Michael Conlan Pro Debut

Morrison J · 18-03-2017 4:42am

So after watching Conlan headline and sell out the MSG theatre, your biggest takeaway is that Shakur Stevenson will be an even bigger star than him.

Either you're a standard Irish begrudger or just a troll. I'll leave you to it.

snowflaker · 18-03-2017 4:51am

I believe Stevenson to be more of a talent. Am I not entitled to hold that opinion???

Morrison J · 18-03-2017 4:57am

snowflaker wrote: »

I believe Stevenson to be more of a talent. Am I not entitled to hold that opinion???

You are completely entitled to that opinion.

But to make statements implying that being on an Oscar Valdez undercard is more impressive than headlining the theatre at MSG would lead me to believe you're either trolling or you're Shakur's mum.

snowflaker · 18-03-2017 5:03am

Morrison J wrote: »

You are completely entitled to that opinion.

But to make statements implying that being on an Oscar Valdez undercard is more impressive than headlining the theatre at MSG would lead me to believe you're either trolling or you're Shakur's mum.

Your reductive style of writing leads me to believe you read too many tabloids or watch too much sky sports

AMC1991 · 18-03-2017 5:30am

snowflaker wrote: »

I think you are going over the top- it's not literally unheard of- I already cited Khan and I'm sure Joshua sold out too- and they are both UK fighters.

Arum sees a cash cow, he milks it.

Attendance wise, 5,000 in the Theatre is a great start to Conlan's career, especially considering Lomachenko vs Walters was contested in front of 2,000 at the Cosmopolitan.

As for Joshua he fought on the undercard at the O2 on his debut.

trixiebust · 18-03-2017 5:39am

He's a decent fighter at the very least, it was his pro debut, and I'm sure he was nervous going in.

If he produces half the anticipation or excitement that a Bernard Dunne, Steve Collins or a Wayne McCullough did, then we all should be very proud and be behind him all the way.

It was his pro debut ffs.

walshb · 18-03-2017 11:11am

Morrison J wrote: »

A nation of bregrudgers aren't we? Just enjoy it.

Not really. You're just going way OTT with ramming it down people's throats about MCs selling potential. You're even more hyped up about it than he is. Relax, and let the man fight.

ricero · 18-03-2017 11:23am

Happy for conlon but long term i just dont think he has the skills to stay at the top. He gets caught way too much for my liking

Morrison J · 18-03-2017 11:44am

pac_man wrote: »

Just watched the fight and he wasn't all that good, I'm glad he admitted and recognised that himself. It was probably down to nerves.

A couple of Olympians on the undercard, how did they look? Robson Conceicao(Brazilian gold medalist) still wild with his punches?

Conceicao was wild as usual. Slapping with his punches cosistently.

Morrison J · 18-03-2017 11:52am

walshb wrote: »

Not really. You're just going way OTT with ramming it down people's throats about MCs selling potential. You're even more hyped up about it than he is. Relax, and let the man fight.

Just enjoying the fact we finally have the boxer with star potential that we've been waiting for. Is that a crime?

Nothing I've said is out of whack. The only things out of whack are those saying Joshua/Khan debuts were bigger or Shakur Stevenson is going to be fighting in front of 30K.

Those statements are false and built off classic Irish begrudgery tbf.

super_furry · 18-03-2017 11:59am

He'll need to find some discipline with those massive swinging hooks - a better fighter would make him really pay. Still not bad for a debut and you can see his natural talent and speed is definitely there.

snowflaker · 18-03-2017 12:02pm

Morrison J wrote: »

Just enjoying the fact we finally have the boxer with star potential that we've been waiting for. Is that a crime?

Nothing I've said is out of whack. The only things out of whack are those saying Joshua/Khan debuts were bigger or Shakur Stevenson is going to be fighting in front of 30K.

Those statements are false and built off classic Irish begrudgery tbf.

their debuts were. Facts are not begrudgery, Unless you the buy the ott hype your are a begrudger now???

Morrison J · 18-03-2017 12:02pm

He was far too eager coming out and those overhand rights he was missing by a mile with were ugly. Once he stopped looking for the highlight reel KO and worked the body and threw some combinations end of the 2nd he started to look the part more for sure.

Solid but unspectacular performance overall.

Gamebred · 18-03-2017 12:14pm

Absolutely rancid on his pro debut and they are manipulating betting markets for what rounds he finishes in, I got some on with ladbrokes but they havent paid out yet funny enough but this had the mob written all over it 6s into 4/9.

snowflaker · 18-03-2017 12:16pm

Arum then launched an attack on the major sports television broadcasters in the USA. "This was not a major network over here in the USA and it was a complete and utter wasted opportunity for what was a great event," said Arum. "Boxing needs events like this and they failed to see that."

USA not as interested it seems.

super_furry · 18-03-2017 12:22pm

snowflaker wrote: »

Arum then launched an attack on the major sports television broadcasters in the USA. "This was not a major network over here in the USA and it was a complete and utter wasted opportunity for what was a great event," said Arum. "Boxing needs events like this and they failed to see that."

USA not as interested it seems.

Maybe if they had made it more of a St Patrick's Day card and had someone like, oh I don't know, let's say Paddy Barnes fighting on it.....

It was a poxy undercard and some Irish kid on his debut fight headlining it, isn't going to get the Yanks to splash out.

snowflaker · 18-03-2017 12:28pm

super_furry wrote: »

Maybe if they had made it more of a St Patrick's Day card and had someone like, oh I don't know, let's say Paddy Barnes fighting on it.....

It was a poxy undercard and some Irish kid on his debut fight headlining it, isn't going to get the Yanks to splash out.

Exactly, I couldnt understand Arum's annoyance.

walshb · 18-03-2017 12:39pm

Morrison J wrote: »

Just enjoying the fact we finally have the boxer with star potential that we've been waiting for. Is that a crime? .

No. Is a less than OTT enthusiastic view a crime, or begrudgery? Bit of give and take is all that's needed.

Gamebred · 18-03-2017 12:46pm

Conlons style will cost him to be highlight reel ko'd eventually with his hands so low.

Morrison J · 18-03-2017 12:53pm

walshb wrote: »

No. Is a less than OTT enthusiastic view a crime, or begrudgery? Bit of give and take is all that's needed.

No but there's a difference between taking enjoyment out of an Irish athlete doing well for himself and actively looking for a stick to beat him with i.e implying that Stevenson's debut will be bigger when it 100% won't be.

walshb · 18-03-2017 2:13pm

Decent show by MC. His body work and selection to the body were the positives. As I thought, accuracy and wide shooting, his negatives. As much as a fan of MCs I was when he was an amateur, his connection percentage was always lacking. Katie and Barnes a bit similar. Plenty shots thrown, but a lot of misses and deflections and blocks.

Anyway, far too early to make any kind of future prediction for MC. I'll put the absolute superstar tag on ice for the moment...��

Sweet Science · 18-03-2017 3:23pm

Still feel MC wont be elite as a pro but hope to be proven wrong .

I'm believing the Quigley hype and think he can go to the world level but it would be great if we had the 2 of them on big cards here in the future

walshb · 18-03-2017 4:41pm

Sweet Science wrote: »

Still feel MC wont be elite as a pro but hope to be proven wrong .

I'm the same. If I had to give a yes/no, it would be a no for me. Many variables to consider, one being what is elite today? The sport is so diluted and mixed up that it's lost so much of what I believe elite to be. There are fighters out there today and recently with WC labels that just are not near elite.

Too Tough To Die · 18-03-2017 8:12pm

I think he'll be world class, meaning he'll pick up a couple of world titles, be in the mix, like say Tim Bradley. Top Rank's matchmaking and influence will see to that. I see nothing to suggest he'll be elite, but you very rarely do after one fight.

Henno30 · 18-03-2017 8:42pm

Conlan wasn't great but pro debuts often look like that. He was better than Nevin to be fair.

Anyone mention the suspicion over betting for the fight yet? A flood of money came in for Conlan to win in the 3rd.

https://twitter.com/Fight_Ghost/status/842887833262075904

https://twitter.com/Fight_Ghost/status/842920235472580612

https://twitter.com/Fight_Ghost/status/842921316852228096

https://twitter.com/Box_Bet/status/843180175357628416

Morrison J · 18-03-2017 9:06pm

Replay on RTE 2 now

Morrison J · 18-03-2017 9:11pm

Unless proven that the "fix was in" I don't see any problem with the betting thing. Conlan has said in interviews after that he told everyone round 3 and he did it. Fair play imo. Bookies should be paying it. That's the risk they take with those markets. Only a problem if the boxer backs himself to lose surely.

Plenty of similar stories through the years. Didn't Kiko Martinez team all lump on him to beat Bernard Dunne in round 1?

Guffy · 18-03-2017 9:13pm

Henno30 wrote: »

Conlan wasn't great but pro debuts often look like that. He was better than Nevin to be fair.

Anyone mention the suspicion over betting for the fight yet? A flood of money came in for Conlan to win in the 3rd.

https://twitter.com/Fight_Ghost/status/842887833262075904

https://twitter.com/Fight_Ghost/status/842920235472580612

https://twitter.com/Fight_Ghost/status/842921316852228096

https://twitter.com/Box_Bet/status/843180175357628416

365 settled at 3/1 thanks to the lads here for highlighting. Got on at 1.30am for a nice return

Gamebred · 18-03-2017 9:13pm

You can be sure they wouldnt be holding payment if the fight ended in the 4th or 2nd, there would be nothing said, absolute welchers trying to find a way of not paying, im waiting on payment and 100% sure I'll get it.

Guffy · 18-03-2017 9:15pm

Gamebred wrote: »

You can be sure they wouldnt be holding payment if the fight ended in the 4th or 2nd, there would be nothing said, absolute welchers trying to find a way of not paying, im waiting on payment and 100% sure I'll get it.

Ladbrooks are crooks, duno why people still use them

Noveight · 18-03-2017 9:16pm

Watching this back on RTE2 now, this Ibarra bloke looked like a TY student on work experience.

megadodge · 18-03-2017 9:30pm

Just watched it now and as debuts go it was a decent solid performance. That's all.
It's out of the way now and he can get on with it, improving and adapting his style to the pros.

As Walshb highlighted and it's also something that I have noticed, Michael tends to throw wide back hands from either stance. I'm really not a fan of this type of punch and can't understand why any boxer wouldn't throw that shot straighter - with the odd exception to prevent too much predictability.

As for those who don't like the hype - well are you a boxing fan or not? Cos if you are, how could you not want boxing to be getting lots of publicity? No publicity is bad publicity and when you see a station as reluctant as RTE have proven to be, covering his debut and putting it on a primetime slot, surely this is great news for boxing in Ireland? How could it not be?

Henno30 · 18-03-2017 9:40pm

megadodge wrote: »

Just watched it now and as debuts go it was a decent solid performance. That's all.
It's out of the way now and he can get on with it, improving and adapting his style to the pros.

As Walshb highlighted and it's also something that I have noticed, Michael tends to throw wide back hands from either stance. I'm really not a fan of this type of punch and can't understand why any boxer wouldn't throw that shot straighter - with the odd exception to prevent too much predictability.

You can throw it if you have the timing to land it. Conlan's timing was way out last night.

megadodge · 18-03-2017 9:58pm

Henno30 wrote: »

You can throw it if you have the timing to land it. Conlan's timing was way out last night.

As I said, I don't mind throwing it occasionally, but not with the regularity Michael throws it.

The reasons I don't like it are
1. It takes longer to hit the target ie. shortest distance between two points is a straight line.
2. You need to be closer to throw it, meaning you're further inside the firing line.
3. If you miss with it there tends to be an over-extension and hence the possibility of being off-balance, which is never good.

Actually speaking of wide deliveries, looking at Olympic gold medallist Conceciau here and wow, he really needs work on punch delivery.

walshb · 18-03-2017 10:02pm

I am not sure timing plays any significant part in wide delivered shots. More luck than timing as regards it landing. It's the shorter and crisper shots that require and use timing.

walshb · 18-03-2017 10:25pm

Btw, if any are expecting Conlan to change or really improve don't hold your breath. It doesn't work like that. He's a veteran of the art. His style and overall presence is what it is. His punch delivery and mechanics are what they are. Little tweaks here and there may help, but they may hinder. Changing a style or punch delivery that comes natural to you isn't always a good thing, or an improvement.

He can make it IF he can take a good shot and give a good shot. It really is that simple. He may pick up a few tricks along the way, but don't be expecting some drastic change or improvement. He has the tools, but tools alone won't guarantee getting to the top.

Too Tough To Die · 18-03-2017 10:32pm

walshb wrote: »

Btw, if any are expecting Conlan to change or really improve don't hold your breath. It doesn't work like that. He's a veteran of the art. His style and overall presence is what it is. His punch delivery and mechanics are what they are. Little tweaks here and there may help, but they may hinder. Changing a style or punch delivery that comes natural to you isn't always a good thing, or an improvement.

He can make it IF he can take a good shot and give a good shot. It really is that simple. He may pick up a few tricks along the way, but don't be expecting some drastic change or improvement. He has the tools, but tools alone won't guarantee getting to the top.

Lol, you talk some guff. Don't expect a one fight novice to improve, it doesn't work like that? Okay mate.

walshb · 18-03-2017 10:33pm

Too Tough To Die wrote: »

Lol, you talk some guff. Don't expect a one fight novice to improve, it doesn't work like that? Okay mate.

You're a bit too rough around the edges to get what I mean.

Too Tough To Die · 18-03-2017 10:38pm

walshb wrote: »

You're a bit too rough around the edges to get what I mean.

You said "if any are expecting Conlan to change or really improve don't hold your breath. It doesn't work like that". That's pretty straightforward. Please explain to me how it doesn't work like that, and why we shouldn't expect a one fight novice to improve when i can find you a mountain of evidence to the contrary.

walshb · 18-03-2017 10:41pm

Too Tough To Die wrote: »

You said "if any are expecting Conlan to change or really improve don't hold your breath. It doesn't work like that". That's pretty straightforward. Please explain to me how it doesn't work like that, and why we shouldn't expect a one fight novice to improve when i can find you a mountain of evidence to the contrary.

Whatever I said was lost on you...

begbysback · 19-03-2017 12:52am

Noveight wrote: »

Watching this back on RTE2 now, this Ibarra bloke looked like a TY student on work experience.

To be fair though I'm sure he was thinking "what the fcuk, am I fighting Mc Gregor, Conlon, or both" thats not even mentioning the leprechaun costumes!!

walshb · 20-03-2017 4:43pm

pac_man wrote: »

There's plenty of successful fighters that have that long looping punching style, Danny Garcia spring ls to mind of someone in which that punch would be effective with good timing.

The thing is that Danny has very good power and a good solid chin.

The point I was making that there will be little tweaks here and there, but nobody should be expecting any real changes with Conlan. His punch delivery and mechanics are part of him. That's his style. He has the moves and the mechanics in place. His big question is can he hurt quality opposition, and can he take their punches. If I had to lay a bet I would think not. Why? Just a feeling/hunch. Something missing as regards real strength of body and chin for me. I was the same with Bernard Dunne. Conlan's D seems a little suspect for me.

Compare those two to Frampton. Something solid and sturdy about Frampton. Power, chin, and all the rest.

Question: Is MC clearly a better prospect than JJN? I kind of see them similarly. Not style wise, but just similar as regards their pro potential.

begbysback · 20-03-2017 5:57pm

walshb wrote: »

Btw, if any are expecting Conlan to change or really improve don't hold your breath. It doesn't work like that. He's a veteran of the art. His style and overall presence is what it is. His punch delivery and mechanics are what they are. Little tweaks here and there may help, but they may hinder. Changing a style or punch delivery that comes natural to you isn't always a good thing, or an improvement.

He can make it IF he can take a good shot and give a good shot. It really is that simple. He may pick up a few tricks along the way, but don't be expecting some drastic change or improvement. He has the tools, but tools alone won't guarantee getting to the top.

Quite true though I don't think we seen what he really had the other night because he toyed with him for 2 rounds and went for it, somewhat sloppily in the third - what he will get though is wiser - not sure if it's his youthful face but to me he looked like a kid in the ring the other night - most likely to be another 3 maybe even 4 yrs before a world title fight - by then he should be a man - excellent prospect though and I do hope it starts being about the boxing soon, and the circus is dropped

brevity · 20-03-2017 6:07pm

This is an interesting read...

http//www.theguardian.com/sport/the-balls-of-wrath/2017/mar/20/michael-conlan-profesional-debut-boxing-conor-mcgregor-new-york

It's by Paul Gibson for The Balls of Wrath - a boxing blog (http://theballsofwrath.com/)

walshb · 20-03-2017 6:15pm

begbysback wrote: »

Quite true though I don't think we seen what he really had the other night because he toyed with him for 2 rounds and went for it, somewhat sloppily in the third - what he will get though is wiser - not sure if it's his youthful face but to me he looked like a kid in the ring the other night - most likely to be another 3 maybe even 4 yrs before a world title fight - by then he should be a man - excellent prospect though and I do hope it starts being about the boxing soon, and the circus is dropped

3-4 years is far too long for MC. Think about it? Can he really be 122 lbs aged 29 or so? He wants to win belts in 3 weight divisions. Needs to be at the top at 122 within 12-18 months IMO. If no then he may find that weight a real strain. Or does he bypass 122 within 18 months and go to 126? Bigger men and stronger men. 130.....another huge step. Anyway, a real WIP at the moment.

begbysback · 20-03-2017 6:54pm

walshb wrote: »

3-4 years is far too long for MC. Think about it? Can he really be 122 lbs aged 29 or so? He wants to win belts in 3 weight divisions. Needs to be at the top at 122 within 12-18 months IMO. If no then he may find that weight a real strain. Or does he bypass 122 within 18 months and go to 126? Bigger men and stronger men. 130.....another huge step. Anyway, a real WIP at the moment.

3 weight divisions - I admire his optimism but let's get one belt first!!

I reckon he needs min 15 fights before a title shot, let's say 5 fights per year, all going well with no injuries and not getting caught with a lucky punch, that's 3 years min

If he gets thrown in earlier the it's likely he will get beaten by a worse fighter who has more experience than him - I don't see how the timeframe can be shortened

Blanco100 · 20-03-2017 7:09pm

walshb wrote: »

The thing is that Danny has very good power and a good solid chin.

The point I was making that there will be little tweaks here and there, but nobody should be expecting any real changes with Conlan. His punch delivery and mechanics are part of him. That's his style. He has the moves and the mechanics in place. His big question is can he hurt quality opposition, and can he take their punches. If I had to lay a bet I would think not. Why? Just a feeling/hunch. Something missing as regards real strength of body and chin for me. I was the same with Bernard Dunne. Conlan's D seems a little suspect for me.

Compare those two to Frampton. Something solid and sturdy about Frampton. Power, chin, and all the rest.

Question: Is MC clearly a better prospect than JJN? I kind of see them similarly. Not style wise, but just similar as regards their pro potential.

If the playing field and opportunities were equal then I think it would be pretty even in terms of prospects.

One thing in Conlans favour against JJN is that he will squeeze every last drop out of his talent, whatever level it takes him to (thats up for debate). It won't be for the lack of effort and work.

We cannot say the same about Nevin unfortunately.

A Little Pony · 21-03-2017 12:07am

First good shot on this guys chin and he will go asleep. Hype job.

walshb · 21-03-2017 8:40pm

A Little Pony wrote: »

First good shot on this guys chin and he will go asleep. Hype job.

Brave post considering alternative views on MC and his potential pro success will see some here slate you.

I don't disagree with your post. It is all just hype at this moment in time. In my view completely unjustified hype, and the type of hype that actually weakens the credibility of the sport. People saying that we should be happy the sport is getting publicity seems off to me. As a fan of the sport I see it as not positive publicity. It lacks any semblance of substance, and surely true boxing fans can see it as nothing but circus type hype. Even casual and non fans may see it.

Blanco100 · 21-03-2017 8:47pm

walshb wrote: »

Brave post considering alternative views on MC and his potential pro success will see some here slate you.

I don't disagree with your post. It is all just hype at this moment in time. In my view completely unjustified hype, and the type of hype that actually weakens the credibility of the sport. People saying that we should be happy the sport is getting publicity seems off to me. As a fan of the sport I see it as not positive publicity. It lacks any semblance of substance, and surely true boxing fans can see it as nothing but circus type hype. Even casual and non fans may see it.

Agreed. And if it does turn out that hes not up to much then people who gave boxing a momentary glance on the back of this hype will be saying "Ah sure isn't boxing a joke anyway"

Its no different to the fanfare around Anthony Joshua in the UK (albeit hes further along), selling out Wembley stadium with people who haven't got a bulls notion about the sport, but ala Jamie Redknapp and the soccer am crew they love the "big man".

Michael Conlan Pro Debut

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