Donald Trump Presidency discussion Thread VI

Overheal · 15-10-2019 9:47am

Annual GDP never hit 4%, hell it never got past 3.0%. That’s not what Trump promised; There were 4+% GDP quarters under Obama too. Besides, the GDP forecast has it slowing down even lower over the next few years. Tax cuts haven’t brought about the expected growth, in fact the treasury has had to borrow more than almost ever since the cuts were enacted - trump also promised to eliminate the debt. He also said trade wars were easy to win. He also has threatened/promised Turkey with ‘economic ruin’ or some derivation of that numerous times during his presidency and they still do whatever they want and Trump keeps reneging. Trump promised Mexico would pay for the wall and he can’t even get Americans to pay for the wall. Just saying.

TomOnBoard · 15-10-2019 9:55am

I suspect that he is itching to be called to testify.

According to the WaPo "Hill testified Monday that Bolton was furious over Giuliani’s politically motivated activities in Ukraine, two officials familiar with her testimony said. She recounted how Bolton likened the former New York mayor to a “hand grenade who’s going to blow everybody up,” one of these people said, after Bolton learned about Giuliani’s Ukraine campaign."

https://www.washingtonpost.com/national-security/trumps-former-top-russia-adviser-to-testify-in-house-impeachment-probe/2019/10/14/e6015c1c-ee34-11e9-8693-f487e46784aa_story.html#comments-wrapper

Igotadose · 15-10-2019 9:55am

Overheal wrote: »

He also said trade wars were easy to win.

They are for China. Appears they agreed to nothing but America blinked due to complaints from our Great Patriotic Farmers (capitalization per Trump)

TomOnBoard · 15-10-2019 9:59am

Overheal wrote: »

Annual GDP never hit 4%, hell it never got past 3.0%. That’s not what Trump promised; There were 4+% GDP quarters under Obama too. Besides, the GDP forecast has it slowing down even lower over the next few years. Tax cuts haven’t brought about the expected growth, in fact the treasury has had to borrow more than almost ever since the cuts were enacted - trump also promised to eliminate the debt. He also said trade wars were easy to win. He also has threatened/promised Turkey with ‘economic ruin’ or some derivation of that numerous times during his presidency and they still do whatever they want and Trump keeps reneging. Trump promised Mexico would pay for the wall and he can’t even get Americans to pay for the wall. Just saying.

And the good old Dow Jones, that hugely significant indicator of performance according to Trump's many boasts, closed yesterday at more or less the level of January 2018.

one armed dwarf · 15-10-2019 10:06am

I know the conversation has moved on from this, but my understanding of impartiality is to just not let your biases obstruct your pursuit of the truth. It's impossible to not have bias.. especially in these polarised times.

It just happens that for Trump and his supporters they almost always finds himself in conflict with 'the truth', which is why things appear so one-sided when you have a profligate liar as pres. So if your bias is going to blind you to the facts already mentioned (failure to reduce deficit, failure to produce sustainable GDP growth, multiple indictments against the Trump admin directly resulting from the Mueller report and then this Ukraine thing), then where is the failure in objectivity really? How are these facts being misrepresented?

Now to challenge my own confirmation bias, I've noticed constantly that Trump supporters keep pointing to record low unemployment among minorities and these summits he shows up to speak at. I'm wondering if the Trumpers here could point to what specific policies Trump has taken to improve opportunities for people here. I mean this question in good faith as well, not trying to catch anyone out. But preferably something more substantial in effect than Trump showing up to speak at a summit.

ancapailldorcha · 15-10-2019 10:07am

Mod: Dismissing sources because you think they are fake news/biased/whatever is not acceptable here. A post has been deleted.

Cody montana · 15-10-2019 10:08am

Overheal wrote: »

Annual GDP never hit 4%, hell it never got past 3.0%. That’s not what Trump promised; There were 4+% GDP quarters under Obama too. Besides, the GDP forecast has it slowing down even lower over the next few years. Tax cuts haven’t brought about the expected growth, in fact the treasury has had to borrow more than almost ever since the cuts were enacted - trump also promised to eliminate the debt. He also said trade wars were easy to win. He also has threatened/promised Turkey with ‘economic ruin’ or some derivation of that numerous times during his presidency and they still do whatever they want and Trump keeps reneging. Trump promised Mexico would pay for the wall and he can’t even get Americans to pay for the wall. Just saying.

Didn’t trump say he’d get 6%?

randomname2005 · 15-10-2019 10:10am

one armed dwarf wrote: »

I know the conversation has moved on from this, but my understanding of impartiality is to just not let your biases obstruct your pursuit of the truth. It's impossible to not have bias.. especially in these polarised times.

It just happens that for Trump and his supporters they almost always finds himself in conflict with 'the truth', which is why things appear so one-sided when you have a profligate liar as pres. So if your bias is going to blind you to the facts already mentioned (failure to reduce deficit, failure to produce sustainable GDP growth, multiple indictments against the Trump admin directly resulting from the Mueller report and this Ukraine thing), then where is the failure in objectivity really? How are these facts being misrepresented?

Now to challenge my own confirmation bias, I've noticed constantly that Trump supporters keep pointing to record low unemployment among minorities and these summits he shows up to speak at. I'm wondering if the Trumpers here could point to what specific policies Trump has taken to improve opportunities for people here. I mean this question in good faith as well, not trying to catch anyone out. But preferably something more substantial in effect than Trump showing up to speak at a summit.

Or something more than a trend that was started during the previous presidency.

ancapailldorcha · 15-10-2019 10:11am

pixelburp wrote: »

Oh yes; a horrendous attempt to give Clinton some sense of trendiness that backfired immediately. Delivered with all the panache of ... well, how I'd probably do stand-up lol. I'm not sure anyone could have made the line sparkle, but her absence of timing or charisma wasn't a help. Every politician has a script, or at the very least a list of talking points, but a good politician can at least feign the ability to think on their feet or ad-lib.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jt6riM2aDLk

It still amazes me that they thought she was a good candidate. You really couldn't give Trump more to work with if you'd tried.

Cody montana · 15-10-2019 11:57am

Has the dam broken?

The Nal · 15-10-2019 12:04pm

ancapailldorcha wrote: »

It still amazes me that they thought she was a good candidate. You really couldn't give Trump more to work with if you'd tried.

She was/is dreadful and the assumption that she would just waltz into the White House based on her being a Clinton and a woman was very offputting.

Christy42 · 15-10-2019 12:09pm

Outlaw Pete wrote: »

One would have to very gullible to believe that and yes I've seen the bs articles these well trotted out remarks came from.

He said he was going to move the U.S. Embassy to Jerusalem, he did it.
He said he would make Governments pay more for protection, he did.
He said he'd build a new wall / a better wall, he has and he will.
He said he was going to withdraw from the Iran Deal, he did.
He said he would create more manufacturing jobs, he did.
He said he make unemployment hit record lows, it has.
He said Economic growth would rise above 4.0, it did.
He said there would be prison reform, there is.
Lots more accomplishments underway ....

Keep suggesting Trump's something he is not, won't make a blind bit of difference to the truth.

Last week amid the impeachment palava Trump hosted a Young Black Leaders summit and as ever it was barely picked up on by the mainstream media (other than a few who nitpicked a few seconds here and there so they could sneer) mostly because it didn't fit the left's narrative that Trump's a racist constantly dog whistling to his white supremacist base.

So for once maybe take a look at the lies of the left, and how their incessant agenda is clearly a dishonest one. Three years of pedaling a Russia-Trump conspiracy, which any journalist worth their salt knew was going to amount to nothing given what it was predicated upon.

Pretend as much as you like that the bias in CNN (and the rest) is not really all that much of an issue but it very much is. Nobody minds hosts on news networks giving their views, as Hannity or Geraldo etc does on the regular, but that is much different to what CNN do, which is position themselves as an 'objective' news source, when they know damn well they are anything but. BBC are not far off by the way, which is why some of their ex journalists have come out against them also and why they have been reprimanded for failing to be impartial.

As I said though, I don't expect you on here to agree with me as you agree with all the crap these networks put out. The way you all comment on stories is the same. The truth doesn't seem to matter at all and so I guess in one sense they do know their audience and are happy to appeal to that base who want Trump bashing and leftist viewpoints more than they want factual reporting.

He hasn't built the wall. He will is not a promise completed. He fixed a fence. He specified the materials for use in the wall in his campaign trail.

Healthcare will be so easy. I am not sure that a summit for young black leaders would count as a major accomplishment for any presidency?? Seems like low hanging fruit. But sure that is enough to allow him away with all his racist statements.

The economy has dropped. He got 4% very temporarily and it dropped off. Remember all the reports we got of the Dow hitting record highs? They seem to have disappeared.

Ah yes the investigation that led to the arrests of many Trump officials and workers and yet turned up nothing.

Penn · 15-10-2019 12:16pm

The Nal wrote: »

She was/is dreadful and the assumption that she would just waltz into the White House based on her being a Clinton and a woman was very offputting.

I still believe that almost any other Democrat other than Hillary would have beaten Trump. Male or female, centrist or far-left, old or young... wouldn't matter. They would have beaten Trump. Hillary had way too much stink on her, too much ammo for Trump to use against her, and how she got the nomination turned even Dems against her because they had tilted the whole thing in her favour.

Plus she doesn't know what balloons are.

everlast75 · 15-10-2019 12:47pm

Cody montana wrote: »

Has the dam broken?

Hats off to the two ladies - walked right in through the front door and testified.

Showed more balls than a lot of the men so far

spacecoyote · 15-10-2019 12:52pm

everlast75 wrote: »

Hats off to the two ladies - walked right in through the front door and testified.

Showed more balls than a lot of the men so far

What's happening today?

everlast75 · 15-10-2019 1:01pm

I think its Pompeo's second in command, Michael McKinley, today and Sondland thursday.

The rumours are that Michael McKinley resigned in protest.
Sondland looks like he will be a disaster too.

I don't see Pompeo getting out of this unscathed. He's up to his neck in it.

everlast75 · 15-10-2019 1:07pm

The problem when you hire people of low ethical standards is, that when the going gets tough, like rats they start to eat each other..

https://twitter.com/kwelkernbc/status/1184045842984030208?s=20

everlast75 · 15-10-2019 1:18pm

Any trump supporters left, should have a look at this..

https://twitter.com/rez512/status/1183817572271173634?s=19

gizmo · 15-10-2019 1:20pm

Penn wrote: »

I still believe that almost any other Democrat other than Hillary would have beaten Trump. Male or female, centrist or far-left, old or young... wouldn't matter. They would have beaten Trump. Hillary had way too much stink on her, too much ammo for Trump to use against her, and how she got the nomination turned even Dems against her because they had tilted the whole thing in her favour.

The stench of DNC interference appears to be rearing its head again unfortunately. Shortly after Warren's debate response at the LGBT debate began to get picked up, a bunch of Sanders supporters looked into the person who asked the question. While it was made clear at the time that the guy asking the question was the Chair of the Board of the organisation co-hosting the event with the DNC, what wasn't shared was the fact that the guy has also donated significantly (in terms of individual contributions) to not only her senate primary and general election campaigns but also her now closed PAC, the Elizabeth Warren Action Fund.

At a certain point, it goes beyond the mere appearance of impropriety...

mcmoustache · 15-10-2019 1:26pm

gizmo wrote: »

The stench of DNC interference appears to be rearing its head again unfortunately. Shortly after Warren's debate response at the LGBT debate began to get picked up, a bunch of Sanders supporters looked into the person who asked the question. While it was made clear at the time that the guy asking the question was the Chair of the Board of the organisation co-hosting the event with the DNC, what wasn't shared was the fact that the guy has also donated significantly (in terms of individual contributions) to not only her senate primary and general election campaigns but also her now closed PAC, the Elizabeth Warren Action Fund.

At a certain point, it goes beyond the mere appearance of impropriety...

Would it be common for DNC people to donate to Dem candidates?

rossie1977 · 15-10-2019 1:27pm

20Cent wrote: »

Hilary must be one of the most investigated politicians ever and they never got anything on her.
Anyone else would have had fake stories made up about them as well.

People still don't see the games being played by Republicans. Regardless who the Dems nominee is they will be torn to pieces by the media and the Republican spin machine. By the time the election comes around people will hate whoever the Dems nominate.

Obama was cleanest politican in US history to run for President and got so much s**t saying he was a socialist/communist, he was not American, he was Muslim terrorist etc etc. US was losing 800,000 jobs a month so people weren't as willing to be taken in by the propoganda.

Water John · 15-10-2019 1:28pm

I would strongly disagree with Bolton's hawkish policies but that is a different issue to acting improperly. Don't conflate the two.

It's the advantage of a spread of Democratic candidates ATM. GOP cannot focus on negative against one person, yet.

mcmoustache · 15-10-2019 1:30pm

Sure just look at the Biden stuff now. His actions on ukraine had bipartisan and international support yet now they're trying to turn it into a conspiracy.

gizmo · 15-10-2019 1:33pm

mcmoustache wrote: »

Would it be common for DNC people to donate to Dem candidates?

But of course.

What should not be common, however, is someone in their position to be allowed to ask a question at that kind of debate.

mcmoustache · 15-10-2019 1:42pm

Their interests or donations should be disclosed alright. That being said, this seems fairly minor.

pixelburp · 15-10-2019 2:03pm

Is it really that surprising that these debates' questions are asked by shills, plants and supporters? Like, this isn't even that uncommon on this side of the Atlantic, where our politics is marked more sober and civil. Definitely a stink of manufactured outrage and affecting shock from those whipping up that questioner as some kind of controversy; I guess it means Warren-as-candidate is beginning to be taken seriously.

Overheal · 15-10-2019 2:36pm

Please do not dump memes here.

duploelabs · 15-10-2019 2:47pm

mcmoustache wrote: »

Sure just look at the Biden stuff now. His actions on ukraine had bipartisan and international support yet now they're trying to turn it into a conspiracy.

It all has a bang of Roger Stone off it, what's he up to these days?

gizmo · 15-10-2019 2:52pm

mcmoustache wrote: »

Their interests or donations should be disclosed alright. That being said, this seems fairly minor.

Yes and no.

When it comes to her stance on LGBT issues, Warren has been almost wholly consistent since she first began her race for the Senate. Back in 2012 when Obama's views on same-sex marriage were still in the "evolutionary" stage she responded to his position by saying "I want to see the president evolve because I believe that is right; marriage equality is morally right". That's a clear-cut, unequivocal stance that is extremely hard to attack - especially when it is contrary to the one expressed by your President.

Now look at her response in the debate. It was made with the same level of confidence seen in the quote above but also delivered with that kind of "folksy charm & charisma" that pixelburp mentioned earlier in the thread. It was good. It was so good, it almost sounded scripted to some. So people start looking into it and what do they find? The details of the person who asked it.

Now, look at it like this; best case scenario, the motivation behind the question was utterly benign and Warren's answer was great. The only problem is that, as I mentioned above, there's now an appearance of impropriety and that can be used as a vector for partisan attack. It doesn't matter how relevant it is, it's feeding into the negative discourse around her candidacy and her actual message gets lost in the melee. You can already see the articles online from the likes of Fox, Washington Times and other less reputable outfits doing this.

Both this and, of course, the worst case scenario I alluded to in my original post, could be avoided if the DNC exercised a little bit of cop on when running these types of events. As of right now she appears to be a strong enough candidate on her own without the leadership getting involved in the same manner they did back in 2016 when their machinations left us with Clinton as their candidate.

The Nal · 15-10-2019 2:52pm

duploelabs wrote: »

It all has a bang of Roger Stone off it, what's he up to these days?

Trial starts in a few weeks.

ancapailldorcha · 15-10-2019 3:44pm

Off topic posts deleted. This thread is about Donald Trump and his presidency, not the Clintons.

26000 Elephants · 15-10-2019 3:47pm

peddlelies wrote: »

I'm sure if Trump's taxes show hundreds of millions coming from Russia you'll say the exact same thing if he walks away from it. Just a coincidence.

I'd wait for an investigation into it before having an opinion. And if the investigation found there was nothing untoward, then I'd stop going on about it and move on.

He walked away from the Mueller report, how many people here have changed their minds? Very few I imagine.

He hasn't 'walked away' from the Mueller Report- he is an unindicted conspirator. They felt they could not indict a sitting President. But on the plus side, he may not be for long more.

TomOnBoard · 15-10-2019 4:17pm

So, Hunter Biden has made an attempt at addressing the Ukraine issue, acknowledging 'poor judgement' while expressing total innocence of any wrongdoing. I'm not so sure he was well advised to do it today- Its gonna put the issue front and centre for anyone who wants to have a pop at Joe at tonights Ohio debate.

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2019/oct/15/hunter-biden-denies-wrongdoing-ukraine-swamp

TomOnBoard · 15-10-2019 4:35pm

The Nal wrote: »

Trial starts in a few weeks.

I assume that we havent heard from him because of the July ban imposed by the judge on him posting anything on social media. I saw a report in August or so that he was appealing the an on 1st Amendment grounds. Dunno where that's at, but he seems to surface in these paid "Audience With" type gigs around the States.

I read something recently about him seeming to incite the Proud Boys and some White Nationalist Militia types to mobilise to protect Trump from Impeachment.. Crazy stuff!

I can't wait for him to face trial.. If he's found not guilty, so be it! However, if found guilty, I'm sure that Manafort will move over in the cot so he doesnt have to sleep on the floor...

26000 Elephants · 15-10-2019 4:39pm

TomOnBoard wrote: »

I
I can't wait for him to face trial.. If he's found not guilty, so be it! However, if found guilty, I'm sure that Manafort will move over in the cot so he doesnt have to sleep on the floor...

Manafort will just enjoy the break from being in the barrel.

Water John · 15-10-2019 4:55pm

US have basically handed over control to Russia in Syria.
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/live/2019/oct/15/trump-news-today-live-elizabeth-warren-turkey-syria-democrats-impeachment-latest

This must rate as one of the great military and diplomatic errors of modern times. Rates about the same as the Suez crises for the UK.

Stallingrad · 15-10-2019 5:08pm

Water John wrote: »

US have basically handed over control to Russia in Syria.
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/live/2019/oct/15/trump-news-today-live-elizabeth-warren-turkey-syria-democrats-impeachment-latest

This must rate as one of the great military and diplomatic errors of modern times. Rates about the same as the Suez crises for the UK.

What was the long term play though, the US to keep a presence there indefinitely? Simply to stop the Turks from invading, or the resurgence of ISIS. That is not realistic, at some point that region has to resolve itself.

Of course I agree that given the sensitivity of the region, high level diplomacy was required to prevent what has just happened in the event of a US withdrawal. That was never going to happen with this guy at the helm.

And while Europe is happy to blame Trump they are very quiet in their condemnation of Turkey, why? Because Erdogan plans to stuff the new 'occupied terratory' with unwanted migrants that might otherwise head to Europe.

No ones hands are clean here.

Outlaw Pete · 15-10-2019 5:36pm

everlast75 wrote: »

Any trump supporters left, should have a look at this..

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IyJLKG6MWEo

**Cough**

everlast75 wrote: »

Fox News.

Take a seat son.

Funny how Fox News are all liars, until they're not.

mcmoustache · 15-10-2019 5:51pm

Outlaw Pete wrote: »

**Cough**

Funny how Fox News are all liars, until they're not.

Who said they're all liars?

It's widely acknowledged that there are a few honest people there, the recently departed Shep Smith being a popular example.

Overheal · 15-10-2019 5:55pm

Outlaw Pete wrote: »

**Cough**

Funny how Fox News are all liars, until they're not.

Fox News Division. Keep up. Thought enough of the tweetheads you follow would have already told you which Anti-Trump Pro-Truth Fox journalists were part of the Deep State by now.

everlast75 · 15-10-2019 5:55pm

Outlaw Pete wrote: »

**Cough**

Funny how Fox News are all liars, until they're not.

Not all, just most. They are getting rid of the good ones.

You will be aware that one swallow doesn't make a summer, just as one error by CCN or MSNBC doesn't mean all news reported is wrong.

Btw - do you accept the facts as set out in that piece, or is this fake news too?

An honest answer would be appreciated.

Jamiekelly · 15-10-2019 6:03pm

Outlaw Pete wrote: »

**Cough**

Funny how Fox News are all liars, until they're not.

The reason that clip is gaining traction online right now is because of how "unlike Fox" that closing segment is. In fact Cavuto and Smith have become known for that. Not all Fox News hosts are liars, but it would appear that most of them are clearly lying. Hence Fox News viewers consistently rank as the least informed group in numerous studies and have done over the past 7 years.

Not all of Fox News is lies, but it isn't exactly filled with truth if their viewers rank among the least informed group of Americans. In order to have the worst informed viewers you tend to tell them, you know, lies. :pac:

The Phantom Jipper · 15-10-2019 6:13pm

Jamiekelly wrote: »

The reason that clip is gaining traction online right now is because of how "unlike Fox" that closing segment is. In fact Cavuto and Smith have become known for that. Not all Fox News hosts are liars, but it would appear that most of them are clearly lying. Hence Fox News viewers consistently rank as the least informed group in numerous studies and have done over the past 7 years.

Not all of Fox News is lies, but it isn't exactly filled with truth if their viewers rank among the least informed group of Americans. In order to have the worst informed viewers you tend to tell them, you know, lies. :pac:

It brings to mind the study that found people who watch Fox News are less informed than people who watch no news at all.

TomOnBoard · 15-10-2019 6:35pm

Outlaw Pete wrote: »

**Cough**

Funny how Fox News are all liars, until they're not.

This is a TOTALLY dishonest post..

Many posters here have been very nuanced in respect of Fox News presenters and programmes. Shep Smith, Andrew Napolitano and Neil Cavuto have been lauded for their honesty in the face of the appalling propaganda spouted y the likes of Hannity, Ingraham, Piero, Carlson, The low-IQ 5, and others who were employed in the entertainment and opinion divisions as distinct from the news division.

Your pathetic attempt at sucking some honour for your position(s) out of Cavuto's laudable calling- out of Trump is disgusting, and further shames you if that was even possible.

I apologise in advance to the mods if I've overstepped the mark here, but this disgustingly self-serving post must be challenged!

StringerBell · 15-10-2019 8:19pm

How come that cavuto clip was doing the rounds again? That's a month or so old no? Still perfectly accurate of course and what made it stand out so much was cause it did not toe the party line of the entertainment part of fox. The trumpettes.

Cody montana · 15-10-2019 9:20pm

"The Trump administration Tuesday proposed allowing logging on more than half of Alaska’s 16.7 million-acre Tongass National Forest, the largest intact temperate rainforest in North America."

Disgraceful.

Outlaw Pete · 15-10-2019 10:03pm

Good to see see the following has been promised at least.

https://twitter.com/LindseyGrahamSC/status/1184206620026396674
https://twitter.com/LindseyGrahamSC/status/1184206623914516480

everlast75 · 15-10-2019 10:11pm

Outlaw Pete wrote: »

Good to see see the following has been promised at least.

https://twitter.com/LindseyGrahamSC/status/1184206620026396674
https://twitter.com/LindseyGrahamSC/status/1184206623914516480

Still avoiding questions and dropping tweets?

Good good.

Maybe one day you might convince somebody here that your faith in Trump/Graham/Jordan is well placed, that Fox News is the beacon of truth, the Wall is *actually* being built and that he actually deserves another 4 years.

Wouldn't hold your breath though.....

mcmoustache · 15-10-2019 10:19pm

Outlaw Pete wrote: »

Good to see see the following has been promised at least.

https://twitter.com/LindseyGrahamSC/status/1184206620026396674
https://twitter.com/LindseyGrahamSC/status/1184206623914516480

Fair play. It must be a pain in the arse having to babysit a US President.

Thargor · 15-10-2019 10:25pm

Water John wrote: »

US have basically handed over control to Russia in Syria.
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/live/2019/oct/15/trump-news-today-live-elizabeth-warren-turkey-syria-democrats-impeachment-latest

This must rate as one of the great military and diplomatic errors of modern times. Rates about the same as the Suez crises for the UK.

It had to have been something Putin had on Trump, its worked out too perfectly for Russia.

Donald Trump Presidency discussion Thread VI

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