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Council Inspection for HAP

  • 04-02-2019 10:22pm
    #1
    Registered Users Posts: 174 ✭✭ mr_cochise


    Hi all,
    the following is from the council's report of our rented property inspection... "Sitting room has a heat producing appliance. Change vent cover from open/close to one which is permanently fixed in an open position."

    The room in question has an open fire place. There is no wall vent but there are vents in the windows. House built in 2008.
    I cannot find the specific requirements in the regulations.

    Any thoughts?


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Comments

  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 31,241 Mod ✭✭✭✭ Gumbo


    mr_cochise wrote: »
    Hi all,
    the following is from the council's report of our rented property inspection... "Sitting room has a heat producing appliance. Change vent cover from open/close to one which is permanently fixed in an open position."

    The room in question has an open fire place. There is no wall vent but there are vents in the windows. House built in 2008.
    I cannot find the specific requirements in the regulations.

    Any thoughts?

    Technical Guidance Document Part J and Part F.


  • Registered Users Posts: 724 ✭✭✭ Askthe EA


    mr_cochise wrote: »
    Hi all,
    the following is from the council's report of our rented property inspection... "Sitting room has a heat producing appliance. Change vent cover from open/close to one which is permanently fixed in an open position."

    The room in question has an open fire place. There is no wall vent but there are vents in the windows. House built in 2008.
    I cannot find the specific requirements in the regulations.

    Any thoughts?


    Need to get a vent hole bored through the wall.


  • Registered Users Posts: 6,699 ✭✭✭ Rows Grower


    mr_cochise wrote: »
    Hi all,
    the following is from the council's report of our rented property inspection... "Sitting room has a heat producing appliance. Change vent cover from open/close to one which is permanently fixed in an open position."

    The room in question has an open fire place. There is no wall vent but there are vents in the windows. House built in 2008.
    I cannot find the specific requirements in the regulations.

    Any thoughts?

    Contact the person that signed the letter and they will gladly explain exactly what it is you have to do. They no more want to be calling back and forth to your rented property than you do.

    "Very soon we are going to Mars. You wouldn't have been going to Mars if my opponent won, that I can tell you. You wouldn't even be thinking about it."

    Donald Trump, March 13th 2018.



  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,293 ✭✭✭ TheBoyConor


    There is already a vent hole bored. It is just the internal cover needs to be changed for one that isn't closable. Shoudl cost about a tenner.

    However, in my experience the closable vent covers as usually so flimsy and wobbly that they might as well be fully open while in the "closed" position.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,586 ✭✭✭ emeldc


    mr_cochise wrote: »
    Hi all,
    the following is from the council's report of our rented property inspection... "Sitting room has a heat producing appliance. Change vent cover from open/close to one which is permanently fixed in an open position."

    The room in question has an open fire place. There is no wall vent but there are vents in the windows. House built in 2008.
    I cannot find the specific requirements in the regulations.

    Any thoughts?

    Yea, sounds like the vent just has to be one that's open all the time.
    I had an inspection about 15 months ago and was issued with a list of nonsense that was going to cost well over €1k. I ignored it and haven't heard from them since.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 349 ✭✭ Aye Bosun


    I had something similar not with the HAP scheme but with SEAI grant scheme when i got external insulation installed..the SEAI inspector said that vent in the sitting was not ok because it could be closed. All that it needed to pass was for a screw to be fitted to keep the vent from being closed. I did it myself right in front of the inspector and he passed it there and then..easy fix!


  • Registered Users Posts: 174 ✭✭ mr_cochise


    Thank you all of your input.
    The tenant is not too keen on a new vent hole. She has seen one in a neighbour's house and it lets in a lot of noise from the estate outside.


  • Registered Users Posts: 24,686 ✭✭✭✭ punisher5112


    mr_cochise wrote: »
    Thank you all of your input.
    The tenant is not too keen on a new vent hole. She has seen one in a neighbour's house and it lets in a lot of noise from the estate outside.

    You can get inserts that help prevent wind noise and other sounds.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,586 ✭✭✭ emeldc


    mr_cochise wrote: »
    Thank you all of your input.
    The tenant is not too keen on a new vent hole. She has seen one in a neighbour's house and it lets in a lot of noise from the estate outside.
    Unfortunately that’s not your problem. Tell the tenant to take it up with the council.


  • Registered Users Posts: 174 ✭✭ mr_cochise


    emeldc wrote:
    Yea, sounds like the vent just has to be one that's open all the time. I had an inspection about 15 months ago and was issued with a list of nonsense that was going to cost well over €1k. I ignored it and haven't heard from them since.

    A colleague of mine said he also ignored it about 2 years ago and there was no further noise about it.

    There are a few other minor items on the report that I don't mind doing, ie, window restrictors and putting the fire blanket in a more prominent place. These are clearly spelled out in the regs.
    It was just that the regs are not so specific on the ventilation.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 2,586 ✭✭✭ emeldc


    mr_cochise wrote: »
    A colleague of mine said he also ignored it about 2 years ago and there was no further noise about it.

    There are a few other minor items on the report that I don't mind doing, ie, window restrictors and putting the fire blanket in a more prominent place. These are clearly spelled out in the regs.
    It was just that the regs are not so specific on the ventilation.

    In my case one of the things needed was a expelair fan in the kitchen. The problem is it’s not on an outside wall so the vent would need to go through the bathroom and one of the bedrooms. This requirement is not in the regs for a private tenant, just a hap tenant because the freeloaders are special. I’ve a pain in me hoop with the system and hopefully by next year I’ll be in a position to sell up and be shut of the whole fiasco. Sorry for the rant :)


  • Registered Users Posts: 174 ✭✭ mr_cochise


    You can get inserts that help prevent wind noise and other sounds.

    emeldc wrote:
    In my case one of the things needed was a expelair fan in the kitchen. The problem is it’s not on an outside wall so the vent would need to go through the bathroom and one of the bedrooms. This requirement is not in the regs for a private tenant, just a hap tenant because the freeloaders are special. I’ve a pain in me hoop with the system and hopefully by next year I’ll be in a position to sell up and be shut of the whole fiasco. Sorry for the rant


    I totally understand where you're coming from. I look after that house and any issues have always been dealt with in a timely manner. The ventilation in the living room was fine for me for 5 years when I lived there.
    I should be ready to bail out in about 3 years myself.


  • Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 60,977 Mod ✭✭✭✭ L1011


    emeldc wrote: »
    the freeloaders are special.

    This language is unacceptable and against the forum charter


  • Registered Users Posts: 793 ✭✭✭ ImARebel


    I'm beginning to **** myself. We've a tenant, he asked would we accept HAP as he's now entitled to it. We said OK not knowing we can get landed with a list a mile long of "improvements"

    Apartment is in great condition, maintained annually and tenant never wants for anything repair wise or anything.

    I'm seriously worried as we don't have the cash for all of this :(

    What happens if you don't do the repairs. Is it as simple as not being eligible for HAP?


  • Registered Users Posts: 6,687 ✭✭✭ Grumpypants


    ImARebel wrote: »
    I'm beginning to **** myself. We've a tenant, he asked would we accept HAP as he's now entitled to it. We said OK not knowing we can get landed with a list a mile long of "improvements"

    Apartment is in great condition, maintained annually and tenant never wants for anything repair wise or anything.

    I'm seriously worried as we don't have the cash for all of this :(

    What happens if you don't do the repairs. Is it as simple as not being eligible for HAP?

    If it's a newish and well looked after apartment. You should be fine. At most they will want a fire blanket or something small like that.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,586 ✭✭✭ emeldc


    ImARebel wrote: »
    I'm beginning to **** myself. We've a tenant, he asked would we accept HAP as he's now entitled to it. We said OK not knowing we can get landed with a list a mile long of "improvements"

    Apartment is in great condition, maintained annually and tenant never wants for anything repair wise or anything.

    I'm seriously worried as we don't have the cash for all of this :(

    What happens if you don't do the repairs. Is it as simple as not being eligible for HAP?
    I think I remember seeing something on my letter saying if the repairs were not carried out that the property would be blacklisted as unfit for renting or something along those lines. Try and keep getting the rent off him while the application goes through. They don’t pay arrears and will even use the deposit held by you as part of the rent due. In my case the tenant ended up €1100 in arrears with no deposit. And HAP couldn’t give a fcuk.


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,316 ✭✭✭ Pkiernan


    Ventilation requirements are important, have real legal implications if not met, and identical for HAP and non HAP tenants alike.

    Ignore ventilation requirements at your peril.

    You're on written notice from the Council.
    If your tenant lights a fire and the chimney is not venting right, there's a real chance of carbon monoxide issues.
    Put a CO detector in that room too.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,586 ✭✭✭ emeldc


    Pkiernan wrote: »
    Ventilation requirements are important, have real legal implications if not met, and identical for HAP and non HAP tenants alike.

    Ignore ventilation requirements at your peril.

    You're on written notice from the Council.
    If your tenant lights a fire and the chimney is not venting right, there's a real chance of carbon monoxide issues.
    Put a CO detector in that room too.
    The kitchen ventilation requirements for local authority tenants or housing are greater than those required by private tenants. Is it that HAP tenants are more likely to poison themselves with the smell of their own cooking. It doesn't relate to carbon monoxide in this instance.


  • Registered Users Posts: 17,942 ✭✭✭✭ Del2005


    emeldc wrote: »
    I think I remember seeing something on my letter saying if the repairs were not carried out that the property would be blacklisted as unfit for renting or something along those lines. Try and keep getting the rent off him while the application goes through. They don’t pay arrears and will even use the deposit held by you as part of the rent due. In my case the tenant ended up €1100 in arrears with no deposit. And HAP couldn’t give a fcuk.

    Since it's illegal to discriminate against HAP, but HAP insist on applying building regulations not required for a property. Could a landlord ask for a HAP inspection before getting tenants to see how much it will cost to bring it up to HAP standard? They could then decide if they want to get blacklisted or not before they have tenants and could legally refuse HAP.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,586 ✭✭✭ emeldc


    Del2005 wrote: »
    Since it's illegal to discriminate against HAP, but HAP insist on applying building regulations not required for a property. Could a landlord ask for a HAP inspection before getting tenants to see how much it will cost to bring it up to HAP standard? They could then decide if they want to get blacklisted or not before they have tenants and could legally refuse HAP.
    Not sure but I doubt it. Sure you need a tax clearance cert as well. If you haven’t got one I don’t think they allow you to use that as an excuse either. ie the tenant stays but you don’t get paid until you produce the cert.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 793 ✭✭✭ ImARebel


    If it's a newish and well looked after apartment. You should be fine. At most they will want a fire blanket or something small like that.

    We supplied a fire extinguisher maybe I need to get a fire blanket too then


  • Registered Users Posts: 793 ✭✭✭ ImARebel


    emeldc wrote: »
    I think I remember seeing something on my letter saying if the repairs were not carried out that the property would be blacklisted as unfit for renting or something along those lines. Try and keep getting the rent off him while the application goes through. They don’t pay arrears and will even use the deposit held by you as part of the rent due. In my case the tenant ended up €1100 in arrears with no deposit. And HAP couldn’t give a fcuk.

    He's a great tenant (hence the reason we didn't want to lose him) he actually over paid in that he paid for the month Hap paid so we'd to refund him.

    I've no worries on that front. At least not at the moment


  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 31,241 Mod ✭✭✭✭ Gumbo


    emeldc wrote: »
    The kitchen ventilation requirements for local authority tenants or housing are greater than those required by private tenants. Is it that HAP tenants are more likely to poison themselves with the smell of their own cooking. It doesn't relate to carbon monoxide in this instance.

    ventilation requirements are set out in Part F of the building regulations.
    Ventilation is required to keep the building fresh, free from mould and to provide a clean air environment for the dwellings inhabitants.

    CO is a totally different issue and ventilation some doesn’t aid in this area, hence the requirement for CO alarm in certain areas.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,586 ✭✭✭ emeldc


    kceire wrote: »
    ventilation requirements are set out in Part F of the building regulations.
    Ventilation is required to keep the building fresh, free from mould and to provide a clean air environment for the dwellings inhabitants.

    CO is a totally different issue and ventilation some doesn’t aid in this area, hence the requirement for CO alarm in certain areas.
    My apartment meets the building regs. The minimum standards for renting differ between private and HAP tenants.


  • Registered Users Posts: 831 ✭✭✭ GGTrek


    ImARebel wrote: »
    We supplied a fire extinguisher maybe I need to get a fire blanket too then
    Fire extinguisher is not needed, fire blanket is required by current regs for renting.


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,316 ✭✭✭ Pkiernan


    emeldc wrote: »
    My apartment meets the building regs. The minimum standards for renting differ between private and HAP tenants.

    With regards to ventilation there is no difference.

    Minimum landlord obligations detailed here:

    http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/housing/renting_a_home/repairs_maintenance_and_minimum_physical_standards.html#l629ff


  • Registered Users Posts: 17,942 ✭✭✭✭ Del2005


    emeldc wrote: »
    Not sure but I doubt it. Sure you need a tax clearance cert as well. If you haven’t got one I don’t think they allow you to use that as an excuse either. ie the tenant stays but you don’t get paid until you produce the cert.

    Once the tenant, or council, does not pay the rent you can start eviction proceedings. Granted that you will be a while evicting them but you would then be blacklisted by HAP so couldn't except another HAP tenant.

    Similarly since it appears that no building over 5 years old meets HAP requirements and the government cannot force someone to meet higher standards than applied at the time of construction. Could the landlord state that the building does not meet HAP requirements and will not be brought up to their standard. I live in an apartment so if I was to ever rent it out I can't make alterations, as I don't own the walls, so I couldn't make it HAP compliment so why waste everyone's time.


  • Registered Users Posts: 9,072 ✭✭✭ antoinolachtnai


    What are these special HAP rules? These are just the standards for renter dwellings surely?


  • Registered Users Posts: 793 ✭✭✭ ImARebel


    GGTrek wrote: »
    Fire extinguisher is not needed, fire blanket is required by current regs for renting.

    Cheers I'll invest in one


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  • Registered Users Posts: 2,835 ✭✭✭ massy086


    mr_cochise wrote: »
    A colleague of mine said he also ignored it about 2 years ago and there was no further noise about it.

    There are a few other minor items on the report that I don't mind doing, ie, window restrictors and putting the fire blanket in a more prominent place. These are clearly spelled out in the regs.
    It was just that the regs are not so specific on the ventilation.
    make Sure the window restrictor are the non locking with a key type as the won't accept these.


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