cogley wrote: »

Point in bold is where the issues lie.

I sell sofas (I don't but say I do). The sofa is worth €10,000 because the fashion is to have a Japanese girl pee on it and I've sold 20 sofas at €10,000.

Are you better off with my Japanese pee sofa or a something from Harvey Norman?

Comparison doesn't really make sense as there are no cheaper houses for sale in portmarnock.

Its basically two identical sofas, but you can have one today and you have to save for a year until you can sit down on the other one.

Glenster · 13-02-2017 1:34am

SueDub wrote: »

If they concentrated on making the surrounding Dublin commuter town more economical it would lessen the pressure on people to buy in Dublin. Why can they not see this.?
Stick a two/three year ban on the likes of Amazon(Belgard Rd, D24) being built in Dublin, offer a better price for a company to plant on the outskirts and they will flock..? Does that not make sense.!

Jesus, is tallaght not the outskirts?

Do you want them to build it on Inis Mor? The Moon? Narnia?

Glenster · 13-02-2017 1:44am

darkpagandeath wrote: »

Problem is my experience in Ireland is no one wants to save. I have asked in the past the same that are now stuck in houses in negative equity. How will you afford the house. Answer is a loan, no talk of having 150k in the bank for example.

In a way its irresponsible of them not to have 150K in the bank.

All they'd have to save is 15K a year for ten years, then the problem would be solved.

PhoenixParker · 13-02-2017 1:45am

SueDub wrote: »

If they concentrated on making the surrounding Dublin commuter town more economical it would lessen the pressure on people to buy in Dublin. Why can they not see this.?
Stick a two/three year ban on the likes of Amazon(Belgard Rd, D24) being built in Dublin, offer a better price for a company to plant on the outskirts and they will flock..? Does that not make sense.!

No.
Amazon want to be able to hire.
The roles they fill need talent from across Europe. They can persuade them to move to Dublin because if it doesn't work out there are other companies hiring so it's not a disaster for the new employee. People moving also know that their partner has a good chance of getting a job in Dublin too or if they're single that there's a decent social scene and dating pool.

Amazon & co want Dublin.

Spanish Eyes · 13-02-2017 1:45am

Many people are snobs when it comes to buying in certain areas of Dublin and perhaps other areas around the cities.

Why is that? I think I know the answer. Anti social and immigrant population. The two are not the same of course, but in some eyes they are. Has to be said.

Still, no one knows who is going to move in next door whether owned or rented, do they?

Glenster · 13-02-2017 1:47am

Spanish Eyes wrote: »

Many people are snobs when it comes to buying in certain areas of Dublin and perhaps other areas around the cities.

Why is that? I think I know the answer. Anti social and immigrant population. The two are not the same of course, but in some eyes they are. Has to be said.

Still, no one knows who is going to move in next door whether owned or rented, do they?

True but at least in donnybrook they'll probably have jobs and shame, all bets are off in blanchardstown.

SueDub · 13-02-2017 1:48am

Glenster wrote:

Jesus, is tallaght not the outskirts?

Glenster wrote:

Do you want them to build it on Inis Mor? The Moon? Narnia?

PhoenixParker wrote:

Amazon & co want Dublin.

Amazon & Co want Ireland...

Glenster · 13-02-2017 1:49am

SueDub wrote: »

Amazon & Co want Ireland...

we're not talking customer phone service or sweeping up a data centre, we're talking real jobs and for those Amazon and Co want Dublin.

SueDub · 13-02-2017 1:50am

Glenster wrote:

we're not talking customer phone service or sweeping up a data centre, we're talking real jobs and for those Amazon and Co want Dublin.

Oh I thought we were talking about the up and coming housing boom

Yourself isit · 13-02-2017 1:51am

Glenster wrote: »

True but at least in donnybrook they'll probably have jobs and shame, all bets are off in blanchardstown.

Blanchardstown is pretty middle class ( well in the modern sense of not having a pot to piss in after paying the mortgage, but most people work)

Yourself isit · 13-02-2017 1:52am

SueDub wrote: »

Amazon & Co want Ireland...

No they want central Dublin. Where they are. If the didn't they would be somewhere else.

SueDub · 13-02-2017 1:52am

darkpagandeath wrote:

Odd I know plenty of British here, Ireland's Government is the only one I hear banging on about paddy this and that. Especially FG.

Me too, I'm just heading back to the serotype "Have your colour TV?" days. Should have stated that ðŸ˜‰

SueDub · 13-02-2017 1:54am

Glenster wrote:

Do you want them to build it on Inis Mor? The Moon? Narnia?

Glenster wrote:

Jesus, is tallaght not the outskirts?

Sorry, I meant the commuting county's towns... ðŸ˜•

Samuel T. Cogley · 13-02-2017 1:55am

Glenster wrote: »

True but at least in donnybrook they'll probably have jobs and shame, all bets are off in blanchardstown.

What the?! :eek:

Firstly public order offenses are apparently higher in Donnybrook than Finglas and secondly whats wrong with Blanchardstown?

Also

Drug Seizure and arrests in Donnybrook, Dublin on the 26/6/14
As part of on-going intelligence-led operation targeting the sale, supply and distribution of controlled substances Gardai from the Garda National Drugs Unit (GNDU), assisted by local Drug and Detective unit in Dundrum searched a house on Stillorgan Road, Donnybrook, Dublin 4.

During the search Gardai discovered 32 kilos of cocaine with an estimated street value of €2.24 million (subject to analysis) on Thursday night 26th June 2014.

Two males (27 and 37 years) were arrested at scene and are currently detained at Blackrock Garda Station under the provisions of Section 2 of the Criminal Justice (Drug Trafficking) Act, 1996 as amended.

These operations use advanced analytical and intelligence methods to disrupt criminals and dismantle their networks. Drug seizures play a critical role in targeting the livelihood of criminals and reducing their ability to carry out illegal activities. Drug seizures also help protect communities from the devastating impact of drugs and the associated criminality.

Glenster · 13-02-2017 1:55am

Yourself isit wrote: »

Blanchardstown is pretty middle class ( well in the modern sense of not having a pot to piss in after paying the mortgage, but most people work)

Used to work near blanchardstown IT in Corduff. If thats middle class I'm a f*cking baronet.

Bambi985 · 13-02-2017 1:56am

jester77 wrote: »

Just do the maths, if you only saved 500 a month, then after 15 years you have 90k, and that is before you take whatever way you have invested it. Anyone on a semi-decent salary can easily put away at least 500 a month

how many 22 year olds do you know saving 500 quid a month these days? most 20-somethings i know are busy travelling the world, moving to sydney or toronto and living their 20-something lives - while forking out high rents - while on meagre salaries - to get serious about saving until they're a lot older and start thinking about settling down

Glenster · 13-02-2017 1:57am

SueDub wrote: »

Sorry, I meant the commuting county's towns... ðŸ˜•

Fair enough, I just cant see world class talent being attracted to Bray, Drogheda or Maynooth.

Id go to Cork/Galway/Kilkenny before there.

SueDub · 13-02-2017 2:01am

Glenster wrote:

Id go to Cork/Galway/Kilkenny before there.

That's even better.. Building up a second capital makes so much sense.

SueDub · 13-02-2017 2:03am

**sorry apologies, I'm new to the app, didn't realise you had to swipe to reach the last post, sorry if I replied to old posts.**

previous user · 13-02-2017 2:09am

drunkmonkey wrote: »

Starter home was the biggest cod of all, should be a 1 time purchase unless your a speculator.

But then they can climb up the greasy social pole until they're in the top social circle in Dalkey, that's were all the fancy snacks are.

Are we really back to this sh*t again?

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