Derek Chauvin murder trial (George Floyd)

Andy body know what will happen if there is a hung jury, presume miss trial.

I have a feeling either the jury will be very quick, less then a day. or go on for days/weeks with possible dead lock.

penny piper wrote: »

hmm isn't there the possibility the defense team could point to any of these.

First of all, thanks for the reply. I appreciate that genuine discussion is the point of the thread. And that's lost some of the time.

1. There was no injuries to mr.floyd's neck.Surely, the defense could use that
as proof there were no excessive force used to restrain Mr.Floyd? you could
use that this was not the primary contributor to his death.

I don't think so. Strangling somebody doesn't leave a bruise or a mark.
Doesn't even take much force. I've seen 50kg girls strangle 100+kg guys, easily.

2. The claim that Mr.Chauvan had a duty to render aid to Mr.Floyd, you could
argue that as he was not alone and other officers present he was not alone
in having that responsibility. He was also only assisting in that arrest.
He was not the arresting officer.

It's not a claim. It's a fact, reinforced by US supreme count law. That can't be argued in this case.
And the other officers also had a responsibility. And some of them have also been charged. None of their liability can indemnify Chauvin

3. Mr.Chauvan was not aware of Mr.Floyd's medical condition or of the drugs
he had been taking. It would be very hard to say what he might have done in such a case other than to wait for an ambulance which they were doing.

Whether he was aware or not. Police policy requires him to follow certain actions incase the knee restraint leads to health issues. He didn't do that policy.
He knew his colleagues called for medical assistance for Floyd, but he continued to kneel on his neck.
Medics got there and even there he didn't get up.

He had ample opportunity to consider Floyds health. He didn't.

penny piper wrote: »

A question back to you.....why do you think Dr.Fowler shouldn't be held in any less regard than any of the other experts???

The reason why is really simple.
He was paid to be a expert witness. To come up with an alternate theory. He had 6 months to prep. And he lands in with a theory about carbon monoxide poisoning...from an electric engine.
That's alone shatters any facade of expertise. He's either an imbecile, or simply forced to go with an ridiculous argument due to the lack of a credible one.
Neither paints him very well.

silverharp wrote: »

no but they are trying to show things like deliberate use of excessive force or "evincing a depraved mind". How would you get 12 American's to even understand that term , let alone all agree one way. The case depends on mind reading

Showing that Chauvin's actions were outside of standard operating procedure & training, how dangerous his actions were, how he kept doing it even after Floyd stopped resisting and passed out/died, how he ignored even the other officers saying they should put him in another position, how he didn't check on Floyd's welfare at all.

You obviously can't read someone's mind, but you can use their actions as a signifier of their intent/mentality. I don't think it's too hard for the prosecutors to show that Chauvin displayed a blatant disregard for Floyd's health and safety. I don't know if they've pushed it as much that it'll warrant one of the murder charges though.

MeMen2_MoRi_ wrote: »

"Do you still think there is reasonable doubt or have you changed your mind again?"

The above has never been my position, from hearing the testimonies has only reinforced my position that chauvin played a big role in the death of George.. I'm not sure how you've come to the conclusion that "I'm changing my mind again" it hasn't from the first time seeing the widely seen 10 min video.

I see ... I actually thought you were from some of your previous posts...woops my mistake.....

So what would you charge him with?

MeMen2_MoRi_ wrote: »

You'd make a poor juror, you've questioned their intelligence without knowing them.

I'm okay with the charges laid against him. I'm hopeful he's found guilty on 2 of them.

What might those two charges be?? and do you think he will go to jail for life?

btw how do you know members of the jury??

MeMen2_MoRi_ wrote: »

Manslaughter and murder 3, I think he should be found guilty on the murder 3.. think the bar for murder 2 might be high. Imo, he should see a long long stretch behind bars, like I've spoken about, he was on top of a person who went unconscious and died yet he stay in position.. it's a hard thing to watch.

I haven't spoken of the jury, you have!! You've questioned their intelligence about listening to expert testimony "they may not understand" yet you have put forward yourself being able to understand the same testimony while not being able to grasp my posts..

It's a bad case of let me pull the trigger on this machine gun of sh!t and hopefully something sticks to excuse chauvins actions on the day.

You just said about something I said "without knowing the jury" that looks like you are saying you know the jury ....that's why I asked how do you know the jury?

If you had been chauvan that day what would you have done? I also think comparing chauvan's knee to george floyd's shoulder/neck his knee was the size of a sparrow...it looks so small on floyd....so were they able to measure/force/weight he was putting on floyd's neck/shoulder's at times.?
Did Dr.Tobin say he only looked at the first 5 mins in his study...and that chauvan was on/off the knee/shoulder 50% on 50% off so does that mean chauvan was only on his neck/shoulder for 2.5 mins? I'm unsure..what do you think?

penny piper wrote: »

You just said about something I said "without knowing the jury" that looks like you are saying you know the jury ....that's why I asked how do you know the jury?

If you had been chauvan that day what would you have done? I also think comparing chauvan's knee to george floyd's shoulder/neck his knee was the size of a sparrow...it looks so small on floyd....so were they able to measure/force/weight he was putting on floyd's neck/shoulder's at times.?
Did Dr.Tobin say he only looked at the first 5 mins in his study...and that chauvan was on/off the knee/shoulder 50% on 50% off so does that mean chauvan was only on his neck/shoulder for 2.5 mins? I'm unsure..what do you think?

I know as much about the jury as you do, I'm not questioning their intelligence.. you have as an excuse for chauvin.

Tobin said he looked at a total of 5 mins something of video evidence, that was the total time he could see chauvin on top and the knee on George.. the only time the knee seems to be off George's neck is when the paramedic comes on scene.. what the defence out forward was that the body weight of chauvin was moving between the knee on the neck and the knee on the body. And showing the knee was off the neck when the paramedic looks to take a pulse.

BattleCorp wrote: »

Cards on table time.

I'm still not 100% certain that Chauvin will be convicted of anything.

I'm probably 75% leaning towards he'll be convicted with maybe a 25% chance of acquittal.

I think there's no doubt he will be convicted ...did you see the protests outside the courthouse.?..where Maxine Walters was outside telling protestors to be more confrontational and that if chauvan isn't found guilty they won't leave...she also incited the protestor's to break the curfew...absolutely terrible..
Then it showed pictures of some group called the New Black Panthers guys with guns...


I think he will be 95% convicted with an extremely long sentence.

tayto lover wrote: »

So a mob becomes the real Judge and Jury?

Ofcourse, you disagree?

MeMen2_MoRi_ wrote: »

Near certain that Tobin did calculations based off of chauvins weight, this was disputed by Fowler in his testimony, have you forgotten the testimony already!

I've no reason to agree with chauvin and what he said, his actions goes against policy and it goes against his legal duty that a person in his custody their well being is in his hands and he is duty bound to look after.

You are very hung up on Tobin's testimony. It's funny that a defence lawyer can be so poor around the medical stuff yet still convince someone who was giving the "benefit of the doubt" to the guy accused of playing apart in the death of a man.

No, I haven't forgotton tobin's testimony...he didn't do calculations based on chauvan's weight because he didn't have his weight and nelson asked him that..have you forgotten the testimony already?

But I was also listening to the prosecution witnesses as well...

You should well know in the minneapolis police what they say is policy and how their officers carry out their policies are two different things.

I think it's all well/good saying how/people should react in circumstances but unless you are in that circumstance and you are normal you will do whatever you think is best.

I did think Eric Nelson was not able to question (or not prepared) Dr.Tobin and the lack of defense witnesses Chauvan had clearly let him down.

To add, Fowler under cross from the prosecution said he didn't add in the weight of chauvins belt, I believe Tobin also said the same. There was even more weight to be applied in the calculation of force being applied

penny piper wrote: »

He didn't know his weight....check it.
...I forgot who asked fowler what chauvan's weight was and it was him who knew the weight of 140 pounds but he didn't know the added weight of the belt thing what they have round their waist..

yes I saw the still when he had his boot off the ground and then again on the ground. didn't they even dispute where his foot was on his leg...his shin?

A defence witness knew chauvins weight? You know that the defence and prosecution share information.

If you're trying to tell me that Tobin used fairy dust in his calculations for the weight and force being applied, I ain't believing you.

MeMen2_MoRi_ wrote: »

A defence witness knew chauvins weight? You know that the defence and prosecution share information.

If you're trying to tell me that Tobin used fairy dust in his calculations for the weight and force being applied, I ain't believing you.

Well i don't know about "fairy dust" but he did it in a general manner...well believe me or not.

Another thing I saw no wonder there was such a shortage of defense witnesses in this case.....Did you see how the guy I think ..hmm not sure maybe he was the use of force expert for the defense .....his house was smeared in animal blood and a pig's head stuck on the front steps to it...several guys dressed in black were seen at the house at the time.

I think all the witnesses in this case should been only on audio not shown in
person....Did you know the prosecution actually wanted the witnesses protected just like the jury/minors.....

penny piper wrote: »

Well i don't know about "fairy dust" but he did it in a general manner...well believe me or not.

Another thing I saw no wonder there was such a shortage of defense witnesses in this case.....Did you see how the guy I think ..hmm not sure maybe he was the use of force expert for the defense .....his house was smeared in animal blood and a pig's head stuck on the front steps to it...several guys dressed in black were seen at the house at the time.

I think all the witnesses in this case should been only on audio not shown in
person....Did you know the prosecution actually wanted the witnesses protected just like the jury/minors.....

His testimony was anything but in a general manner, I'll go with he used the same weight that Fowler used.

"Former home" he doesn't live at the address.

That isn't the reason for lack of defence witnesses, it's the lack of defence that chauvin has. Defence wouldn't of got a cardiologist to testify that George's heart condition killed him, just sought to create reasonable doubt that it did with other witnesses. Did a sh!t job of it like you said, he was poor with the medical stuff. That lays soley with him if he didn't prepare himself for cross examination of the states witnesses.

MeMen2_MoRi_ wrote: »

His testimony was anything but in a general manner, I'll go with he used the same weight that Fowler used.

"Former home" he doesn't live at the address.

That isn't the reason for lack of defence witnesses, it's the lack of defence that chauvin has. Defence wouldn't of got a cardiologist to testify that George's heart condition killed him, just sought to create reasonable doubt that it did with other witnesses. Did a sh!t job of it like you said, he was poor with the medical stuff. That lays soley with him if he didn't prepare himself for cross examination of the states witnesses.

I'll go with what I heard. I don't know whether you know or not but sometimes you are repeating what I posted in other posts fyi.:)
yes i agree it was his former home the police said they thought the criminals who did it made a mistake still thinking it was his home.
I'm sure the defense could have got a cardiologist to testify that floyd's heart was a contributory factor in his death..(it was)...but do you really think any cardiologist would want to actually testify considering what could happen if you were a witness for the defense?????