Hap Accepted - Landlords

Topdolla · 25-01-2018 3:27pm

amcalester wrote: »

Whatever about the shortage of housing stock I’m not sure the state should supplement your lifestyle choice.

It is there fault that there is a shortage of housing, look at the homeless crisis, this is because the government failed to act accordingly and build the houses needed to house these families.

Also in regards to the HAP inspection, the standards for this inspection are set out in the Housing (Standards for Rented Houses) Regulations 2017.

Which all Landlords should adhere to.

amcalester · 25-01-2018 3:29pm

Topdolla wrote: »

It is there fault that there is a shortage of housing, look at the homeless crisis, this is because the government failed to act accordingly and build the houses needed to house these families.

Also in regards to the HAP inspection, the standards for this inspection are set out in the Housing (Standards for Rented Houses) Regulations 2017.

Which all Landlords should adhere to.

HAP inspections have been known to go beyond those standards.

Still no reason for the state to subsidize your lifestyle choice.

draiochtanois · 25-01-2018 3:31pm

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Topdolla · 25-01-2018 3:36pm

draiochtanois wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

Sorry how do you raise a family in a single bedroom apartment?

zell12 · 25-01-2018 3:36pm

All landlords accept HAP and comply with minimum housing standards.
If they do not they're breaking the law

Topdolla · 25-01-2018 3:38pm

zell12 wrote: »

All landlords accept HAP and comply with minimum housing standards.
If they do not they're breaking the law

Well most landlords in this country are breaking the law then.

Samuel T. Cogley · 25-01-2018 3:38pm

zell12 wrote: »

All landlords accept HAP and comply with minimum housing standards.
If they do not they're breaking the law

I do neither.

Some of the minimum standards are simply not practical and I'm buggered if I'm going to accept HAP while it's administered as it currently is. If anyone (except Topdolla) asks it's because I didn't like the shirt he was wearing.

draiochtanois · 25-01-2018 3:41pm

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Stheno · 25-01-2018 3:51pm

I just looked up the hap limits and for a single person the highest was Dublin but it was 660 per month, not sure where the op is getting their 900 plus figure

And you can qualify for hap earning up to 35k net in Dublin so about 42k gross

Topdolla · 25-01-2018 3:53pm

draiochtanois wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

Im sure people do this all over the world based on the need to, but should a family be raised in a single bed-roomed household?

Topdolla · 25-01-2018 3:54pm

Stheno wrote: »

I just looked up the hap limits and for a single person the highest was Dublin but it was 660 per month, not sure where the op is getting their 900 plus figure

And you can qualify for hap earning up to 35k

They are the old rates, and I got that figure directly from the council.

25-01-2018 3:59pm

Topdolla wrote: »

It is there fault that there is a shortage of housing, look at the homeless crisis, this is because the government failed to act accordingly and build the houses needed to house these families.

Also in regards to the HAP inspection, the standards for this inspection are set out in the Housing (Standards for Rented Houses) Regulations 2017.

Which all Landlords should adhere to.

Renting alone is always going to be expensive, it always has been.

Most people who work have to share for a few years at the very least and I see no reason why the government should be paying to house people living alone. Why should you have the government paying for your apartment while thousands more people have to pay for their own place in a house share?

The_Conductor · 25-01-2018 4:00pm

Topdolla wrote: »

Sorry how do you raise a family in a single bedroom apartment?

According to the last census- there are over 28,200 owner occupied apartments and other dwellings- with a single bedroom, where children under the age of 12 are living. The fact that they're owner occupied- means the parents aren't necessarily entitled to anything at all- yet, somehow, they manage.

Topdolla · 25-01-2018 4:06pm

The_Conductor wrote: »

According to the last census- there are over 28,200 owner occupied apartments and other dwellings- with a single bedroom, where children under the age of 12 are living. The fact that they're owner occupied- means the parents aren't necessarily entitled to anything at all- yet, somehow, they manage.

I see you are also the mod of the adoption forum so let me ask this, If you wanted to adopt a child in this state would that be allowed if you had no bedroom for the child? Or if you said ah the kid can have the room we have a sofa bed.

rawn · 25-01-2018 4:08pm

Topdolla wrote: »

draiochtanois wrote: »

All over Europe that's how it's done

Parents sleep on a couch bed in the living room and the children in a bedroom.

Irish people have notions.

Im sure people do this all over the world based on the need to, but should a family be raised in a single bed-roomed household?

Better a one - bed than a hotel room.

The_Conductor · 25-01-2018 4:54pm

Topdolla wrote: »

I see you are also the mod of the adoption forum so let me ask this, If you wanted to adopt a child in this state would that be allowed if you had no bedroom for the child? Or if you said ah the kid can have the room we have a sofa bed.

No- your application would end up in a dusty filing cabinet somewhere, never to see the light of day ever again.........

It would be considered to be inappropriate living accommodation not fit/suited to bringing up children.......... Yet- parents of natural children- who through no fault of their own only have a single bedroomed dwelling- somehow manage- and aren't breaking any rules.........

In short- your rights as a local authority or social welfare tenant with children- vastly exceed your non-existent rights- as someone who fends for themselves..........

Look at that lady down in Clare who admitted to a judge last week that her social welfare entitlements were in excess of the net pay a person on 120k per annum takes home..........

That lady nets 55k in social welfare entitlements- and has one of Clare Co. Co.'s few 6 bed houses. She has 4 children of her own- and is court appointed guardian of another 2 kids. She could not bring up any of those children on her own steam.

HAP is all well and good- and is a great safety net for those who need it most. However, there has to be some cognisance of who the worse off in society are- and I firmly believe the family who are somehow coping on their own steam but are living in inappropriate accommodation- are at least as deserving as anyone else- however, there isn't a magic money tree- contrary to what some people must believe- we have to draw a line somewhere- that line quite simply doesn't exist at the moment- and the perception is you'd be nuts to try and support yourself.

the_syco · 25-01-2018 8:31pm

Topdolla wrote: »

I have been looking for over a year to try and find a landlord to accept the HAP scheme, the minute I mention HAP in an email on daft I know that Im not getting another reply.

Not being able to say no to HAP means those with HAP have to waste a lot more of their own time ringing around, as those that don't accept HAP will jut find another excuse.

amcalester wrote: »

HAP is paid directly to the landlord.

Tenant pays percent to CC, CC pays HAP to LL. If tenant doesn't pay percent, LL gets nothing.

Topdolla wrote: »

I have been told by landlords no I don't want to deal with HAP, should I try get them prosecuted? Or would they even really be if I tried?

If they said that they do support it, got your hopes up, went through the process of filling in the forms leaving out enough info so that they're not eligible to rent their house to you (all this taking weeks), and suddenly you're homeless as you no longer have a place to live; would this be better?

island_visitor wrote: »

if the tenant stops paying the council , the council suspend paying the landlord

either way the unreliability of HAP tenants is based on this perception

The state has effed up in the past, and not paid the all the LL's a months HAP. The LL doesn't see that missing months HAP.

island_visitor wrote: »

is he or she sure of receiving the agreed rent even the tenant starts messing around and not paying the local authority ?

AFAIK, the LL then won't get paid, and it's the LL's issue, not the CC.

Topdolla wrote: »

I should be allowed have that.

If you want your own place, pay for it. Otherwise you're freeloading on a system designed for people with nothing.

Topdolla wrote: »

It is there fault that there is a shortage of housing, look at the homeless crisis, this is because the government failed to act accordingly and build the houses needed to house these families.

The government has never built houses.

Topdolla wrote: »

Which all Landlords should adhere to.

Why?

GGTrek · 25-01-2018 10:00pm

Topdolla wrote: »

draiochtanois wrote: »

All over Europe that's how it's done

Parents sleep on a couch bed in the living room and the children in a bedroom.

Irish people have notions.

Im sure people do this all over the world based on the need to, but should a family be raised in a single bed-roomed household?

I agree with you on this one. A couple with a child should not live in a one bedroom apartment: it is not healthy for the child and for the parents. However with the current housing crisis two adults can perfectly share a one bedroom apartment, probably not ideal for non-couples, but definitely a waste of tax money to supporta a single person in a one bedroom apartment without sharing when the state could provide the same apartment to accommodate two people.

Caranica · 25-01-2018 10:44pm

In the current market, demand far exceeds supply. Landlords have to choose between multiple self-finanacing tenants which is tough, HAP tenants would come way down the list of ideal tenants for all the reasons already cited on this thread.

As to why you pick one over the other "I thought tenant A was a perfect fit for this property", sorry potential tenants B-Z.

No discrimination, though your actual reasons may be that B had kids, C smells, D doesn't have a permanent job, E's social media shows they like late night parties, F needs HAP.

There's always a reason you pick one tenant over another. A blanket response, A is best, no need to explain to the rest why they didn't get it. Ergo no evidence of discrimination.

Former landlord, wouldn't encourage my worst enemy to get into the game.

circular flexing · 25-01-2018 10:54pm

Samuel T. Cogley wrote: »

This is, yet again, a system that is easily fixed. The LA take over the property, ideally unfurnished at 80% of market rate and everyone goes through one system of social housing. The LA collect rent towards it's costs and deals with it's own messers. Of course we'll never see it done as fecking over LL's is probably saving a few million a year.

This already exists in some areas

e.g. http://fingalcoco.ie/housing/rental-accomodation-scheme/

circular flexing · 25-01-2018 10:58pm

I've had HAP tenants since September 2016 and only had one issue where rent was paid slightly late. Aside from that, there's been no issues. The rent is slightly below market rate but the tenants are stable and I've had 100% occupancy (and will for the forseeable future) which is a big advantage.

There is a risk in going to open market that you will end up with times where there's no occupants. HAP has worked out pretty well for me so far.

Nomis21 · 26-01-2018 10:26am

spaceHopper wrote: »

I wouldn't want to deal with HAP at all,
They inspect the house and could demand changes, why take the risk of letting a tenant in only for it to get messy. If the property was pre approved for HAP maybe, it would depend on the tennant. I'd have zero tolerence for bull sh1t paper work too.

I am a tenant of 7 years who was moved onto HAP from RA. Now after 2 years on HAP the council have inspected the property and are demanding 10K Euro of repairs be made to the property within 6 months or payment will stop. My Landlord says he does not have the money for these repairs and I am happy to live in the property as it is.

The Landlord doesn't care. In this rental climate he can easily find a cash tenant and not gave to worry about inspections of the property and probably get more rent as well.

So HAP might have the effect of making me homeless. The Council never told me that might happen when I signed up for HAP.

amcalester · 26-01-2018 10:29am

Nomis21 wrote: »

I am a tenant of 7 years who was moved onto HAP from RA. Now after 2 years on HAP the council have inspected the property and are demanding 10K Euro of repairs be made to the property within 6 months or payment will stop. My Landlord says he does not have the money for these repairs and I am happy to live in the property as it is.

The Landlord doesn't care. In this rental climate he can easily find a cash tenant and not gave to worry about inspections of the property and probably get more rent as well.

So HAP might have the effect of making me homeless. The Council never told me that might happen when I signed up for HAP.

Out of curiosity what are the repairs that need to be made?

Do they go over and above the minimum standards as set out here?

Ashbx · 26-01-2018 10:54am

Topdolla wrote: »

Good argument, I have rented in shared accommodation in the past and its like a lucky bag, you don't know who or what you are going to be living with.

I like my privacy and if I could afford to rent my own place with cash I would, but unfortunately the lack of housing in this country is a disgrace and working as hard as I do I should be allowed have that.

Majority of the people out there work hard....does not mean you are entitled to a house by yourself for that fact alone.

Still a bit surprised someone who has a full time AND part time job is eligible for HAP.

Piper101 · 26-01-2018 11:01am

Samuel T. Cogley wrote: »

This is, yet again, a system that is easily fixed. The LA take over the property, ideally unfurnished at 80% of market rate and everyone goes through one system of social housing. The LA collect rent towards it's costs and deals with it's own messers. Of course we'll never see it done as fecking over LL's is probably saving a few million a year.

I tried to rent a large two bed apartment, (double bedroom) in a nice area to the local authority and was refused as it is a third floor apartment!!! Go figure!

draiochtanois · 26-01-2018 11:09am

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The_Conductor · 26-01-2018 12:01pm

draiochtanois wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

The only reasoned conclusion one can come to- is that the deliberate policy is to remove landlords from the sector?

Michael D Not Higgins · 26-01-2018 12:31pm

The_Conductor wrote: »

The only reasoned conclusion one can come to- is that the deliberate policy is to remove landlords from the sector?

I think Hanlon's razor is applicable here (or a variant of such).

"Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity."

There are other factors such as public perception of policies despite the outcome being the opposite of what they claim, but that is a public knowledge issue. If all your constituents are crying out for rent control, do you implement rent control or try to provide a reasoned explanation that rent control will slowly erode the available stock and in the longer term cost the public more for housing?

Samuel T. Cogley · 26-01-2018 1:59pm

draiochtanois wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

I wish it was profit, if it was I'd dance for joy. It's income taxed at 52%.

dubrov · 26-01-2018 4:23pm

Samuel T. Cogley wrote: »

I wish it was profit, if it was I'd dance for joy. It's income taxed at 52%.

The only expense you can't fully write off is interest and even then 80% can be written off. So tax is levied more or less on profit.

Hap Accepted - Landlords

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