Advertisement
If you have a new account but are having problems posting or verifying your account, please email us on hello@boards.ie for help. Thanks :)
Hello all! Please ensure that you are posting a new thread or question in the appropriate forum. The Feedback forum is overwhelmed with questions that are having to be moved elsewhere. If you need help to verify your account contact hello@boards.ie
Hi all! We have been experiencing an issue on site where threads have been missing the latest postings. The platform host Vanilla are working on this issue. A workaround that has been used by some is to navigate back from 1 to 10+ pages to re-sync the thread and this will then show the latest posts. Thanks, Mike.
Hi there,
There is an issue with role permissions that is being worked on at the moment.
If you are having trouble with access or permissions on regional forums please post here to get access: https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058365403/you-do-not-have-permission-for-that#latest

Council Inspection for HAP

13»

Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,360 ✭✭✭Rows Grower


    Mad_maxx wrote: »
    ventilation is indeed very important , i just think the councils are far too rigid about it , unwilling to show flexibility , one size fits all does not work in practice

    I renovated a rental house last year and installed a triple glazed window in one bedroom that is designed with an option of opening a little specifically for ventilation while still being securely locked.

    I rang the engineer that will be doing the inspection and he told me over the phone he was familiar with that design of window and they are a great job but because of regulations I would still need to fit a vent.

    The window it replaced was good enough to pass inspection 12 years previously after I drilled a few holes through the upper part of the frame and fitted a 6 euro ventilated plastic cover on both sides.

    Only option was to drill through 16 inches of stone wall and fit a vent.

    "Very soon we are going to Mars. You wouldn't have been going to Mars if my opponent won, that I can tell you. You wouldn't even be thinking about it."

    Donald Trump, March 13th 2018.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,216 ✭✭✭mel123


    Tenant recently (three months ago) due to Covid has gone on HAP. I rang them last week as i never received anything in regards to if they did an inspection. I got told in 'normal' times, it takes about 8 months for their inspection, but at the moment its a lot longer. (awkward tenant to i want a HAP inspection)


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,360 ✭✭✭Rows Grower


    mel123 wrote: »
    Tenant recently (three months ago) due to Covid has gone on HAP. I rang them last week as i never received anything in regards to if they did an inspection. I got told in 'normal' times, it takes about 8 months for their inspection, but at the moment its a lot longer. (awkward tenant to i want a HAP inspection)

    There's not you can do with an awkward tenant only comply with regulations and tell them not to be annoying you over mickey mouse problems.

    Did you draw up a new tenancy agreement because of the change in circumstances?

    "Very soon we are going to Mars. You wouldn't have been going to Mars if my opponent won, that I can tell you. You wouldn't even be thinking about it."

    Donald Trump, March 13th 2018.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,279 ✭✭✭The Student


    Nobody should be renting out a property without a vent in each bedroom and the living room at the very least along with extractor fans for other rooms.

    This is not an "issue", it's basic common sense that the abode should be well ventilated otherwise mould will surface quickly and there are other potential risks particularly around dampness.

    Not only is this a health hazard to the tenants it is also a strange way of maintaining a property that itself will be damaged in short order due to dampness and mould.

    At what point do tenants actually act like adults. I have lived in houses built in 1940's (original corpo houses) and now live in a house built in the mid 1970's. None of them had vents in the bedrooms. I have insulated my current house and don't suffer with damp or mould.

    How is it that tenants can live in exactly the same types of houses and they have damp and mould while others don't. Could it be the way they are acting rather than the construction of the property?

    It never ceases to amaze me how it never seems to be the tenants fault but it is always the landlords fault.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,968 ✭✭✭aquinn


    At what point do tenants actually act like adults. I have lived in houses built in 1940's (original corpo houses) and now live in a house built in the mid 1970's. None of them had vents in the bedrooms. I have insulated my current house and don't suffer with damp or mould.

    How is it that tenants can live in exactly the same types of houses and they have damp and mould while others don't. Could it be the way they are acting rather than the construction of the property?

    It never ceases to amaze me how it never seems to be the tenants fault but it is always the landlords fault.

    It is not the tenants deciding that they need vents in the room, it is the local housing authority when they come out to inspect. Our home doesn't have vents in every room but our rental property does which is a newer house, like 70+ years rather than 100. All rooms had ventilation like a fireplace but this wasn't acceptable to the local authority so vents had to be made in the walls.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 32,634 ✭✭✭✭Graces7


    At what point do tenants actually act like adults. I have lived in houses built in 1940's (original corpo houses) and now live in a house built in the mid 1970's. None of them had vents in the bedrooms. I have insulated my current house and don't suffer with damp or mould.

    How is it that tenants can live in exactly the same types of houses and they have damp and mould while others don't. Could it be the way they are acting rather than the construction of the property?

    It never ceases to amaze me how it never seems to be the tenants fault but it is always the landlords fault.

    Assuring you we ( tenants) are not always like that! I had my own dehumidifier in two houses that had black mould no matter how much air there was. And I love open doors and windows.

    The worst rental was an old cottage where everything acquired damp and mould, and the wind came in through the slatted bedroom ceiling.

    One night there was an almighty deluge and water came up through the stone flags in the kitchen.. They had been laid on the bare earth we learned, The landlord tried to blame us, saying it was a blocked gutter, but I had cleared those and kept them clear,
    The agent agreed I could evacuate as an emergency. She was a JP.

    By then there were three inches of water in the kitchen and the dogs were.... doing doggy paddle.

    When the landlord realised I had left, he called my family begging me to return. Then got nasty when we said NO WAY. Started the blame game..

    There are good guys and bad guys on both sides. Always have been and always will be.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,279 ✭✭✭The Student


    aquinn wrote: »
    It is not the tenants deciding that they need vents in the room, it is the local housing authority when they come out to inspect. Our home doesn't have vents in every room but our rental property does which is a newer house, like 70+ years rather than 100. All rooms had ventilation like a fireplace but this wasn't acceptable to the local authority so vents had to be made in the walls.

    I think you are missing my point. The area I live in has over a thousand privately owned houses (a small few are rented out). These are all 3 bed semi detached built in the mid 70's.

    I can identify which houses are rented and which are not simply by looking at the bedroom walls and seeing vents in them. I can guarantee that the owners of the properties that do not have vents do not have mould etc.

    The point I am trying to make is that if damp and mould was as a result of how the properties were built then all houses should be suffering from damp and mould. This is not the case, so the only conclusion that can therefore be drawn from this is that the causes of damp and mould has to be as a result of the inhabitants rather than the structure itself.

    While I appreciate that there can be issues in some houses with damp and mould as a result of leaking pipework, gutters etc the numbers of issues with damp and mould can't all be down to these factors.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,279 ✭✭✭The Student


    Graces7 wrote: »
    Assuring you we ( tenants) are not always like that! I had my own dehumidifier in two houses that had black mould no matter how much air there was. And I love open doors and windows.

    The worst rental was an old cottage where everything acquired damp and mould, and the wind came in through the slatted bedroom ceiling.

    One night there was an almighty deluge and water came up through the stone flags in the kitchen.. They had been laid on the bare earth we learned, The landlord tried to blame us, saying it was a blocked gutter, but I had cleared those and kept them clear,
    The agent agreed I could evacuate as an emergency. She was a JP.

    By then there were three inches of water in the kitchen and the dogs were.... doing doggy paddle.

    When the landlord realised I had left, he called my family begging me to return. Then got nasty when we said NO WAY. Started the blame game..

    There are good guys and bad guys on both sides. Always have been and always will be.

    These type of properties are the exception rather than the rule. The vast majority of houses built in Ireland are either semi D's, or terraced etc. While there are cottages in Ireland most of the rented houses in Ireland fall into the semi D or terrace category.

    Granted there are more and more apartments being rented now but the majority of these apartment blocks have only been constructed in the last 15 - 20 yrs or so.

    Based on the language used in your post the property you referenced was an old property and as such you should have expected that it was not a modern build and as such would suffer from some age related issues.

    I would assume the property probably did not have any damp course which probably added to the damp and mould issues.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 32,634 ✭✭✭✭Graces7


    These type of properties are the exception rather than the rule. The vast majority of houses built in Ireland are either semi D's, or terraced etc. While there are cottages in Ireland most of the rented houses in Ireland fall into the semi D or terrace category.

    Granted there are more and more apartments being rented now but the majority of these apartment blocks have only been constructed in the last 15 - 20 yrs or so.

    Based on the language used in your post the property you referenced was an old property and as such you should have expected that it was not a modern build and as such would suffer from some age related issues.

    I would assume the property probably did not have any damp course which probably added to the damp and mould issues.

    That was not my point and again t is " blame the tenant" time? As the landlord tried to do! Actually it does reinforce my point! Thank you. And regardless of age basic standards laid down still apply?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,279 ✭✭✭The Student


    Graces7 wrote: »
    That was not my point and again t is " blame the tenant" time? As the landlord tried to do! Actually it does reinforce my point! Thank you. And regardless of age basic standards laid down still apply?

    So are you saying that the tenant is never at fault for dampness and mould? And that mould and damp is always due to the construction of the property?


  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 837 ✭✭✭crossmolinalad


    I think you are missing my point. The area I live in has over a thousand privately owned houses (a small few are rented out). These are all 3 bed semi detached built in the mid 70's.

    I can identify which houses are rented and which are not simply by looking at the bedroom walls and seeing vents in them. I can guarantee that the owners of the properties that do not have vents do not have mould etc.

    The point I am trying to make is that if damp and mould was as a result of how the properties were built then all houses should be suffering from damp and mould. This is not the case, so the only conclusion that can therefore be drawn from this is that the causes of damp and mould has to be as a result of the inhabitants rather than the structure itself.

    While I appreciate that there can be issues in some houses with damp and mould as a result of leaking pipework, gutters etc the numbers of issues with damp and mould can't all be down to these factors.

    Think home owners are more secure on their home and opening windows on a daily base and a tenant not
    Those vents in rentals sucks , know tenants who close those vents with old clothes or glassfibre wool
    Seen one case they filled it with expanding foam
    Some cases of damp is the structure specially in old houses but most of then is lack of ventilation by the tenant and drying clothes inside without opening of a window in the room
    Think that will be the main reason HAP inspectors want those stupid vents in every room in the house


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,279 ✭✭✭The Student


    Think home owners are more secure on their home and opening windows on a daily base and a tenant not
    Those vents in rentals sucks , know tenants who close those vents with old clothes or glassfibre wool
    Seen one case they filled it with expanding foam
    Some cases of damp is the structure specially in old houses but most of then is lack of ventilation by the tenant and drying clothes inside without opening of a window in the room
    Think that will be the main reason HAP inspectors want those stupid vents in every room in the house

    This is exactly my point. Tenants actions that the landlord is held accountable for.

    Some of the older houses need updating but not houses built certainly from the 1970's onwards.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 32,634 ✭✭✭✭Graces7


    So are you saying that the tenant is never at fault for dampness and mould? And that mould and damp is always due to the construction of the property?

    lol... ;) I have never ever been at fault re damp and mould in any of the properties I have rented. And in over half the properties I have rented there has been existing damp/mould. And with the exception of the one that flooded I have always left properties drier and in better condition that when I moved in. And the way that landlord acted? Blaming …. wriggling out of it.

    Over and out!


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,360 ✭✭✭Rows Grower


    Think home owners are more secure on their home and opening windows on a daily base and a tenant not
    Those vents in rentals sucks , know tenants who close those vents with old clothes or glassfibre wool
    Seen one case they filled it with expanding foam
    Some cases of damp is the structure specially in old houses but most of then is lack of ventilation by the tenant and drying clothes inside without opening of a window in the room
    Think that will be the main reason HAP inspectors want those stupid vents in every room in the house

    Nail on the head there in my experience, too mean to use the tumble dryer provided and too lazy to use the clothes line even in the sunniest of weather.

    "Very soon we are going to Mars. You wouldn't have been going to Mars if my opponent won, that I can tell you. You wouldn't even be thinking about it."

    Donald Trump, March 13th 2018.



  • Registered Users Posts: 984 ✭✭✭arrianalexander


    How long in people's experience does it take from inspection to issuing the report ?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,452 ✭✭✭✭DrPhilG


    Thread bump...


    I have a property rented, has been rented for 9 years since I moved out of it myself.


    This year I got my first HAP tenant, and sure enough a letter arrived soon after to say that I would be inspected and the placed needed brought up to code.


    I did the obvious stuff first, window restrictors. Already had smoke alarms, carbon monoxide alarms, fire blanket etc. But I had a spark in to check the place, and he said that there was a load of stuff to do. Changing switch heights, rewiring a load of circuits etc. Quoted about €5k.


    That's a kick in the teeth, but if it needs done, it needs done. However that spark wasn't very helpful, wasn't prepared to chase walls etc to do the job right, insisted on external ducting across the ceiling and down to the switches etc, would have made a dogs dinner of the place.


    Anyway I've been chasing a few other sparks etc to get me a quote to do the job right, but being tradesmen of course they're slow as hell.


    I've just got a letter to say that the council inspector is coming NEXT WEEK.


    Anyone know what the process is? They're not going to start throwing fines my way now are they? Or do they just give me a list of what's wrong and a time frame to complete it?


    As I say I don't mind paying the money, but it needs done properly and without leaving the place looking like crap.



  • Posts: 1,169 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    They should give you a list of what upgrades are required and a reasonable timeframe to do them.

    Id never heard of the lowering of switches till your post. Wouldn’t installing smart bulbs/Alexa do the same thing?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,452 ✭✭✭✭DrPhilG


    Not sure to be honest. I wish it would, this rewiring job is going to cost a bloody fortune.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,279 ✭✭✭The Student


    They will give you a list of what needs to be done and you will get 6 or 7 weeks to do the work.

    I never heard about moving light switches before. If your house was rewired from the 70s onwards I don't know why it needs rewiring. A few extra sockets maybe separating into a few circuits but not a full rewire.

    Any chance electrican is trying to pull a fast one?

    Personally I would not do anything until you get the report.



  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,452 ✭✭✭✭DrPhilG


    I don't know if it has been rewired since the 70s to be honest.


    I've been told that the council need a certificate of compliance with electrical regulations, and 3 different sparks have said that one of the criteria is lowering of switches.


    I'll get more info on what legislation requires it and report back.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,814 ✭✭✭antoinolachtnai


    Who told you this?

    they might (in my experience they did not) ask for a periodic inspection report.

    The fact that an installation does not comply with the current standards does not mean there is anything wrong with it.

    The standard for electrical work in the regulation is ‘good repair and safe working order’. There is no requirement to comply with the latest standard that I know of

    not all electricians are interested in doing inspection work.


    https://safeelectric.ie/help-advice/periodic-inspection-reports/



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 32,634 ✭✭✭✭Graces7


    The electrician who came here as the place had been empty years and inspection is mandatory after I think two years, does these inspections all the time for the council as this is council owned. Fitted smoke and co2 alarms etc .



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,452 ✭✭✭✭DrPhilG


    Thanks all. It'll be interesting to ee what the inspection actually shows then. They'll tell me what I actually need to do rather than a spark giving an opinion.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,597 ✭✭✭emeldc


    Exactly. A bit like the NCT. Don’t fix it until they tell you it’s broken.

    For the record, I was inspected in late 2017. I totally ignored the report. They came back to check the progress earlier this year nearly 4 years later. No work done. I was issued with a copy of the report and a warning that I could be issued with a prohibition order. Again I binned it. I haven’t heard anything from them yet and I don’t really care because I finally succeeded in getting my tenant out and I’m selling up.

    I’m not saying you should do what I did but if they issue a prohibition order they will be shooting themselves in the foot because they’ll need to find ‘their’ hap tenant a new house. How quickly do you think that will happen.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,452 ✭✭✭✭DrPhilG


    Particularly when I'm in Donegal with a pending rental crisis due to Mica. I can't imagine they'll be too keen on trying to get a HAP tenant family of 4 rehoused.


    That said, whatever they ask me to do, I will do it.



  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,597 ✭✭✭emeldc


    Do post back and let us know what they ask for.



  • Registered Users Posts: 533 ✭✭✭The devils


    Dr phil

    Woukd you PM the details of the windows restrictors please.

    If your having difficulty getting a sparks to complete the work I'll PM the one I got. (I work in Dublin city council) they use this crowd for the periodic inspection reports etc..



  • Registered Users Posts: 266 ✭✭size5


    yep same thing happened to us on a Fingal inspection: Filtered hood but no outside ventilation though there is a window in a small kitchen. Solution got hole bored in wall and a bathroom type extractor fan fitted. Sorted thought the tenant himself admits he never uses it!!



Advertisement