Public servants' inability to afford to pay rent in Dublin.

political analyst · 27-11-2018 10:26pm #1

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/where-have-all-our-young-teachers-gone-36666467.html

It is one of the great failures of Government policy that people like teachers, gardaí, nurses, doctors, firemen and on and on cannot afford to buy a house or apartment and live in Ireland, most especially in Dublin. Young teachers could not even afford to rent in Dublin. So the only avenue open is to go abroad, save hard and hope to get a deposit, the only downside being that the price of houses continues to escalate while they are away.

Due to the high rents in Dublin and other cities, why doesn't the government pay special allowances so that public-sector workers can afford to live in those place in order to fill vacancies for especially important jobs in those areas? Isn't that what already happens in Britain?

Teaching is a clear example of a profession in which job vacancies in cities cannot be filled because of high rents.

enricoh · 27-11-2018 10:31pm

Should be i reckon 20% extra for living n working in Dublin. Freeze all increments to pay for it.

limnam · 27-11-2018 10:35pm

political analyst wrote: »

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/where-have-all-our-young-teachers-gone-36666467.html

Due to the high rents in Dublin and other cities, why doesn't the government pay special allowances so that public-sector workers can afford to live in those place in order to fill vacancies for especially important jobs in those areas? Isn't that what already happens in Britain?

Teaching is a clear example of a profession in which job vacancies in cities cannot be filled because of high rents.

This a windup?

One of the highest paid public sector work forces in the oecd and they should be given rent allowance?

They should be just delighted we haven't started reverse bench marking.

The Tetrarch · 27-11-2018 10:35pm

What I get from that article is young teachers go to Dubai to earn big money, and their job is still available to them when they return.

BBFAN · 27-11-2018 10:37pm

The largest group of "accidental" landlords in this country are guards.

I call bull**** on any claim that they are not paid enough. Same for teachers. They get all summer off and can take second jobs.

kippy · 27-11-2018 10:38pm

limnam wrote: »

This a windup?

One of the highest paid public sector work forces in the oecd and they should be given rent allowance?

They should be just delighted we haven't started reverse bench marking.

Not sure what bearing 'one of the highest paid public sector work forces in the OECD' has got to do with this particular issue?
If anything it shows how desperately bad starting net pay for public sector workers is and/or the exorbitant cost of living for everyone in Dublin is.

The Rape of Lucretia · 27-11-2018 10:38pm

political analyst wrote: »

Due to the high rents in Dublin and other cities, why doesn't the government pay special allowances so that public-sector workers can afford to live in those place in order to fill vacancies for especially important jobs in those areas? Isn't that what already happens in Britain?

Teaching is a clear example of a profession in which job vacancies in cities cannot be filled because of high rents.

enricoh wrote: »

Should be i reckon 20% extra for living n working in Dublin. Freeze all increments to pay for it.

Paying extra doesnt build more houses. Would be just pouring away money for nothing.

kippy · 27-11-2018 10:39pm

The Rape of Lucretia wrote: »

Paying extra doesnt build more houses. Would be just pouring away money for nothing.

Agree here. The issue is related to the ridiculous living costs in the city. Paying people more generally drives these costs up.

political analyst · 27-11-2018 10:40pm

limnam wrote: »

This a windup?

One of the highest paid public sector work forces in the oecd and they should be given rent allowance?

They should be just delighted we haven't started reverse bench marking.

But the housing crisis is being blamed for the teacher shortage in Dublin, according to the following article from last year.

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/education/teacher-shortage-in-capital-blamed-on-housing-crisis-36247775.html

limnam · 27-11-2018 10:41pm

BBFAN wrote: »

The largest group of "accidental" landlords in this country are guards.

I call bull**** on any claim that they are not paid enough. Same for teachers. They get all summer off and can take second jobs.

Getting paid by the tax payer then off in Spain pulling in a second tax free salary before they come back here whining about having to correct a few papers that they pull another salary from!

License to print money.

limnam · 27-11-2018 10:42pm

political analyst wrote: »

But the housing crisis is being blamed for the teacher shortage in Dublin, according to the following article from last year.

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/education/teacher-shortage-in-capital-blamed-on-housing-crisis-36247775.html

Why is the teachers forum on board always full of teachers not able to find work?

political analyst · 27-11-2018 10:43pm

kippy wrote: »

Agree here. The issue is related to the ridiculous living costs in the city. Paying people more generally drives these costs up.

If I remember correctly, I read somewhere that paying special allowances to public-sector workers in cities is what happens in Britain.

The INMO had an unsuccessful strike in 2007 in which one of its demands was a special allowance for nurses in Dublin.

kippy · 27-11-2018 10:47pm

political analyst wrote: »

If I remember correctly, I read somewhere that paying special allowances to public-sector workers in cities is what happens in Britain.

The INMO had an unsuccessful strike in 2007 in which one of its demands was a special allowance for nurses in Dublin.

British PS workers earn significantly less than here starting out and London is a far more expensive city to live in comparatively speaking......

27-11-2018 10:48pm

political analyst wrote: »

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/where-have-all-our-young-teachers-gone-36666467.html

Due to the high rents in Dublin and other cities, why doesn't the government pay special allowances so that public-sector workers can afford to live in those place in order to fill vacancies for especially important jobs in those areas? Isn't that what already happens in Britain?

Teaching is a clear example of a profession in which job vacancies in cities cannot be filled because of high rents.

Cry me a river, private sector workers are afforded fewer protections and prone to wage cuts. And the holidays are nowhere near as generous.

limnam · 27-11-2018 10:51pm

From march last year.

Davy stockbrokers have today released a report on public sector pay in Ireland.
The report has found that average public sector wages are €47,400 in Ireland, 40% higher than in the private sector

I don't know how they survive.

The Rape of Lucretia · 27-11-2018 10:51pm

The article doesnt specify who it wants to price out of living in Dublin by giving public servants an advantage (paid by those being priced out of course) over them. Talk about a lose-lose for everyone else.

BBFAN · 27-11-2018 10:53pm

kippy wrote: »

British PS workers earn significantly less than here starting out and London is a far more expensive city to live in comparatively speaking......

That is true, but it's also true that they are paid more in major cities in the UK where PS workers here are paid the same whether they live in the middle of Dublin or somewhere in the midlands.

There is a certain logic to paying a premium for cities.

amcalester · 27-11-2018 10:54pm

Why not reduce the pay of those living outside of Dublin?

BBFAN · 27-11-2018 10:56pm

Deleted User wrote: »

Cry me a river, private sector workers are afforded fewer protections and prone to wage cuts. And the holidays are nowhere near as generous.

Not to mention the "sick days" that are taken as holidays.

Vic_08 · 27-11-2018 11:35pm

Thread turned into another public v private whinefest, how original.

dotsman · 27-11-2018 11:42pm

Don't worry. Sinn Fein and friends (the reason we have a property crisis) are to the rescue - https://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/dublin-city-council-set-to-allow-families-build-log-cabins-in-back-gardens-888117.html

Xenji · 27-11-2018 11:42pm

limnam wrote: »

From march last year.

Davy stockbrokers have today released a report on public sector pay in Ireland.
The report has found that average public sector wages are €47,400 in Ireland, 40% higher than in the private sector

I don't know how they survive.

Yeah with a starting salary of less than 25k good luck with backing up those figures in the last 10 years for new entrants.

riemann · 27-11-2018 11:45pm

Giving teachers/guards/nurses extra cash is a great way to alievate the housing shortage.

Is what landlords will say.

political analyst · 27-11-2018 11:48pm

Deleted User wrote: »

Cry me a river, private sector workers are afforded fewer protections and prone to wage cuts. And the holidays are nowhere near as generous.

You wouldn't be saying that if you had a child who can't get a comprehensive education because of teacher shortages or you couldn't get the necessary medical treatment because of a shortage of health workers!

backspin. · 27-11-2018 11:51pm

The best solution is an across the board payrise for public servants of 10%

political analyst · 27-11-2018 11:53pm

The Rape of Lucretia wrote: »

The article doesnt specify who it wants to price out of living in Dublin by giving public servants an advantage (paid by those being priced out of course) over them. Talk about a lose-lose for everyone else.

Do you not think that paying public sector workers more is justified in order to uphold the constitutional rights to life (i.e. saving of lives by health workers and protection of lives by gardaí and soldiers) and education (i.e. teachers)?

The Constitution permits infringement on some rights for the greater good, i.e. property rights with regard to compulsory purchase orders to make way for motorways.

ligerdub · 27-11-2018 11:59pm

political analyst wrote:

Do you not think that paying public sector workers more is justified in order to uphold the constitutional rights to life (i.e. saving of lives by health workers and protection of lives by gardaÃ and soldiers) and education (i.e. teachers)?

What about everyone else who works but can't do it? Is it just the teachers you want to protect?

I think you should declare a vested interest here if it applies.

political analyst · 28-11-2018 12:06am

ligerdub wrote: »

What about everyone else who works but can't do it? Is it just the teachers you want to protect?

I think you should declare a vested interest here if it applies.

It doesn't.

28-11-2018 12:06am

Bloody hell, 2018 is definitely the year when After Hours became Angry Hours. Social welfare recipients, travellers, OAPs getting free public transport access etc. I'm actually surprised it took until nearly the end of the year for a lightning rod to appear to focus attacks on that old reliable, the public servant.....

political analyst · 28-11-2018 12:07am

Deleted User wrote: »

Bloody hell, 2018 is definitely the year when After Hours became Angry Hours. Social welfare recipients, travellers, OAPs getting free public transport access etc. I'm actually surprised it took until nearly the end of the year for a lightning rod to appear to focus attacks on that old reliable, the public servant.....

Isn't that what After Hours is for?

28-11-2018 12:16am

political analyst wrote: »

Isn't that what After Hours is for?

Wasn't it a sub department of the Ministry of Fun years ago? Can't remember the last time I genuinely laughed me b*ll*cks off reading a thread in here tbh.

end of the road · 28-11-2018 12:25am

Deleted User wrote: »

Cry me a river, private sector workers are afforded fewer protections and prone to wage cuts. And the holidays are nowhere near as generous.

that's not the fault of the public sector workers though. it also doesn't mean the issue of the huge cost of living in the cities shouldn't be addressed, especially when it is causing shortages for critical jobs. ultimately the private sector workers need to be fighting for better terms.

amcalester wrote: »

Why not reduce the pay of those living outside of Dublin?

because it would probably be a form of discrimination at worst case and it would definitely be unfair at best. if someone is paid less then another, it should be based on the normal factors used to judge pay such as time served in the job etc, not where they happen to live. it is right fair and just that for example, a teacher of 10 years experience, earns the same whether they live inside or outside dublin.

BBFAN · 28-11-2018 12:32am

Here we go.

28-11-2018 12:37am

BBFAN wrote: »

Here we go.

Only once? Are football chants being shortened as well in the cause of profitability.....?

uck51js9zml2yt · 28-11-2018 12:44am

We might as well blame travellers for people becoming teachers, nurses etc. !!

Btw...teachers on leave from their jobs don't get paid while not working. But let's not allow facts get in the way.

28-11-2018 12:46am

limnam wrote: »

From march last year.

Davy stockbrokers have today released a report on public sector pay in Ireland.
The report has found that average public sector wages are €47,400 in Ireland, 40% higher than in the private sector

I don't know how they survive.

A meaningless stat considering public sector workers have a very high proportion of highly skilled jobs compared to the private sector so you would naturally expect a higher average salary.

Also teaches, nurses and guards etc are very underpaid for the jobs they do in any part of the country never mind Dublin.

Effects · 28-11-2018 12:50am

Ronin Salty Hotel wrote: »

Btw...teachers on leave from their jobs don't get paid while not working. But let's not allow facts get in the way.

Who said they did?

YFlyer · 28-11-2018 12:51am

enricoh wrote: »

Should be i reckon 20% extra for living n working in Dublin. Freeze all increments to pay for it.

Are you a landlord in Dublin?

mammajamma · 28-11-2018 12:51am

A friends younger sister started in the public service last year, she's getting a smidgeon over minimum wage yet living/renting in Dublin. Don't know how she does it.

I think a lot of people are getting confused with a 50 year public servant who has all the hefty increments and bonuses already built up, versus someone who's trying to get their life off the ground.

Yet another 2 tier system.

uck51js9zml2yt · 28-11-2018 12:51am

limnam wrote: »

From march last year.

Davy stockbrokers have today released a report on public sector pay in Ireland.
The report has found that average public sector wages are €47,400 in Ireland, 40% higher than in the private sector

I don't know how they survive.

Very few in my office on 47k. Most are cobsiderably under 30,k but it's s headline.... it must be true

limnam · 28-11-2018 12:56am

mammajamma wrote: »

A friends younger sister started in the public service last year, she's getting a smidgeon over minimum wage yet living/renting in Dublin. Don't know how she does it.

I think a lot of people are getting confused with a 50 year public servant who has all the hefty increments and bonuses already built up, versus someone who's trying to get their life off the ground.

Yet another 2 tier system.

Christ.

She's young. She can share. Get a room in a house for 280e a month.

That leaves her with over 1300e a month with shared bills.

God forbid we're ever in a_real_ crisis.

Ursus Horribilis · 28-11-2018 12:57am

Averaging out salaries doesn't work either because it's bound to be distorted by the high earners in the top grades and the ones who've moved up through the ranks. The newer people got shafted when the likes of Croke Park and Haddington Road were being negotiated.

limnam · 28-11-2018 12:57am

Ronin Salty Hotel wrote: »

Very few in my office on 47k. Most are cobsiderably under 30,k but it's s headline.... it must be true

I'm not sure they focused on just your office pal.

It was y'know. The whole of the public sector.

Ash.J.Williams · 28-11-2018 1:00am

limnam wrote: »

This a windup?

One of the highest paid public sector work forces in the oecd and they should be given rent allowance?

They should be just delighted we haven't started reverse bench marking.

It's laughable..
If it's so bad for public servants then imagine what it's like for everyone else

limnam · 28-11-2018 1:01am

Ursus Horribilis wrote: »

Averaging out salaries doesn't work either because it's bound to be distorted by the high earners in the top grades and the ones who've moved up through the ranks. The newer people got shafted when the likes of Croke Park and Haddington Road were being negotiated.

No one was "shafted" Their employer was bankrupt. Financially embarrassed. They were been paid too much anyway.

mammajamma · 28-11-2018 1:23am

limnam wrote: »

Christ.

She's young. She can share. Get a room in a house for 280e a month.

That leaves her with over 1300e a month with shared bills.

God forbid we're ever in a_real_ crisis.

280 a month! I know people paying 850 a month for a bog standard room in a bog standard house in rathmines. Maybe she can walk from kildare every day as a commute. Or does car ownership come with an equal reduction in your world?

Yeah, she should share a bed with someone for the next decade and be happy about it. That's life now.

28-11-2018 2:06am

mammajamma wrote: »

280 a month! I know people paying 850 a month for a bog standard room in a bog standard house in rathmines. Maybe she can walk from kildare every day as a commute. Or does car ownership come with an equal reduction in your world?

Yeah, she should share a bed with someone for the next decade and be happy about it. That's life now.

Yep, classic vested interests gobsh*teology: "there's someone always worse off than you, be happy with what you've got".

This sketch has always had a whiff of truth about it........

raze_them_all_ · 28-11-2018 2:25am

I am paying 950 a month excluding bills for half an apartment.

28-11-2018 2:35am

limnam wrote: »

This a windup?

One of the highest paid public sector work forces in the oecd and they should be given rent allowance?

They should be just delighted we haven't started reverse bench marking.

I guarantee in my job as a hospital pharmacist, I make a lot more difference financially to the HSE than I am paid. The difference I make to patients lives is generally immeasurable. Ive worked my arse off to get to where I am today so apologies if you feel I'm too highly paid.

28-11-2018 2:44am

Deleted User wrote: »

I guarantee in my job as a hospital pharmacist, I make a lot more difference financially to the HSE than I am paid. The difference I make to patients lives is generally immeasurable. Ive worked my arse off to get to where I am today so apologies if you feel I'm too highly paid.

I wouldn't apologize at all if I were you. The 'anger' generated by begrudgery, resentment and downright jealousy at another's perceived better circumstances than their own is a widespread trait in this country.

TerrorFirmer · 28-11-2018 7:54am

limnam wrote: »

Christ.

She's young. She can share. Get a room in a house for 280e a month.

That leaves her with over 1300e a month with shared bills.

God forbid we're ever in a_real_ crisis.

Where, Donegal? Be one hell of a commute.

Public servants' inability to afford to pay rent in Dublin.

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