Hub gear bike dilemma

Gandorf · 07-02-2019 5:51pm

py wrote: »

I'm fine thanks. Had I not crashed it then I may bring it back but God only knows what happened with the belt when I hit the deck. Have a new one on order from Gates but looks like their ordering system is junk so going to have to call them tomorrow to get the order moving

I'd contact the bike shop and look for a replacement anyway. You don't know that it was caused by the tumble. At the very least then you'll have a spare should something happen again.

py · 20-02-2019 4:59pm

droidus wrote: »

Yeah, its a pricey upgrade, probably about €250, but Ive done about 5000 miles so far and I do worry about the long term resilience of CDN, plus I could really use a change in gear ratio at the top.

Is there cross compatibility between the parts? Could I use a CDX sprocket with a CDN belt or is it all or nothing?

droidus · 20-02-2019 5:26pm

All or nothing afaik.

Gandorf · 20-02-2019 9:51pm

Picked up the editor last Friday. A spin to killiney and greystones on Saturday and commuting all week.
Impressed so far, very smooth, comfy and quiet. Feels solid but quite fast as well, a bit slower off the lights maybe but once it gets going it moves.
Have been babying the gears a bit while I get used to not changing under load, but getting the hang of it now.
Had a little trouble at the weekend with ebb shifting and detensioning the belt, but the Lbs fixed that fairly handy and has been solid since then.
42 tyres no problem, roll really well. I even think the saddle is fine.
So all good so far

droidus · 20-02-2019 11:55pm

Glad its working out for you. I find the race fast out of the lights, mainly cos Im always in the right gear. Does it have the sliding dropouts?

py · 21-02-2019 12:30pm

droidus wrote: »

All or nothing afaik.

So did some searching and seems they're interchangeable: https://www.gatescarbondrive.com/~/media/cds/oemfactoryfiles/gates-taichung-product-presentation.pdf?la=en

Gandorf · 21-02-2019 10:19pm

py wrote: »

So did some searching and seems they're interchangeable: https://www.gatescarbondrive.com/~/media/cds/oemfactoryfiles/gates-taichung-product-presentation.pdf?la=en

This might be of interest: https://willem.com/blog/2018-02-24_creating-the-ultimate-commuter-bike/#continue

Gandorf · 21-02-2019 10:20pm

droidus wrote: »

Glad its working out for you. I find the race fast out of the lights, mainly cos Im always in the right gear. Does it have the sliding dropouts?

Nope no sliding dropouts, the hydes and the editor use eccentric bottom brackets now.

droidus · 24-02-2019 12:06am

droidus wrote: »

Yeah, its a pricey upgrade, probably about €250, but Ive done about 5000 miles so far and I do worry about the long term resilience of CDN, plus I could really use a change in gear ratio at the top.

Well, it appears my concerns were justified. The belt snapped on me last Thursday on the commute. It had been skipping a little bit and I was literally on my way to get it retensioned when it happened. There is damage to one of the teeth on the rear cog as well.

There's just under 6000 miles on the bike, and I suspect that may not be too far off the normal lifespan for the belt, or perhaps I was unlucky.

Ive applied for replacements under the 2 year warranty from Gates (the form is here btw, its impossible to find using google: https://ww2.gatescarbondrive.com/warranty), but I think Im gonna go for the full upgrade in the next couple of months anyway.

So, for anyone with a Belt drive Cube, here are the options. It gets complicated - I had some help from the nice people in Humphries.

The distance between the centre bolts of the front and rear sprockets is 420mm and there is about 10mm play in the sliding dropout - so your limited by that. You can only get the CDX rear sprocket for Alfine 8 in 22 or 24 teeth, so that's another limit. Here are the factory specs for the Hyde Race:

Gear ratio

Front sprocket

Rear Sprocket

Belt Teeth

Length
2.091

46

22

111

421.40mm

You can get more or less the exact same setup for CDX, but I spin out a bit so I want higher gears which means a smaller back or larger front sprocket, or both. So using the gates calculator (https://www.gatescarbondrive.com/Apps/DriveCalculator/index.html) I get these options:

Gear ratio

Front sprocket

Rear Sprocket

Belt Teeth

Length
2.273

50

22

113

420.64
2.864

63

22

120

420.10

I cant see myself pushing a 63 tooth front sprocket with an approx 27% increase, so I guess It'll have to be 2.091 >> 2.273, which is about an 8% increase, probably about the same as my old Cannondale Alfine.

Parts can found here: https://shop.carbondrive.net/ The damage is about €260 before postage and labour. I havent confirmed yet, but I think for the Hyde Race you need the CDX Shimano / Sram Surefit for the rear sprocket and the CDX 5-Bolt 130 BCD for the front.

Gandorf · 24-02-2019 9:53pm

droidus wrote: »

Well, it appears my concerns were justified. The belt snapped on me last Thursday on the commute. It had been skipping a little bit and I was literally on my way to get it retensioned when it happened. There is damage to one of the teeth on the rear cog as well.

There's just under 6000 miles on the bike, and I suspect that may not be too far off the normal lifespan for the belt, or perhaps I was unlucky.

Ouch, I'm happy I went for the CDX from the start. I'm hoping for > 6000 miles on the CDX given the cost for a new belt, however It's difficult to determine exactly how much more resilient CDX is over CDN.

Will be interested to hear your comparison between the two when you get the new kit.

droidus · 25-02-2019 12:40pm

CDX should last a lot longer. I was weighing up potential problems with the Alfine 11 hub vs potential problems with CDN, and I knew the Alfine 8 well and the latter is cheaper to fix, so...

Gates are claiming that this isn't a material defect. I sense trouble ahead.

droidus · 27-02-2019 12:34pm

Well, I got the new parts for free out of 'goodwill'. Apparently my front sprocket is 4ml out of alignment, or Ive been 'driving' it too hard, or I do too many miles, or maybe Ive been 'trekking'. They did say that my 30km a day commute would be more suited to CDX.

On gear ratios - Ive been back on my old cannondale alfine this week, which I'd say has at least a 15% harder gear at the top end, the Hyde race basically stops at 6th gear in comparison, so i think Im gonna try for an 18% increase with a 55 ring on the front at a 116.5mm length. Im waiting on Cube to advise me if that is within tolerance for the bike.

droidus · 06-03-2019 12:53pm

Good news. The package went straight from my house to the bike shop without me seeing it, so when I collected the bike yesterday I was pleasantly surprised to find that the nice people at gates had sent me these:

A CDX belt and rear sprocket! I'd mentioned I wanted to upgrade to them but cost was prohibitive, so they clearly took pity.

Py - as a result I may have a 111T CDX belt going at a discount in the coming months if/when I upgrade the front ring if you're interested...

py · 06-03-2019 12:59pm

Looks good! I replaced the broken/chipped CDN sprocket and installed a CDX sprocket. Replacement of the sprocket wasn't all that difficult. Whenever the new CDN belt is worn down I'll look at a CDX belt for replacing it and eventually look at the CDX crankset.

droidus · 06-03-2019 1:30pm

You won't need the full crankset - just the front ring. Ill ping you when I upgrade anyway as Ill have to replace the belt.

Gandorf · 06-03-2019 3:44pm

droidus wrote: »

A CDX belt and rear sprocket! I'd mentioned I wanted to upgrade to them but cost was prohibitive, so they clearly took pity.

Nice! That is great customer service. Makes me feel a lot happier that there is backup if something should go wrong with the belt drive.

Bluefoam · 28-04-2019 10:10am

Been doing some work on my Nexus 8 bike recently. Hub is still in great nick 10 years later... But after visiting a few bike shops the lack of hub geared bikes is noticeable...

Are they out of fashion? Have they proven to be unreliable? Too expensive?

Have to say, I love my yoke! Wouldn't go touring on it, but it's a great urban bike and no trouble...

Rechuchote · 28-04-2019 10:43am

I like the look of the Veloretti bikes - https://www.veloretti.com/ (but then I'm a woman, and slightly larger than the average leprechaun, and their smallest model is just 2cm too big for me); they weigh only 13kg, which is wonderful for a sit-up-and-beg bike, they are under €380 (or a bit more if you add a back carrier) and they'll ship them anywhere in Europe for €20. I'd add a front brake myself, though, preferring the belt-and-braces approach where braking is concerned. They have step-back brakes as standard.

Bluefoam · 28-04-2019 11:18am

Rechuchote wrote: »

I like the look of the Veloretti bikes - https://www.veloretti.com/ (but then I'm a woman, and slightly larger than the average leprechaun, and their smallest model is just 2cm too big for me); they weigh only 13kg, which is wonderful for a sit-up-and-beg bike, they are under €380 (or a bit more if you add a back carrier) and they'll ship them anywhere in Europe for €20. I'd add a front brake myself, though, preferring the belt-and-braces approach where braking is concerned. They have step-back brakes as standad.

They look great. Just to highlight, the €380 is for a single speed (no gears). For a geared bike it's closer to €470 & you get three gears, which is good if you cycle around a relatively flat city. I have 8 gears in a suburban not hilly but not flat environment and it's just about right. In the future I'll consider a move to 11 speed... But then, I'm very unfit.

tomasrojo · 28-04-2019 12:01pm

You legally *would* have to add a second brake. The Dutch Bike Shop do that for their imports, as far as I know. The law here says that it's not a fixie, you need two brakes, and if it's a fixie, you need one proper brake (basically treats stopping the turning pedals as a sort-of brake).

tomasrojo · 28-04-2019 12:04pm

I think people just think of hub-gear bikes as expensive or slow and heavy. Hub gears are great though. I'd slightly favour them for urban bikes. The only problem, maybe, is for some of them getting a puncture means an involved process of removing the rear wheel, or else patching in situ. I find the latter is fine though, but for a lot of people with, for example, Bromptons, a puncture means a trip to the bike shop, while with a derailleur they're ok with changing the tube, or someone at home will change the tube for them.

CantGetNoSleep · 28-04-2019 12:57pm

I also think the increase in 1x gearing doesn't help hub gears. I was recently looking for one but found an 11 speed Canyon Urban 1x for much cheaper than I could find an equivalent hub geared bike. I really don't see the point of a front derailleur even in a hilly city, awkward both in terms of maintenance/cleaning and actually using

tomasrojo · 28-04-2019 1:07pm

I think the big advantage, apart from you might prefer the look of a bike without a derailleur, is how easy the gears are to tune, and, if you have a chain case, how little maintenance they need, even if it's raining a lot.

But in my case, I ended up with two bikes with hub gears because they were the easiest or cheapest option for me at the time: Brompton 3-speed, and bakfiets. The bakfiets seemed to be the cheapest cargo bike that was still reckoned to be very good that I could get locally. So I didn't go out of my way to opt for hub gears, but I really like them now.

tomasrojo · 28-04-2019 1:08pm

(I wasn't aware of the 1x trend. Looks interesting.)

Bluefoam · 28-04-2019 3:00pm

Any recommendations for a good not so expensive mechanic to do a service in South Dublin or city centre... I've been away for a while, so not familiar with what's going on... & there's some small stuff beyond my comfort zone...

beauf · 28-04-2019 3:10pm

The issue with hub gears is finding someone to service them. But they are great in needing less cleaning.

I hate having to clean and tweak regular gears.

Bluefoam · 28-04-2019 3:21pm

Bluefoam wrote: »

Any recommendations for a good not so expensive mechanic to do a service in South Dublin or city centre... I've been away for a while, so not familiar with what's going on... & there's some small stuff beyond my comfort zone...

Might take it to Dublin loves bikes in Dun Laoighre... They seem to be into what they do.

tomasrojo · 28-04-2019 5:14pm

Bluefoam wrote: »

Any recommendations for a good not so expensive mechanic to do a service in South Dublin or city centre... I've been away for a while, so not familiar with what's going on... & there's some small stuff beyond my comfort zone...

Dara in Bee Cycles on the South Circular Road can service hub gears.

py · 28-04-2019 5:17pm

tomasrojo wrote: »

Dara in Bee Cycles on the South Circular Road can service hub gears.

Had hub wheel rebuilt a while back by him, running well since, can recommend.

Bluefoam · 11-05-2019 9:14am

10 years old, just back from a service. Still in perfect condition... Can't fault it. I don't understand why hub gears aren't more popular...

Hub gear bike dilemma

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