Arcadia group collapse.

10000maniacs · 27-11-2020 2:59pm #1

This is a big disaster for retail. Dorothy Perkins, Top Man, Burton, Evans, Wallis, TopShop.
How long before Grafton Street becomes the next Moore street?

The go to street to get your phone or shoes fixed.

Thelonious Monk · 27-11-2020 4:24pm

Well we all seem to be managing fine without buying clothes all the time, most of which we probably don't need. It's one of the biggest polluters on the planet, so maybe we need to rethink the whole clothing system anyway.

seamus · 27-11-2020 4:26pm

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

Well we all seem to be managing fine without buying clothes all the time, most of which we probably don't need. It's one of the biggest polluters on the planet, so maybe we need to rethink the whole clothing system anyway.

This. Seriously, how many clothes shops do we actually need?

Is a street full of shops selling clothes really "better" than any other?

murpho999 · 27-11-2020 4:44pm

Don't see it as a disaster at all. I would be glad to see those shops gone off Grafton Street.

It's a Dublin Street not a British High Street.

Got some more individual shops in their that will make the street unique again.

Future shops are goiing to have to be service and/or food orientated so it could become a great cultural place.

Church on Tuesday · 27-11-2020 4:47pm

seamus wrote: »

This. Seriously, how many clothes shops do we actually need?

Is a street full of shops selling clothes really "better" than any other?

It's certainly better than the ones that attract scumbags.

whisky_galore · 27-11-2020 4:48pm

Church on Tuesday wrote: »

It's certainly better than the ones that attract scumbags.

The people that buy sports clothes who don't participate in any sport?

Atlantic Dawn · 27-11-2020 4:51pm

What will happen to Sir Philip's £100million luxury yacht 'Lionheart' now?

Tacitus Kilgore · 27-11-2020 4:52pm

Atlantic Dawn wrote: »

What will happen to Sir Philip's £100million luxury yacht 'Lionheart' now?

It'll be sold off to pay the redundancies for the staff who have lost their jobs... I'm sure...

RandomViewer · 27-11-2020 4:53pm

murpho999 wrote: »

Don't see it as a disaster at all. I would be glad to see those shops gone off Grafton Street.

It's a Dublin Street not a British High Street.

Got some more individual shops in their that will make the street unique again.

Future shops are goiing to have to be service and/or food orientated so it could become a great cultural place.

Doubt if there are many of that type of store that can afford Grafton street rents

RandomViewer · 27-11-2020 4:54pm

Atlantic Dawn wrote: »

What will happen to Sir Philip's £100million luxury yacht 'Lionheart' now?

Pick up one random migrant in the Med and be declared a charity vessel

owlbethere · 27-11-2020 4:54pm

I don't usually shop in them shops except for Dorothy perkins on the very rare occasion but they will be a huge loss all the same. For choice when it comes to clothing and not only that but for jobs too. These shops employ people and its going to add to unemployment. That's going to be hard for many people. Not only that this could be the start of retail going bang and a recession looming.

Has there been any deal done on Brexit? I fear that's going to fcuk us over for some years to come.

murpho999 · 27-11-2020 4:56pm

RandomViewer wrote: »

Doubt if there are many of that type of store that can afford Grafton street rents

Well something is going to have to change as the landowners need income.

Normal retail shops are just not going to make it anymore. Replaciing a british chain store with something similar just won't work in this age.

Atlantic Dawn · 27-11-2020 4:57pm

Pension funds who have invested in all this retail property will have to reduce their rent expectations. I see potential for new startups or else complete ghost streets, all depends on who drops the rent first.

murpho999 · 27-11-2020 4:59pm

owlbethere wrote: »

I don't usually shop in them shops except for Dorothy perkins on the very rare occasion but they will be a huge loss all the same. For choice when it comes to clothing and not only that but for jobs too. These shops employ people and its going to add to unemployment. That's going to be hard for many people. Not only that this could be the start of retail going bang and a recession looming.

Has there been any deal done on Brexit? I fear that's going to fcuk us over for some years to come.

No deal done on Brexit yet but this is nothing to do with Brexit.

It's internet & covid.

owlbethere · 27-11-2020 5:13pm

murpho999 wrote: »

No deal done on Brexit yet but this is nothing to do with Brexit.

It's internet & covid.

A no deal Brexit has the potential to add to this though.

ChikiChiki · 27-11-2020 5:20pm

Allegedly, it was one of that group who was offering more than Bewleys were paying for the lease of the premises on Grafton street.

It is a double edged sword for sure if they were to go to the wall. On one hand, local businesses will gain from it, on the other hand their products may be more expensive.

27-11-2020 5:22pm

murpho999 wrote: »

Don't see it as a disaster at all. I would be glad to see those shops gone off Grafton Street.

It's a Dublin Street not a British High Street.

Got some more individual shops in their that will make the street unique again.

Future shops are goiing to have to be service and/or food orientated so it could become a great cultural place.

There are so many Aran jumpers and pog mo thoin tee shirts you need though.

Hamsterchops · 27-11-2020 5:23pm

murpho999 wrote: »

Don't see it as a disaster at all. I would be glad to see those shops gone off Grafton Street.

It's a Dublin Street not a British High Street.

Got some more individual shops in their that will make the street unique again.

I am old enough to remember a time before the British shops arrived into Dublin, when prices were very high & choice was piss poor, then the High Street shops arrived, and we've been spoilt for choice ever since, so Viva la choice I say.

Dublin will be the poorer for it, if and when they pull out.

ChikiChiki · 27-11-2020 5:24pm

RandomViewer wrote: »

Doubt if there are many of that type of store that can afford Grafton street rents

Lower demand for premises will swiftly ensure Grafton St rents come tumbling down.

ChikiChiki · 27-11-2020 5:30pm

murpho999 wrote: »

Well something is going to have to change as the landowners need income.

Normal retail shops are just not going to make it anymore. Replaciing a british chain store with something similar just won't work in this age.

This is a very Irish attitude. Landowners have made an investment. An investment in which there are risks and can result in a net negative return.

Landowners are not entitled to income because they have purchased an asset which is not generating an income. I see it in the current Dublin housing rental market. Landlords being stubborn and not reducing rent prices, instead leaving rooms open and absolutely in denial of what is happening in the environment around them.

RandomViewer · 27-11-2020 5:30pm

ChikiChiki wrote: »

Lower demand for premises will swiftly ensure Grafton St rents come tumbling down.

You got to remember these guys are connected, don't be surprised if a government department pays above the odds to use the premises for storage ,25 year lease

murpho999 · 27-11-2020 5:46pm

Hamsterchops wrote: »

I am old enough to remember a time before the British shops arrived into Dublin, when prices were very high & choice was piss poor, then the High Street shops arrived, and we've been spoilt for choice ever since, so Viva la choice I say.

Dublin will be the poorer for it, if and when they pull out.

But the internet has changed everything and we're spoiled for choice and that's why the shops are in trouble.

I really don't like when an Irish street, which is Dublin's premier shopping street looks like a typical UK high street.

Time to rethink it and come up with new solutions.

murpho999 · 27-11-2020 5:48pm

ChikiChiki wrote: »

This is a very Irish attitude. Landowners have made an investment. An investment in which there are risks and can result in a net negative return.

Landowners are not entitled to income because they have purchased an asset which is not generating an income. I see it in the current Dublin housing rental market. Landlords being stubborn and not reducing rent prices, instead leaving rooms open and absolutely in denial of what is happening in the environment around them.

How is it an Irish attitude?

Landowners won't make any money if all shops are pulling out and not being replaced.

So they'll have to drop their rents to make any money back.

DilD · 27-11-2020 6:12pm

murpho999 wrote: »

I really don't like when an Irish street, which is Dublin's premier shopping street looks like a typical UK high street.

Why? It's basic supply and demand, it's what people want and buy so they supply that. Also, they can do it for a far cheaper price than your average 'independent' stores across Ireland, that's what it all comes down to, cost and savings.

L1011 · 27-11-2020 6:23pm

Liffey Valley lost all the Arcadia shops that took up an entire section of the centre about three years ago. Allowed them to get some new tenants and do some reconfiguration. Probably delighted that that happened now!

buried · 27-11-2020 6:32pm

oh no how will we cope with this monumental loss

tdf7187 · 27-11-2020 7:20pm

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

Well we all seem to be managing fine without buying clothes all the time, most of which we probably don't need. It's one of the biggest polluters on the planet, so maybe we need to rethink the whole clothing system anyway.

Compared to smartphones and cars? I'd doubt it. What do you have in mind, a naked movement? Don't think that would catch on in this part of the world somehow.

I also doubt if there is anything fundamentally wrong with the core business of Arcadia apart from its previous owner being a thieving scumbag. I believe it is highly rescuable.

Fuascailteoir · 27-11-2020 7:24pm

Aegir wrote: »

There are so many Aran jumpers and pog mo thoin tee shirts you need though.

Do you ever have anything positive to say about the country or is it just always sneery spiteful comments

whisky_galore · 27-11-2020 7:40pm

tdf7187 wrote: »

Compared to smartphones and cars? I'd doubt it. What do you have in mind, a naked movement? Don't think that would catch on in this part of the world somehow.

"According to World Vision Ireland and the Irish Environmental Network, the ‘fast fashion’ industry is the fourth largest cause of environmental pressure."

L1011 · 27-11-2020 7:42pm

tdf7187 wrote: »

I also doubt if there is anything fundamentally wrong with the core business of Arcadia apart from its previous owner being a thieving scumbag. .

Philip Green is still the owner.

Markcheese · 27-11-2020 7:46pm

whisky_galore wrote: »

"According to World Vision Ireland and the Irish Environmental Network, the ‘fast fashion’ industry is the fourth largest cause of environmental pressure."

A lot of fast fashion is being bought online , so it'll make little difference ,

46 Long · 27-11-2020 8:06pm

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

Well we all seem to be managing fine without buying clothes all the time, most of which we probably don't need. It's one of the biggest polluters on the planet, so maybe we need to rethink the whole clothing system anyway.

Does your climate change zealotry allow you to even consider the 13,000 jobs at risk because of this? Each one of them with a family to support, mortgage/rent to pay and food to put on the table.

Capt'n Midnight · 27-11-2020 8:24pm

seamus wrote: »

This. Seriously, how many clothes shops do we actually need?

Is a street full of shops selling clothes really "better" than any other?

Many years ago, this was a thriving, happy planet – people, cities, shops, a normal world. Except that on the high streets of these cities there were slightly more shoe shops than one might have thought necessary. And slowly, insidiously, the numbers of these shoe shops were increasing.

It’s a well known economic phenomenon but tragic to see it in operation, for the more shoe shops there were, the more shoes they had to make and the worse and more unwearable they became.

And the worse they were to wear, the more people had to buy to keep themselves shod, and the more the shops proliferated until the whole economy of the place passed what I believe is the termed the Shoe Event Horizon, and it became no longer economically possible to build anything other than shoe shops.

Result – collapse, ruin and famine. Most of the population died out.

-- Douglas Adams

buried · 27-11-2020 10:00pm

46 Long wrote: »

Does your climate change zealotry allow you to even consider the 13,000 jobs at risk because of this? Each one of them with a family to support, mortgage/rent to pay and food to put on the table.

Feel bad for the Irish people working in these outlets myself but at the same time Irish people would do well to wise up to the fact you can no longer rely on foreign companies to provide you with any sort of security of employment. These corporate entities are only here to get what they can get in the short term for their shareholders. This has been the case and an example for the last 30 years. You tie your star to these hoor's wagons, expect the end result. Its been going on for the last 30 years.

Darc19 · 27-11-2020 10:02pm

10000maniacs wrote: »

This is a big disaster for retail. Dorothy Perkins, Top Man, Burton, Evans, Wallis, TopShop.
How long before Grafton Street becomes the next Moore street?

The go to street to get your phone or shoes fixed.

Are any of them on grafton street.

The group has been on life support for years.

Atlantic Dawn · 27-11-2020 10:20pm

L1011 wrote: »

Philip Green is still the owner.

I recall when he made this comment...

"He can't read English. Mind you, he is a ****ing Irishman."

https://amp.theguardian.com/business/2003/mar/05/2

kravmaga · 27-11-2020 10:21pm

10000maniacs wrote: »

This is a big disaster for retail. Dorothy Perkins, Top Man, Burton, Evans, Wallis, TopShop.
How long before Grafton Street becomes the next Moore street?

The go to street to get your phone or shoes fixed.

All sh1t shops, poor choice, never bought in any of them, wont be missed.

Get some Irish owned and run shops in there place.

Arcadia group have been in trouble for a long time.

27-11-2020 10:26pm

buried wrote: »

Feel bad for the Irish people working in these outlets myself but at the same time Irish people would do well to wise up to the fact you can no longer rely on foreign companies to provide you with any sort of security of employment. These corporate entities are only here to get what they can get in the short term for their shareholders. This has been the case and an example for the last 30 years. You tie your star to these hoor's wagons, expect the end result. Its been going on for the last 30 years.

As compared to Dunnes who are known for treating their staff like sh1t?

buried · 27-11-2020 10:33pm

DubInMeath wrote: »

As compared to Dunnes who are known for treating their staff like sh1t?

Well you had Dell computers who pulled out of here in the early 00's, there are countless other examples of this happening or have happened. It's not a case of companies 'treating their staff like $hit', Irish ones can do that too, but if you are employed by a corporate entity that is interested with nothing but maximum profits for their worldwide 'shareholders' you better do your homework and realise that is the end game of these companies, and that is all they care about. You get in bed with these f**kers that will inevitably be the end result.
Plenty more of this $hit is coming in the pipeline for people that think they are secure in the likes of the big pharma/tech companies too.

ILoveYourVibes · 27-11-2020 10:56pm

10000maniacs wrote: »

How long before Grafton Street becomes the next Moore street?

IMO that happened a long time ago.

mfceiling · 27-11-2020 11:02pm

Atlantic Dawn wrote: »

I recall when he made this comment...

https://amp.theguardian.com/business/2003/mar/05/2

A horrible individual. A bully and a nasty piece of work.

B.A._Baracus · 27-11-2020 11:12pm

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

Well we all seem to be managing fine without buying clothes all the time, most of which we probably don't need. It's one of the biggest polluters on the planet, so maybe we need to rethink the whole clothing system anyway.

seamus wrote: »

This. Seriously, how many clothes shops do we actually need?

Is a street full of shops selling clothes really "better" than any other?

I do agree that how many clothing shops do we need. But a lot of things in this world aren't so black and white sadly.

Like let's be honest... These clothings shops charge some mark up for what they really cost to produce in the likes of India. Cents.
But I remember doing a fas course with an Indian lad once and he told us all about how while the sweat shops were terrible they gave people a great wage in the area. Sure they're unsafe but they let people provide for their family.

Then these shops give business to shipping companies by bringing this overly marked up garbage to our stores.
Then we pay some poor sod 10 euro an hour to put it on a shelf. But these jobs add to our economy. So our way of life is better than the likes of India. As more are paying tax (I hate tax as it feels like the taxman is shaking us upside down for pennies but that's life)

It's mad.

27-11-2020 11:40pm

buried wrote: »

Well you had Dell computers who pulled out of here in the early 00's, there are countless other examples of this happening or have happened. It's not a case of companies 'treating their staff like $hit', Irish ones can do that too, but if you are employed by a corporate entity that is interested with nothing but maximum profits for their worldwide 'shareholders' you better do your homework and realise that is the end game of these companies, and that is all they care about. You get in bed with these f**kers that will inevitably be the end result.
Plenty more of this $hit is coming in the pipeline for people that think they are secure in the likes of the big pharma/tech companies too.

I've worked for plenty of multinationals and they are as secure to work for as any Irish software/tech company that I've worked for. Working with a multinational has added benefit of better wages and conditions. Other benefits include no one acting like they did you a favor by giving you a job, and no family members and friends being hired for positions that they haven't a fu*king clue about doing and having everyone else do their job for them.

buried · 27-11-2020 11:45pm

DubInMeath wrote: »

I've worked for plenty of multinationals and they are as secure to work for as any Irish software/tech company that I've worked for. Working with a multinational has added benefit of better wages and conditions. Other benefits include no one acting like they did you a favor by giving you a job, and no family members and friends being hired for positions that they haven't a fu*king clue about doing and having everyone else do their job for them.

That's great for you man. Pity about the 13,000 in Arcadia though isn't it?
Hope your luck continues. I genuinely mean it too.

Guy:Incognito · 27-11-2020 11:50pm

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

so maybe we need to rethink the whole clothing system anyway.

Well, Im willing to come out at this early stage and say Im going to continue wearing clothes.

46 Long · 28-11-2020 12:16am

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

Well, Im willing to come out at this early stage and say Im going to continue wearing clothes.

Guy:Incognito · 28-11-2020 12:23am

Ok, Im willing to meet people half way on this. Half the population should stop wearing clothes. I vote it should be women

28-11-2020 12:33am

buried wrote: »

That's great for you man. Pity about the 13,000 in Arcadia though isn't it?
Hope your luck continues. I genuinely mean it too.

It is terrible for them, especially those in the U.K. whose welfare system means your effectively fu*ked and it's an English company letting them go.
For the 300 odd Irish employees, I hope that they get another job soon, but when I did retail security most of their employees especially in topshop were part time 3rd level students and worked there for beer money and the fact that they were better to work for than Dunnes, I don't think that has changed much in the last 20 years.
Those who were in management positions with them might find it harder to get similar positions, especially given how retail and how people shop is changing over the last few years.

buried · 28-11-2020 12:50am

DubInMeath wrote: »

It is terrible for them, especially those in the U.K. whose welfare system means your effectively fu*ked and it's an English company letting them go.
For the 300 odd Irish employees, I hope that they get another job soon, but when I did retail security most of their employees especially in topshop were part time 3rd level students and worked there for beer money and the fact that they were better to work for than Dunnes, I don't think that has changed much in the last 20 years.
Those who were in management positions with them might find it harder to get similar positions, especially given how retail and how people shop is changing over the last few years.

There is going to be far more than 300 people let go from here. These stores just don't operate on Grafton St, they have outlets throughout the island. It's not a 'english company' letting them go though either, these companies trade through England but the vast majority of their shareholders are from Asia. The financials are based in London but the companies and their base conglomerates are all based in where their sweatshop $hithouses are based, which is in Asia and beyond. The profits are siphoned off in London and a percentage goes back afterwards, this is the reality of multinational corporate existence. Ireland would do well to learn from it and keep the f**k away from it. The exact same thing is going to happen in a few years when the tech/pharma companies can no longer wrangle the tax breaks they currently receive from our revenue and they will ship off somewhere else they have already their eyes on.

28-11-2020 12:59am

buried wrote: »

There is going to be far more than 300 people let go from here. These stores just don't operate on Grafton St, they have outlets throughout the island. It's not a 'english company' letting them go though either, these companies trade through England but the vast majority of their shareholders are from Asia. The financials are based in London but the companies and their base conglomerates are all based in where their sweatshop $hithouses are based, which is in Asia and beyond. The profits are siphoned off in London and a percentage goes back afterwards, this is the reality of multinational corporate existence. Ireland would do well to learn fro it and keep the f**k away from it.

324 Irish employees in 2018, down from 356 in 2017.
http://www.top1000.ie/arcadia

Going by your logic about shareholders every company including Irish ones are stateless, especially given that Dunnes are also a multinational company.

As for the rest of your post, where do you think any Irish retailer sources their products other than the same places in Asia.

buried · 28-11-2020 1:05am

DubInMeath wrote: »

324 Irish employees in 2018, down from 356 in 2017.
http://www.top1000.ie/arcadia

Going by your logic about shareholders every company including Irish ones are stateless, especially given that Dunnes are also a multinational company.

As for the rest of your post, where do you think any Irish retailer sources their products other than the same places in Asia.

Looks like they were already getting rid of Irish employees before all this 'covid' noise raired its head anyways, so looks like the trajectory worked out for them well. I'm actually surprised there was only that amount considering their presence on this island.

What Irish products are you talking about? Because the only ones I'm interested and care about are the ones we actually make for ourselves.

Arcadia group collapse.

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