Are we powerless? (club refusal)

cormie · 29-05-2004 4:47pm #1

There is a club in my local town that I often try to get into. Sometimes I'd get in, sometimes I wouldn't. It's the usual, "only regulars at the weekend lads". Anyway, I've been in the club a good few times and one time I walked up to get in and the bouncer was like, sorry I can't let you in, you were too rowdy last time, starting fights and you were extremely drunk. I was like emmm... I don't even drink (which I don't) and I am not the type of person to start fights. I had my hand in a brace at the time and when I went up I had my hands in my pockets and I was like "I think you have the wrong person" and he said "no, you have a brace on your hand right?" and I was like yeah, but you definitely have the wrong person. He didn't let me in anyway.

Then, a few weeks ago, 3 of my friends were in the same club and the manager was dj for the night, he got a bouncers attention and the bouncer came over and asked them to leave for no reason, they were simply sitting there having a drink. They got refunded entrance fee and for the drinks they hadn't finished. A week or so later they saw the manager in another bar and asked him what the story was. He said call down to him the next time they go. So last night I was with 2 of them, went up to get in "only regulars tonight lads" and we were like it's not like we've never been there, and he was like not tonight, and pointed at my friends runners to which I remarked "are you telling me nobody in there is wearing runners" to which he said "no, but their regulars" which must mean it's ok to wear runners on a regular basis there, right? So my friend asked to speak to "*******" (managers name) and he wasn't there at that moment, so we went to the pub right next to it, my mates had a drink each and then we saw ******* come back, so they finished their drink and we went up and asked to speak to ******* again, the bouncer called him on his ear piece and then he went in to another place and came out and said ok, last chance lads and told my friend it's the last time he is to wear runners there. So we got in anyway. Then one of my friends was outside later and the manager was there and he was asking what the story was with our refusal and the manager just shrugged his shoulders.

This is ridiculous basically. There must be something we can do so we don't have to put up with this bull? I have been told I could complain to the licensing commitee and maybe get their license revoked, but I doubt that would happen.

I've heard many similar stories off various people about different clubs. One of my friends, his friend was going to a club in dublin and they wouldn't let him in, for no reason, he was fed up as his friends were in there so he got out his garda college student card and showed them, immediately they let him in and one or two bouncers approached him during the night asking was he having a good time.

Any comments or suggestions?

jongore · 29-05-2004 5:06pm

They have the right to refuse admission or service providing they give a reason, weather you agree or not is doesn't matter.
You can complain, but your just wasting air, the only way your complaint would be heard is if you are a member of a minority group and were refused admission because of this.

damnyanks · 29-05-2004 6:24pm

Just burn the place down. It solves all my problems.

Tommy Vercetti · 29-05-2004 7:32pm

You can either...

(a)Just go somewhere else, why waste your money on those arrogant pricks.
(b)Bring along a traveller and sue them when refused
(c)burn the bastards!

SantaHoe · 29-05-2004 8:01pm

(b)Bring along a traveller and sue them when refused

That's brilliant tbh.

sorry I can't let you in, you were too rowdy last time, starting fights and you were extremely drunk. I was like emmm... I don't even drink (which I don't) and I am not the type of person to start fights.

Maybe you were so drunk you don't remember it... and since you think you don't drink - maybe you're an alcoholic in extreme denial.
Maybe your arm was in a cast because you broke it trying to clothesline one of the loungegirls.

Ooooorrr....
Maybe you look too young or a bit shifty.

OOOORRRR...
Maybe they know you don't drink, hence you're a financial waste of space to them.

OOOOOOOOOOOOOOORRR....
One of the bouncers doesn't like your face.

fragile · 29-05-2004 8:08pm

Originally posted by jongore
They have the right to refuse admission or service providing they give a reason, weather you agree or not is doesn't matter.

A reason that is legally acceptable, e.g. 'over 21' is not a legally acceptable reason.

If you really want to do something about this you should turn up at the club with a few friends, a notepad and a camera, if any of your group get refused ask each of the bouncers their names and write them down in the notepad. Then take pictures of the bouncers, and tell them that your friends are eye witnesses and you will be taking legal action against the club.

The reason for taking pictures is that they will most likely give you false names, but the camera will scare them.

The following is true for a lot of bouncers I have known:
(1) they work as a bouncer part-time, along with a full time job as a Gardai / Prison Officer / Army etc. This is illegal and these bouncers stand to lose their career if caught out.
(2) they are being paid under the table, again if they are caught out by having to appear in court they are screwed.

Bouncers get threatened all the time, but if you can convince them that you are serious and make them think that they could end up in court, even if it is just being called as a witness, they will **** a brick.

I agree with jongore it is very hard to follow these things up, but in my experience if you can get the case to court, most judges have a dislike for bouncers.

subway_ie · 29-05-2004 8:51pm

Originally posted by fragile
A reason that is legally acceptable, e.g. 'over 21' is not a legally acceptable reason.

Um, a club can set whatever minimum age it wants, as long as its over the legal minimum age of 18. Over 21s or even over 91s is perfectly legal.

talking_walnut · 29-05-2004 8:55pm

Man, theres not a chance in hell any bouncer I know would let you take a picture of them. And there not hired for they're small stature.

Speaking of which, 1 of my friends was in a club the last day and was taking a picture of another friend in front of the bar when a bouncer came up and stopped him. Apparently your not allowed take pictures of the bar or the staff. The bouncer said something about legal reasons but that could have been bs. Anyone else ever experienced this?

Anyway cormie I dont think theres much you can do. Hassle them and your just gonna piss them off more and then you'll never get in.

herobear · 29-05-2004 8:55pm

ive been refused entrance twice to bars here in dublin, both times they had to eventually let me in on the same night

first time, i stupidly walked up to the quays entrance by myself, it was a winters night so it was friggin freezin and i was nervous....the club that night had d**** for bouncers, and they told me to push off, i told them i had my i.d. and they said they didnt care.
i went off to find a female friend and we both tried together, we both got refused entrance. we went off, she went back to the bar and got in while i waited for some more friends,
all was going fine the third time i tried with my two other friends, until the bouncer(who was a different guy) was notified that i had already been refused entrance twice. he personally apolagised to me saying he couldnt let me in, and let my other friends in after we had made arrrangements to go to another bar where we could all get in, in a a few minutes.
by this time they knew i had at least 4/5 friends inside(reality was about 9/10) and that because of me being refused, they were all going bring their business elsewhere, knowing the amount of business they'd lose, they had to finally relent and let me in after 10 minutes of me sitting outside freezing my ass off.
personally though, i wouldnt myself choose to go back to the club.

other time was only about 2 weeks ago, i was out celebrating end of college exams with some mates, we got to the bar, asked for i.d's "sorry mate, only 20's or over tonight", i was just like "what ? im 19" "sorry mate". i turned to my friend, telling him of my predicament, bouncer motioned towards my i.d., i showed it to him again "alright mate, go on in" and he let me in

they're pretty much the only times ive ever gotten hassle from bouncers, second time wasnt really a hassle that much either tbh

Trebor · 29-05-2004 9:30pm

they can only say over what ever if they have a sign on the wall at the entrance otherwise it's illegal

subway_ie · 29-05-2004 9:47pm

Originally posted by Trebor
they can only say over what ever if they have a sign on the wall at the entrance otherwise it's illegal

I'm fairly sure they don't need a sign - they just need to apply the same rule to everybody. Ie, everybody has to be over 21, etc. - not just the people they don't want to let in.

Karl Hungus · 29-05-2004 9:57pm

I know of a fellow who kept phoning in bomb threats if they refused him entry to a certain club... They took it very seriously, and evacuated everyone, and apparently it took them a long time to cop on.

Not only do I condone acts of terrorism agains nightclubs, I encourage them.

Avoid hellhole nightclubs at any cost tbh, especially at the weekend.

Victor · 29-05-2004 10:05pm

Originally posted by seker16
Speaking of which, 1 of my friends was in a club the last day and was taking a picture of another friend in front of the bar when a bouncer came up and stopped him. Apparently your not allowed take pictures of the bar or the staff. The bouncer said something about legal reasons but that could have been bs. Anyone else ever experienced this?

It's private property - their rules or you can leave. Do you really expect any business to allow you take pictures of their cash procedures?

Originally posted by subway_ie
I'm fairly sure they don't need a sign - they just need to apply the same rule to everybody. Ie, everybody has to be over 21, etc. - not just the people they don't want to let in.

Yep. The can only apply one set of rules, otherwise they are illegally discriminating.

Trebor · 29-05-2004 10:12pm

Originally posted by subway_ie
I'm fairly sure they don't need a sign - they just need to apply the same rule to everybody. Ie, everybody has to be over 21, etc. - not just the people they don't want to let in.

just checked the bill it says "a notice setting out the policy is displayed in a conspicuous place in or on the exterior of the premises" page 24 they do have to have a sign but it can be inside or out now that just seems weird, how do you know if they have a sign inside?

Victor · 29-05-2004 10:33pm

Originally posted by Trebor
just checked the bill it says "a notice setting out the policy is displayed in a conspicuous place in or on the exterior of the premises" page 24 they do have to have a sign but it can be inside or out now that just seems weird, how do you know if they have a sign inside?

"exterior" - what does that word mean?

Trebor · 29-05-2004 10:37pm

Originally posted by Victor
"exterior" - what does that word mean?

it means outside but it says "in" how can you have "in" on the exterior?

Tommy Vercetti · 29-05-2004 10:39pm

Originally posted by Victor
It's private property - their rules or you can leave. Do you really expect any business to allow you take pictures of their cash procedures?

It's a public house where people socialise, surely the taking of photographs of one another doesn't constitute conspiracy to commit armed robbery. What about a 21st, for example?

cormie · 29-05-2004 10:48pm

Originally posted by Trebor
it means outside but it says "in" how can you have "in" on the exterior?

It says in or on the exterior of the premises

meaning that the sign is either inside the building or on the exterior of the building.

Interesting facts anyway. Maybe if I quote some of these legislations they will be dumbfounded and just let me in:)

Victor · 29-05-2004 10:52pm

Originally posted by Trebor
it means outside but it says "in" how can you have "in" on the exterior?

You can have in "in" the window or you can have it "on" the window.

I think you are misreading it. What it is saying is you can have it in the exterior or on the exterior. If they meant it to be possible to be only on the interior, it would have said that.

Trebor · 29-05-2004 10:54pm

Originally posted by Victor
You can have in "in" the window or you can have it "on" the window.

I think you are misreading it. What it is saying is you can have it in the exterior or on the exterior. If they meant it to be possible to be only on the interior, it would have said that.

i know i am only messing as it is a confusing way to word a document

fragile · 30-05-2004 12:55am

Originally posted by seker16
Man, theres not a chance in hell any bouncer I know would let you take a picture of them. And there not hired for they're small stature.

Most bouncers I have seen stand outside the club on a public street, there is not a damn thing they can do if you want to take a picture.

Oh, and it seems I was wrong about the age thing, I was sure I was right on that one

is it the same rule with pubs, because im almost certain that pubs cant refuse entry based on age if the person is over 18...

BKtje · 30-05-2004 1:50am

New law brought in recently brings back that the premises can deny you entry based on age as long as they son't 'discrimate' on that age accross the board. (recently is a few months). Dont ask me whjy hey rogh this back tho im sure somone knows (there is an 'apparent' good reason).

Superman · 30-05-2004 2:02am

bomb threat idea is best!

but at the end of the day just put a few chairs in your back garden and you can have your very own private gentlemens club.

fragile · 30-05-2004 2:05am

Originally posted by B-K-DzR
New law brought in recently brings back that the premises can deny you entry based on age as long as they son't 'discrimate' on that age accross the board. (recently is a few months). Dont ask me whjy hey rogh this back tho im sure somone knows (there is an 'apparent' good reason).

The only good reason I can think of, is that it is more convenient for the publicans. I mean if a person can be charged in court as an adult when they are 18, then they should not be discriminated against based on age in other situations. An adult is an adult, and the publicans should be forced to accept this.

billy the squid · 30-05-2004 2:14am

Something similar happened with a friend of mine

Myself and 14 friends went to a now closed hotel in Limerick city at around 7.30 for a birthday party. The person whose birthday it was was working and was due to show up around 9pm which he did. he was cold sober and they wouldnt let him in. the place was practically empty.

Went up to the bouncer and informed him that there were fifteen customers in the hotel that would leave if they didnt let our party member in. He was ambivelant until we all started to leave. the manager came down to find out where half the population of his bar went and went out offering to let us all in.

he was told to stick his bar and we went somewhere else.

The hotel closed down two weeks later after it was bought by a company wishing to build a department store in its place

StickyMcGinty · 30-05-2004 2:17am

BAH!!

this country is goin backwards... i was in the redbox last night and its SUCH a dissappointment to have all the festivities end at 3!!!

you dont have to have a sign on the outside of a building, if it is a listed buidling, such a copper face jacks, redbox, d2, etc...

cormie · 30-05-2004 12:06pm

they can refuse admission stating it's over 25's/75's etc, but if anybody is under that age then they are discriminating. So basically, if they say that, every customer has to be over that age, and if they are not, what can be done?

Trebor · 30-05-2004 12:16pm

as i said early no matter the place if it needs a license it has to have a sign saying over 21's that is visible from the entry point. it was in the bill that they introduced a few months back.

Lenny · 30-05-2004 12:36pm

Originally posted by Karl Hungus
I know of a fellow who kept phoning in bomb threats if they refused him entry to a certain club... They took it very seriously, and evacuated everyone, and apparently it took them a long time to cop on.

Not only do I condone acts of terrorism agains nightclubs, I encourage them.

Avoid hellhole nightclubs at any cost tbh, especially at the weekend.

Thats a brillant idea.
gona do that myself a good few times now

cormie · 30-05-2004 1:30pm

another thing on discrimination. As I said, My friend was told not to wear runners and I said "are you telling me nobody in there has runners on" he paused and answered "they are regulars" going by the same aspects of the age (everyone has to be over the age they state, same rule applies to all) if there are people wearing runners inside and that's why they are refusing you entry, is that classed as discrimination also? Surely it is. Great, have some good arguments for future circumstances so. Thanks for the references and tips!

Trebor · 30-05-2004 2:23pm

Originally posted by cormie
another thing on discrimination. As I said, My friend was told not to wear runners and I said "are you telling me nobody in there has runners on" he paused and answered "they are regulars" going by the same aspects of the age (everyone has to be over the age they state, same rule applies to all) if there are people wearing runners inside and that's why they are refusing you entry, is that classed as discrimination also? Surely it is. Great, have some good arguments for future circumstances so. Thanks for the references and tips!

it's not discrimination it's a dress code and there is no law covering it so if they want to allow regulars wear runners that's up to them.

Caesar_Bojangle · 30-05-2004 3:05pm

another thing on discrimination. As I said, My friend was told not to wear runners and I said "are you telling me nobody in there has runners on" he paused and answered "they are regulars" going by the same aspects of the age (everyone has to be over the age they state, same rule applies to all) if there are people wearing runners inside and that's why they are refusing you entry, is that classed as discrimination also? Surely it is. Great, have some good arguments for future circumstances so. Thanks for the references and tips!

I remember last year a guy was awarded e2000 or more, somewhere in Ireland for not been allowed into a night club because he was wearing sandals. He argued that he was dressed appropriately and it was discrimination as women were allowed in wearing stilettos and similar shoes, which exposed their feet to the same or greater extent of his sandals. The judge agreed and compensated him.

cormie · 30-05-2004 3:07pm

go judge!! hehe. So they are DEFINITELY allowed to choose who can wear runners and who cant?

Caesar_Bojangle · 30-05-2004 3:17pm

I honestly don't know. I've often worn runners out to nightclubs and the bouncer would say something like "runners aren't allowed but I'll let you in this time. Next time please wear shoes" I'd agree with him and go down the next week in a pair of runners and the cycle just repeats itself.

talking_walnut · 30-05-2004 4:35pm

I wasnt complaining about the "no taking photos of the bar/ staff" thing, I was just wondering if anyone else had ever experienced it. Pictures anywhere else in the club were fine.

I remember last year a guy was awarded e2000 or more, somewhere in Ireland for not been allowed into a night club because he was wearing sandals. He argued that he was dressed appropriately and it was discrimination as women were allowed in wearing stilettos and similar shoes, which exposed their feet to the same or greater extent of his sandals. The judge agreed and compensated him.

Ya I remember that case. From what I remember about it, the reason the judge rulled in his favour was because although the guy in question hadn't been allowed in wearing his sandals, the bouncers had admitted loads of girls the same night who were wearing them. Sexual discrimination basically.

i know i am only messing as it is a confusing way to word a document

Thats why them lawyer people get payed the big bucks:D

StickyMcGinty · 31-05-2004 12:33am

does anyone think that they are gonna have a rational discussion with a bouncer and change his mind?

no chance.

jaggeh · 31-05-2004 1:58am

go dressed as a woman

thats a whole new can of worms for the bouncer right there.

cormie · 31-05-2004 12:13pm

I've been let in after being refused a few times. Regarding runners, it was actually a sympathetic approach from them to me, I was going in with my friends and they said no runners and I was like ok and just said see ya later to my mates and then the bouncer just asked where I was coming from and then he said go on, just please where shoes next time.

garyc · 08-06-2004 2:33pm

ye anybody ever visit the Playhouse in Tallaght? They are without doubt the worst set of bouncers in Ireland its very hard to get in there. But Level 4 is easier to get in, cheaper and way more fun.

Also boomerangs in town thats a **** to get in.

radiospan · 08-06-2004 3:15pm

Originally posted by cormie
I've been let in after being refused a few times. Regarding runners, it was actually a sympathetic approach from them to me, I was going in with my friends and they said no runners and I was like ok and just said see ya later to my mates and then the bouncer just asked where I was coming from and then he said go on, just please where shoes next time.

Yes. One time I was refused on the ground of the place being "over 21's". I was on my own trying to get in, and I explained to the bouncer for a while that I was with a staff party (which I was), and I knew that there were people of my age (19) inside.

He changed his mind and left me in after I told him that, but he said that the bar was over 21's.

endanagle · 08-06-2004 3:34pm

afaik, you can be refused entry to a pub on the basis of age. once you're over 18 you're legally 'allowed' to consume alcohol on a licenced premises or elsewhere.

all pubs are 'over 18s' unless the have a sign up saying that the pub is for patrons over, say 23. but if this is the case, then it has to be across the board and none of the patrons can be between 18-23. if they are, then its discrimication. you can be refused entry to a pub on the basis of dress (neat dress) or being too drunk etc, but not on the basis of gender, sexual orientation, number in group, or age (except in the case outlined above) - pubs are 'public houses' so cannot be regulars only etc...

clubs are a different story though.

a club has a licence to operate as a 'members club' to which it can admit pretty much whoever they want. because of this member status, they can refuse entry to people based on dress code, alcohol consumed etc. they cannot, however 'discriminate' against people.

that said, in my opinion most clubs bouncers are complete **** on power trips. i said MOST! I have to say that I have met some really nice, courteous 'security' who operate very professionally.

again a case where many are ok, just couldn't be bothered going to the places with the **** any more... plenty of other places where i can enjoy a pint in peace!

my 2c

HelterSkelter · 08-06-2004 4:02pm

Originally posted by subway_ie
I'm fairly sure they don't need a sign - they just need to apply the same rule to everybody. Ie, everybody has to be over 21, etc. - not just the people they don't want to let in.

You are wrong, if they have an age policy it has to be on a sign in a place where everyone can see it.

BUMP! · 08-06-2004 4:52pm

Situation was that it used to be absolutely illegal to make a club over 21's, over 25's, etc. That equality bill was supposedly watered down a bit (although I dont remember if it actually was) to the point where under certain circumstances you could have the over 21's , 25's etc. The only condition is that there has to be a clear notice of policy OUTSIDE the premises so that people are not discriminated against.
Lets face it - anytime the govt does something right they always correct it to scr£w you...

chrismon · 08-06-2004 9:24pm

i get way to much of this,
the worst was on my 18th birthday. i went up to the club with my passport and full drivers liscense and my age card reciept. he asked my for id,i gave him the passport,he said do u have an age card,i said i applied for it today,heres my receipt. and his reply was "what the **** do u want me to do with this,**** off to the other club up the road. get out of my face" i got offended by this asked what the problem with my passport was when he someone in with a provisional liscense,then he just said **** off. i got in a few times after this(bout 2 months after that incident) but on sat nite another bouncer in the same club wudnt let me in because i was drunk? i hadnt been drinking yet and tried to assure him,but he just said, "mabey ill let u in another nite"

:dunno: :dunno:

Are we powerless? (club refusal)

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