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Anyone in Ireland that can speak Irish only?

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    #32
    Greta_Funberg
    Registered Users Posts: 18 ✭Greta_Funberg


    There's a doc following the Galway Gaelic team in 1998 on their Summer before winning the All Ireland. On coming back home, they stop off with Sam in some small houses in Conamara and some of the people there had no Irish.

    I must dig that one out again. Sure it's on Youtube.


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    #33
    Ficheall
    Registered Users Posts: 9,020 ✭✭✭Ficheall


    I studied maths through Irish (probably not a great idea, but that's beside the point) in first year of uni. The lecturer (lovely guy, passed away couple of years after) was Greek, and had come to Ireland initially having learned Irish, so had to learn English when he got here.


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    #34
    hullaballoo
    Administrators, Entertainment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 18,712 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭hullaballoo


    JohnnyFlash wrote: »
    I'm from the Connemara Gaeltacht, and would have grown up knowing monolingual Irish speakers. They had started to die off by the early 90's. My own father was able to speak English, but simply chose not to do so. He didn't say much in Irish either to be honest, being a famously taciturn man.

    One of the best things about speaking Irish with fellow native speakers is being able to relax, have the banter, and converse in my native tongue without having the conversation dominated by the topic of the language itself, or how this beautiful language gets mixed up with the awful type of small-minded nationalism you tend to find with the Neo Gaeilgeoir types. Think beard, glasses, leather patches on their corduroy jacket, corduroy pants; no sense of humour, a fetish for Pearse, and the personality of a fúcking rock.

    I do like the pop-up Gaeltacht events, but they were always in danger of being overran by the zealots mentioned above who wanted to dish out a dose of boring nationalism using their UCD/Stillorgan Dual Carriageway Irish. Those lads would bore the tits off you. Flann O'Brien was a great man for making fun of their sort.

    What's also annoying is having to explain the "usefulness" of Irish to naive, narrow-minded, monolingual bootlickers. You don't find me asking them banal questions about how useful their love of Japanese cartoons and computer games is.

    I do miss the idea and the reality of Irish monolingualism. More for what it stood for, rather that what it meant to me as a young man.

    I find this point of view interesting as it's a form of prejudice I will have to deal with in the near future that I wasn't aware of. Thanks for the insight into the rationale behind it.

    I am a non-native Irish speaker and I learned my Irish on the Aran Islands as well as being lucky enough to have two very good Irish teachers - one in NS and one in Secondary.

    Like you I also despise the nationalist undertones associated with the language and politicisation of it. I don't wear tweed or leather but I take it this is not the only marker in your mind of the kind of Irish speaker we both dislike.

    I do speak Stillorgan Dual Carriageway Irish. At least I presume I do or that I would be pigeonholed by a native speaker as such. I also have a beard like most men. This would raise a flag for you clearly and you would presume I am one of the Padraig Pearse fantasists. The reality is I know near nothing about Pearse or any of the other rebels. I just don't really care.

    My children will be going to a new Gaelscoil starting in the next couple of weeks and I gather some of the other parents, the teachers and the patrons of the school are native speakers. Could be wrong about that but if they are, I will on the basis of your above post ensure they know I am not a Shinner.

    The conundrum will be if they are non-native speakers where it might suit me to let them believe I am a Shinner but I'll cross that bridge when I come to it.


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    #35
    flazio
    Registered Users Posts: 12,849 ✭✭✭✭flazio


    It can and does happen that a Gaeltacht resident develops Alzheimer's and start to forget his or her English.


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    #36
    Edgware
    Registered Users Posts: 5,875 ✭✭✭Edgware


    AdrianBalboa wrote: »
    Issues I have with Irish is its use of religious terminology in their greetings, and the genderized surnames.

    My children go to a Gaelscoil and I told them to use “hello” instead of Dia Dhuit and to use whichever version of their surname they are more comfortable with instead of following the outdated Ó/Ní format for boys and girls respectively.

    I also told them to just ignore whatever their teacher says about the “rules” and pronunciation and all that rubbish and just talk to each other. They’re never going to learn how to speak if they’re learning grammar![/quote




    Why bother sending them to a Gaelscoil at all unless you are one of the snobs who use it
    so that you can avoid the kids mixing with the "wrong "type/colour
    If you are so intelligent you would realise that English has as many religion linked phrases as Irish


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    #37
    Ipso
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,995 ✭✭✭Ipso


    AdrianBalboa wrote: »
    “Ní” means “no” which stigmatises girls.

    Well played.


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    #38
    EmmetSpiceland
    Registered Users Posts: 10,559 ✭✭✭✭EmmetSpiceland


    hullaballoo wrote: »
    The conundrum will be if they are non-native speakers where it might suit me to let them believe I am a Shinner but I'll cross that bridge when I come to it.

    The Gaelscoileanna, in Dublin anyway, are mostly not populated with the kids of shinners. It’s just a way for people to keep their kids with “their own”, away from any people of colour or those with special needs.

    Of course, they’ll mask this by saying they want their child to have an “advantage” when it comes to the leaving cert but that’s just window dressing.

    Obviously, we gave them some thought regarding our kids but my partner has fluent Irish and I do ok so ours go to an Educate Together School that is more aligned with our own “values”. We speak to the kids in Irish at home to help them along.

    “It is not blood that makes you Irish but a willingness to be part of the Irish nation” - Thomas Davis



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    #39
    hullaballoo
    Administrators, Entertainment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 18,712 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭hullaballoo


    Edgware wrote: »
    Why bother sending them to a Gaelscoil at all unless you are one of the snobs who use it
    so that you can avoid the kids mixing with the "wrong "type/colour
    If you are so intelligent you would realise that English has as many religion linked phrases as Irish

    A lot of Gaelscoileanna have people from all kind of backgrounds. There will be a Piotr both of whose parents are Polish in my 5-year-olds class.

    Admittedly, the Gaelscoil has been exclusionary for various reasons including a dictat from many that the students have to be fluent by 2 and a half. Then there's the fact that they were predominantly heavily religious (RCC) until probably quite recently.

    But the one that my son is going to soon is co-educational and multi-denominational like the NS I went to. There is also no requirement for the kids to speak Irish prior to attending the particular school. Thankfully there are more and more of these in being, though not in huge numbers it has to be said.


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    #40
    hullaballoo
    Administrators, Entertainment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 18,712 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭hullaballoo


    EmmetSpiceland wrote: »
    The Gaelscoileanna, in Dublin anyway, are mostly not populated with the kids of shinners. It’s just a way for people to keep their kids with “their own”, away from any people of colour or those with special needs.

    Of course, they’ll mask this by saying they want their child to have an “advantage” when it comes to the leaving cert but that’s just window dressing.

    Obviously, we gave them some thought regarding our kids but my partner has fluent Irish and I do ok so ours go to an Educate Together School that is more aligned with our own “values”. We speak to the kids in Irish at home to help them along.

    I think you're mostly right but as I said in my post above, there are now Gaelscoileanna with a much more rounded and less small-minded shinner or racist ethos.

    I went to an Educate Together too and yes, I think the ethos is great and we would have liked to have sent our children to one but they are all oversubscribed. Even the one in that shithole, Bray (the one I went to.)

    The co-educational non-religious (multi-/inter-denominational) ones are, hopefully, a bit different.

    I will be on the Board of Management of my kids' one so certainly will be keeping a keen eye on that.


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    #41
    riclad
    Registered Users Posts: 8,184 ✭✭✭riclad


    Whats the point in learning maths in irish, we all speak english,
    its seems pointless.
    i don,t think irish is a modern language in that it takes english word and changes them slightly,
    imagine trying to learn computer programming in irish .
    unless you are a teacher or work for tg4 it has no practical use after you
    leave school.
    I Think all independent schools are over subscribed since its a status symbol
    to go to a non government school ,like driving a bmw car.
    teens spend alot of time on social media tik tok ,etc on english language websites or apps .
    Theres zero chance of most people speaking irish in everyday life outside schools .
    I think the irish language was more popular in the 70,s or the 80,s
    before the internet was invented .
    And no one had smartphones .


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    #42
    Metric Tensor
    Registered Users Posts: 3,724 ✭✭✭Metric Tensor


    Ficheall wrote: »
    I studied maths through Irish (probably not a great idea, but that's beside the point) in first year of uni. The lecturer (lovely guy, passed away couple of years after) was Greek, and had come to Ireland initially having learned Irish, so had to learn English when he got here.

    Can only be Tony Christophides - a really nice guy!


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    #43
    Galwayguy35
    Registered Users Posts: 16,316 ✭✭✭✭Galwayguy35


    How did we lose the ability to speak our own language in the first place, the Brits invaded half the world but the native population kept their own language.

    We didn't which is a mystery, how can you stop a people speaking their own language?


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    #44
    Spanish Eyes
    Registered Users Posts: 15,899 ✭✭✭✭Spanish Eyes


    It is really such a pity that Irish is not revered, and it never will be now apart from pockets here and there who are/have to be bilingual anyway.

    The Gaelscoilleanna are just a means of keeping out the riff raff, end of. Doubt those who go there will speak Irish when out and about either.

    And there is always the bonus for exams through Irish also.

    Am very sceptical.

    I love Irish, and can follow a lot of it on TG4 but often wonder why I bother.


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    #45
    Dr Turk Turkelton
    Registered Users Posts: 2,906 ✭✭✭Dr Turk Turkelton


    Galwayguy35 wrote: »
    How did we lose the ability to speak our own language in the first place, the Brits invaded half the world but the native population kept their own language.

    We didn't which is a mystery, how can you stop a people speaking their own language?

    Two words answer your question.

    modh coinníollach


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    #46
    Gretas Gonna Get Ya!
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,245 ✭✭✭Gretas Gonna Get Ya!


    Miri5 wrote: »
    I was born and bred in the Connemara Gaeltacht. I know loads of children who have Irish as their first language and learn English when they start playschool/ primary. Nothing wrong with that, and most definitely nothing like an American cult. They are bilingual and often as not find other languages easier to pick up.

    Yes, but English is their first language...

    They may have learned Irish first, but English is essential on this island. I can get by just fine anywhere on this island with zero Irish (including Connemara) - but with zero English? No chance!


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    #47
    Duffy the Vampire Slayer
    Registered Users Posts: 5,378 ✭✭✭Duffy the Vampire Slayer


    Gretas Gonna Get Ya! wrote: »
    Yes, but English is their first language...

    They may have learned Irish first, but English is essential on this island. I can get by just fine anywhere on this island with zero Irish (including Connemara) - but with zero English? No chance!

    If they learned Irish first, and speak it with their family, then it is their first language. I'm not sure what way you would define first language.


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    #48
    Duffy the Vampire Slayer
    Registered Users Posts: 5,378 ✭✭✭Duffy the Vampire Slayer


    Dr Turk Turkelton wrote: »
    Two words answer your question.

    modh coinníollach

    English also has a conditional tense, as do all languages I am familiar with.


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    #49
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 6,192 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Duffy the Vampire Slayer wrote: »
    English also has a conditional tense, as do languages I am familiar with.

    Its the essential.problem with teaching irish....too.much put into learning spelling/reading it,bogged down in tenses/verbs

    When it was a main language,vast swades of population couldnt read or write it....its made to be spoken (and spoke quickly,hence why many forgieners struggle with irish language)


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    #50
    KK4SAM
    Registered Users Posts: 735 ✭✭✭KK4SAM


    Sea


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    #51
    Spanish Eyes
    Registered Users Posts: 15,899 ✭✭✭✭Spanish Eyes


    Ta shey Mahogany Gaspipes,


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    #52
    Greyfox
    Registered Users Posts: 3,726 ✭✭✭Greyfox


    Galwayguy35 wrote: »
    how can you stop a people speaking their own language?

    Just create an environment where Irish seems like a waste of time. I was 32 the first time I seen someone using Irish and having fun, this was the first time I considered Irish as my language.


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    #53
    Gretas Gonna Get Ya!
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,245 ✭✭✭Gretas Gonna Get Ya!


    Duffy the Vampire Slayer wrote: »
    If they learned Irish first, and speak it with their family, then it is their first language. I'm no sure what way you would define first language.

    I could invent my own private language, and use it to speak with just my family members or closest friends... still doesn't make it your first language on this island as English is the only language spoken fluently by everyone.

    English is by far the most important language to learn and understand if you want to live in this country, so on that basis it is your first language.

    I've been all over this fine country of ours... I don't speak a lick of Irish, and it's never presented me even the slightest of problem communicating with anyone. That is my definition for how important a language is in practical terms. Do you actually NEED Irish on this Island? The answer is a simple NO!

    In the face of this stark reality, most Irish speakers or enthusiasts are left with far less compelling arguments for promoting the language. There's a lot of talk about it's "cultural" significance... etc

    But I've always found these arguments a bit hollow and also insulting to people's intelligence tbh... If spoken Irish died off tomorrow, we would still have a very rich history and vibrant culture. To suggest otherwise is rather ludicrous... the vast majority of this country does not speak Irish, and yet we have no problem promoting our great history and culture to the world.

    People who think our culture, or a large part of it, hangs on the survival of our dying native tongue... are really quite naive and deluded. But not just that, there is also an inherent arrogance among many of these people too. Those few "elite" who speak it fluently, like to believe that it has greater significance than it actually does...

    Irish is not vital... either in the practical day-to-day sense, or in any wider cultural context either. This is just something you tell yourselves, so you can feel better. And make others feel less Irish, because they don't speak it.

    If people want to keep it alive, good luck to you guys... but it's fringe language. And I feel perfectly Irish without having any desire to speak it.


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    #54
    Insect Overlord
    Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 30,858 Mod ✭✭✭✭Insect Overlord


    Galwayguy35 wrote: »
    How did we lose the ability to speak our own language in the first place, the Brits invaded half the world but the native population kept their own language.

    We didn't which is a mystery, how can you stop a people speaking their own language?

    They literally wiped out swathes of indigenous populations in North America, Australia and New Zealand. :confused:


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    #55
    Upforthematch
    Registered Users Posts: 1,328 ✭✭✭Upforthematch


    Galwayguy35 wrote: »
    How did we lose the ability to speak our own language in the first place, the Brits invaded half the world but the native population kept their own language.

    We didn't which is a mystery, how can you stop a people speaking their own language?

    Incentive. English was the language of progress in the 1800's. Having the main city and institutions of the church & state operating through English was also a big part of it. And mass emigration to english speaking countries was the deathnail. It only takes two generations to change the tide it turns out.


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    #56
    whisky_galore
    Registered Users Posts: 15,808 ✭✭✭✭whisky_galore


    Galwayguy35 wrote: »
    How did we lose the ability to speak our own language in the first place, the Brits invaded half the world but the native population kept their own language.

    We didn't which is a mystery, how can you stop a people speaking their own language?

    We're not that bothered.

    I think of language as a tool like a hammer or a corkscrew. If it's something I no longer have a use for, why bother hanging on to it?
    I have no emotional attachment to it, I couldn't care less whether people spoke it or not, they're free to speak whatever they like. Languages became extinct before and no one died on account of it.


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    #57
    khalessi
    Registered Users Posts: 6,215 ✭✭✭khalessi


    I'm someone who always loved Irish but had crap teachers, bar one and he was fluent and he did all he could to help me become fluent. When I wanted to try honours Irish after a pass Inter he got me into the honours class. When the teacher teaching that class got me kicked out, himself and his wife gave me grinds. I stayed with pass Irish for the leaving so he could teach me as he truly loved the language and made it fun.

    When I decided to become a teacher I went to as many Irish social nights I could find and did loads of courses and spent loads of time in Donegal and Connemara.

    One thing I decided to do when learning, was to spend a day in Dublin speaking Irish in shops cafes etc. It was great fun as people did a double take and then replied to me in hesitant Irish. Everyone I spoke to, answered me in Irish, it was a lovely surprise as the only other place I have heard Irish used naturally was around Galway city. I came across an African taxi driver who actually started talking in Irish to me and he told me his kids went to a gaelscoil.

    There are something like 4 million people learning Irish around the world, amazing! My kids go to a gaelscoil and there are loads of children from other countries. One of my kids needs learning support and they aren't the only kids with special needs in the school, so whoever said that people send their kids to gaelscoils to avoid foreigners and special needs were talking out their posterior. The classes in junior infants also had 32 children so it wasnt for smaller classes either. I love the fact my kids are fluent and can chat away in Irish and it will make it easier for them in secondary to learn another language.


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    #58
    ancapailldorcha
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 37,391 CMod ✭✭✭✭ancapailldorcha


    Galwayguy35 wrote: »
    How did we lose the ability to speak our own language in the first place, the Brits invaded half the world but the native population kept their own language.

    We didn't which is a mystery, how can you stop a people speaking their own language?

    The mystery to me is how, after a century of self-rule, no Irish government has ever tried to actually bring it back beyond the Gaeltacht areas.

    We sat again for an hour and a half discussing maps and figures and always getting back to that most damnable creation of the perverted ingenuity of man - the County of Tyrone.

    H. H. Asquith



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    #59
    byhookorbycrook
    Moderators, Education Moderators, Regional South East Moderators Posts: 12,481 Mod ✭✭✭✭byhookorbycrook


    My godchildren in West Kerry and Connemara under the age of 5 only speak Irish. Sadly , they acquired English when they hit school going age .


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    #60
    hullaballoo
    Administrators, Entertainment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 18,712 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭hullaballoo


    Galwayguy35 wrote: »
    How did we lose the ability to speak our own language in the first place, the Brits invaded half the world but the native population kept their own language.

    We didn't which is a mystery, how can you stop a people speaking their own language?

    The English put an awful lot more effort into extinguishing the Irish language because of the levels of resistance to their invasion. The Penal Laws targeted all things Irish and that's why only pockets of native speakers still exist. Contrasts well with Wales who were less resistant and therefore have a greater native Welsh speaking population, though still low.


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    #61
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 6,192 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    hullaballoo wrote: »
    The English put an awful lot more effort into extinguishing the Irish language because of the levels of resistance to their invasion. The Penal Laws targeted all things Irish and that's why only pockets of native speakers still exist. Contrasts well with Wales who were less resistant and therefore have a greater native Welsh speaking population, though still low.

    If iceland can have a modern functioning econmy and a native language,no reason,we cant


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